Dinesh Divekar
Business Mentor, Consultant And Trainer
Skhadir
Strategic Business Management Includes Revenue
Manishsawankar
Hr Executive
Abhishek T
Behavioral And Soft Skills
Shahnaz76
Trainer
+1 Other

Dear All,
Outbound training is a buzz word now in all the corporates which takes us offsite rather having inhouse training.
It is also important the company hire a good facilitator who can assess the results of such activities. How we can assess a good facilitator? What is the test to assess such facilitators?
Thanks
Manish
6th June 2011 From India, Nagpur
Dear Manish,

Employee performance depends on so many factors. Of that one factor is individual knowledge and skills. To build those skills and knowledge, company's conduct the training programme. Outbound training is one such method. However, it is more fashion or fad than requirement.

In this very forum, I had challenged HR/Training professionals or Outbound trainers to provide evidence of the effectiveness of the outbound training. None came forward. In my personal experience I can say that effect of outbound training remains for a month of so and thereafter it diminishes.

Training companies provide this type of training because of the market demand and they don't sell because their client actually needs it.

I recommend you to re-consider your decision. However, if you have rock solid belief on outbound training then you ask the outbound trainer to provide evidence of change that his/her training brought in, how this change was measured and how long this change lasted.

Secondly, from your side you need to do homework and give this trainer measurable goal statement for this programme. You must mention what is that you wish to increase or decrease and by what per cent? On what parameters you had done this measurement? Examples of this are as below:

a) Employee Satisfaction Index is ____ % in my organisation. Post training, I want to increase it by ____% I will do measurement after ___ months.

b) Losses caused by conflict in my organisation are ____ % of revenue. Because of this training I want to decrease it by ___% I will do measurement after ___ months.

c) Index of decisiveness of managers is ___ on a scale of 10. I want to increase this index by ___ points after this training. I will do measurement after ___ months.

Find out what solutions trainer gives and then do the selection.

Second method of selection is our age old Kirk Patrick Model. But then here your role is far more than trainer's as trainer is responsible for Level I only and from Level II to Level IV, you will be responsible.

By the way, recently there was article in CNN on employee training. Check the following link to read it:

Company training programs: What are they really worth? - Fortune Management

Ok...

Dinesh V Divekar




.
6th June 2011 From India, Bangalore
Dear Manish,
By the way similar question was also asked in another forum LinkedIn - World's Largest Professional Network Click here to read my views.
Ok...
Dinesh V Divekar


.
6th June 2011 From India, Bangalore
Dear Dinesh,
Thanks!
Well, I think that outbound is more fun than learning. However, the experience gained by it is so intense that I do not want to deny its effectiveness. Can such intensity be created by inhouse training program on team and leadership?
Regards
Manish

6th June 2011 From India, Nagpur
Dear Mr. Divekar,
I would like to differ in case of OBT. I have been conducting OBTs' since last 2 years and have conducted it 4 times for India's largest corporation, and about 10 times for many other known PVT. and PSU companies. I strongly believe that learning gets infused more deep and intense through OBT.
Imagine, you are explaining David Kolb's experiential learning cycle on white board in classroom; on the other hand explaining it through OBT activity; I believe it is easy to comprehend the concept by actually doing it on OBT. GRIP model can be well explained through OBT.
What's ur opinion?
Regards,
Prof. Abhishek Tiwari
7th June 2011 From India, Madras
Dear Manish,

I would strongly recommend to you to read a book by Udai Pareek who has done research on this and published his findings.The basic purpose of training is to inspire and motivate participants to action. Facilitators use so many tools to do this. Some use a combination of tools to get them inspired. But the participants also have a duty. Like in army, where they grill and regular practice is done, the participants also should be provided an environment where they have to practice and do this as a regular ritual. Then only it can be pushed into the subconscious mind and it becomes a habit. But are the organisations providing this type of environment to the participants after training? Many of the top boss even do not ask the employees who have undergone training whether it was useful and can be implemented at the work place? They expect magic immediately which doesn't happen. The trainer, trainees as well as the organisation have to join together to make things happen. Expecting from the trainer to produce the results is not a good idea. The organisation has a responsibility to create a conducive atmosphere to the participants to implement learnt things in their organisations. But how many do this? Unless they also join nothing worthwhile can be expected. And blaming the trainer is not a solution at all to this problem.

A cricket or hockey coach can teach how to handle a spinner or shoot a penalty corner two or three times, but it is the player who has to sweat and practice and produce the result because he will be the person playing on the ground. Not the coach.

M.J. SUBRAMANYAM, BANGALORE
7th June 2011 From India, Bangalore
Thanks all for your reply!
By the way, the discussion is shifting towards effectiveness of OBT and not focussed on assessing a good OBT facilitator.
Anyway, let's first discuss about effectiveness of OBT. Forum members, please share your views, experience on it.
Regards
Manish
7th June 2011 From India, Nagpur
Dear Prof. Abhishek Tiwari,
Would you mind to share the effectiveness of the OBT? Please provide details at least one evidence out of 14 OBT assignments that you had on Kirk Patrick Model or any other model.
Thanks,
Dinesh V Divekar
Dear Mr. Divekar,
I would like to differ in case of OBT. I have been conducting OBTs' since last 2 years and have conducted it 4 times for India's largest corporation, and about 10 times for many other known PVT. and PSU companies. I strongly believe that learning gets infused more deep and intense through OBT.
Imagine, you are explaining David Kolb's experiential learning cycle on white board in classroom; on the other hand explaining it through OBT activity; I believe it is easy to comprehend the concept by actually doing it on OBT. GRIP model can be well explained through OBT.
What's ur opinion?
Regards,
Prof. Abhishek Tiwari
7th June 2011 From India, Bangalore
Dear Manish,
Having rock solid belief is one thing and providing evidence is another. You say that "the experience gained by it is so intense that I do not want to deny its effectiveness." We do not conduct training for gaining intense experience but to increase organisation's revenue or reduce operational expenditure.
I am yet to come across with any case study showing effectiveness of the OBT on these two counts. If you could provide it, I will be happy to change my opinions.
Thanks,
Dinesh V Divekar
Dear Dinesh,
Thanks!
Well, I think that outbound is more fun than learning. However, the experience gained by it is so intense that I do not want to deny its effectiveness. Can such intensity be created by inhouse training program on team and leadership?
Regards
Manish
7th June 2011 From India, Bangalore
Dear Manish,

We can discuss as to how OBT can be made successful. I feel life is a big EL platform. Just that we hardly devote time to reflect and conceptualize!

My experience says that many participants go in for OBT mostly with mixed motives. Sometimes the bosses / HR want it that way and sometimes it just happens that way as the facilitator wants a 4.5+ report!

I sometimes recommend a trip to the Essel World, ending in a good dinner and drinks and retire in cozy AC rooms if one can afford it. We have to understand the basics of Outbound Training first! And then set our expectations. I have seen 400 participants in something like a sports event together and they call it OBT!

I am talking on this at NMA (Nashik management Association) soon.

In my opinion following are the qualities of a good facilitator. I am still trying to be one fully myself! They are not in order of priority.

1. High energy level. Good language. Humor. Patience. Experience.

2. Minimum talking time. Most trainers love their voice.

3. Follow the “Here and Now” policy. Don’t tell stories. Compare companies.

4. Generate maximum discussion from what happened during the activity.

5. Do not participate in the activity or show excitement or get involved.

6. The activity is not important ignore those tricks and ways to do/ solve an activity.

7. Note the behaviors. Need be make notes use these as data subsequently.

8. Note the group dynamics. Note patterns. Try noting changes in individuals.

9. Don’t get personal. Don’t get sarcastic.

10. Good knowledge. Use theories sparingly only when very necessary or demanded.

11. Guide the group as per the expectations.

12. Try and gel with the group, don’t even sit in a manner that spots the trainer out.

13. Group size. If it’s learning then 20 is large enough for one facilitator.

14. Fun is a part of learning in OBT but let it happen automatically.

15. Make notes for self for self improvement.

16. Give time to participants to absorb.

17. Plan the activity as per some expectation. Change if on the spot situation demands.

18. Make a check list of the possible outcomes. Keep it handy and keep checking it at intervals.

19. The truth in the eyes of the facilitator. Real life examples. No bragging/ lies please…

20. Do not get responsible / involved in issues like administration and food. As a trainer demand good administration. Maximum attention to facilitation.

Thanks. You are welcome to get in touch with me at banerjee_utpal@ rediffmail.com or 9403511542.
8th June 2011 From India, Nasik
Dear Manish,

I refer to the discussion above and I must say that I completely agree with Dinesh. The discussion has shifted to the effectiveness of OBT because more than deciding or deliberating on the efficacy of an OBT facilitator, one should first consider the efficacy of the OBT itself.

According to my past experience, typical OBTs get participants to perform dare devil stunts and derive assumptions of their personality based on performance. I have come across sessions where participants are asked to engage in rock climbing or water rafting and when certain people refuse, analysis drawn is that they may not be good team players, unwilling to take risks, etc.

I feel that the intense experience you speak of can definitely be generated in a classroom as well, speaking of the same concepts, with the use of Psychometric instruments. The insight these instruments give you is immense and they can be used to explain concepts like leadership and team building in a classroom setting or an OBT, which would help the facilitator be more accurate with his/her analysis and for the participants it would be a wonderful learning experience of certain facets of their personality that they might not be aware of. Without the use of these assessments, OBTs are usually reduced to fun and frolic and the learning forgotten within a few days.

Regards,

Shahnaz
14th June 2011 From India, Mumbai
Dear Shahnaz,
I like your idea of using Psychometric instruments while training!(Dinesh, your views please on this.)
Could you please tell me which Psychometric instruments are useful for various training needs?
Thanks
Manish

14th June 2011 From India, Nagpur
Dear Manish,
There are lots of such instruments in the market. There is the DISC, and then there are a battery of instruments by the assessment world.
You can look these up on the internet. They are based on the work of noted Psychologists like Carl Jung, Dr. William Marston, etc. I have recently undergone a certification program for these assessments. You can visit these website links for further information on these assessments:
The Assessment World <link updated to site home> ( Search On Cite | Search On Google )
About Us <link updated to site home>
Regards,
Shahnaz

15th June 2011 From India, Mumbai
Dear Manish,
You have rock solid beliefs on the means and not ends. May I remind you that means are not ends? Outbound training, psychometric tests are all the means and not the ends. A golden or silver ladder does not take you to a greater height. In your case you are dismissing in-house training as iron or wooden ladder and hence doubting on its capability.
Please clarify first what end results you expect and then search for the means. This end result should be measurable.
If you look at Indian economy, India languished till 1991 because of concentration on socialism. Our the then learned rulers never understood that socialism was means and not end. Social upliftment or emancipation of masses are the ends and these are measurable too. Socialism was never measurable.
The erstwhile Soviet block collapsed because their concentration was on practising communism and not competition with EU or American countries.
Ok...
DVD
15th June 2011 From India, Bangalore
dEAR mANISH,
AFTER seeing some of the responses to your queries, I wish to caution you regarding too much fun or games in training programs. It is just like watching a serial in TV, where the story will be of 10 minutes duration, but ads will occupy 20 minutes giving a false impression that the serial is of 30 minutes duration! This is where the modern training programs and trainers are moving. They make the training fun filled, , humorous, time-passing, but ultimately the participants ask, "what is that I am taking home or to my organisation at the end of the training?", in most cases the answer will be "very little". No doubt the training programs should be full of fun, filled with meaningful and useful activities, but in majority of the cases the projection of the program will be very attractive, bewitching but content will be almost zero. So one has to carefully evaluate before making a decision in this regard.
M.J. SUBRAMANYAM, BANGALORE
15th June 2011 From India, Bangalore
Dear Mr. Manish Sawankar
I had gone through your query and excellent views/suggestions/comments posted by distinguished members of this community. I second to Mr. Dinesh and other members posting relevant information.

We want to measure everything but it was just limited to PAPER or QUESTIONNAIRE based on models or self designed as per requirements. Its just like a NUMBER GAME. Many ORGANISATIONS are trying their best in CAPTURING LIVE/PHYSICAL CHANGES(FUNCTIONAL/NON-FUNCTIONAL and PROPORTIONAL TO TRAINING OBJECTIVES) NOTED IN EMPLOYEE(S) THAT HAD SUPPORTED SELF GROWTH FACTORS AND ALSO ALIGNED WITH ORGANISATIONAL GOALS, RESULTING IN ACHIEVING DESIRED PRODUCTIVITY/OUTPUT.

The surprising factor is that, You will also find employees(superiors) those who had been assigned an responsibility to evaluate their subordinates/team members POST TRAINING EFFECTIVENESS, they themselves are unaware "what has to be measured?" Why don't you treat SUPERIORS or EVALUATORS as FACILITATOR?

I am IN-HOUSE TRAINER and i haven't created POST TRAINING EVALUATION FROM - MEASURING EMPLOYEE EFFECTIVENESS ON JOB. I am more interested in AGENDA OF THE TRAINING MODULE & its OBJECTIVES on which EMPLOYEES NEED TO BE TRAINED or THEIR KNOWLEDGE BASE TO BE ENHANCED, OVER PERIOD OF TIME AND HOW TO CORRELATE WITH EMPLOYEE OR ORGANISATION'S GOALS.

Post Training, i am only interested to receive specific/precise feedback from EMPLOYEES in their own language, stating their HONEST VIEWS proportionate to the TRAINING OBJECTIVES aligning with a) ENHANCEMENT IN EMPLOYEE SKILLS/KNOWLEDGE BASE and b) ORGANISATION GOALS. OUTCOME should benefit both. My total concentration is on EMPLOYEE and everyday i motivate them to think about CONTINUOUS SELF DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.

I would suggest you to create your own TEST rather depending upon any modules available ONLINE. You can study those module and understand the process rather just replicating it. The more you spend time in preparing SELF ASSESSMENT TOOLS the more you will succeed in understanding HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY/MENTALITY/ATTITUDE/BEHAVIOR/LEARNING STYLES and kindly avoid pushing things TOO HARD.

At times, psychometric test had presented wrong results because whatever submitted by employee is not found proportionate to his/her ACTUAL LIVING STYLE either at WORKPLACE or in PERSONAL LIFE. I would love to say that MOST OF THE EMPLOYEES ARE VERY SMART.

With profound regards
15th June 2011 From India, Chennai
Dear Dinesh,
Thanks for your wonderful example! I am really looking at you as my mentor!!
I am not only looking for the means. I just wanted to get clarified the effectiveness of OBT and its facilitator. I am no way opponent of in-house training program. Also I do not favour any particular HR intervention. As an HR business partner, I look for the business results by proper HR interventions.
I thank you and look forward for your continued guidance.
Manish

15th June 2011 From India, Nagpur
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