Is Corruption in Corporate HR Unavoidable? A Frustrated Employee's Perspective on Bribery and Ethics

Dear All,
The ongoing debate and movement against corruption in the country have once again brought to focus the rampant corruption in corporate India in general and my concern in specific: Corporate HR.

Not that everyone in corporate HR is corrupt, but it is only once you are in a position to take a bribe or commission that you are actually tested. Not many get this "chance" apart from those, of course, who are dealing with recruitment and training consultants and are involved in outsourcing HR-related services from vendors.

Mr. Anna Hazare talks about Lokpal and Baba Ramdev talks about black money, but I feel the malice has seeped much deeper into us Indians. It has become part of our character to accept bribing as a part of life, a "normal" way of doing things.

The Need for HR Integrity
The HR Managers who claim to "Develop Human Resources" need to develop themselves first (from greedy wolves on the lookout for their next commission) before trying to "Develop" human resources in this country.

We need to expose such HR Managers and bring them to book. They should realize that if caught taking a commission, they would be barred forever from working in Corporate India.

I know my language is acerbic, but please bear with a frustrated common man fed up with trying to earn an honest living with the additional burden of waving off the vultures circling overhead and the wolves hiding in the bushes ready to pounce on my loaf of bread.

Expected Reactions
Now having said that, I am expecting either of the following:

1. Complete silence from the HR Community (A cat never puts a bell around its neck!)
2. Angry questions about my own ethical practices (Killing the messenger / The whistleblower / Conscious stirrer!)

Good HR Associates

Corruption: A Global Epidemic

Corruption has spread its roots throughout the globe in underdeveloped, developing, and developed nations. Common people are most affected, and when we get a chance, we do the same. It's now a blaming game, throwing mud on one another.

The Situation in India

India is a land of followers, and our leaders sacrifice us for self-benefit. The revolution day will come between the haves and have-nots. Hope for the best and do your part with honesty.

Regards

From what I gather from your query, perhaps you are a Placement Guy frustrated with the commission paid to HR-Sena in various companies for closing positions. I understand your frustration, as the practice of paying a 15%-20% commission for closing positions with intentionally higher CTC is rampant in the industry, especially in big-name companies. I've also observed HR Managers who seem unaware of their actions, yet end up recruiting the wrong people for the wrong positions at the 'Right Price.' It's ironic that the same public supports figures like Anna Hazare or Ramdev for anti-corruption, yet, given the opportunity to receive a bribe, many of us Indians might take it. As you mentioned, it's deeply ingrained in our culture, something the 'Learned Souls' call the "Live and Let Live Culture." It's not only HR; in any field, Indians have a knack for extracting an extra penny somehow. The 'Bakshish-Culture' introduced by the British during the pre-independence period seems to persist in our country.

But in hindsight, consider the following well-known facts to even just-born Indians:

1. How many of us wouldn't bribe the police to get a passport clearance done?
2. How many would not jump the queue to catch a bus/vehicle at the earliest?
3. How many would not give an extra Rs 10-20 to get a gas cylinder before the due date?
4. How many wouldn't give a bribe (donation) to a school for their children's admission?
5. How many wouldn't bribe someone to get placed in a reputed job or company?
6. How many wouldn't evade paying taxes due to the government?
7. How many wouldn't bribe judiciary officials in legal matters to get favors?
8. How many wouldn't spit/litter to dirty roads?

And the questions will go on and on. In a country where Moral Science and Civics studies are OPTIONAL and not compulsory to pass, my dear friend, you cannot expect that a fast or an agitation will change things significantly.

Regards

Corruption: A Societal Issue

Good question. Before moving to HR on corruption, let me quote one example. We offer corruption even at temples where we go for mental peace. We bypass the queue by giving a bribe. We offer bribes to poojaris to have a closer glimpse of the sanctum-sanctorum. Who is to be blamed for the rampant corruption? Obviously, the person who is offering the bribe.

Regards,
Pon

Thanks for your comments. You are right; we do placements for corporates. But let me clarify:

Our Ethical Practices

WE DO NOT PAY COMMISSIONS.
WE DO NOT WORK FOR COMPANIES WHERE THE HR HEAD / MANAGER EXPECTS A COMMISSION.

The problem is that even those who do not ask us directly for a commission use our services and by fraud give credit to the consultant who pays them a commission. We are badly hurt because of the immoral acts of the HR Manager & the Unscrupulous consultants.

Regards,
Good HR Associates

From what I gather from your query, perhaps you are a Placement Guy frustrated with the commission paid to HR-Sena in various companies for closing positions. I understand your frustration, as the practice of paying a 15%-20% commission for closing positions with intentionally higher CTC is rampant in the industry, especially in big-name companies. I've also seen HR Managers who are unaware of what they are doing, yet they end up recruiting the wrong people for the wrong posts at the 'Right Price.' And mind you, it's the same public that will support Anna Hazare or Ramdev for anti-corruption. But also note the fact that, given an opportunity to receive a bribe, I bet most of us Indians would take it. As you said, it's deeply ingrained in our culture—something which the 'Learned Souls' refer to as the "Live and Let Live Culture." It's not only HR; you name it, and Indians have a knack for extracting an extra penny somehow or the other. The 'Bakshish-Culture' introduced by the British during the pre-independence period seems to have persisted in our country. But in hindsight, also note the following facts well known to even a just-born Indian:

1. How many of us wouldn't bribe the police to get a passport clearance done?
2. How many wouldn't jump the queue to catch a bus/vehicle at the earliest?
3. How many wouldn't give an extra Rs 10-20 to get a gas cylinder before the due date?
4. How many wouldn't give a bribe (donation) to a school to secure their children's admission?
5. How many wouldn't bribe someone to get placed in a reputed job or company?
6. How many wouldn't evade paying taxes due to the government?
7. How many wouldn't bribe judiciary officials in legal matters to get favors?
8. How many wouldn't spit/litter to dirty roads?

And the questions will go on and on. In a country where Moral Science and Civics studies are OPTIONAL and not compulsory to pass, my dear friend, you cannot expect that a fast or an agitation will change things all that much.

I wonder why you distanced yourself from India by referring to it as "a country," almost as if you were referring to XYZ country! By distancing yourself, you tend to sit in the judge's seat and start judging. So let's not judge India or Indians and start judging ourselves. I agree with you. Whoever said that a fast/agitation can change things? That is what I am saying if you read carefully. We need to change our character. I myself have been upright and find myself on the RIGHT side of all your 8 questions above. (Now please do not cross-question and ask for proof. Just believe it. Please.) I am doing my bit. But my concern is that unless more people change for good, the good will always keep taking a beating. It is basically one bunch outnumbering the other.

Good HR Associates.

Regards.

Hi, why do I always find myself somehow justifying corruption? Why can't we say, "I have stopped giving bribes and commissions. Period." I guess we Indians have a mutant gene that has adopted corruption as naturally as eating and breathing. Good HR associates.

Dear Good HR Associate,

It's perhaps the right time, with Anna Hazare and Baba Ramdev fighting against corruption, to start this thread. This is the time when people start thinking about bribery and corruption.

Yes, HR is also one of the professions where such things are happening. However, I believe a good HR professional is one who refrains from such practices, selecting or rejecting a candidate, faculty, or vendor based on merit and objectivity only, not any other criteria.

I strongly believe that not only receiving a bribe but also utilizing any of the company's resources for an HR professional's personal work, without approval, is a favor received. HR professionals are recruited for the company, not the other way around.

Through this thread, we HR professionals can raise a concern about rampant corruption.

Regards,
Nitu Parmar

Cultural Change: A Gradual Process

Cultural change happens gradually with time; it doesn't happen overnight. As mentioned earlier, we need Civics, Moral Science, and Law as compulsory subjects right from school until graduation with a full 100 marks paper. Although this might not make everyone upright, at least it might stop many from being inhumane and make them aware of their responsibilities towards society and the country as a whole.

In-depth knowledge of computers, maths, stats, science, etc., can be imparted with a few trainings, but values, responsibilities, cultural awareness, patriotism, morals, civil rights, and legal laws cannot be taught overnight as they have to be ingrained in a child from a very early age. Unless this happens, don't expect people to change, no matter how hard you or anyone else tries. Reality is a fact that few realize.

Self-Reflection and National Identity

I wonder why you distanced yourself from India by referring to it as "a country," almost as if you were referring to XYZ country! By distancing yourself, you tend to sit in the judge's seat and start judging. So let's not judge India or Indians and start judging ourselves. I agree with you. Whoever said that a fast/agitation can change things. That is what I am saying if you read carefully. We need to change our character.

I myself have been upright and find myself on the right side of all your 8 questions above. Now please do not cross-question and ask for proof. Just believe it, please. I am doing my bit. But my concern is that unless more people change for the good, the good will always keep taking a beating. It is basically one bunch outnumbering the other.

Regards,
Good HR Associates.

Hi all, It's like a paradoxical question—asking which came first, the egg or the hen? Corruption is deeply rooted, and it's not just about Corporate HR. If you dig deeper, you will find all companies involved in corruption in some way or another, and ironically, some even have their own definitions of corruption. As Bhaskar mentioned, since childhood, we have been taught about accepting and giving bribes.

But yes, we as HR professionals can surely take steps to curb corruption in our areas. Let's change ourselves first and then expect the same from others. And Nikhil, I really like the phrase 'ETHICAL CORRUPTION'; in the coming days, it is going to be a very popular term. 

Regards

I don't know why you are being so judgmental and sentimental about each individual who is writing here. In fact, I did not justify anything at all. Agreeing with someone's views is not justifying, and seriously, there is nothing I'm blaming my parents for. But yes, I have seen many of them doing it. It was a general statement, and I would like you to not take it so personally.

Do you want people to say, "I will try here," and then go back to doing what they were doing before? Is that the only objective behind this post? If so, then I'm afraid it will not achieve its purpose.

Corruption exists in each one of us. Let's accept it and work towards changing ourselves. That's what I wrote earlier. I think you may not have read the entire post, so I am quoting it here again:

"But yes, we as HR professionals can surely take some steps to curb corruption in our areas. Let's change ourselves first and then expect the same from others."

That's the most important thing, I feel.

And just a request, please stop putting allegations on people and take disagreements heartily. Having a debate should be a healthy process entirely.

Thanks (Archna is the correct spelling of my name, not Archana).

Regards

I don't think anyone here supports corruption. The topic of discussion was about "What exactly one comprehends by the word 'corruption'?" Is it only the bribe that HR guys take? Or the bribe that politicians and bureaucrats take? Or is it a bribe taken in any form? Is the person giving the bribe equally responsible as the person taking the bribe? There was only an objective view of the same from a common man's angle, and that includes every one of us. Also, note that there are many good HR guys who might have helped people with jobs without expecting anything in cash or kind.

Exchange of Names of Corrupt HR Practices

Now, coming to the topic in question, I would say we need to exchange names of corrupt HR guys and their practices through forums like this. Then maybe, if possible, someone from us would let the top management in such companies know what is happening in their company with proof. Remember that HR is never a judge; we are only advocates who present the point of view to either party. And don't worry too much about rotten mangoes in the basket; they existed in the past, would exist in the present, as well as in the future. But that should not deter us from instilling the right values and morals for society to exist peacefully. Yes, I too am frustrated, just like you or anyone else here, about such issues, which would be evident from my posts themselves. But then also realize that one cannot change the world overnight. Understanding our own limitations, we need to work in our ways in the little small things daily as our contribution to this menace because we Indians have become a laughing stock today to the people of the world as India is a safe haven for corruption. Hope you can add your valuable viewpoints on the above thoughts.

Ah, a debate that I love the most. Now let me give you all a sound firing, err, I mean my views. Almost every member justified the corruption going on in HR, even the boss justified it. It's so bad of senior HR persons to say like this. I have so much respect for the boss; never mind, ultimately, it implies that all the members who justified corruption have done corruption in some other way or will surely do so in the future when the opportunity comes. But they never know that they are a part of the ecosystem, so instead of opposing corruption, they are encouraging it. So the next time they get caught at some signal by a policeman, they won't hesitate in giving 100 rs to the policeman as a bribe because they have illegally earned 500 rs. But people like us will feel it because it's hard-earned money.

Anna Hazare, Baba Ramdev campaigns are utter nonsense, just political gimmicks to make people silent for some time. It's of no use at all. India is going worse day by day, and people say India is shining. The only way to earn money today is by corruption, and people who do corruption, he is waiting for you.

Now, good HR associates feel the pain that they are being cheated. I say when someone cheats you, why worry? Don't you know the proverb "LAATON KE BHUT BAATON SE NAHI MAANTE"? So do accordingly and make the judgment. And one more thing, in today's world, the only humanity you can find is in dogs and in rural areas. Urban, metro people are all hard stones, so when we come to work, survive in this so-called corporate world, we need to make ourselves stone and go with the flow. Then only we are able to survive, else with the high cost of living, it's too hard. So, in spite of the fact you are honest, you are losing on so many contracts. So if you want to make money, become corrupt, take some evidence against HR, blackmail them, and every month ask them to give 50% of their pay, else their records will be made public. Sounds interesting, do something interesting, something mad in life, then life is delicious.

Look at this video.

Going by the general comments made by many of the members, it looks like Good HR is in the dock more for the way (tone, tenor, etc.) in which he/she has raised this topic—not that he/she raised it at all.

Let's look at it very objectively—is this the first time that this topic was raised in CiteHR? Definitely not. Then, while the earlier postings got just 2-3 responses (max—'single-digit' responses), why is it that this posting got so many responses—already into the second page within one day?

I guess, sometimes it does need a 'jhatka' to ensure the rest of the crowd either wakes up from slumber or takes notice. Good HR's tone and tenor seem to have served that purpose. To take a case in point, whoever expected Anna Hazare to get the level and scale of response in the first few hours of sitting for his satyagraha? Definitely not him—which he mentioned later. Good HR's posting seems to have acted like that Satyagraha here on CiteHR.

But, frankly, I think Good HR should have changed gears to get into the suggestive mold immediately thereafter—to get to the specifics/brasstacks on 'HOW TO HANDLE' the issue rather than taking the stand he/she did...including the 'judgmental' role.

Nikhil R made a comment, in the form of a query: "But do you think this will happen?"

"I don't think it will if we just keep asking 'But do you think this will happen?' or even worse: 'This will not happen,' because it's been there for thousands of years—going by S. Bhaskar's examples.

For those who follow history, Untouchability existed in this country for almost the same timeframe that S. Bhaskar mentioned. What's the scenario now? Not that it's fully eradicated, but 'almost yes.' Some things take time to change...in this case nearly two centuries, to reach this stage. But it will. And this was thanks to William Benetick (not too sure of the spelling, but that's beside the point), the then Governor General of India—early/mid-1800s. Now I only hope some smart alec doesn't wake up to say that let the British or some other countrymen rule India again for this corruption scourge to be removed!

I would differ from Good HR's comments that others are trying to 'justify' their views. I think it's more of an unwillingness to DO and ACT rather than justifying—since it's normal human nature to be afraid of/resist change and more importantly, unwillingness to move out of the 'Comfort Zone.' The reason why I say this is 28677c5420521383353edc6e6's comments: In a country where Moral Science and Civics studies are OPTIONAL...

I am not so sure that just by making Moral Sciences COMPULSORY, it will solve this problem. If that were so, how would one explain S. Bhaskar's comments, which in fact are true to a large extent? In the good old days, education was through the 'Gurukul' methodology, where such moral education was pretty standard.

Now that doesn't mean that Moral Education isn't needed—as far as I can see, it will ENSURE THAT the foundation of the future is laid well. But what about the PRESENT? Despite Moral Education, if kids see and hear corruption on a daily basis with their eyes and ears, would such education have any 'retentive effect'?

Coming to Pon's remarks: "...obviously, the person who is offering the bribe." Though what he mentions about the temple scenario is a fact that we watch regularly, there are TWO facets to any such corruption situation, NOT JUST what he or others mentioned:

1. It takes TWO to tango, like the Americans say...or in our language, it takes TWO HANDS/PALMS to clap. The proof of this is Good HR's comments: 'WE DO NOT PAY COMMISSIONS and WE DO NOT WORK FOR COMPANIES WHERE THE HR HEAD/MANAGER EXPECTS A COMMISSION.'

Like the saying goes—everything has a price to be paid, I know the price Good HR had to pay for this trait/ethic.

So was there any corruption involved here? I can understand his/her situation very well, since I too sail in an IDENTICAL boat. I have had to decide to continue or lose Top-Notch companies—NOT 'company' (among the TOP-5 IT companies) as clients, let alone the many small and medium-sized ones because of this factor. And I know what I LOST in terms of 'success' (as per the 'definition' that S. Bhaskar gave—in fact, I don't think he's alone in such a definition) and also what I GAINED in terms of mental/spiritual peace and balance. After all, those companies aren't the ONLY ones on the face of Earth—however much they may arrogate themselves. Today I am dealing with companies where there are NO DEALS.

2. We talk about 'taking steps, action, etc.' to stop this practice. But is the HR community really serious?

A case in point: I am not sure that out of the many HR professionals that this Forum has, how many are working where the Company practice has been to INSIST on the contact details ALONG WITH the resumes for the initial scrutiny. I know there are such Companies. Is such info REALLY NEEDED at that stage of the process? The reasons given range from 'company rules' to 'we want to speed up the process and we can do it better'—or words amounting to that effect and so on.

Now an interesting scenario emerges—either that particular HR person is corrupt (wanting to use methods what Good HR mentioned) OR he/she is UNKNOWINGLY creating scope for a corrupt colleague to take advantage of the situation—whom would one blame? The system was created in such a way that it's only 'WHEN' rather than 'IF' corruption takes place in that Company.

Like Archna mentioned about '...take some steps to curb corruption in our areas...', can the members of this Forum working in such Companies PUT A STOP TO THIS PRACTICE—to begin with?

What she said is right. What the other person does or says IS NOT IN OUR HANDS, but what I/WE can DO/SAY is in OUR HANDS—why not take a stand and make a beginning?

But this would be just a speck of sand...like the saying goes. If those who are corrupt in this profession need to be handled the right/proper way, a lot needs to be done for which I don't think individual efforts would suffice. It would need a platform where like-minded professionals would join to devise a PoA...mind you, this wouldn't be easy at all, having seen how HR persons can be smart in devising their ways of handling such corruption from THEIR perspective. In a way, they could put even Ramalinga Raju to shame. This MAY also need the help of sting operations—those members who work in the Media could get involved in such situations.

Will/Can CiteHR pick up the gauntlet?

Regards,
TS

Dear Good.HR. Associates,

Reflections on Corruption

There is a two-line 'kavita' in Hindi:
Rishwat Liya; Pakada Gaya
Rishwat Diya; Chod diya.

This is the world. No one can finish anybody's career. It is their deeds that decide their life, career, growth, fall, etc.

Regards.

Corruption Beyond Material Benefits

Corruption is not only about accepting or taking material benefits. What about a corrupt mind? Expecting disproportionate increments not commensurate with actual efficiency or threatening the employer with resignation for a pay hike, etc., as we are witnessing in the corporate world. Corruption or a corrupt mind cannot be completely weeded out but can be minimized in a democratic country.

Regards,
Pon

Dear All, I am really disturbed by the overwhelming majority of "Naysayers"—those who have accepted or want to accept corruption as part of their daily life. I don't know what to call them! Will "SPINELESS" be an appropriate term? Now, I know that I have brought the wrath of the "spineless" upon myself. Unconsciously, the "spineless" will identify the term with themselves and respond in defense of their missing spines :)

Good HR Associates

Dear All, I am really disturbed by the overwhelming majority of "Naysayers"—those who have accepted or want to accept corruption as part of their daily life. I don't know what to call them! Will "SPINELESS" be an appropriate term? Now, I know that I have brought the wrath of the "spineless" upon myself. Unconsciously, the "spineless" will identify the term with themselves and respond in defense of their missing spines :)

Good HR Associates

Dear Good HR Associates,

It's been a pleasure to read your posts and the replies. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and views. I'm here to support all measures against corruption, however small they may be. This is what, to date (in my own ways), I've been doing. Though many times I've faced undesirable consequences, nonetheless, it's my decision, and I shall stay committed. For me, it's a matter of principles.

I've been a personal witness where a person who stood by his ideals was denied promotion. In fact, his superior mentioned negative remarks just because this person was not taking bribes (he worked in the Materials department), and because of him, the superior was unable to get a cut in the entire deal. It was accepted because when you choose to walk a chosen path, there are many consequences attached to it. I am also not saying that these consequences are negative only.

Corruption isn't just centered in corporate HR but is widespread everywhere. Right from health, law, education fields, abuse of authority, and so on. Just filling out written petitions or signing pledges doesn't work. One might put it on paper and then forget! We need good role models too!

It has to start from within, and I'm sure there would be many to join.

Like they say, "The fight for justice against corruption is never easy. It never has been and never will be easy."

Regards

Dear Shalini, I salute you and your colleague. Hats off to the few brave and determined people like you. Shalini, what you have mentioned will DEFINITELY boost the morale of everybody who is against corruption of any kind—moral or material. More people should come out like you and claim to have taken the right path and make their commitment public.

The Good Now Need to Shout from Rooftops About Their Resolve

More people like you, me, and several others shouting against corruption will be enough to send shivers down the non-existent spines of the corrupt and naysayers. We don't need to be afraid of the corrupt. They need to be afraid of us. And they will be—soon. I invite more people who have resolved and taken a vow to remain clean of corruption. Bouquets to you and your likes, Shalini.

Good HR Associates.

Good HR Associates, It is an interesting post! I am really happy to see you 'fight' it out. You might single yourself out in the end, but it would definitely be worth it. Anything done to curb corruption is welcome. If you think this can be supported, let us know. We will try our best.

I feel the root of this issue lies elsewhere, and that is the lack of respect for education. Our development paradigm went a little off-track to begin with. The 'second best' alternative, along with corrupt politicians, has taken the country to the dogs. Corruption would thrive only if there is support at the top. A nonchalant government is a perfect 'stimulus' package for corruption. Although we have had great ministers, the subtle compromise of choices and quality reached a critical mass and has now snowballed into huge rackets of corruption. One sees this point being raised time and again... HR being an 'everybody's zone'... In other words, we have degraded our systems to the extent that we don't know what the value of education should be. Most engineers in our country are not even close to all the areas of engineering. In fact, the fly-by-night engineering schools have made it possible to lower the entry barriers but have not helped ensure the high quality required of the product. From a demand perspective (of engineering graduates), the focus of our market has always been to 'run the show' rather than to 'create the show'. It's like comparing making a new car to driving or maintaining the car. Obviously, a driver/mechanic needs very different and select skills. You do that a little too often, and you enter into a loop... That's happening now.

This is a vicious circle. The lack of respect is due to the surplus supply, something that comes due to excessive population. Anyone is fond of having a highly qualified individual for peanuts. The human resource department seldom says that we don't need a graduate, but even a 12th std. student would perform well in a job. This is where they are not understanding the value of education themselves. Moreover, the fly-by-night schools that are springing up in the country are only worsening the scenario. They are abusing education further! Just see it for yourself. You see posts in the Ascent that almost always call for graduates, while those in the Gulf rarely insist on graduates (largely diploma).

Our governance model is largely 'imported', and this is a huge cause of concern. It is a case of an inappropriate management system. It worked for the British, but might not be the best here. Our essential system is based on distrust rather than trust. If the reservation window takes too long at the railway station, people say he is not doing his work well, or even that he might be from the 'elevated' categories. Our model makes us run down our own people. This is another problem because our performance appraisal criteria are often skewed. Moreover, the distrust model actually calls for a great deal of political skills rather than professional skills (if one can differentiate between the two).

Given this scenario, I feel that corruption is a secondary symptom. It's like treating the fever instead of the TB. Anna Hazare is trying to use corruption to try and siphon out the dirt in the system. After all, it's easy to trace a problem through a symptom rather than trying to fight it out directly.

All said, I will still stand by you when in need. But I feel we should have the right expectations. First-class men recruit first-class men; second-class men recruit third-class men. If that is happening more frequently, you might not be able to reach back the first-class position (especially when it is over a generation!).

Lastly, true, the HR has had a significant role to play. I agree with you that the basic screening point of people (input check) is failing. If there is corruption in the corporate, I would put it fairly and squarely on the HR, for their attitude has led to this situation. Their performance criteria should address this issue. After all, it's an HR issue and not a mere corporate philosophy. It is indeed a pity!

Regards,

Thanks for the appreciation. The incident I mentioned happened with my dear Dad; he worked with the Central Government. It was a matter of dignity for him. He chose to live with the consequences rather than be part of something that opposed his principles. Small drops make an ocean. Similarly, small actions will definitely bring in fresh air.

This topic has been close to my heart since my childhood, as my sisters and I saw a lot in terms of my father's struggle. But what we learned from it was never to give up. The brighter side was that he did later find people who actually supported him, though they were small in numbers. Finally, after many years, he did succeed - that's all that mattered to us.

I was tempted to share this experience, which is etched in our personal lives.

Philosophical Insights on Responsibility and Karma

You can count on me in any of your efforts—no ifs, ands, or buts. Regarding S. Bhaskar's comments, let me respond in his own philosophical way vis-a-vis his remarks: "No one can finish anybody's career. It is their deeds which decide their life, career, growth, fall, etc."

He is right—none is responsible for another's actions, decisions, or future, however one wants to 'define' it. But it's also true that one gets into situations where they have to face the effects or consequences of their 'deeds.' If the deeds are positive, they lead to pleasing and positive situations, while negative, unethical, or immoral deeds lead to mentally excruciating and negative situations. Invariably, in such situations, other persons are and will be involved. Like the Bible says: As you sow, so you reap. If one causes harm to another person, they will have to face such a situation themselves—no other way. Hinduism calls this the 'Law of Karma.'

Applying Philosophy to Current HR Corruption

So now, applying this to the current topic under discussion, maybe the time for the corrupt in HR has come through people like Good HR Associates to get a taste of their own medicine?

If one thinks this is all philosophy—far away from reality or practical (unfortunately, the 'definition' of these words has changed over time, I guess)—nothing could be further from the truth. All I can suggest to such people is to recollect the not-so-very-recent past of the many scamsters who are now in jails. Each of them behaved and lived like real Rajas, and where are they now? Goodness only knows how many more will follow this lot into jails.

Regards,
TS

You definitely have a point, S. Bhaskar. It does pay to 'halt' once in a while, look around, and then move forward again. Such a strategy not only gives one the time to review, ponder, rest, change tack—if needed—and then follow the goal again with renewed vigor.

At least it worked for me on many occasions. I recollect many (including close ones, siblings) who wrote me off once I began taking a stand on corruption in the way I conduct my business as well as how I live my life. Such relationships were thrown by the wayside (not by me, but of their own accord), but I still exist today with clients who are clean.

I recollect a Sanskrit quote here: "Dharmo rakshati rakshitaha"—Truth protects those who protect Truth (though the 'dharma' in this quote covers a whole gamut of other aspects—that's beside the point in this context).

What Shalini mentioned basically corroborates this aspect of life and in the way we conduct our lives.

Regards,
TS

Hey all, I believe instead of fighting and debating, let's discuss. We all agree that someone who is serious and passionate about being an HR professional will never think of doing anything unethical, be it nepotism, bribery, or whatever.

Understanding Corrupt HR Practices

Let's understand what we mean by being a corrupt HR. Does corrupt HR mean only taking favors or giving favors? How many of us in HR have not given favors to the Statutory Inspectors, etc.?

I guess we all have to take a stand that we will not let any malpractice exist in the HR systems wherever we work and in whatever capacity. As humans, we do stand up when some injustice is being done with someone we know, but how many of us have stood up for the rights of employees and fought with management to provide the employees with a benefit or stop management from depriving the employees of a benefit?

Facing Challenges in HR Ethics

How many times have we accepted a penalty from the Labor Department and tried solving it the right way, instead of bribing the official? How many times have we, as HR professionals, indulged in politics to corner an employee through one policy or the other without realizing the effects of the policy on the psyche or the environment of the company?

As HR professionals, we are supposed to ask tough questions to the management also when the rights of employees are not respected, but how many times have we done so?

These are some of the thoughts that I was having when I saw the title of the post. Hope we do get some ideas and discussions that can make our minds tick.

Hi Everyone, I wish to thank each and every one of you who have read the thread and posted their valuable comments. I welcome all views, whether for, against, or neutral.

Awareness and Personal Change

The basic idea is to become more and more aware of this menace called corruption and fight it with our hearts, helping to build national character. The easiest route to eradicate most problems in our country is simply telling just one person to change - YOURSELF.

Let's stop blaming governments, politicians, society, the education system, etc. Let's focus on improving the character of just one person - YOURSELF.

Commitment to Moral Values

I am committed to all things moral and all things in the national interest. I love my country, and I am proud of it with all its shortcomings. I vow to change it for the better by changing just one person - ME! I will never stop changing for the better!

All the best to you guys.

Regards, Good HR Associates

You can count on me in any of your efforts, period—no ifs, ands, or buts. Regarding S. Bhaskar's comments, let me answer him in his own philosophical way vis-a-vis his comments: "No one can finish anybody's careers. It is their deed which decides their life, career, growth, fall, etc."

He is right—none is responsible for another's actions, decisions, or future—however one wants to 'define' it. But it's also true that one gets into situations where he/she has to face the effects/consequences of their 'deeds.' If the deeds are positive, they get into situations that are pleasing/positive and into mentally excruciating/negative situations if the 'deeds' were negative, unethical, or immoral. And invariably, in such situations, other persons are and will be involved. Like the Bible says: As you sow, so you reap. If one causes harm to another person, this person has to get into a situation where he/she has to face such a situation himself/herself—no other way. Hinduism calls this the 'Law of Karma.'

So now applying this to the current topic under discussion, maybe the time for the corrupt in HR has come through people like Good HR Associates to get a taste of their own medicine? If one thinks this is all philosophy—far away from reality/practical (unfortunately the 'definition' of these words has changed over time, I guess)—nothing can be further from the truth. All I can suggest to such people is to recollect the not-so-very-recent past of the many scamsters who are now in jails. Each of them behaved and lived like real Rajas...and where are they now? And God only knows how many more will be following this lot into jails.

Regards, TS

Thanks, TS. It is people like you who are needed in more numbers. We need to spread the positivity of good national character and the negativity of evils like corruption. It may take time, but we need to continue unabated. There is no way evil can win over good.

Good HR Associates

Dear Nikhil, Thanks for your insights and your studied response. I agree with you. There are a lot of fronts where the battles need to be fought. But you know, there are a lot of highly educated men and women in IAS, IPS, the corporate world, IIT/IIM graduates, Armed Forces personnel from good families who indulge in corruption - WHY? In my humble opinion, the WAR needs to be won from WITHIN by each one of us. We need to change, I need to change. I need to win my battle with my own temptations, greed, morals, and attitudes, so do you! For that, I need to wake up our conscience and LISTEN to it. No amount of Education, Systems, Processes, Population control, Govt, etc., will work if we as people have a conscience that is asleep. We just need to listen to our conscience. Rest will take care of itself. Regards, Good HR Associates

Today's Biggest Barrier to Prosperity

India has all the talents, skills, and competencies to compete on a global scale. However, corruption is rusting our progress. It is crucial that someone, somewhere, starts inculcating awareness that this is a heinous crime. I believe that corruption is the offspring of corrupt political leaders, and these leaders should be changed.

Changing the leaders is within our power. Citizens cannot select a good leader unless they are aware of what is good and bad. Therefore, educating them, developing skills of good judgment, and empowering them with sufficient knowledge are the keys to overcoming this problem.

Dear S. Bhaskar, I agree with you that the world sees us only by how we manage and not by how we live with our principles. However, we can at least show the world how we are living with our principles, can't we?

Moreover, when seeking school admission for a child, we can refuse to pay a donation, fight for admission based on merit, or, as a last resort, enroll the child in another school (which may not be the top preference). Here, we need to decide what our priority is: living up to principles or having the child admitted to the preferred school after making a donation.

I strongly believe that one of the criteria to measure someone's success should be their principles (if any) and adherence to them.

Yes, living up to principles does bring suffering to oneself and one's family. But, like gold, we must pass through heat, right?

Regards,
Nitu Parmar

"Hi Dear S Bhaskar,
"You can take a resolution that you will not accept any bribe or gift from someone. But you cannot deny giving a bribe or gift; if you do, you cannot function as a successful person."

With reference to the above-mentioned opinion, I would like to state an example from my own life.

I received a promising job offer from a company in Kuwait. Due to new international developments, I was required to obtain a Police Clearance Certificate (PCC) from the Regional Passport Office (RPO) to complete my VISA formalities for a smooth entry into Kuwait. According to the process, the RPO needed local police verification papers to issue the PCC, a simple 3-day process as explained by an honest official at the RPO. However, as I awaited police verification, two weeks passed, and upon inquiry, I was surprised and dismayed to find that they demanded a bribe to forward my papers, despite my papers being clean and free of any issues. I refused to pay the bribe and demanded an explanation for the delays. The police were rude and arrogant, behaving as if they controlled my destiny. Days turned into months, and I lost the job offer due to the delays. It was a traumatic experience. I escalated the matter to the regional collector level, only to be brushed aside and advised to pay the bribe to avoid further complications. I did not give up. I gathered my courage and confronted the in-charge inspector at the police station, adamant about not paying the bribe. I emotionally conveyed how their actions were affecting my career and responsibilities. Eventually, they forwarded my papers, and I received my PCC in 68 days instead of the usual 7-10 day process. Though I lost a good job offer, I found another one, albeit not as great as the previous one. I am content that I stood up against corruption and emerged victorious. Sensitizing corrupt officials and making them realize their wrongdoings was a greater punishment than penalizing them for corruption.

For short-term success and convenience, we cannot allow corruption to infiltrate our lives. We are creating a world of injustice and frustration for future generations. Good must prevail over evil. The poison of corruption threatens our very existence.

Thank you for reading."

Dear Hussain, I am not condoning the bribe, but the case narrated by you is different. Suppose one of your near and dear ones is admitted to a government hospital due to a road accident and is battling for life. In such circumstances, if doctors or nurses demand some bribe to carry out the emergency operation, will you apply your principles at that time?

Principles sometimes become ineffective in our society. Bhaskar is trying to explain in the same way, I think.

Regards,
Pon

Yes, I agree with you and Bhaskar. When it comes to matters of life and death, we need to bow our heads to these corrupted monsters. However, my intention is to convey that we shall take a strong stand against corrupt practices that can be controlled or discouraged. With persistent resistance, there will be a time when our society can reach at least 80% corruption-free levels, where asking for a bribe will be considered a sin or looked down upon terribly, and being honest will be a cool thing.

We encourage corruption for our petty conveniences, not realizing that we are feeding this monster to become bigger and bigger, as beautifully explained by seniors in this thread.

- Donation to schools, colleges by low performers.
- Bribe to get early delivery of Gas Cylinders.
- Bribe to clear traffic law violations.
- Bribe to get a job.
- Bribe to get a passport, just because one doesn't want to go through required security paper checks or just to get an early passport for convenience.

Many times we don't want to fight, fearing backlash. We teach our children not to fight against injustice and corruption, remaining fearful of these corrupt officials, further passing the baton of acceptance and tolerance.

Let's first tackle small corruption in our daily routines and eradicate corruption. Then, we can strive to remove the bigger menace from matters affecting life and death!

It's happening, and as a young Indian, I dream that this country will be free from these monsters, and I shall begin this change in my heart and be a seed of revolution!

Thanks for reading!

I agree with your views, Hussain. Let us hope for the best. Our lifestyle, our way of living, and our relationship with society, etc., are totally different from 50 years ago. If something bad happens to our neighbors, we are reluctant to come out, fearing backlash. We are isolated in our lives. There is no unity. We elect the wrong leaders. We accept freebies from politicians, and in turn, they loot a thousand times more than what they give. We forget about corrupt leaders so quickly; our memory is short, and we elect them again, fully aware of their wrongdoings. Many corrective measures need to be taken as a whole. As long as we remain gullible, they will have the upper hand.

Regards,
Pon

Dear Mr. Hussain Zulfikar,

I appreciate your courage and adventure to succeed. If you had paid the bribe to the concerned police immediately, you might have achieved your destiny, retained your peace of mind, and completed the task in 7 to 10 days. However, the adventure (all inconveniences are adventures - rightly considered) you embarked on cost you a good destiny (now you have only the second best, not the first best), a 2-month delay in getting your job done, 2 months filled with mental agony, and loss of peaceful sleep. With that, what have you taught the police person? It amounts to a big ZERO because they all act as a gang, and there will be no real action against anyone.

Is the money you are going to lose worth more than your peace of mind and your destiny? Is your two months of peaceful sleep less valuable than the money demanded as a bribe for your destiny? We must think in that way, Mr. Hussain Zulfikar. (That means I am not supporting the bribe system, but as I mentioned earlier, I can resolve not to accept bribes, donations, or gifts from anyone, though I cannot avoid offering them to accomplish my requirements. In another way, you can decently name it as Opportunity Cost in terms of Economics.

Even one Assistant Labour Commissioner in Andhra Pradesh was caught red-handed and suspended for a while, but after a 7-year period, the same person returned to the same office with two promotions (in 7 years) and assumed the role of Joint Labour Commissioner of the district, starting to earn multiples of the earlier collection.

Example from My Life

With reference to the above-mentioned opinion, I would like to share an example from my own life.

I received a promising job offer from a company in Kuwait. Due to new international developments, I needed to obtain a Police Clearance Certificate (PCC) from the Regional Passport Office (RPO) to complete my visa formalities for a smooth entry into Kuwait. As per the process, the RPO required local police verification papers to issue the PCC, which an honest official at the RPO explained to me as a simple 3-day process. However, as I waited for the police verification, two weeks passed without any progress. Upon inquiring, I was surprised and dismayed to learn that they asked for a bribe to move forward with my papers, even though my papers were clean and without any issues. I refused to pay the bribes and demanded an explanation for the delays. The police were rude and arrogant, behaving as if they controlled my destiny. Days turned into months, and I lost the job offer due to the delays. It was a traumatic experience. I escalated the matter to the regional collector level, but I was dismissed and advised to pay the bribe to avoid further trouble. I did not give up. I gathered my courage, marched into the police station, and told the in-charge inspector that I would not pay the bribe, no matter what. I made them realize how they were jeopardizing my career and responsibilities. Eventually, after 68 days, instead of the normal 7-10 days, I received my PCC. I acknowledge that I lost a good job offer, but I obtained another one, albeit not as great as the previous one (destiny). I am content that I fought against corruption and emerged victorious. Sensitizing corrupt officials and making them realize their wrongdoings was a greater punishment than penalizing them for corruption.

For short-term success and convenience, we cannot allow corruption to infiltrate our lives. We are creating a world of injustice and frustration for future generations. Good must prevail over evil. This poison of corruption threatens our very existence.

Thank you for reading.

Regards

Dear Mr. Hussain,

We encourage corruption for our petty conveniences, not realizing that we are feeding this monster to become bigger and bigger, which is very beautifully explained by seniors in this thread.

Shall We Decently Call It Hereinafter as Opportunity Cost?

Donation to schools, colleges by low performers.

It is not a matter of low performance. For Pre-KG/LKG students, where do you assess the performance level? Please shed some light on the issue?

Bribe to get early delivery of Gas Cylinders.

If you are not giving something to the delivery boys, then what cost will you have to pay for the purchase of food for two days? Will it be affordable to a lower-middle-class family? Have you ever analyzed it from that angle?

Bribe to clear traffic law violations.

Even if you strictly abide by traffic rules, you will be asked for your license, RC Book, Insurance. If you have everything, the next question will be about overspeeding, for which you cannot prove that you have never oversped. If you do not offer 50 or 100 as a bribe, then you will spend your two days simply dealing with the police, court, and other so-called officials. Is it worth more than your 50 or 100 bucks?

Bribe to get a job.

I am dead against this one. Wherever I have worked or am working, I have gotten opportunities based solely on merit and not through any influence or bribery. As I do not have any influence in my company or any political party, I am currently employed in Western India after leaving my home state where more job opportunities are available. However, after coming here, I have started feeling (after witnessing my children struggle to keep up with their studies) that maybe I should use some influence.

Bribe to get a passport, just because one doesn't want to go through the required security checks or simply for convenience.

Even if you have all the proper documents and details, your application may be held up for want of a bribe. For instance, one of my colleagues, Mr. XXX, applied for passports for his daughters who are in their final year and third year of B.Tech respectively and needed to take an online exam for which a passport number was required. He applied, and police verification is pending. Now, the Rs. 10,000/- he paid for each passport for his daughters has gone to waste. If he had paid Rs. 1,000 per passport, his daughters might have taken the exams, and their careers would have been on track.

Many times, we choose not to fight, fearing backlash. We teach our children not to stand up against injustice and corruption, instilling in them a fear of corrupt officials, thereby perpetuating the cycle of acceptance and tolerance.

You are correct in saying that we are teaching our children to live in harmony with society. However, Mr. Good HR Associates, I am compelled to write this thread because the tolerance level has been exceeded regarding bribery. We should unite to fight against corruption and raise our voices.

Thanks for sharing your views, Mr. Hussain Zulfikar.

Dear Bhaskar,

I completely understand the helplessness against these issues, wherein a small bribe may help us avoid bigger stress. Considering the hectic, competitive life we live in, we prefer to part with such bribes, but we are sinking into deeper troubles by this tolerant behavior. There may be a thousand examples that we can debate on justifying bribes and the helplessness we suffer.

Donation to Schools and Colleges

Donation to schools and colleges by low performers is a significant concern. The donation demanded by KG schools is completely unethical. We cannot judge cute little toddlers on merit; they deserve schooling by all standards. Typically, it should be on a first-come, first-serve basis. Fees should be appropriately charged to run schools effectively, despite government grants, financial aids, trustees, and education system support. Still, schools demand donations or bribes. Somewhere, this is encouraged by parents themselves to win some psychological show-off game or seek the best for their kids. Rich parents display their financial power, gaining preferential admission for their wards ahead of deserving ones.

My intention was also to mention the heavy donations paid by students in colleges. Despite being low performers, they secure seats in prestigious institutions with the help of money power.

Bribes in Daily Life

Bribes to expedite the delivery of gas cylinders are another issue. Gas companies have sufficient supplies, yet corrupt gas agencies create false shortages to profit more. They exploit the fear of Indians, knowing that even a little pressure or abusive language will make normal middle-class Indians pay bribes quietly. We do not stand together; our neighbors and community members do not come forward to fight this wrong. Individually, we pay bribes and chuckle to get early deliveries, prioritizing ourselves over our neighbors. One strong Indian raising their voice is suppressed by a hundred weak Indians, an unfortunate irony.

Bribes to clear traffic law violations are rampant when we fail to respect our rights. Police officials take advantage of this. I have argued with police officials for wrongly demanded bribes and promptly paid fines for traffic violations, even if accidental, despite poorly designed roads.

There are many more examples we could delve into, but that is not my point. As responsible citizens of India, we should sensitize ourselves to any corrupt official or act we encounter in our daily lives. Corrupt officials are also people, possibly facing stress, problems, or sheer greed. However, beneath all the dirt lies a hidden good person. We need to slowly remove this dirt and bring out the goodness within them, making them realize the harm they cause to their fellow countrymen and future generations.

I am very impressed and inspired by the movie, "Lage Raho Munna Bhai," in which Gandhian philosophy is well presented. These corrupt individuals are sick, ill, diseased, and they need to be cured. Each one of us can be the doctors, sweepers, and cleaners of this dirt.

Change will not happen overnight; it requires one day, one case, one act, one word, one change at a time. I see it happening!

Thank you.

With reference to the losses I faced for not bribing to get my PCC, I understand I could have benefited. But something stopped me from bribing at that point in time. It was the limit of my tolerance, the behavior, the arrogance, the invincibility of corruption which made me think, what I'm feeding!

The Normalization of Corruption

Corruption has become a normal routine affair in our lives. I was sick of paying bribes and being humiliated at most events which involved interacting with public officials. Despite paying bribes, we are at their mercy, joining hands, bowing our heads, and begging them to do the work for which they have a duty. They behave as if there is no god, no justice, no right or wrong, no conscience, no respect.

Are We Truly Free?

As discussed earlier in the thread, are we really free? We are slaves to this corruption now! For our peace of mind, we are selling our dignity. In fact, we are paying bribes to make these corrupt people stronger to rule over us. Today, they are smiling when taking bribes, tomorrow they will threaten us! Let's wait for those days! We can justify our opportunity cost!

Regards,

Corruption in Corporate HR: A Personal Experience

"You can take a resolution that you will not accept any bribe or gift from someone. But you cannot deny giving a bribe or gift; if you do so, you cannot function as a successful person."

With reference to the above-mentioned opinion, I would like to share an example from my own life. I received a promising job offer from a company in Kuwait. Due to new international developments, I was required to obtain a PCC (Police Clearance Certificate) from RPO to complete my VISA formalities for a smooth entry into Kuwait. According to the process, RPO needed local police verification papers to issue PCC, a simple 3-day process as explained by an honest official at RPO. However, after waiting for the police verification for two weeks, I was surprised and dismayed when they asked for a bribe to expedite my papers, despite my documents being clean and clear. Refusing to pay the bribe, I demanded an explanation for the delays.

The police responded rudely and arrogantly, acting as if they controlled my fate. Days turned into months, and I lost the job offer due to the delays. This experience was traumatic. Taking the matter to the regional collector level, I was dismissed and advised to pay the bribe to avoid further issues. Refusing to give in, I confronted the police, expressing my frustration and determination not to succumb to corruption. Eventually, my papers were forwarded, and I received my PCC after 68 days instead of the usual 7 - 10 days. Though I lost a good job offer, I found another, albeit not as great as the previous one. I am content knowing I stood up against corruption, sensitizing officials to their wrongdoing, a greater punishment than penalization.

For short-term gains and convenience, we cannot allow corruption to seep into our lives. We are creating a world of injustice and frustration for future generations. Good must prevail over evil; the poison of corruption threatens our very existence.

Thanks for reading.

Dear Hussain,

Please accept a standing ovation from all of us who have been discussing this topic. Hats off to you. It proves there is no dearth of people with the courage and principles to combat corruption.

I would like to add, after reviewing comments from others, that even if one has engaged in bribery in the past, there is always a free will and choice to refrain from such actions starting today. Past mistakes do not bind one to continue making those mistakes, nor render one helpless. I view justifications for bribery as mere excuses. Let's initiate change from now on! As simple as that!

Regards,
Good HR Associates

Dear Mr. Hussain Zulfikar, I appreciate your courage and adventure to succeed. If you had paid the bribe to the concerned police immediately, you might have reached your destiny, retained your peace of mind, and accomplished the task in 7 to 10 days. However, the adventure (all inconveniences are adventures—rightly considered) you embarked on has cost you a good destiny (now you have only the second best, not the first best), resulting in a 2-month delay in getting your job done. These 2 months were filled with mental agony and loss of peaceful sleep. What have you taught the police person in return? It amounts to nothing because they all act as a gang, and there will be no real action against anyone.

Is the money you are going to lose worth more than your peace of mind and your destiny? Is your peaceful sleep for two months less valuable than the bribe demanded for your destiny? We must think in that way, Mr. Hussain Zulfikar. (This means I do not support the bribe system, but as mentioned earlier, I can resolve not to accept bribes, donations, or gifts from anyone, even though I cannot avoid offering them to fulfill my requirements). In another perspective, you can decently call it Opportunity Cost in terms of Economics.

Even an Assistant Labour Commissioner in Andhra Pradesh was caught red-handed and suspended for a while. However, after a 7-year period, the same person took over the same office with two promotions (within 7 years) and assumed the role of Joint Labour Commissioner of the district, starting to earn multiples of the earlier collection.

Dear Bhaskar, Once again, it appears that you are defending the existing system. Change does not happen overnight; it requires the majority to think alike to make a difference. This is a deeply rooted social evil that will take time and effort to change. If we were to follow your line of thinking, we would just accept things as they are because they have always been this way, believing we have no power to effect change. I view this as a negative and pessimistic approach. Many of our freedom fighters died without knowing that one day we would be free. They fought for what was right, held onto hope, and had faith that together, they could defeat the empire.

Please have faith in UNITY and PEOPLE POWER. Be OPTIMISTIC. We will surely overcome this challenge soon.

Regards, Good HR Associates.

Thank you for the appreciation. I would be happier if we all could spread awareness of being sensitive towards any unethical practice. There are significant scams that can be taken care of by the CBI, CAG, or other investigative committees. However, every citizen of India also has to pitch in by discouraging small corrupt practices in our daily lives, routines, interactions, upbringing, preachings, teachings, mentorings, trainings, school levels, college levels, corporate levels, etc.

We shall propagate a silent yet effective revolution against such corrupt practices. At some point in time, we all have been corrupt for something. So let's not blame, punish, or boycott people who indulge in this temptation, but let's cure this disease.

Motivate humane and ethical practices through advertising, preachings, training, teaching, and mentoring. Let's slow down in our fast rat race and take some minutes, hours, or days off to clean our society.

Municipality boards should encourage 50% of ad space for social messages on every commercial advertising, banners, hoardings, billboards, etc.

Advertise corrupt acts of officials in public, bring them out in public glare.

Question unethical practices, demand explanations, and demand them on paper.

Make an effort to educate ourselves on the processes to be followed for any tasks. Let's not get lazy and pass off our responsibility.

Let these initiatives take 50 years to show results, but nevertheless, it will be worth it for future generations! As you rightly mentioned, freedom fighters who sacrificed their lives didn't know if India would actually get independence, but they dreamt. They believed in positive change, they acted when it was needed.

I completely understand Bhaskar and Pon's point of view as well. Helplessness is what the majority of Indians feel against corruption, but let's change the tables.

Thanks a lot for reading!

Addressing Unethical Practices in Society

Thank you for the appreciation. I would be happier if we all could spread awareness about being sensitive to unethical practices. There are significant scams that can be managed by the CBI, CAG, or other investigative committees. However, every citizen of India also needs to contribute by discouraging small corrupt practices in our daily lives, routines, interactions, upbringing, teachings, mentoring, training, at school levels, college levels, corporate levels, etc.

We should propagate a silent yet effective revolution against such corrupt practices. At some point, we all have been corrupt for something. So let's not blame, punish, or boycott people who indulge in this temptation, but let's cure this disease.

Motivate humane and ethical practices through advertising, teachings, training, and mentoring. Let's slow down in our fast-paced rat race and take some time off to clean our society.

Municipality boards should encourage that 50% of ad space be dedicated to social messages on every commercial advertisement, banner, hoarding, billboard, etc. Publicize corrupt acts of officials, bringing them into public view. Question unethical practices, demand explanations, and request them in writing.

Take the effort to educate ourselves on the processes to be followed for any tasks. Let's not get lazy and pass off our responsibility. These initiatives might take 50 years to show results, but they will be worth it for future generations! As you rightly mentioned, freedom fighters who sacrificed their lives didn't know if India would actually gain independence, but they dreamt. They believed in positive change and acted when it was needed.

I completely understand Bhaskar and Pon's point of view, the helplessness that the majority of Indians feel against corruption, but let's change the situation.

Thanks a lot for reading!

Thanks again, Hussain. I accept your point of view, which comes across as wise and practical.

By the way, I am currently questioning and battling a blatant unethical practice being followed by the HR Department of a leading BPO while hiring through vendors like us.

Regards,
Good HR Associates.

Wow, great work Hussain, Boss, and GHRA. Two things that one needs to understand:

Corruption and Leadership

1. Corruption grows when the people at the top are inefficient. That's why I said in my earlier posts that this needs to come down from the CEO. If you are down the food chain, the chances are that you are becoming bait! It is like a rabbit asking a lion to be vegetarian. To fight a 'lion,' you need to have a better strategy than just refraining from doing what he does. Most people in this forum are not CEOs; hence, it is like preaching to the rabbits.

Educated Society and Rule Following

2. We have a very educated set of people in our country. If you question a person why he is standing in the middle of the road and blocking traffic, he is likely to get back to you saying that it is his right... (Baaju mein se jao na babu... :-)) So, when the overall focus is on the 'short-term' situation, expecting a solution in the long term could quickly become unrealistic! People violate traffic rules. Talk to folks, and they will give you hundreds of 'reasons.' The only thing we should realize is that the only reason is that people are not willing to follow rules.

I met with two incidents where a car rammed into my vehicle. There was a traffic jam in front, and the traffic was not moving. The cops said that you should not have stopped as you are doing risky driving!!! Ridiculous, isn't it? So, the expectation was that I should have taken my car and rammed into the vehicle in front??? And hundreds of my friends counseled me about Indian driving and how it differed from Germany and the US (where I was earlier)!!!

In the end, it is a royal joke. But it talks a lot about our culture. A bribe is like a shortcut (a traffic violation where one often sees cars going in the directions for the reverse lane)... And the cops often promote it!

Bottomline, draw the lines where you feel are okay. And try to support a system that would bring the wrongdoers to the book... After all, we have abused education a little too long. If our earlier leaders have had huge money stashed in Swiss Accounts, well, it also means that there was always a lot of support... In other words, a clean-up should focus on the influence of the position as well.

A good discussion is going on here, I guess. I agree with Nikhil S. Gurjar when he says, "this needs to come down from the CEO," but for totally different reasons.

Even though it's said in Sanskrit: "yatha raja, thatha praja," the current situation needs to be looked at from a wider canvas. Instead of focusing on the 'titular Head,' for a moment, focus on the situation.

Taking the experience which Hussain mentioned about bribing the Police for his Passport Police Clearance, would we blame the Director-General of Police for this situation—since the DGP is the CEO of that department? In the limited context and scenario, it's the Inspector of Police in that station who is the CEO. Taking the traffic violation situation that many mentioned in this thread, again it's the respective Traffic Cop who becomes the CEO… so to say… since he controls in which direction the situation moves.

Applying the same logic to the original topic in this thread, within the given context, it's the HR guy who plays the role of the CEO—not the actual CEO of that company. The same would apply, per se, to any situation we face anywhere.

Rather than focusing and blaming the actual and titular CEO of the Company/Institution/Organization, it may be better if the focus is on the individual playing the CEO role in the given situation—the one who controls the situation swinging either way.

When it's not possible to focus on or correct the Actual CEO ['Bada Raja', if I may call him/her], I am sure the 'chota raja' [the one who is playing out the CEO role in front of us] can be focused on. The difference between two situations—one directly controlled by the 'Chota Raja' and one by the 'Bada Raja'—would be only in terms of the damage done. The scale of damage the Bada Raja can do to the system would be much more than the former because he/she wields far more power—by virtue of his/her position. Just relate this to the current spate of scams and you would understand it.

And as far as I can understand, I think this is what GHRA is doing when he mentions he is part of an effort to trap corrupt HR people—the 'Chota Rajas' in the game. And I think every one of us can do it too—irrespective of the situations one is in—at various levels and contexts. Hussain's ethical stand regarding getting his Passport was one such thing. And, going by my own experiences, I know it's not easy… but then everything that one wants has a price to be paid—whether it's the ice-cream that one buys in the shop or the most tough ethical stand in career/life. It's up to the individual to decide what he/she wants.

Regards,
TS

Understanding the Cut System in the Police Department

I cannot confirm the following words, but I have heard them often from people I feel are reliable. In the police department, some people believe that there is a cut system. Bribes in the departments are passed 'up' the ladder, so it is indeed something to be handled at the top. A "chhota raja" who is required to pay up will not match his expense-to-income equation. He is left with a few options: (a) Complain and expose, which could go both ways, (b) Quit the job, which would render him jobless, or (c) Accept the conditions and get imbibed into the system.

Even if one were to say that this is not true (and I personally have no rational way to investigate and take sides), one needs to understand the relationship better. A situation involving a bribe is more like a predator-prey relationship rather than a boss-subordinate relationship. The fundamental difference between the two is clear (most of you are HR pros, so you know it better than I do). Hussain's example only confirms that. Think of it as a man-eater lion chasing you in a jungle, as opposed to your relationship with your boss. The only way to control the situation is, therefore, to control the predator. This is where the CEOs (the true ones, not situational ones) come into the picture. They are the ones who have adequate weapons to guide the 'predator' and 'control' the outcome of his/her actions.

The other way is to make the prey powerful enough. What Anna Hazare is trying to do is the latter: giving people a 'weapon' to fight back.

A Personal Anecdote on Standing Up

My daughter came to me the other day and said that some boys in her class were troubling her by pulling her hair. She used to come home crying. Her teacher coolly stated that this was a big class and it was not possible to control the class. They have a moral science subject where the first lesson/first page says we should not fight with each other! I sent a few notes to her teacher, but apparently, it didn't stop. Finally, I told my daughter that she needed to fight back. And she did, and now things are okay! The moral of the story is that your principles are as good as your enforcement system. If you cannot enforce justice, people will try to enforce it themselves and protect their individual interests (which could be too diverse to be logically correct from the societal perspective). That is where the collapse of a society begins!

In a society made of civic people designed to respect individuals, if somebody tries to falsely play the 'predator' or the 'boss', one could quickly see a lot of games. And I am afraid we are seeing that. The interesting thing in the Mahabharat is that of tolerance levels: 100 to 5 is the universal threshold for the 'baddies' to the 'goodies'. I guess we aren't there for the war yet, as I see too many good people even now. But we need to put the thread in perspective.

And of course, TS, you would blame the DGP. It's his duty to bring these people to the book. If someone complains to you about someone in your organization, I am sure you would fight for what is right. Ultimately, the CEO is responsible for EVERYTHING! It's like a family. As the head of the family, you are responsible for everything, or would you rather pass the buck?

Dear TS, you are right. Even if the CEO/Head of the Organization is clean and honest, what stops the lower rung from indulging in corruption? A case in point is Dr. Manmohan Singh, an honest person heading a corrupt Government.

Good HR Associates

I completely agree with Good HR Associates. In matters of corruption, HR comes into a clear picture, as HR is now treated as a source of jobs. I wonder, from the moment I started working as an HR, my incoming calls have risen more than inflation. Those acquaintances who never bothered to lend a hand when I was in need are now ready to pay any amount if I pass their candidate through our company's recruitment process. Moreover, it's a deeply ingrained trait of ours to accept such offers, and it's kind of a test for us to stick to our ethics and principles in the toughest of times.

Please identify such persons and keep them away from you because these are the people who will spoil your reputation and even hinder your career growth. Try to avoid that agency itself if you can. Whoever is offering bribes and deploying manpower in your organization, surely their candidates are also in the same category, and you cannot expect quality service from the candidates or the manpower agency. If you have influence in your organization, please blacklist the agency nationwide to prevent them from engaging in any manpower transactions with your organization.

Be cautious of such agencies and stay away from their members.

All the best.

Dear Tonmoy Haldar, Please give me the phone number of those consultants so that I can extract big money from them and then fool them.

Hi K Ravi, We are consultants ourselves and have never paid a single paisa to any HR. So far, we have just avoided such companies and did not take them up as clients. Now, we plan to communicate with these corrupt HR people further and expose them to their organization and the HR community.

We are "taking care" of the corrupt HR Managers. You can "take care" of the corrupt consultants/recruitment agencies.

Regards,
Good HR Associates.

Yeah, let's bring all the corrupt HR managers, consultants, and recruitment agencies to one place and expose them.

Note: I have made corrections to the text for grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors. I have also ensured proper paragraph formatting and maintained the original message's tone and meaning.

Regards,

Dear GHRA, I never used the word "honest"... I always used the words "efficient" and "effective"... There is a difference. Manmohan Singh may be honest, but he is inefficient and ineffective when he is not controlling his own people! I am sure you appreciate the difference. An inefficient leader cannot ensure efficient mechanisms... And if you look at the number of scandals that have rocked this democracy, you know what I mean...

Chhota Rajas and Governance Issues

Coming to the question of Chhota Rajas... Well, if one were to penalize the chhota raja, then it would work. Praja doing that would equate a coup attempt... Like I said, we are not there yet. By silently accepting the situation, it is being made a way of life. But the truth is the way of life is coming about due to the "cost of delayed justice"... or even the cost of a "governance deficit".

Tonmoy, great to see your post. But be careful... Don't let that get into your system. It could have ugly consequences if you do so (especially if your luck turns against you).

Kravi, you might want to come up with a better solution. We are all ears...

Regards

I have exposed many such people throughout my career and have handled them with an iron grip, sacking them straight away. I would definitely continue to do so. However, I do not see it as necessary to go to forums and generate a discussion about it.

If you want to expose the corrupt HR or any other professional in the corporate world, why can't you just do that and be done with it? What is the need to mobilize an opinion? Why is there a need to get an opinion or some kind of written statement or pledges that align with your way? I have a strong conviction and clear conscience against the practice of corruption. I would just put in my efforts as part of my duty and try to get rid of the same.

Kind regards,

Dayanand L Guddin

While you definitely have a point in what you mentioned, I think there are a few aspects/points that seemed to have missed your attention.

Power Dynamics in Corporate Structures

1] Based on what you mentioned, you seem to have some level of power to take action—but that can't be held true for junior/mid-level persons who see what's happening around them (and, in quite a few cases, their bosses are involved in such corrupt practices too), yet they find themselves in a sort of 'helpless' state to effect any correction. When anyone at that level takes the courage to complain/point out, it essentially becomes his/her word against the boss's. Hope you get the point.

Challenges in the Recruitment Industry

2] For those in the recruitment industry (consulting companies), handling/controlling such practices becomes even tougher since it has a definite effect on their revenues. I have had such experiences with even global MNCs, where getting evidence of such instances/practices is 'next-to-impossible'.

Role of Forums in Addressing Corruption

3] This forum comprises HR/Recruitment professionals right from fresher to senior levels. While the senior professionals would have been exposed to such practices, the juniors would most likely be facing such situations for the first time, leading to more of a 'perplexed' state than anything else. This is where taking their experiences to forums like CiteHR for discussions helps them understand the practical nuances and possible ways to handle the situation(s).

Regards,
TS