huntphani
1
Technical Recruiter

This would be my first query on this forum, I have had an account since a long time but never really had a personal question.

I have two questions, 1 about my current employment where I知 serving my notice period.

Due a demotivating appraisal in Oct, I told myself that I must quit where there is no esteem

I sent out my resignation Jan 2013, US Manager tries convincing me wasting his time as I kept telling him that I知 not at all interested in continuing with the organization.

I requested him to relieve me immediately but he tells me that I have to work for 2 months (notice period), so I told him that he was forcing me to work/come to office for two months, then he threatened me that I will have to show him results or he knows what to do(for eg: not giving me relieving letter, salary, giving a releiving letter that states i was terminated). I have upfront told him that there is no point in forcing me to sit in office, for hich he told "I know your caliber and if you tell me that you are not able to deliver I know what to do".

Now from last 15 days I知 coming to office everyday with no other go, but not working and just surfing the net (Wikipedia, news and stuff). I will serve the notice period for 2 months, as I知 not interested in working for this organization anymore I知 not working but present in office.

My Indian manager has told me that they won稚 pay this month痴 salary as there is no delivery from my end. He told me that they will relieve me soon and help me out but apparently he is playing around.

1. Now my question is that if there is any chance that the company will not pay my salary? If they do so, what is that I must do?

2. While I'm serving the notice period can the company terminate me, meaning can they issue a releiving letter that I'm terminated? Or is it that they have to releive only and not terminate.


How can i work this out?? I'm financially tight (2 lac debt) and in this situation i cannot afford to buy out.

I know what I'm doing is not at all right, but I have no other option coz if i keep working they will make sure not to releive me till the last minute.

Thank you

From India, Bangalore
Madhu.T.K
3451
Industrial Relations and Labour Laws

After submitting your resignation you had requested your reporting officer to relieve you immediately and it was on his request that you are serving the notice period. That means even if you are asked to leave immediately you are not losing anything since it was your wish to get relieved immediately. At the same time you are saying that you can not afford to lose your salary if the management decides to relieve you with immediate effect. You have to chose either of these.

Now regarding non payment of salary for the days you have attended the office after submitting resignation. The salary part of your contract of employment may have two components, a fixed salary part and a variable salary part. Of these fixed salary part is based on attendance which cannot be held due to non delivering though the employer can hold the other part which is purely based on how you perform. Therefore, fixed salary will have to be paid based on your attendance till the date of exit.

Now it is the turn of the company to take a decision as to whether to keep you for two months or to relieve immediately. Since you have already requested that you may be relived immediately you can not ask for the remaining days salary. If,on the other hand, while submitting the resignation itself you had informed that you will remain for two months (notice period) and then the company takes a call that you will be relieved immediately then the company's act of relieving you without allowing you to work for two months could be taken as if they are terminating your service and in such a scenario they would have been liable to pay you the salary for the remaining days. But in this situation since you had asked for an early relieving they can relieve you earlier without paying wages for the remaining days but restricting the salary upto the days you have attended the office. In either case, the fixed part of salary is payable to you without fail.

Regards,

Madhu.T.K

From India, Kannur
tajsateesh
1626
Recruitment/Talent Acquisition, Career counselling & Startup Advisory Services

Hello Huntphani,

Further to what Madhu mentioned/suggested, there are different ways/angles to view your situation.

First of all, pl confirm if you had any other job IN-HAND when you resigned?

Next, I think you MISJUDGED the whole situation--you resigned just because you got a bad Review/Appraisal. There seems to be a possibility that you DID fare badly [based on the company's set of parameters]--your US Manager's words "I know your caliber........." seems to suggest that it's YOU who seems to be missing out the larger picture. No Employer tries to convince [like you said 'wasting his time'] UNLESS he/she is convinced himself/herself that the resource is worth being given that kind of time.

Coming to your line 'I know what I'm doing is not at all right, but I have no other option.......'. In ANY & EVERY situation, there will ALWAYS be MULTIPLE OPTIONS--whether one wants to take the other options or not is upto the individual. Just because he/she doesn't want to even look @ the other options doesn't make them vanish. In your case, it's YOUR choice to consider or not the other options.

Rgds,

TS

From India, Hyderabad
Dear huntphani,

Out here it seems there's some attitude issue. Just coz you were not able to achieve your desired appraisal figure you cannot put the company at blame. There are several factors involved & one of which is your performance.

I also fail to understand that how is lower appraisal connected to serving notice!! This seems like you are on to take a revenge with the company - purely unprofessional. In case you are not happy with the appraisal, best option could have been to opt for some other opportunity & leave this organization on agreed terms at the time of appointment. This will also preserve your dignity. Who knows you might fall back to this company for BV.

You need to check your tenure with the company, kind of role you are into, contribution you've made. Talk to your manager that what has affected your appraisals most. This could have been the right attitude towards your work may it be here or anywhere else.

Rest, Madhu.T.K has given you the solution to your query.

From India, Ahmedabad
huntphani
1
Technical Recruiter

@ Madhu T.K Highly appreciate your response. You perfectly understood what my question was, and the answer were right on the spot.

@ Tajsateesh- Yes I have had another job in hand prior to resignation. Perhaps, I知 not looking at the big picture, he meant it like growing in the same organization and more but I really would not want to grow in an organization which is not 兎mployee friendly. And it really annoys when they call you in on every Saturday to work, trust me I知 not the only guy here annoyed with the way things work. A guy with less amount of experience, wrong attitude towards colleagues, and the same delivery gets a 45% hike just coz the CEO knows his name and you on the other hand who brings a smile on your colleagues face, helping hand to anyone and everyone with the same delivery gets a 5-8% hike?? And now the manager who is your friend comes to you tells you that he got the 45% hike coz the Boss knows him well. With this kind of structure I really don稚 think I must continue here. People(my seniors) who have over achieved and have been with the organization got 10% max. I have been trying to look at a big picture in every which way, but I don稚 get to see any. There are 3 resignation following mine, 2 people just left the organization without any intimation(this is why there are relieving me). I知 not following them but just telling you as an example. In short, the Indian manager wants to control this office, the US manager doesn稚 want to let go of the control he had from the last 8 years, in between we get grilled. I知 not a guy who runs behind money I知 joining an organization which is paying me just Rs1000 more than the money I知 making

Completely agree with this 的N ANY & EVERY SITUATION, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE MULTIPLE OPTIONS--WHETHER ONE WANTS TO TAKE THE OTHER OPTIONS OR NOT IS UPTO THE INDIVIDUAL will sincerely take this into consideration not just regarding this employment but in every which way of my life.



@ Hiral Mehta

Attitude issue? No I don稚 think there痴 a problem with any of our attitude I mean me, or the managers. Because we all want to see things work the way we want.

I am aware there are n number of factors that are involved in appraisal. If you are not happy, you just move on. Just to let you know, my manager or the US manager has never ever pointed out the performance(revenue generation) coz they totally get what I知 capable of and they wish that I could continue. Let痴 just say the company is ready to give me 50% hike I still won稚 stay back.

的 also fail to understand that how is lower appraisal connected to serving notice!! please tell me which sentence that I wrote failed your understanding, I would like to correct it for you.

Revenge on the company?? You must be kidding me, I fail to understand what made you proclaim this. If there was any chance that I could take revenge on anything in my life I rather let it be. No employee can take revenge on any company, you get paid to do the work, if you think you are under paid/cheated you just have to move on. Oh come on, we are all grownups I don稚 need to say this.

I agree with your third paragraph totally! been there done that.

No offense, How did you read my query? Thinking that I知 an employee of your organization? Did you want to counsel me or something? You totally went out of context analyzing and criticizing the whole of my query, look at the stuff you have put in bold attitude issue 電ignity 土our performance. I知 totally perplexed that my query to you looked like a question to a therapist. I知 gonna ask a PF related question very soon, please help me out there

From India, Bangalore
It is never a good practice and decision to burn the bridges behind you when u leave an organisation. Though legally company can do nothing if your productuvity is nil during the notice period other than not paying you if payment is officially linked to measurable productivity, it leaves a bad taste on both sides. Company can make your life miserable by foul mouthing with your potential employers, giving you a poorly worded relieving letter, socially isolating you during the one month period and thereby psychologically destroying your self esteem and self worth,...

I would also say that it makes no sense for the company to force someone to come and mark attendance during notice period as it is a demotivator for other employees,.....it spoils the orgn. atmosphere. You should have parted even when you realised that you and the company are not going well for whatever reason. It is never a good behaviour and practice to spoil relationships because you cease to work for someone. Both parties can bad mouth each other, but the price you pay as an employee will be more, as generally organisations are better equipped to handle your foul mouthing. It looks like an ego clash and attitudinal problem bet. both of you. Would suggest you just forget the incident and keep moving ahead than let this isolated incident weigh on you and spoil your future.


From India, Bangalore
one of my friend went through the same situation in a reputed leading pvt new gen bank.H e joined in a nice position but all he was made to do is sell life insurance.So when his probation period got extended citing below performance which he definitely knew was not he decided to move on.But before that also he was dissatisfied with ill mannered top boss,no leave allowed citing work pressure while older employee were taking all benefits.There was groupism,nepotism,made to work beyond working hrs,unachievable sales targets so he decided to leave.But he was forced to do sales even in notice period.So what he did was attend office on time.went out citing sales call after 1-2 hrs,made his mobile not reachable.Top boss said he will terminate but he just kept silent.At the end of the notice period,he submitted his id card etc-wrote a scathing note to HR in exit form online & after 15 days he received his full 1.5 months salary due along with relieving letter.So what i want to tell you is that co has to pay full salary unless performance component specified.Try not to burn bridges if possible & if you are not satisfied with appraisal talk with HR(my frnd did talk with HR) & if nothing comes out do consider another co.But why join another co at Rs 1000 hike???Don't show your desperation to join when giving interview.You would have got atleast 20% hike.Morever who knows the grass is greener on the other side?If at all you want to serve notice period then do your work sincerely coz you expect to be paid for it.Unless you had been harrassed to leave one should do one's duty & leave on a good note.A person who is in notice period cant be terminated so dont worry about that unless you are absconding.
From India, Bangalore
saswatabanerjee
1967
Partner - Risk Management

Ah !

You are reading the situation all wrong and

You are going to get I to trouble,

1. Yes, the company can and will hold back your 2 months salary

If you are coming to work and not working, you are surfing the net, etc, they can very easily refuse your salary on grounds you did no work and that you did not obey instructions from your managers to work. You will be able to do nothing on that

2. They can terminate you.

You have resigned. True. But if they decide to issue you a termination letter instead of your relieving letter, what can you do ? At best you can show people your resignation letter. That's all. If there is a signature with date, some will believe you. If the comany gives termination letter with a back date, then younwill have more difficulty in explaining the situation.

Think again, they can terminate you an the last day and refuse to give you 2 months salary on the ground you have not done work. I am sure they have enough evidence that they asked you to work. They probably have your logs showing you were surfing non work,sites.

In case the new company does a background check, you are n bigger trouble. Cause you will get a very negative feedback.

Oh yes, your pf is going to get stuck too.

They will make you run around for it, it's very easy.

I stead of doing work in your new company, you will be spending time in that also

You really have an attitude problem.

You think the performance is good. But obviously your boses think differently.

All you had to do is complete your notice period properly. You only had to work normally during notice period as you worked earlier. Instead you sit in office and think the company will / should pay you. You have created for you a situation where none existed

From India, Mumbai
Mr Saswat,
Once an employee has resigned co can't terminate you except on disciplinary grounds.Yes they may with hold illegally your salary but that you can fight too.Morever you should be aware that PF is not the property of co.It is the earning of the employee.If co refuses to process your PF you can approach PF with the complaint-which they will enquire & if found true will take action against co & process your PF.Even if there is notice period due amount it cant be deducted from PF.If co can make run employee then employee can do the same to HR too.I am not telling dont do your work but HR is not there to deny once dues but there to settle matter amicably.

From India, Bangalore
saswatabanerjee
1967
Partner - Risk Management

Sid,

Lets look at the practical side of the matter :

1. If I issue you a termination letter instead of a relieving letter, what will you do ? You will file a case against me in labour court ? Go ahead !! The employee has not proof that he has resigned and not been terminated. Even smarter would be where the termination letter is dated a day before his resignation.

2. If you are sitting in office and not doing any work, and you are refusing to do work and i have proof of it, I do not have to pay it. Further, if i have proof (logs) that you are doing personal work and surfing the internet, i have full grounds of initiation disciplinary action and withholding your salary. You can go and complain to anywhere you want, there is little chance of me being ordered to pay you.

3. For PF, i will refuse to sign the form, you can do what you want. What will you do ? You will write a complain to PF Commissioner, He will ignore it. Then you will have to go personally 4 to 5 times and perhaps he will send a notice. I will give a reply (he never came to me for signing, he absconded, etc), you will go another 4 to 5 times, in then perhaps after another notice, i will sign it. Or you will get it signed from a banker, etc. Further 6 to 10 trips will be required. (The point i made clearly in my post : you will spend time running after this instead of concentrating on your new job)

HR is not there to help any employee who is trying to defraud the company. They are there to help the company. When someone thinks he can sit and do nothing, HR can very well hold back all the things otherwise due. HR will do what the management asks it to do (within the confines of the law or even stretching it) as it knows which side of its bread is buttered.

You missed the main point in my post. There are ways to do things without raising an unnecessary conflict. If you raise a conflict and think you can win and that the company will simply fall on its knees and give you everything, then you are in for a surprise. If someone was to resign (say if i was in his place), I would simply resign, tell them i have another job and not interested in staying, give my points in exit interview if the company has, and leave. If the company is insisting on notice period, i would serve it, do my work normally there as i had done in previous months. There is no need for me to be stupid and refuse to do work because i have not been relieved early.

From the attitude of the concerned manager, it is very clear : the company is not interested in giving in to the OP's way. They are annoyed that he is not working in the notice period. And they are going to hold back things. Even if he can get his money, it will be after a lot of effort (and a huge delay) and significantly diverting his mind from his new job to the old matters. Few of the new employers will tolerate such things from their employees and he will have problems there also.

And yes, think of what happens when (if) the new employer does a background check. Need i say anything more ?


From India, Mumbai

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