Jeevarathnam
Sr. Manager Hr/admin
Natraj@sakthimanagement.com
Head - Outsourcing
Glidor
Hr Consultant
Pasupathieswaran
Retired H R Professional
Mohanasundaram_Subramani
Sr Officer Human Services
Ween24
Student
Sayedafzalali88
Hr Manager
+2 Others

#Anonymous

Dear Seniors,
I am about to join an organization. In my 10 years working duration this is my 4th organization, where in same thing is happening that employer will start PF contribution & deduction after probation period.
I believe many of us would have face same problem.
I could never understand what is employers thought behind this policy as PF should start from the very first day of joining.
I am not trying to clarify with would be employer the since it is big opportunity for me , but want to understand why has this been practiced in most of the organizations even after Govt. rule.
Can any HR senior explain me on this from employer point of view.
regards
14th January 2017 From India, Mumbai
Probation period is not termed as employment fully, within this period the employer and employee both has to come to a point to continue or not, i.e the employee is capable to perform his duties as per requirement of establishment and is satisfied with the management, on his positive performance attitude the probation or trainee employee is converted to "employee" and after that the statuary deductions starts,
in probation period mostly stipend is paid in place of salary
14th January 2017
PF is applicable to Probationer as per EPF Act. Stipend is payable only to Apprentices or Trainees and Probationers will be paid consolidated salary or even with Basic, DA and Allowances like HRA etc.,
N Nataraajhan, Sakthi Infogy Solutions Pvt Ltd (natraj@sakthimanagement.com)
15th January 2017 From India, Bangalore
Mr NATRAJ is correct PROBATION is a period of six months or 12 months to assess if the employee is able to cope up with the Organization That is all.It has nothing to do with P F or E S I Even casual is to be covered
16th January 2017 From India, Chennai
Every employee of the organisation except Apprentice who are covered under Apprentice act & consultants are exempted from the benefits such as ESI & EPF. There is no any rule as probation are exempted. As per the employment act HE/She is eligible for all the benefits right form the day 1 of joining irrespective of probation employee or confirmed employee
The reason for not deducting & remitting EPF/ESI may be
1) Due to lack of awareness/knowledge of the HR/Management or any responsible people
2) Management/HR may think as the employee may leave in couple of months so why unnecessarily need to contribute
3) Many HR professional/respective people still think as its additional burden/work load to deduct & remit to the respective department
4) There are many management people as its additional cost to the organisation
16th January 2017 From India, Bangalore
As per EPF ACT. only Apprentice exempted from epf & esic deduction, employer is liable to deduct and pay pf from contractual, probationer and permanent employees the act is applicable from the day one when employee join organization.
only exemption is for those who are out of ceiling means baisc + da is more than 15000rs.
And now from January the Esic ceiling will be 21000rs but esic is applicable in gross salary.
for more details contact me for EPF and Esic consultation.9752620200
for social help to spread awareness.
16th January 2017 From India, Raipur
Except Apprentice all the employees are eligible for EPF even casual employees also.
17th January 2017 From India, Hyderabad
U S Sharma,
You are misguided about PF act and also applicability of laws to probationers. What you have said that during probation period no statutory deduction viz. PF, ESI, PT, LWF should start. Please remember that many persons visiting the citehr are trying to learn about labour laws and you are providing wrong information to them.
17th January 2017 From India, Mumbai
@shrikant Pra
Read my reply once again, if wages or salary is paid then ESI /PF question arise, not on stipend, ............and yes check your payslip very carefully, if the word "salary" or "wages" appear in payment , then obviously it would be covered under ESIC / EPF, even for a single day paid salary or wages is subject to ESIC/EPF contribution.
but
if its marked "remuneration, or stipend" is marked in place of salary, then it does not get applicable,
17th January 2017
If person joins as salary or wage base employee other than Act Apprentice then he will come under PF act.
17th January 2017
U S Sharma
Salary paid to apprentices under apprenticeship act is stipend that does not attract PF. Salary paid to probationer can't be stipend so as not to affect PF deduction on it. Otherwise every unscrupulous employer would have paid stipend to probationer and would have escaped PF deductions during probation period; would have extended probation period. Just by naming salary paid to probationers as stipend, one can't escape from provions of PF act otherwise most of organisations would have done it.
I treat this post as closed from my side.
18th January 2017 From India, Mumbai
@Shrikant
just visiting somewhere and getting some money in lieu of that does not classify as employer employee relation, if they have probation letter, and in letter the word "SALARY" or :"WAGES" is mentioned, then all acts come in force,
There are so many escape points in act, please try to understand.
18th January 2017
'just visiting somewhere and getting some money in lieu of that does not classify as employer employee relation'
Then what clasifies employer-employee relation?
Employee visits "somewhere" and still employer pays her / him?
"Getting some money (from employer) in lieu of that does not classify as employer employee relation"? Then what clasifies employer employee relation?
18th January 2017 From India, Mumbai
professional service providers also visit the establishment and get paid for it,
viz the doctors visit the nursing homes and get paid, aaya ( midwife) attend the hospital and get paid by the guardians of patients,
professors get paid as honorarium for their special classes,
auditor and their staff visits the establishment, on regular intervals and get paid for it .......
there are several type of persons who visit regular and get some payment, like priest, cleaner, pest control service provider,
delivery van driver and helpers visits the establishment more punctual than regular employees
so these are employees for their respective establishments?
18th January 2017
If the Act is applicable all the employees, except apprentices, should be covered if they work even for one day! Shrikant Prabhudesai
18th January 2017 From India, Mumbai
do not like to keep it more long in debate,
contract work agreement is still valid and even central govt engage the people off roll, for years and years,
unless a person comes on-roll , he is external worker, dictionary may be defined always in favor of industry,
18th January 2017
Don’t forget for I’m where the discussion started, let’s not deviate from original query.
19th January 2017 From India, Mumbai
Don’t forget from where the discussion started, let’s not deviate from original query. Hi started about probation period.
19th January 2017 From India, Mumbai
@Shrikant_pra
yes, i am also standing on the very point , the original post did not mentioned that ...........probation was on which term ........ and it was hidden that during probation what type of remuneration will be paid and what statuary deductions will be applicable
also it is hidden that whether the person joining is getting payout over 15k or not ........ so that mandatory or optional clause can be enforced.
just imagine for a probation letter where these terms are missing, and would be grateful if you can share a format of any probation letter .......with these facts hiding, a probation letter mention everything clear that he will get "stipend" or "remuneration",
if some establishment has mentioned it salary or wages, then step forward to labor commissioner, it would get applicable.
the original post maker made a fun, and he converted himself to anonymous now, and we are fighting on no issue .
19th January 2017
Let Check the SSC Jobs Details...
SSC CGL 2017 Notification, Online Application, Eligibility Criteria
19th January 2017 From India, Nagercoil
#Anonymous
Dear US Sharma & Shrikant Sir,
First of all I regret for not sharing proper details. And I believe whatever discussion happened on this post by all of you is proving us knowledge on all aspects and we are learning by it. So please dont consider as if you both are arguing. What ever you both have shared is a knowledge for we readers.
Further as per your query on my offer letter is is mentioned "Salary" with bifurcations Basic, HRA, DA, Conveyance, Medical Allowances, Special allowances and my salary is above PF slab.
But PF part both sides is not mentioned on offer letter and verbally told to me that it will start after completing probation period.
Thats what I was wondering why so. PF should start from very first day in case of permanent employee.
Why a condition it will start after probation?
Lets say after confirmation they will start but should it be from first day or from the date of confirmation/
In that case can I raise voice against it?
What are my rights as an employee in that case?
Please Guide.
20th January 2017 From India, Mumbai
wonderful #ANNONYMOUS
salary limit is above the ceiling limit
at the time of interview and signing the offer letter the employee did not bothered to "raise voice" but accepted it with smile, and i m very much sure that in his /her CV and rejoinders, there is no mention of earlier PF details
there is certain amount added in your salary compartment, as "special allowance", have you even bothered to think about it ? why this is added ? and why this is equivalent or at par slimier to PF amount?
request you all, not to make this platform as complaint box or place to vomit personal grudge expression, let it be useful to share knowledge and benefit of both employee and employer.
20th January 2017
Who has personal grudge? Me? I even don't know you and don't want to know person who keeps on arguing on wrong lines Period! Vomit? Speaks volumes about you.
Salary under PF act means only basic & DA. Now there have been judgements about inclusion of all allowances for PF purpose. But let's not get into all that. If your basic is Rs. 15000 or less per month, employer has to deduct PF from your salary from your first pay. If it is more, it is employer's wish whether to cover you or not.
24th January 2017 From India, Mumbai
@Shrikant & @Sharma I request you to just leave the discussion. The query was only as why PF is not been deducted at probation & I have shared the right views for omitting PF wages at probation.
24th January 2017 From India, Bangalore
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