Pbskumar2006
Sr.manager-hr
Vikramlamhe
Hr Professional
Swastik73
Human Resource And Industrial Relations
Samvedan
Consultancy_hr & Ir
Kknair
Hr, Ir, Law, Disc. Matters
Shyamali
Human Resources Director
Azing_00
Hr Professional
Vikasdeepa_arora
Human Resource Advisor
Jayasmp
Head - Hr
Vnmnair
Professor
Somusomu1
Hr Executive
Basudeva
Service
Sirisha Reddy
Hr Executive
Shankarji_2k5
Senior Accountant
A.S.Sharma
Service
Jaya_vinod
Hr/recuritment
+3 Others

Hi All,
I would like to have a suggestion on the this topic, In our management we will have to terminate a employee due to non - performance
Is that fair to terminate the employee before he finishes his probation period ( 3 months) without any notice ??
As a HR executive I feel like Management should give warning notice , But management feels that is not very neccessary to do while employee in the probation period
Suggestion Required
Regards
Shekar
From India, Bangalore

Hi,
The conflict is seen between HR (kind?) approach and what must be done in the situation. This has to be resolved by a managerial action only. I may agree with you to take a kind approach-looking at the time frame, but the causes why your management would not wait should be known.
Also, what are the basic terms and conditions of the appointment? These also have a bearing on your ability to act in a particular manner.
Leaving aside the (to me) unknown details of the situation, I would make a very generalized statement and say that technically it is in order to terminate employment of a probationer, for non-performance-before his completion of the term.
Regards
samvedan
November 27, 2005
From India, Pune
Hi,

I think if we can go into the depth of the matter, maybe it will help. An organization does not hire anyone for charity (except if the person is related to someone high!). In this case the candidate was appointed because he was found suitable in some respect.

it is not just termination, but the entire recruitment process and the subsequent period has been wasted. This has resulted in some financial loss also for the organization. If you are to start the process again, it will take time and again the cost will be borne by the organization.

The non-performance of the employee should be probed into and identified. Some back ground will have to be done. If the reasons cited can be solved amicably and the employee can be counselled, then attempts must be made to retain him/her. But if the non-performance is due to the employee only, then it is better to terminate the employee after given an opportunity to improve performance. Convince your management if you feel after counselling the employee that it is possible for improvement.

This is my opinion.

Regards,

Anuradha
From India, Pune
Dear Sekar,
I fully agree with Anuradha that first of all we need to know the reason behind his non - performance i.e whether his non performance is due to him or any external factors which can be ambience, culture or his senior then accordingly actions can be taken. Feedback recieved from him would be of immense help to the Recruitment process and Organisation Climate.
Secondly before going ahead with termination letter please have thorough compliance with the laws. According to my knowledge on this Warning Letter/Chargesheet is must before you go ahead with the termination letter.
Deepa
From India, Gurgaon
Dear Sekhar,

There is no legal bar of terminating an employee during his/her probation period without notice for any reason whatsoever unless a notice period is mentioned in his Appointment/Probation Letter.

Let me add that it is unethical and not illegal on the part of Management not to give a notice period.

From your post it seems there is no notice period given in the letter. You can go ahead and terminate the employee without notice.

Further I would also suggest that you persuade you Management to insert a Notice Period in all Appointment/Probation Letters. It will not only be ethical but also it will give you a breathing space in finding a replacement.

In the end I would like to add ethically there should be an option for extension of Notice period for non performance not below a certain level which should be determined and recorded my a PA board ,for a further period of not more than the original period of probation, and after that termination usually takes place. So, normally an employee should not be terminated for non performance without giving him an extension. Probationers with Perfomance Level below the determined level is terminated with Notice or compensation in leiu of notice.

Hope I have been able to satisfy you.

Warm Regards,

SC
From India, Thane
Hi Somu,
I feel that the person can be terminated during the probation period without notice because both parties can repudiate the contract without notice during that time.i.e. the employee has a right to leave the job without notice.
According to me the HR function of his competency is being determined by his manager after analysing his commitment and attitude...so i think he can be terminated as keeping him would be a waste of money and time.Of course i would recommend an exit interview to find out what happened to him after joining, since he was very promising at the time of the interview.
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
Hi !! As I look at it, there are two aspects on this issue.
First and foremost legal- there is no legal necessity in terminating a probationer but count the notice as per appointment order. Most managements are happy to learn this position.
Secondly, being HRM practitioners we basically follow the regimen that every body can improve and none should be knocked out in pre-conceived manner. The cost of hiring a new hand as well as the time it takes to train yet another hand to this level also are to be reckoned.
You can take take up with your management on the options, the first may satisfy their ego but second should not be lost sight of
From India, Bhopal
Hi !! As I look at it, there are two aspects on this issue.
First and foremost legal- there is no legal necessity in terminating a probationer but count the notice as per appointment order. Most managements are happy to learn this position.
Secondly, being HRM practitioners we basically follow the regimen that every body can improve and none should be knocked out in pre-conceived manner. The cost of hiring a new hand as well as the time it takes to train yet another hand to this level also are to be reckoned.
You can take take up with your management on the options, the first may satisfy their ego but second should not be lost sight of
KK Nair
From India, Bhopal
Dear Froends, I feel termination is the last resort, we should go in the depth of the issue & look why such thing happened ? Hiring & Firing is not a proper solution. Regds, Vikram Singh
From India, Delhi
HI,
If the employee is not performing his duties well, if he has to terminate him either in prohibition or confirmation, first we have to receive a complint letter from the concerned H.O.D. to the HR. Dept. Then HR Dept has to issue warning letter. we have to give three chances to improve his performance, if he failed so, based on the waring letters he can be terminated from his services with one month notice or as per company policy.
Regards
Y.V.Madhava Reddy
From India, Hyderabad
hi!!

This is more of an ethical issue than a professional one. It is upto the department head to understand how to train his team to make them perform to his expectations. For eg. in IT it is almost impossible to expect a fresh BE graduate with absolutely no exposure to programming to start developing complicated algorithms in his first week of duty without any training.

The probation period itself is to help the employer and the employee match each other 's expectations. In this case the employer should wait till the probation period is over and then decide whether to confirm the services of the employee or not. This is what is usually mentioned in standard appointment letters also. So the employee will also be well aware of the fact that he will be asked to leave if he doesnt perform in the given time. If the organisation is not in a financial position to wait for the same, then it should not hire a candidate who will not meet their expectations.

My point here is that the employee should be given a realistic amount of time to perform and this should be communicated to the employee at the time of joining. Terminating an employee during probation is pretty unethical and will ensure that the attrition rate of the company will shoot up and reduce the overall morale of other employees.

This is what we experienced in my previous company. One of the employees was asked to resign within 3 months(during probation) though she was not a below average performer per say (management decision of course). I (as the HR) did try fighting tooth and nail for her retention with the management and I was given the answer that the organisation is not there for charity. I did not say anything further but knew that this will spell further trouble. The employee left with tears in her eyes becoz she was the only earning member of the family. But within a very short span of time she got an excellent break with a leading IT company. What she did was refer all our key players here to her new company. In the process the company lost not only the so called non performer but also most of its star performers. This in fact made the company in a financialy worse position. Had they retained her the loss wouldve been much lesser than what it is today!!

well think about this ...

Regards,

Prathitha
From India, Mumbai
Dear All
The intention of placing an employee on probation is to test his capability to perform the job entrusted to him. Once he is confirmed, he will be continued till his retirement normally. Hence Non performer will be a liability to the organisation till his retirement. if an employees on probation is not performing well, he can be terminated with reasonable notice.
If the new employee is not adjusted to the organisation culture and is not productive to the organisation. Reasons for the above need not be attributed to the employee only. Because of many other reasons like poor induction, ego problems of the senior employees, working conditions, non co-operation colleagues, new employees may not be in a position to discharge his duties properly. Hence before taking a decision of terminating the employee, he should be heard and counselled much in advance and should be given a change to improve his work.
venkat
From India
If an employees is not confirmed after completing his probabtion period which is about 6 months, and continues working without any notice and/or of any kind. His department is also changed but no notice of any kind served.
can he be terminated
From India, Jaipur
Dear All,

I am also facing this problem as a HR person. I realised that we must mention during final selection few things (not entire)

Company rules.

Way of working.

Expectation from him and his responsibilities.

Competition in labour market and oppartunity which we are going to give him/her.

Performar and nonperformar place in the company.

After selection

If get problem in any aspect to whom should he talk etc..

If getting problem in existing way of working then How he wants to work and how it will be good for company (Some times employees want to work professionaly but they dont get response from top management so they become compel to leave the organization)

If and only if non performance due to the employee so we can ultimately send a warning letter to him and finally fire.

I have noticed in my company after hiring existing employees behavior and uncoopeartiveness plus late sitting made new employees to leave the organization .

we have to tell each and everything to new person during final selection what he is going to face so can take decision according to his willing.

Regards,

Rizwan
From United States, Easton
1. Pl. do not terminate unless probation period is complete. A day more or less will not make any difference.
2. State non - performance or unsatisfactory performance during the probationary period as the reason for not confirming / not regularizing the services. Also give reference of the appropriate clause to this effect in the appointment letter issued to the employee.

hi somusomu1
I am not able to comphrend what you have posted..... pls improve on your written communication.....wonder how you are surviving in this hr field with such fantastic communication. take it in right spirits...dnt be spontaenous while posting, think and post so that sentence formation comes out well....
thanks
vinod
From India, Mumbai
Hello,
Courts hve been holding that unless full probation period has expired, it is not legally correct to arrive at a decision on the performance of the probationer.So please take action accrdingly.
Regards,
(A.S.Sharma)
From India, New Delhi
Hi vinod,
I had asked one and all to discuss the issue which i have posted on termination,
You have suggested on my communication I would thank for that ,
It would be also realy great if you can comment on the topic ( Employee termination)
Thanks,
Som..
From India, Bangalore
Hi All,
I have read the details of Termination on Probation period. I had worked with a Software Company . Company has terminate me without notice or payment of notice period ( One month as per Appointment Letter) till today. I make complain against the Company to the Asst Labour Commissioner. Company has not appear before the Conciliation Officer on the Notice given. What are the legal actions to be taken by the appropriate Government as per Industrial Disputes Act and other Labour Law. Can I get the Notice period amount and its interest with mental harassment amount ? Answer from your side will be highly appreciated.
Basudeva Choudhury


Hi Basudev,
If you can fight for your rights you will definitely get your one months salary* Provided you have not got your releaving letter or you have sign any settlement document
Please contact any corporate lawyer this will help you lot in quick solution
Please update the same , we shall also try giving you some inputs on the same
If any inputs required kindly let us know
Thanks,
Somu Shekar
From India, Bangalore
Dear Somu,
I am at delhi,
Can you suggest me any corporate lawyer I am being insisted to resign from company and since last 10 days I was not allowed to enter into office, despite that in the begining of the month itself, I was issued a letter the first in whole tenure of mine in copmany directing me to be transferred to HR Department from September whereas I was working there since february of this year, and the designation was also reduced from Secretary to VP HR to HR Assistant and when I objected they removed me from office. No kind of negetive or positive letter was issued to me.
pls help me to sort out.
contact no. 9818842402
Manish
From India, Jaipur
Dear Manish,
I have no idea about the Corporate Lawyer in Delhi ,
But getting a corporate Lawyer is not a big issue, YOu can discuss your problems with Any Lawyer and ask him to refer to any good or talented Corporate Lawyer
Or else you can go yellow pages, WEbsite, Call to any customer care number 3333333 etc, iam not sure whats the number in Delhi
Hope this info will help you
If possible update me...
Regards
Somu Shekar

From India, Bangalore
Hi All,
In This Concern..We can always see only employer is taking an advantage ...
of hiring and terminating
Why is an employee is not able to take action during his termination, yes its only because lack of information ...
Is employee having a rights to his justice ..Viiewers and Member if you go through this topic many members were suffered with out solution with unslolved querries..
Can we give more light to this post...
Knowledeg grow when its shared...
With Regards,
Somu Shekar
From India, Bangalore
Hi Everyone!



There is a huge gap between what is written(in laws and company policies) and what is practiced.



There are laws which provide us with teeth to take care of erring employers and then on the other hand there is the problem that the case is not resolved soon. By such time the employee looses steam and does not have the patience to go on.



It is for the employee(now ex-employee) to choose whether he/she wants to carry on with it (since the legal expenses will be mounting not forgetting the hassels of appearing when summoned from the court).



Most of the employees or rather ex-employees do not want to carry on due to such reasons. Only if the time time lag between submitting a case and its redressal reduces can people opt for speedier justice.



In those cases wherein employees are forced to resign, they don't leave alone. They leave with the best because an atmosphere of uncertainty, doubt, mistrust and a fear of losing their jobs is created. When such a thing happens employees prefer to leave when the going is still good. At the end of the day people do not quit companies but they leave their bosses.



As HR Managers our condition is precarious because we have to do what is asked(even though the implications may be catastrophic). We tread on thin ice as we have to inform the Top Management of the fallout and at the same time have to sometimes deal with their inflated egos.



MY MANTRA FOR AN HR MANAGER/HR PROFESSIONAL:-(This should help in solving most HR problems)



The only solution to this is to have an open system of communication; a legally binding contract which mentions all terms and conditions, also the rights and responsibilities of both the parties very clearly and what will be done in case of a default by the erring party;

and clear guidelines of what will be followed and last but not the least an honest approach because honesty is not the best policy but the only policy which can be followed.



However, this can be done at a pre damage state alone.



Once the damage is done only corrections/amendments can be made to do damage control. Again in this stage too, open communication will help to resolve the problem.



There are times when an HR professional has to make a decision which is non-populist in nature. Stand firm as long as you believe in it(that it is ethical). Always back it up with reason and logic. Remember that trust begets trust, and that you may have to work hard to make the management buy this.



Regards,

Shyamali
From India, Nasik
Dear Mr. A.K. Sharma,
Thanking you for writing such decision of the court. Kindly give me details of the judgement and Court details. so, i can update in my case. Kindly give me your contact number so, i can contact with you in this case.
thnaking you
Basudeva Choudhury
Mobile no. 9891430567

Dear Somu,
I have not received any reply from your side. As you have mentioined that I should contact with any Legal advisor , this is too difficult for me. because this is too costlier and I have to pay the professinal fee. How I earn? kindly provide me informatioin in this matter as possible as early. Now the status of the case is employer has not attended at the Conciliation proceeding and case transfered to Labour Court.
I hope your reply soon.
Basudeva Choudhury
Mobile no. 09891430567
e-mail:

I Agree with Madhava. Even though the employee is in his/her probation period, as HR personnels, we better give them a chance to improve themselves first by verbal warning and later by written notice stating the period of days where he will be put on observation and monitored keenly. Even then if we find there is no improvement in their performance, then we can go ahead with the termination.
But by considering their future and also not to send negative ideas to the rest of the employees against the management, we better insist him to resign to his positon rather then we terminating. If he creates any problem with out resignation, the final option is termination.
Sirisha Reddy
From India, Bangalore
I would like to ask all of you, if an employee is proper in work and efficiency but he fails to coop up with his/her fellow colleague, then also is it possible to terminate him or ask him to leave on his own will.
whereas he has performed well and all his work is being performed 90%.
I have recently heard a decision of Supreme Court that an employee even he is on Probation, cannot be given termination without giving him opportunity of being heard.
Can anyone give more clarity both on the part of employer as well as on the part of employee.
it is urgent.
From India, Jaipur
Hi, i thing first we have to findout , what is the problem? why he is not able to perform? if required we can provide tranning , after than we can analysis the performance. Regards Prakash
From India, Bangalore
Hi,
as you say he is good performer, first find out he/her problem and sort it. don't think of termination first.
why don't you think other may have given worng complaint ( working politics) because he is good performer.
regards
satya
From India, Bhubaneswar
Direct termination may led to an dispute if he goes for legal matters. For termination a company has to give an warning letter which the person has to acknowledge with his sign then only its valid.
From India, Mumbai
OK
I also agree with some but first do a meeting alongwith the HR, & his / her HOD and that guy and understand the suituation, some time employee going many problums just like ;
1. House problums
2. Family problums in house,
3. Any other problum, like fail in Love, Lost of Memory,
4. Any problums alongwith the subordinate and staff etc.
so, if employee facing any problums and counsile alonwith and clear the issue.
If full team has not found any problums of the guy then issue a advisory letter to non performance and give the stipulated time to the person after that you can issue Stern Warning, after that you can give a chargesheet and then do the domestic inquiry, no body can't terminate the employee without any inquery.
Termination are not a solution, you can give one more chance to from present department to any other department. i think employee may not happy his present work.
HR not a TLWAR, HR means Human, please counsil.
T&R
MK
From India, Delhi
Dear friend,
It is tecnically correct to terminate the service of a probationer during probation period. There is no legal bar. But from an HR point of view it is ethically right to give an opportunity to the probationer to explain the reasons for non performance and if he is able to improve as per the management's expectation, then retain him. Whatever is technically and legally right may not be in the best long term interest of the company. a humanitarian approach may be taken.
Regards
vnmnair
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
Dear friend,
It is tecnically correct to terminate the service of a probationer during probation period. There is no legal bar. But from an HR point of view it is ethically right to give an opportunity to the probationer to explain the reasons for non performance and if he is able to improve as per the management's expectation, then retain him. Whatever is technically and legally right may not be in the best long term interest of the company. a humanitarian approach may be taken.
Regards
vnmnair
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
Freinds,
As per Act it can be done, but before doing this management must be carefull about these as pects:-
1. Offer letter & its wording.
2. Image of the Company.
3. Reasons of his non-performance of the employee.
Regards.
Shankar Kumar
From Madagascar, Antsirabe
There seem to be two distinct views about termination of a probationer. One is that he should be advised in writing about various lapses,deficiencies, or non-performance on his part, and the other is just terminating his sevices by invoking the contractual provision, without saying any thing about his performace.
I would like to know which step would be more legally appropriate.
Cyril
From India, Nagpur
what is the minimum period for probation? If u specify me certain time period, please tell me why the period has been specified? support your view with legal percepts.
From India, Madras
Dear Friends,The Termination of a "Probationer" is a specific procedure. For your clearence of your doubts please go through the attachment..Regards,PBS KUMAR9848499629
From India, Kakinada

Attached Files
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File Type: pdf PROBATIONER.pdf (542.8 KB, 388 views)

Dear,
The employee is not a dall, please think about your self, what conduct the interview ? now you can say the performance is not good? this is the true we can't say all aspect at the time of interview but, both are responsible for this think, and termination is not the way for that,
counsil with the guy and take a stipulated time for change his / her performance
From India, Delhi
Dear friends,
I differ in opinion, a new appointee is given 3 months to perform on certain KRA's as per his job profile or very purpose of hiring him. The job performance will be judged by his superior/boss on certain parameters which are explained to him/ ie the Role he will play. So why a person should be terminated before completion of his probation period, the given to him to perform on KRA's. I think it is contravention of the contract which says 3 months judgement period for a new comer. It is also illegal to terminate a probationer before completion of probation period as per case laws of supreme court and some high courts as well on the same ground that you have not given complete time to the new guy to perform so how can you say before completion of probation period that his performance is not good. He can very much challange your decision in the court of law. So explain the management the process and legal angle attached to it.
Thanks,
Sundeep Wadhwa
From India, New Delhi
Dear all,
This is true that the employees under a probation period should not be terminated as during this period they are under the training period.
but as they are the lability of the company and the company has to take some action upon their non - performance.
so can anyone tell me the procedures one could follow to just intimate them about their non-performance which could probably not result in their termination during teh probation period.
Thanks
Regards
Aarti khanna
From India, New Delhi
Every body has put up their views on behalf of an employee. Can anybody suggest from an employer point of view. Company is investing huge on paying quite a high salary for a senior post and when the employee even after completion of almost 9 months in the company, does not perofrm even 1% of target given to him how should the management react. your valuable suggestion is required. Please note that this post relates to National Sales Manager for a medical disposable company.
From India, Bangalore
Where to find documents for labour laws in India where they have mentioned about employees and probation period? Any Indian sites or Cite HR threads where we can find laws regarding the probationary period and employee relations?
From India, Pune
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