Hi All,
I am a widow with a two-year-old child. After my husband's death, I collected all the necessary documents and submitted them to his company. Despite being the only nominee, the company is not paying me anything and is requesting a no objection certificate from my in-laws. Ours was a love marriage, and my in-laws were against it. I am sure that if I ask them for that certificate, they won't give it to me; in fact, they may even demand their share. They have already received one of the insurance payouts, which my husband had taken before our marriage, and my mother-in-law was the nominee.
Could someone kindly guide me? I am desperate to access that money as my child's future depends on it.
Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
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I am a widow with a two-year-old child. After my husband's death, I collected all the necessary documents and submitted them to his company. Despite being the only nominee, the company is not paying me anything and is requesting a no objection certificate from my in-laws. Ours was a love marriage, and my in-laws were against it. I am sure that if I ask them for that certificate, they won't give it to me; in fact, they may even demand their share. They have already received one of the insurance payouts, which my husband had taken before our marriage, and my mother-in-law was the nominee.
Could someone kindly guide me? I am desperate to access that money as my child's future depends on it.
Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Pragati,
What is happening with you is heart-rending. I'm quite sorry to note that.
You have written that you had submitted all the documents and the company is not paying you. What documents did you submit, and what was the claim? Was that a PF claim? You have mentioned the grounds for which your company is declining to accept the claim, but are they quoting a specific clause of some law? Have you verified from a lawyer whether their position is legally tenable?
Via media: Is it possible to make overtures with your in-laws? Tell them that the death of their son was a tragedy to you as well. Try building bridges and find out whether they are ready to give an NOC. In the extreme case, forgetting differences, is it possible to stay together? If you do that, it will be in the interest of your son or their grandson.
If they sign the NOC, then the proceeds of the death claim will be used for grooming their grandson. Tell them that they did not partake in the insurance proceeds with you. Therefore, they should not ask for any share. If they still remain adamant, then agree to some share. If they still remain adamant, then give them the threat of filing a suit for your share of the death insurance benefits which they have received. Tell them why they wish to make rounds to the courts in old age. Of course, I do not wish this contingency to arise.
Other senior members may give their opinions.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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8036What is happening with you is heart-rending. I'm quite sorry to note that.
You have written that you had submitted all the documents and the company is not paying you. What documents did you submit, and what was the claim? Was that a PF claim? You have mentioned the grounds for which your company is declining to accept the claim, but are they quoting a specific clause of some law? Have you verified from a lawyer whether their position is legally tenable?
Via media: Is it possible to make overtures with your in-laws? Tell them that the death of their son was a tragedy to you as well. Try building bridges and find out whether they are ready to give an NOC. In the extreme case, forgetting differences, is it possible to stay together? If you do that, it will be in the interest of your son or their grandson.
If they sign the NOC, then the proceeds of the death claim will be used for grooming their grandson. Tell them that they did not partake in the insurance proceeds with you. Therefore, they should not ask for any share. If they still remain adamant, then agree to some share. If they still remain adamant, then give them the threat of filing a suit for your share of the death insurance benefits which they have received. Tell them why they wish to make rounds to the courts in old age. Of course, I do not wish this contingency to arise.
Other senior members may give their opinions.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Pragati,
This is my supplementary post to the previous one. You may hire a family counselor to create a win-win situation. It is in the interest of all of you.
Secondly, let me reiterate my suggestion of staying together. If both parties unite, the grandson will benefit the most as he will learn to live with other family members as well. Instincts of teamwork are more easily imbibed in joint families than in nuclear families. In contrast, if the child is brought up in an environment of separation, indifference, or hostility, he will adapt to these qualities.
What I am proposing is much easier said than done. Nevertheless, if Iran and the US can come together to end decades-long hostilities, then why can't we? The sooner the nuclear deal was signed, the crude oil prices fell, benefiting the entire world. The US and China were hostile to each other from 1945 to 1973. When they ended their hostilities, both countries benefited.
While you may question the applicability of examples from international relations to personal relationships, the underlying tenet in any relationship is harmony. We should strive to achieve and maintain harmony. But for this, both parties have to accept each other unreservedly. What you could not do when your husband was alive or what your in-laws could not do when their son was alive, do it now and pass on the benefits to the next generation! This is a real tribute to the departed soul.
All the best!
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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This is my supplementary post to the previous one. You may hire a family counselor to create a win-win situation. It is in the interest of all of you.
Secondly, let me reiterate my suggestion of staying together. If both parties unite, the grandson will benefit the most as he will learn to live with other family members as well. Instincts of teamwork are more easily imbibed in joint families than in nuclear families. In contrast, if the child is brought up in an environment of separation, indifference, or hostility, he will adapt to these qualities.
What I am proposing is much easier said than done. Nevertheless, if Iran and the US can come together to end decades-long hostilities, then why can't we? The sooner the nuclear deal was signed, the crude oil prices fell, benefiting the entire world. The US and China were hostile to each other from 1945 to 1973. When they ended their hostilities, both countries benefited.
While you may question the applicability of examples from international relations to personal relationships, the underlying tenet in any relationship is harmony. We should strive to achieve and maintain harmony. But for this, both parties have to accept each other unreservedly. What you could not do when your husband was alive or what your in-laws could not do when their son was alive, do it now and pass on the benefits to the next generation! This is a real tribute to the departed soul.
All the best!
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Hi All,
The above said case is genuine. As per nominee rules, the said amount/share which has arrived from the husband has to be given to the nominee (in this case) only. HR also needs to facilitate providing the amount to the nominee according to their records before resorting to court. The nominee can file a case at the consumer court to receive the same if it is not provided by the employer.
Regards,
Srini
From India,
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The above said case is genuine. As per nominee rules, the said amount/share which has arrived from the husband has to be given to the nominee (in this case) only. HR also needs to facilitate providing the amount to the nominee according to their records before resorting to court. The nominee can file a case at the consumer court to receive the same if it is not provided by the employer.
Regards,
Srini
From India,
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Dear Friends,
My heartfelt condolences to the widow and her family. May God give strength to the family to bear this irreparable loss.
Any benefit arising from the employee-employer relationship cannot be taken to the consumer court. The queriest needs to provide more information on her late husband's employment and the dues payable by the employer. She also needs to indicate which nomination forms have been filed with the employer. Different forms of nomination exist under various enactments. Why is the employer requesting a No Objection Certificate (NOC) from her in-laws? Is there a specific reason for this?
I am unable to provide more details as I am currently undergoing treatment. If the queriest provides the information as mentioned above, I will attempt to respond.
From India, Mumbai
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My heartfelt condolences to the widow and her family. May God give strength to the family to bear this irreparable loss.
Any benefit arising from the employee-employer relationship cannot be taken to the consumer court. The queriest needs to provide more information on her late husband's employment and the dues payable by the employer. She also needs to indicate which nomination forms have been filed with the employer. Different forms of nomination exist under various enactments. Why is the employer requesting a No Objection Certificate (NOC) from her in-laws? Is there a specific reason for this?
I am unable to provide more details as I am currently undergoing treatment. If the queriest provides the information as mentioned above, I will attempt to respond.
From India, Mumbai
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Hello Pragati Ray,
While joining the other members in sharing your grief, please mention clearly in this forum what documents you have submitted to the company.
More importantly, did the lot include your Marriage Certificate?
@Korgaonkar--
To the extent I know, once a man/woman has proof of marriage, doesn't that evidence—legally—override the other nominations given before marriage?
@ Dinesh--
Regarding your comments "let me reiterate my suggestion of staying together. If both parties unify, the grandson will benefit the most as he will learn to live with other family members as well. Instincts of teamwork get imbibed easily in joint families than in nuclear families"—
I am not so sure that this will work out as you expect in this case. Having watched such situations from very close quarters, it's more than likely that the kid will grow up being torn between the two poles of affection and demands...mother and grandparents [given the background].
One of them surely has to back out...in the process, taking the brunt of the pain and helplessness. It's tough to give any 'right/wrong' suggestion in such a situation.
And knowing child psychology reasonably well, the kid is bound to grow into someone who either doesn't trust anyone or has very low self-esteem later in his life...I won't be surprised if it continues into his late life too—seriously.
Your surmise about joint families is true only when it's been there since birth for the child. It's tough to even give credence, forget believing, that a child picks up psychological inputs during 0-5 years of age that decide much of what he/she becomes later in life.
@Pragati Ray--
You mentioned "I'm sure if I asked them for that certificate they won't give me; in fact, they will ask for their share"—for all you know, your in-laws may not be the same people after the loss of their son?
Like Dinesh suggested, send someone whom you trust to just inquire if they will give the NOC...let this not look like you are asking for it. Let it look more like the via-media person is suggesting to them on his/her own. Based on their response/reaction, you can take the next step. Just give this possibility a chance—if it works out, well and good. And if it doesn't, you haven't lost anything.
Even if they ask for a share, I am with Dinesh on this aspect...unless, of course, they want 90% of it...meaning a major share.
It's up to you to decide your priority...money or a peaceful life focusing on you and your son's future. Please note that money can always be earned again. Like the saying in Hindi goes: "Zindagi mein kuch paana hai to kuch khona hai". The choice is the individual's...again, nothing 'right/wrong' here, only consequences.
You haven't mentioned if you are working and if your husband was the only son to your in-laws. Both these factors would also determine some response mechanisms from both ends.
And without sounding prophetic, I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of your in-laws contacting you later in life [when they really realize their follies...i.e., they change...which is not possible if all of you compromise to stay together now] to see their grandson...especially if your husband was their only son. Hence, I would suggest you not to 'burn all the bridges'...unless you see clear evidence of them trying to take emotional and psychological control of your child. The ideal situation would be where your son has both you and his grandparents.
All the Best.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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While joining the other members in sharing your grief, please mention clearly in this forum what documents you have submitted to the company.
More importantly, did the lot include your Marriage Certificate?
@Korgaonkar--
To the extent I know, once a man/woman has proof of marriage, doesn't that evidence—legally—override the other nominations given before marriage?
@ Dinesh--
Regarding your comments "let me reiterate my suggestion of staying together. If both parties unify, the grandson will benefit the most as he will learn to live with other family members as well. Instincts of teamwork get imbibed easily in joint families than in nuclear families"—
I am not so sure that this will work out as you expect in this case. Having watched such situations from very close quarters, it's more than likely that the kid will grow up being torn between the two poles of affection and demands...mother and grandparents [given the background].
One of them surely has to back out...in the process, taking the brunt of the pain and helplessness. It's tough to give any 'right/wrong' suggestion in such a situation.
And knowing child psychology reasonably well, the kid is bound to grow into someone who either doesn't trust anyone or has very low self-esteem later in his life...I won't be surprised if it continues into his late life too—seriously.
Your surmise about joint families is true only when it's been there since birth for the child. It's tough to even give credence, forget believing, that a child picks up psychological inputs during 0-5 years of age that decide much of what he/she becomes later in life.
@Pragati Ray--
You mentioned "I'm sure if I asked them for that certificate they won't give me; in fact, they will ask for their share"—for all you know, your in-laws may not be the same people after the loss of their son?
Like Dinesh suggested, send someone whom you trust to just inquire if they will give the NOC...let this not look like you are asking for it. Let it look more like the via-media person is suggesting to them on his/her own. Based on their response/reaction, you can take the next step. Just give this possibility a chance—if it works out, well and good. And if it doesn't, you haven't lost anything.
Even if they ask for a share, I am with Dinesh on this aspect...unless, of course, they want 90% of it...meaning a major share.
It's up to you to decide your priority...money or a peaceful life focusing on you and your son's future. Please note that money can always be earned again. Like the saying in Hindi goes: "Zindagi mein kuch paana hai to kuch khona hai". The choice is the individual's...again, nothing 'right/wrong' here, only consequences.
You haven't mentioned if you are working and if your husband was the only son to your in-laws. Both these factors would also determine some response mechanisms from both ends.
And without sounding prophetic, I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of your in-laws contacting you later in life [when they really realize their follies...i.e., they change...which is not possible if all of you compromise to stay together now] to see their grandson...especially if your husband was their only son. Hence, I would suggest you not to 'burn all the bridges'...unless you see clear evidence of them trying to take emotional and psychological control of your child. The ideal situation would be where your son has both you and his grandparents.
All the Best.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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I fully agree with what Shri Divekar suggests. After all, there is no harm in trying, more so in the interest of the child's future.
As regards the status of nomination after marriage, one has to consult a lawyer. I remember reading a case where the court had decided that the nominee or nomination is clearly a process of smooth transfer of money, but the money has to go to the legal heirs eventually and not the nominee. The nominee holds the funds as a mere custodian.
A S Bhat
From India, Pune
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As regards the status of nomination after marriage, one has to consult a lawyer. I remember reading a case where the court had decided that the nominee or nomination is clearly a process of smooth transfer of money, but the money has to go to the legal heirs eventually and not the nominee. The nominee holds the funds as a mere custodian.
A S Bhat
From India, Pune
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My condolences on the unfortunate death, and may God grant them the strength to tide over this crisis.
A nominee is a person who holds the money on behalf of all eligible heirs.
Trying for reconciliation with in-laws is a good thing, but the legal aspect needs to be clear.
The law of succession eventually governs the distribution of benefits.
This case has a bearing on our discussion.
[S.Sandhya vs The Chief General Manager on 9 April, 2012](http://indiankanoon.org/doc/60917043/)
NOC being asked by the company has no real legal value.
The insurance claim being disbursed to the mother-in-law makes her the holder of the amount on behalf of all other claimants as per the law.
The need to get a succession certificate may arise in case the dispute carries on.
It is a moment of tragedy, and this should unite the family.
Old parents also need to be looked after, and moral rights to the benefits do arise, notwithstanding the law of succession.
I hope things get sorted out, or the family will need to take specific legal advice on this matter, where the full case can be discussed and examined for taking the next course of action.
From India, Pune
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A nominee is a person who holds the money on behalf of all eligible heirs.
Trying for reconciliation with in-laws is a good thing, but the legal aspect needs to be clear.
The law of succession eventually governs the distribution of benefits.
This case has a bearing on our discussion.
[S.Sandhya vs The Chief General Manager on 9 April, 2012](http://indiankanoon.org/doc/60917043/)
NOC being asked by the company has no real legal value.
The insurance claim being disbursed to the mother-in-law makes her the holder of the amount on behalf of all other claimants as per the law.
The need to get a succession certificate may arise in case the dispute carries on.
It is a moment of tragedy, and this should unite the family.
Old parents also need to be looked after, and moral rights to the benefits do arise, notwithstanding the law of succession.
I hope things get sorted out, or the family will need to take specific legal advice on this matter, where the full case can be discussed and examined for taking the next course of action.
From India, Pune
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When an employee is deceased and married, payments are to be made to his wife and children based on the legal heir certificate issued by the revenue department. Usually, when this certificate is issued, brothers will not be included (sometimes the widow mother or unmarried sister will be added). Hence, a No Objection Certificate (NOC) from brothers is not necessary. It is the legal right of the wife. The employer can be informed in writing not to make any payment to anybody.
From India, Tiruchchirappalli
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From India, Tiruchchirappalli
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