Korgaonkar K A
Ba,llb,mpm,dir&pm,dll&lw,d.cyber
Tajsateesh
Recruitment/talent Acquisition, Career Counselling
Shah01ankita
Talent Acquisition / Consultant - Catalis
Harsh Shukla
Ceo And Md Of 3 Uk Based Mnc's
Lalatendukanungo
Human Resources
+3 Others

Thread Started by #Vidhan1988

Hello seniors,

Please spare some minutes in guiding me, it can be critically important for my career.

I am working with an MNC for last 7 months. Now I have received a very good opportunity and want to switch the company. I sent the resignation by mail. However, the company HR says that I have to stay there for the notice period of 3 months. I have tried a lot but he is not getting convinced.

I am ready to pay the salary in lieu of notice period. I have also sent a mail saying this to the manager (To keep an official proof). However, they are saying that I will have to serve for 3 months and I cannot pay for the notice period.

In my offer letter it is stated word-to-word that [B']the contract can be terminated by either party by giving three month's written notice on either side or salary in lieu thereof.[/B]

My plan:

1. I will send the company another e-mail (apart from the earlier 2) stating that in line of the previous mails, I have resigned and my last date will be so and so.

2. In the same mail, I will ask for the amount of salary I will have to pay in lieu of serving the notice period.

3. If the company replies (less chances), I will pay that amount by DD (to keep proof) and send them.

If the company doesnt reply (high chances), I will calculate the amount to be paid by myself and will still send them the DD, with the mail that 'please calculate the exact amount and accept the DD.'

4. In the new company that I am joining, I will present the printout of all these documents as a proof that I have left the previous company.

I think I am not violating any rules here..

My queries are-

1. Should I make any changes in what I have planned?

2. Can the company harass me or take any legal action that can be a problem to me in the future?

Thank you
29th May 2013 From United Kingdom
Hi Vidhan1988,
Your plan is sound.
I would only add that you also send a photocopy of your offer letter highlighting the relevant lines.
Also you should send a hard copy by registered post.
Whilst, the company has no grounds for legal action, they can make life difficult for you, for example by not issuing relieving letter or giving a good (if any) reference.
Therefore, it is imperative that you keep all printouts and / or correspondence as proof.
Incidentally, should the company attempt to take legal action, bear in mind that you should counter any action by claiming (in the courts) "frivolous action by the company". The courts do not take lightly any attempt to waste the courts valuable time and resource.
I hope the above is useful.
Warm Regards,
Harsh
29th May 2013 From United Kingdom, Barrow
Thank you Harsh Sir,
It has indeed helped me. However, I would like to mention that I am not from the UK, as has been shown on my profile. I am from Pune and I do not know why the profile settings show my location as UK.
As you have mentioned about the relieving letter, I actually do not need to submit the relieving letter as per the best of my knowledge. In fact, even if I do not receive the experience letter from the company, I am willing to let that go, too. However, I am worried if they take any legal action, as you have mentioned; though the offer letter clearly states that I can pay salary in lieu.
Thank you very much for your help and regards
29th May 2013 From United Kingdom
Hi Vidhan,
It does not matter where you are. Good HR practice is Good HR practice, anywhere in the world.
Sites such as this help to spread the Good practice and we learn from each other for everyone's' betterment.
Regards,
Harsh
29th May 2013 From United Kingdom, Barrow
Hi Vidhaan,
Would suggest you following minor changes if it suits you,
1) Instead of a DD give a cheque. It is always better than DD which is just as good as cash.
2) Do not forget to cross the cheque as Accounts Payees Only and don't give a bearer cheque that anyone can encash over the counter.
3) In addition of resending email, send your resignation via register with the acknowledgement slip to have better proofs in your favour if things go bad.
4) Chances of they going for any legal action seems low because of their practice of 3 month's notice and not abiding by their own terms and not ready to discuss early relieving. However may I ask what tenure are you suggesting to serve?
5) Include in your resignation the following line -
"As per the clause no. ____ in the issued appointment letter which states - the contract can be terminated by either party by giving three month's written notice on either side or salary in lieu thereof - I would like to resign and be relieved by {Last working date]. I will be serving my notice period of ____ days and would pay the salary in lieu of it for the balance notice as per the option in the appointment letter issued.
In addition to this would like to ask -
1) Did you mention the reason for resignation on your letter? If so, what.
2) Did your HR or supervisor tell you the reason for why they are not accepting the notice buy out option when they have clearly mentioned it in appointment letter?
All the best.
29th May 2013 From India, Mumbai
Thank you Ankita mam,

1. Yes, if it is so, I will send the cheque. My purpose of thinking to send the DD was to keep a proof that I have issued a DD. I thought that in case if they do not do the transaction of the cheque, I cannot have any proof.

3. Yes, I will send the resignation via register too, however, I cannot understand what is an acknowledgement slip. It is the slip that I will receive when they accept the post, right?

4. In my resignation mail, I wished to serve the notice period of 10 days and to pay the remaining as salary. However, after a lot of discussions, I have stretched maximum and now I am planning to serve for 18 days in total, including the day when I resigned.

The reason I mentioned in the e-mail was 'for career prospects'.

I was told that they need someone to fill my place, so they wanted me to stay. However, I have virtually no work to do and I sit in the office whole day, this problem has been common with everyone who leaves the Pune office.

One more query:

As I said, in the resignation mail that i have sent, I have expressed my last date being after 10 days. Now, if I serve for a week more, when should I send the updated date? (I have verbally informed them, though they have not agreed.) Can I send it just 1 day before I leave? Because, if I send that right now, there will again be heated discussions everyday and I am fed up of it.

Thank you again for the interest you have taken and regards.
29th May 2013 From United Kingdom
Hello Vidhan1988,
Like Harsh & Ankita Shah mentioned, it does SEEM to be a nicely laid-out plan.
Also, you mentioned that "I actually do not need to submit the relieving letter as per the best of my knowledge"--is this your ASSUMPTION or have you checked it out with the new company? Better check it out thru e-mails [NOT verbal]--such decisions shouldn't be based on assumptions.
Reg your being 'fed-up' with the issue being discussed daily, I guess you need to be prepared for such a scenario--part of the game :-)
Reg your query about 'acknowledgement slip', what Ankita meant was to send it thru Registered Post--Ack Due. Your Letter will be attached to another card which the addressee is supposed to sign & this comes back to your address--legally this is the ONLY acceptable proof of sending any document. Just ask in the Post Office--they will guide you.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
29th May 2013 From India, Hyderabad
Hi Vidhan

The reason I said do not make DD is because once you made a DD i guess the transaction is irrevokable.

You can always keep a photocopy of the cheque and when you go for your F&F you can get a signature as a proof that the cheque has been recieved by them.

If or not to deposit it is their personal concern, we do not have to bother it. We did our part by paying the dues.

I believe you would be satisfied by TS's answer. He explained it very aptly.

Please update this scene in your resignation letter. You can modify it as follows -

This is in reference to the resignation I submitted on [Resigned Date].

As mentioned earlier, due to career prospects, I would like to terminate my employment and would be obliged if you can relieve me on a shorter notice.

As mentioned in the clause no. ___ of the appointment letter issued to me, the termination policy states "copy paste the exact words" and would like to take the notice buy out option for same.

In my previous letter dated as above, I mentioned my last working date as [Date 1]. However with the discussions we have had in this time, and with mutual consent, I extend my last working date to [Date 2].

I believe that you would relieve me on [Date 2] with relieving and experience letter to my credit.

Thanking you for all support.

Trust I solved your this query above.

All the best.
29th May 2013 From India, Mumbai
Hello TS,
Actually I am placed with a semi-government company in IT wing. They have sent the list of documents to be given, and there is no mention of any document from the previous employer. (However, current govt employees are required to submit the relieving letter.) Thus, I believe I will not need any relieving letter. Does this sound risky? I was thinking of asking them in phone or by e-mail, but I guess they will say 'yes' if I ask and they will not ask for it, if I don't submit.
Hello Ankita mam,
Thank you very much!! Now I have the format also!!
I really appreciate the help you seniors are providing. Even if I had some vague answers in back of my mind, it helps a lot to hear the opinion from the seniors!!
29th May 2013 From United Kingdom
Hello Vidhan1988,
I get your point reg the List of Docs.
But what if they ask you when you land there for Joining?
However, you do have a point reg asking them now & reminding them to add the Relieving Letter too in the List.
Suggest check out CASUALLY with any employee in that company EXCEPT the HR guys--you should get accurate inputs to make your decision.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
29th May 2013 From India, Hyderabad
Dear Vidhan1988,
Good plan of line by you. Good suggestions by Harsh, Ankita & TS.
It doesn't matter whether it is cheque or DD. I will prefer DD. My intention of making payment is very clear in it. Rather the payment is made from my side. My account is also debited. This may help me in court.
One thing which came to my notice that you mentioned the clause in the offer letter and not mentioned any thing about appointment letter.
If your appointment letter states that eigher side 3 months notice is require and salent on notice pay in lieu of short notice, I am sorry to tell you dear, you can not do any thing. You have no other option but to complete the notice period.
I have seen some companies are very rigid and insist physical attendance during notice period.
My best wishes with you.
29th May 2013 From India, Mumbai
Respected Korgaonkar sir,
I may sound completely ignorant but I do not know the difference between an offer letter and an appointment letter. After the interviews when I got selected, I was sent a letter in mail and the same in hard copy, which contained CTC information and some other rules. I signed and submitted it. I was talking about that letter.
The sentence that was in letter was as following:
"..after completion of probation period, the
contract can be terminated by either party by giving three month's written notice
on either side or salary in lieu thereof."
30th May 2013 From United Kingdom
Hello Vidhan,
An offer letter is the letter of intent issued by the company. It is usually after you have cleared your interview. It states that they would be pleased to hire you and they intend to bring you on board with so and so date.
As a candidate, one has full right to accept or decline the offer made by any client.
Once you accept the offer letter, on your joining, a new letter is released called appointment letter.
It gives details like -
You name
Your joining date
Your Designation
Your probation tenure
You compensation
Basic outline on policies regarding
Office Hours and Working Days
Termination / Separation Policy
Probation Period
Trust this solves your query.
When the offered person, signs the Appointment letter (The subject line would normally be Letter of Appointment or such) the employee-employer relation is established and the rules stated in this letter is applicable to both parties. In case of any discrepency, issues can be escalated to the right authority
30th May 2013 From India, Mumbai
Ankita mam,
Is it possible that both letters are together?
All the contents you mentioned above are there in the only letter I signed. Welcoming greetings are also there (like an offer letter) and CTC, ctc breakup, holidays policy, gratuity and pf, termination and resignation policy etc is also there. It's a 2 pages letter with ctc breakup on the third page.
Also one statement is-
On matters not mentioned herein, you will be governed by the rules
and regulations as applicable and framed. (Probably meaning that other rules are not specified in any document specific to me, I have to check them in the manual.)
Moreover, if the offer letter (and not the appointment letter) states the previously mentioned lines regarding resignation policy, is it still not sufficient for me to infer that I can pay salary in lieu of the notice period?
Thank you in anticipation.
30th May 2013 From United Kingdom
Hello VIdhan,

The two letters usually are distinct. However increasingly it is practiced by many firms to not to issue an official offer letter.

Reason is simple, candidates are more abusing the offer letter than to be relieved of pressure of the job searching. They show the offer letter to other places and seek job at higher ctc. Hence many companies either verbally extend the offer or if at all give, it is not on paper, on mail with only limited information so as not to be misused.

From the information you give, I believe that the letter you signed is appointment letter. I hope the letter was issued in duplicate and you too have a copy of it, please verify. Read the subject line.

As I said, offer letter is only the intent of the company to hire you.

It do not mean that you are a part of the company.

It usually do not have your joining date, just an anticipatory date of bringing you aboard.

Nonetheless, if you mean to ask -

If you are just given offer letter and not appointment letter, can you do away with the notice serving and just give the salary.

Since you've worked for some time, I believe they must have your name on their payroll / mustar / attendance registry.

So it is always better to communicate, negotiate and resign dutifully and gracefully.

Apart, always remember, the people you meet while climbing up the ladder would also meet you when you are falling down. Unless you are maintaining good relation, they won't help you in future. Always maintain good relation and try in your deeds to be as graceful and as much abiding as possible.

Hope it helped.
30th May 2013 From India, Mumbai
Hello Ankita mam,

Thank you for solving the confusion!!

Yes I have a copy of the (appointment) letter.

Actually, I just meant to ask that, irrespective of it being an offer letter or an appointment letter, if the company has given a statement regarding resignation and notice period in the letter and I and the company authority have agreed and signed on it, should I not refer it to check the rules? 

Yes, I understand that I should not spoil the relations but I have no other option than leaving the company earlier than I should have.. I know it's going to create these conflicts but I will just try to make it as less problematic as possible.. That's the reason I am extending the service as much as I can. 

Anyways, from the advices of you all, I guess I should do as I had planned, with the modifications that you had suggested. 

The only query from all this remains to me is, should I send the mail with the revised last date (in the format which ankita mam gave) now? Or just some 1-2 days before the revised last date (to avoid daily confrontation)? I definitely prefer the second option :-)
30th May 2013 From United Kingdom
Hello Vidhan,
[QUOTE=Vidhan1988;2060182]Hello Ankita mam,
Thank you for solving the confusion!!
Yes I have a copy of the (appointment) letter.
Actually, I just meant to ask that, irrespective of it being an offer letter or an appointment letter, if the company has given a statement regarding resignation and notice period in the letter and I and the company authority have agreed and signed on it, should I not refer it to check the rules? 
Resigning usually creates such tensed situation especially in SMBs and when the separation is unplanned or uncalled for.
But it is okay, I believe every employee has a right to decide if or not they want to work with the company. I believe coming to mutual consent and negotiating the notice period will be the best option.
Did you inform your new employer about this situation? By the way had you mentioned your new employer about the 3 month's notice you have to serve?
I believe be a little firm on your decision. Communicate your issues with the HR of the current employment and ask your HR about the issues and mutually negotiate.
Tell the HR you are unable to attend post so and so date as was finalized in the last meet.
30th May 2013 From India, Mumbai
Actually I have been placed with a semi-government organisation. They have not asked for any document of the previous companies. So I thought not to explicitly ask them. Also, they do not have the policy of allowing any flexibility in the joining date.
Actually I am talking daily with the HR manager for last many days but it has proven futile.
If I send him the mail with the revised last date just 1-2 days before the revised last date, can that cause any problem? In my resignation mail I have mentioned a different date and I am going to work for some more days than that date. I have, however, conveyed verbally that I cannot stay more than so and so date.
30th May 2013 From United Kingdom
Vidhan,

The new firm (semi-govt organization) where you are anticipating the joining,

I am sure you must have gone there for interview.

My question to you is this -

1) Did you show your current exposure to them?

In simpler words had you put your employment with your current firm (from where you're resigning) into your experience section?

2) Did you talk of any notice period clause in your appointment letter?

Asking you to submit documents is a different thing and asking you about your notice period is different.

Secondly, just because they have not asked you to submit anything, do not mean that you can do away with relieving letter.

As you said if it's semi-govt organization and we all are very much aware of the speed and work of govt firms, there is a possibility that they ask you to submit your relieving letter post joining and then say unless you submit this we won't confirm you. What would you do in this situation?

See, I am being devil's advocate now and trying to show you both the sides. All that I want to convey is a relieving letter is important proof of your employment and a peaceful relieve.

Another thing, as you mentioned that the new firm is not giving you any flexibility to joining date. Can you elaborate on:

1) How did you get to know about this opening? I mean is this through some recruiter or advertisement or some bulk hiring through entrance test and all?

2) Was there any tentative date for joining shared ever?

3) Not even once did they ask about the notice period? As far as I have experienced, this is one concern for a recruiter / interviewer - how early can you join us. One of the most common questions in the interview.

When did you resign from current employment? I mean the same day that you were told you are selected or when?

See the problem is many times we just have look at our perception and fail to address other's concern. I can very well understand your situation that when you are getting a better opportunity why would you want to be stuck with this one. If you do, that would be an opportunity cost.

At the same time, if we look at company's perspective, they did bear a cost to hire you and will bear a cost to seek replacement.

I am not saying that you are wrong in your approach but just a thing that it would really be a smooth exit if both parties can acknowledge each other's perspective.

Anyway coming back to your case, As I said send your resignation with revised date asap because if you delay it they would say you are informing us today that tomorrow is your last working day.

Do not burn your own bridges is all that I would want to say at the end.
31st May 2013 From India, Mumbai
Hello, in reference to the query, i need to mention here that there are quite a number of organisations who do not accept money in lieu of the notice period though they mention in the appointment letter. The basic reason of doing so is that all employees are entrusted with certain responsibilities which they have to execute. When the concerned employee resigns then before leaving the organisation he has to complete the responsibilities and at the same time explain his profile to the new joiner. The organisation makes good these 3 months to find out a replacement of the resigned employee if at all they do not have at their disposal.

Your strategy is absolutely correct. The organisation cannot initiate any legal action against you. There might be delay in sending you the relieving letter. But beyond that there will be absolutely no problems for you. Nowadays organisations are not resorting to any such behaviour which ultimately tarnishes their image in the job market. The organisation and the employee share a symbiotic relationship, that is they both are interdependent.
1st June 2013
Hello Ankita mam,

1. Yes, I did mention about the current employer during the interview.

2. The interviewers did not ask me about any notice period clause and in fact anything about my company.

During last 2-3 days I asked as many seniors as possible and I got the answer from almost everyone that they will ask for the relieving letter if the employer was a government organization (They have also written this in the list of documents to be given).

However, as you said, I should be prepared for that also, but there seems no possibility as of now that the company will give me the relieving letter. So I guess all I can do it is to collect all the documents regarding my resignation and willingness to pay for the notice period. I can just hope that this will not create any problems.

1. The recruiter hires through national entrance test followed by interview, which I came to know from newspapers.

2. They did not share any tentative joining date, however I got the offer letter (by e-mail) 1 month before the joining date.

3. They never bothered about my notice period. They would just declare results and give us a joining date. If someone cannot join, they will extend the waiting list accordingly.

I resigned from my current employment the next day after I got the offer letter.

I understand the view of the company too, but sadly there is not much that I can do, and the company also has not been moving from their first stand.

As you suggested, I sent the resignation with revised date on the same day of your reply. But in 3 working days, they have not replied anything about it, as I had expected.

Now I am planning to send the same resignation letter by registered AD also. I have some small doubts regarding that:

1. Till now they have not disclosed anything about the payment I have to make. So I should send the cheque/DD later through another registered post later, on the basis of their response/non-response, right?

2. Is it mandatory that my registered post should reach the company before my last date? Is it possible that the company will say that they will consider my resignation from the date they received the registered post only? I have already sent them the e-mails declaring my resignation, from my official mail ID (Though they have not replied to the mails a single time, only replied verbally).

Thank you and regards,

Vidhan
3rd June 2013 From United Kingdom
Hi Vidhan,

I believe you mean to say the company wanted to hire for a position and they placed an advertisement in media (newspaper or others) and you read and applied for the entrance and later cleared the interview.

In this case, surely the company is unsure of the exact dates that they'd bring someone aboard due to several reasons.

Kind of good that they let you know 1 month prior to the joining date so that you can serve the notice period and do smooth exit. (Usual notice period is 1 month)

Yes, since they are hiring in bulk and they already have more candidates then their requirement, they have no need to entertain anybody and fancy their tantrums or problems.

So what should we do? After analyzing the below thing...

Please make the Reg AD soon. It's always better that we send it as early as possible so that we are not liable.

I had a little different scenario. I had to pay rent to my landlord and he refused to take it. After several attempts, what I did was asked a lawyer, drafted a letter, drafted a cheque of the pending amount, took zerox of the letter and cheque, register Ad it to the landlord.

I had put in the letter that I am sending along with this letter a cheque for the rent settlement.

You can as well include foll:

Kindly note that enclosed with this letter is also a cheque dated _____ of amount _______ as salary in lieu of the remaining notice period of ______ days which I would be unable to comply by. The cheque is born on ______ Bank and has ______ cheque no.



Always remember to make the cheque A/c payees and put the name of the company. You can find the name on the salary cheques issued by them to you.

Sooner, the better.

Don't fail to track the records like this -

1) This is to mention that I sent my resignation on DATE via email to PERSON.

2) Since I didn't have written revert for this and only verbal communication happened asking me to extend my last working day from DATE 1 to DATE 2, I resend my resignation with revised last working date as DATE 2 on DATE to PERSON.

3) Again when I did not recieve the acknowledgement of the resignation I sent , I hereby send you my resignation via Register AD to reemphasize the fact that my last working day with the company shall be DATE 2.

A post from senior would actually make it more strong. All the best.
4th June 2013 From India, Mumbai
Hello sir/mam,

My new employer is a semi-government organization. I think they will not go by logical understanding. They will just go by the rulebook. So if relieving letter is needed, they will not get convinced at all by any other means. On the other side, if I don't tell them, most probably they won't ask for anything (because we are not told to bring any document of the previous employment in the rulebook). This is what I have got to know from the seniors.

About the DD, they will most likely not reply to anything (at least till now they have not replied). So if they do not inform me about the amount to be paid, and I do not pay it, will it not be considered like I have violated the rule? ('Either serving the notice period OR paying the amount' was written in the appointment letter).

If I give them the DD, at least I can say that I have fulfilled my obligation as per the contract. Will it affect adversely in any way?

Please share your valuable suggestions on this.

Thank you for your time and regards.
5th June 2013 From United Kingdom
no HR would ever take legal actions as these are not one sided actions. it involves them also to spend money, time and resources, courts are also heavy on frivolous claims by company against employees.
you need to be sure that u r not in any data or intellectual property breach... which could lead to criminal consequences.
5th June 2013 From India, Mumbai
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