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Attitude is everything???
Is attitude the "be all end all" in life?
Is attitude the most important thing to be considered during recruitment, career development etc.
Is this what is of utmost importance even in a sales job where "numbers" mean everything?
Please see the attached presentation also before starting the debate
Thanks
bala
From India, Madras

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ATTITUDE

I have read your article.

First, ATTITUDE could be defined is a state of mind.

It is the product of a number of levels of factors.

TOP LEVEL ----- behavior.

This is what people see and make judgements on

behavior. But people call it attitude.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

BELOW BEHAVIOR is the state of mind.

what we call the attitude [ positive or negative ]

People make value judgements on attitude, but really people

should use descriptive terms.

Because the state of mind is a product of feelings.

-------------------------------------------------------------

BELOW the state of mind is the FEELINGS.

-----------------------------------------------------------

BELOW the feelings level

is the NEEDS

FEELINGS ARE created by the needs.

---------------------------------------------------

FINALLY THE NEEDS itself

is a product of your values.

=======================================

HENCE THE

-VALUES create needs

-NEEDS create feelings

-FEELINGS create state of mind

-STATE OF MIND [ ATTITUDE ] creates behavior.

BEHAVIOR IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE SEE AND MAKE JUDGEMENTS.

===========================================

HENCE , WHEN WE CONDUCT INTERVIEWS

-FOR SELECTION

-FOR CAREER PLAN

ETC

WE SHOULD TRAIN OUR QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE

-VALUES

-APTITUDE

-EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE

TO DETERMINE THE RIGHT CHOICE.

INDIVIDUAL ATTITUDE [ STATE OF MIND ] PLAYS ,

NOT A MAJOR PART , IN THE SELECTION / CAREER PLAN.

REGARDS

LEO LINGHAM
From India, Mumbai
Thanks bala.
Attitude had been not only a subject of study in scial psychology, but my masters and doctoral level works also contained attitude. But as on to day when I think that a judge's attitude determine's the outcome in a matter and neither the law nor the justice, I really get shaken. The invisible attitude determines everything and not the visible ones. So the more you study and ponder over attitude the more you come to the conclusion that attitude of everything-even life and death.
We shall continue interaction
regards
From India, Delhi
Namaskar. Psychometry/psychology is a science of probabilty. No such opinion can be given. regards
From India, Delhi
We can also look at Behavior being the output of Habits which are reinforced by Actions which are triggered by Thoughts... Thoughts — > Actions — > Habits — > Behavior Sanath
From India, Mumbai
Dear Bala,

I found your article very interesting and I would like to share with the rest of HRCite friends, my views.

Please do allow me to side-track abit. :D

I am a aikidoka, and have been practicing for the past 5 years. For those who is unfamiliar with Aikido, it is a Japanese martial art of self-defence that promotes non-aggressive nature, in fact, we do not have competition at all, as it goes against our philopsophy and everything we taught by the founder. Anyway, I notice that I began to think different, work different, live different, nothing forced, just a natural change. And I see this slowly developing in junior belts especially their confidence and outlook. My interest then lead me to analyse aikido in detail and to try to determine how this change came about.

To cut the long story short, I would like to summarise that Aikido provided a training space for our attitude, to generate a positive outlook towards ourselves and others. Through practice and being constantly faced with situations that required a calm mind, a protective alertness and maintain a constant stated of relaxation, we become more firm as a person and develop a strong mental approach towards life and work.

After awhile, I grew less stressful in the traffic jam. I learn to take it as a personal space where I am alone with my thoughts. I am able to take a step backwards and approach problems and situations with a calm mind.....and many others....because my attitude has been tuned to imagine as if I was in the dojo and face everything like an attack. My attitude is continuesly being trained to be in harmony with my surrounding and my universe. And now, how I look at life is to continuously maintaining that fragile balance of harmony. I still make mistake, but my attitude now forces me to learn from it and does not allow my ego to control the outcome of my mistake.

In other words, my attitude has become the mode of how I perceive everything around me. Yes, I would have to vote that attitude is the "be all, end all".

Thanks for listening.

Regards :wink:
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
"I am a aikidoka, and have been practicing for the past 5 years. For those who is unfamiliar with Aikido, it is a Japanese martial art of self-defence that promotes non-aggressive nature, in fact, we do not have competition at all, as it goes against our philopsophy and everything we taught by the founder"

"In other words, my attitude has become the mode of how I perceive everything around me. Yes, I would have to vote that attitude is the "be all, end all". "

Dear noel,

Namaskar.

Happy to know about aikidoka.Aikidika is for self-defence.By that negative happenings are expected to be inevitable which are to be defended. But the first mantra of our ZERO PATHOLOGY GANGA is:

Let us attain perfection and pleasures in the constant flow of the most favourable decisions and happenings to us and extinction of all unfavourale decisions and happenings against us instantly, perfectly, permamanently and spontaneously.

In this respect you are requested to join the thread "Power of thought" initiated by Rajat Joshi.

The second quote above does not speak specifically about recruitment and career development etc. Bala is asking about that. But your vote is in general. So please link up it to recruitment and career development.

regards
From India, Delhi
Dear Noel,
Thanks a lot for your article. I never knew Aikido. I could make out from your article that it is an art of self defence in a non aggressive way. Can I jnow more about this?
Dr Ji,
Thanks for raising my point once again - is attitude the only consideration for recruitment and career developement?
Thanks to Noel once again. Looking for more on Aikido.
Bala
From India, Madras
shri mahanta ji namaskar i would be really obliged if you please enlighten me about "Zero Pathology Ganga" regards manish
From India, Madras
Hi all,

I came across an inspirational story and want to share

with you all.

Quote:

On Nov. 18, 1995, Itzhak Perlman, the violinist, came

on stage to give a concert at Avery Fisher Hall at Lincoln Center

in New York City.

If you have ever been to a Perlman concert, you know

that getting on stage is no small achievement for him. He was

stricken with polio as a child, and so he has braces on both legs

and walks with the aid of two crutches. To see him walk across the

stage one step at a time, painfully and slowly, is an awesome sight.

He walks painfully, yet majestically, until he reaches his chair.

Then he sits down, slowly, puts his crutches on the floor,

undoes the clasps on his legs, tucks one foot back and extends

the other foot forward. Then he bends down and picks up the violin,

puts it under his chin, nods to the conductor and proceeds to play.

By now, the audience is used to this ritual. They sit

quietly while he makes his way across the stage to his chair. They

remain reverently silent while he undoes the clasps on his legs.

They wait until he is ready to play.

But this time, something went wrong. Just as he finished the first

few bars, one of the strings on his violin broke. You could hear it

snap - it went off like gunfire across the room. There was no

mistaking what that sound meant. There was no mistaking what he

had to do.

We figured that he would have to get up, put on the clasps again,

pick up the crutches and limp his way off stage - to either

find another violin or else find another string for this one. But

he didn't. Instead, he waited a moment, closed his eyes and then

signaled the conductor to begin again.

The orchestra began, and he played from where he had left off. And he

played with such passion and such power and such purity as they had

never heard before.

Of course, anyone knows that it is impossible to play a symphonic

work with just three strings. I know that, and you know that, but

that night Itzhak Perlman refused to know that.

You could see him modulating, changing, re-composing the piece in his

head. At one point, it sounded like he was de-tuning the strings to

get new sounds from them that they had never made before.

When he finished, there was an awesome silence in the room. And then

people rose and cheered. There was an extraordinary outburst of

applause from every corner of the auditorium. We were all on our

feet, screaming and cheering, doing everything we could to

show how much we appreciated what he had done.

He smiled, wiped the sweat from this brow, raised his bow to quiet

us, and then he said - not boastfully, but in a quiet, pensive,

reverent tone - "You know, sometimes it is the artist's task to

find out how much music you can still make with what you have left."

What a powerful line that is. It has stayed in my mind ever since I

heard it. And who knows? Perhaps that is the definition of life - not

just for artists but for all of us.

Here is a man who has prepared all his life to make music on a violin

of four strings, who, all of a sudden, in the middle of a concert,

finds himself with only three strings; so he makes music with three

strings, and the music he made that night with just three strings was

more beautiful, more sacred, more memorable, than any that he had

ever made before, when he had four strings.

So, perhaps our task in this shaky, fast-changing, bewildering world

in which we live is to make music, at first with all that we have,

and then, when that is no longer possible, to make music with what

we have left.

Unquote

Bala
From India, Madras
Dear Dr. Jogeshwar,

Thank you for the prompt. I must have missed out on the initial discussion.

Personally attitude is everything, mainly because attitude determines how we conduct ourselves, how we work and most importantly how we approach difficulties. I have always keep in mind, to determine how well one performs is when one is put in a crisis situation and still think rationally. Skill and knowledge can be taught and trained but attitude is a steep hill climb, not something that can be changed easily. Unfortunately, in reality, its a different scenerio altogether in terms of recruitment.

In the company I work for, they tend to emphasis alot on organisational compatibility and the candidate's potential to stay rather than any other factors in terms of recruitment. I do not necessary agree 100% on this policy, but it has its merits as well as it takes into consideration on the company capacity to retain "high flyers/performers". Unless, the company puts resources to be the BEST Employer, or at least have the resources to implement some form of retention strategies, im afraid attitude will be a secondary consideration for my company. Of course, the down side of it is, we employee second best employees, and occasionally Managers complaint that they lack the proper working "ATTITUDE". I remember a saying that goes "We employed based on Skill and Knowledge, but when we fire, we fire based on Attitude."

In succesion planning, Attitude again is vital. The higher we climb the corporate ladder, it will mean more money, more responsibility, more back stabbing, more politic-ing, less time for self, less time for family, trying to balance career and work, and much more. Without a proper attitude, individuals are going to have a hard and stressful time climbing ladder. It is evident, as we look around us, how many of us and honestly say I am stress free (I am only referring to the destructive form of stress). I remember reading several months back, that it was reported that in UK there is a significant rise in stress related cases. Just imagine the quality of family lives for these executives and the type of environment it would create for their children. Another reason to support ATTITUDE in succession planning, is to ensure that the right candidate is promoted to be responsible for resources and management. Our perception is strongly influence by our attitude. Our perception will then determine our decision and ultimately, our decision determined our actions.

It is my opinion, and how you'll find my sharing valuable.

Dear Bala,

Thank you for enquiring. Aikido is a great art, for maintaining both physical and mental health. When we first join, we are constantly reminded to relax and to breath though our hara in order to stimulate and encourage our flow of ki. Not sure if you are familiar with the Japanese terms, hara is the point in our abdomen that is the source of our ki, and ki is, if I am not mistaken, pranas?, what we chinese also term as chi. In fact, aikido allows us to build up our ki level, bring our conscious level higher and of course with better flow of ki, our body becomes more healther through our bodies rejunevative process.

In the martial aspect of it, it teachs us to defend ourselves by being calm in order to intercept the various ways and attack can originate from. Also it teaches us how to receive the attack by being soft, so that we can bring the attack into our circle of control and thus neutralise the attack without force or unneccessary hurt to the attacker. A great way to relax after a stressful day. In fact, some people coin aikido as "dynamic yoga".

Like many other arts, I believe that we are loosing the importance of the budo, or way of the warrior. We see only a winner and a loser, to bring an attacker down with the fastest and the deadliest possible way etc. Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of aikido, created this martial art as a link between humans and our creators (aikido has only 1 religous connection, and that is the religion that each individual pratitioner believes in) through the universe. It is art of love for humanity and for our nature. It is a mirror where we will find ourselves and bring ourselves to a higher plan of achievements and awareness.

Aikido is a martial art and a way of life.

There are numerous website that talks about aikido and its application. Just google search and you'll find plenty of sites. The most popular one is the Aikido journal website,

I think I've gone on too much and barely even touch the tip of the iceberg. Guess I better stop before I write a whole book here, :D, but I would love to answer any questions that you have concerning aikido. It is a wonderful experience and fantastic art for self defence.

Regards
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru


“So, perhaps our task in this shaky, fast-changing, bewildering world

in which we live is to make music, at first with all that we have,

and then, when that is no longer possible, to make music with what

we have left.”

Zero Pathology Ganga

Thanks to all of you for so much interest to know about Zero Pathology Ganga. I had made a reference of it as I thought that the underlying attitude in Aikido appeared to me as paradoxical . First, anticipate that there will be attack on self and then go on defending the imaginary attacks even though there is no attack in view. One basic cosmic principle is now becoming popular that expectation causes happening. So very expectation of attack, I think, is against this theory. Only time will tell whether such a theory is correct.

Leaving aside the cosmic theory, let us come to lower logical ground. There was a psychologist. He wanted to prove that psychiatrists can make erroneous diagnosis. So he trained a dummy as schizophrenic for admission into the mental hospital. The dummy was admitted and remained as long as the psychologist had wished. The dummy could not be detected at all that he was a fake case l. After the dummy came out. the psychologist informed the hospital authorities about his success. After a few days he told the authorities that he has already sent then a number of dummies without sending even one. This time the hospital authorities re-examined all fresh cases and discharged about 10% of the iagnosed schizophrenics. So an obsession may vitiate accuracy of judgment.

Now let us come to “Zero pathology Ganga “. This is the name of our morning exercise group. It is so named because one is to ascend the stages of rahat(relief), arogya(cure) and niroga(ailment freeness). There is no guru, no chela and no leader. Every body has veto power means every decision be taken only with 100% consensus. Of course, I work as a threader.

First when we meet we greet as-Good morning brother(s)! Cheer up and gear up and march ahead. Then every one does his physical exercise as he likes. Some do individually and some in sub groups. Then comes mental/thought transmission segment. Here every one participates. The sequence is:

1. Om chandrasuryabhyam namah,

2. Om sarbadevebhya namah,

3. Mrityunjaya mantra,

4. Gayatri mantra,

5. Full breath Om 21 times,

6. Bhramari/closed lips om 7 times.

7. Then desired thought transmission mantras as:

THOUGHT TRANSMISSION MANTRAS

1. Let us attain perfection and pleasures in the constant flow of the

most favorable decisions and happenings to us and extinction of all unfavorable decisions and happenings against us instantly, perfectly, permanently and spontaneously.

2.Let us have

breath in our nostrils,

voice in our mouths,

sight in our eyes,

hearing in our ears,

hair that has not turned gray,

teeth that are not discolored and

much strength in our arms.

Let all our organs remain unimpaired

and our souls in peace and harmony.

3.Let us attain perfection and pleasures in simultaneous and

spontaneous regeneration, fresh generation, repair, readaptation,

regularities and cell health medicines instantly, perfectly,

permanently and spontaneously.

4.Let us attain perfection and pleasures in feeling free, relaxed,

comfortable, reorganized and produce and progress instantly,

perfectly, permanently and spontaneously.

5.Let us attain perfection and pleasures in the constant flow of

clear, vivid and correct feelings and ideas and not any wrong

feeling and idea instantly, perfectly, permanently and

spontaneously.



8. Laughter session

9. Then

Sarbe bhabantu sukhinah,

Sarbe santu niramayah,

Sarbe bhadrani pashyantu,

Ma kaschit duhkhahbhag bhabet.

10. Then parting;

OK brothers! Cheer up and gear up and march ahead .

regards
From India, Delhi
Namaskar. Thanks and Most welcome Bala. To stand up and progress vicarious effect is essential. regards "Oops forgot to ask, Dr. Jogeshwar, what is Zero pathology Ganga?" Noel
From India, Delhi
Thanks to all of you for so much interest to know about Zero Pathology Ganga. I had made a reference of it as I thought that the underlying attitude in Aikido appeared to me as paradoxical . First, anticipate that there will be attack on self and then go on defending the imaginary attacks even though there is no attack in view. One basic cosmic principle is now becoming popular that expectation causes happening. So very expectation of attack, I think, is against this theory. Only time will tell whether such a theory is correct.

Dear Dr. Jogeshwar,

I agree with that line of thought, "expectation causes happening". So example, if we are conscious over lets say a WHITE HONDA CIVIC. We will begin to notice, "Hey there are quite a number of people with a white honda". Humans tend to do a lot of selective reasoning, always looking out for evidence that will prove or disprove our own beliefs, and not daring to put reality in the forefront. We tend to want to create and live in our own fantasy world. A fantasy world, where we we are comfortable in, where we can have reasons for our own joy and suffering, yes this fantasy world most of time includes our misery and pain. Aikido has taught me not to anticipate, for anticipation can lead to miscommunication and injuries. In fact, aikido trains me to observe the real situation, and not the situation that I perceive. It made me look at myself deeply, for perception begins with me. In order to move to a higher level of humanity I am require to first conquer self, the first and the hardest step.

Regards (Be 2 Big for Worry and 2 Noble for Anger)
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
Dear Noel,
I agree with the point that expectation causes happening. And anticipation could lead to miscommunication (this has happened to me several times and still keeps happening). I also agree that we got to look at the real situation rather than perception. But this goes against the very often flaunted theory that "perception is reality". It is much worse if it is "my perception is always my reality" andsomebody else's perception doen't matter. This "perception is reality" I keep hearing almost everyday and now i have a fear that i amalso moving towards the same psychology.
Thanks
Bala
From India, Madras
Namaskar Balaji and friends.

Noel is yet to respond. However, I like to post my observation on the realisation of Balaji.

Thanks to Dale Carnegi the expression "positive thinking" has been very charitably being used. Now instead of thinking positive most people call their thinking as positive and how to cultivate. It is not necessarily that whatever thoughts of ours we support are positive. Then how to extract the positive thoughts? For the purpose, let us enter into a dialogue with our thoughts.

Jogeshwar-Mr thought A I favour you very dearly. Do you favour me too?

Thought-Yes, Yes?

J-Really?

A- (fumbling) Yes, yes. I favour you.

J- So do I enjoy your short term and long term favour.

A-(keeps mum)

J- By favour, I mean whether you are beneficial to me and not harmful.

A-(feels troubled)

J-Listen my dear A. Untill and unless you are favourable to me, just I can not host you any more. Please get out from my consciousness.

Now one can have dialogue with old and new thoughts and identify the favourable and positive ones drive away unfavourable and negative ones.

regards
From India, Delhi
Wonderfully said, Dr.J (if you dont mind the short reference). Nicely describing self analysis. Before I continue, I just like to share a few thoughts on Bala's statement of "my perception is my reality".

Our human mind is a magnificant work of creation, it has the capability of perform work that never cease to amaze researchers. BUT, it also be used to blind ourselves if we want it too. "My perception is my reality" is a saying that allows people to justify themselves for staying in their comfort zone. It is very dangerous to hold on to this type of thinking because it poisons our mind and our growth as humans. That statement can be used to explain why some people do what they do because they perceive it as their reality and it does no good for anyone as well, by hold on this believe. Example, Bala realises that he is slowly inclining towards a certain behavior that you do not agree too. Something tells you its not right. You asked, you search, therefore you question. You no longer take how you perceive as the only answer. You open yourself to opinions, sharing, critism, ideas and alternatives. You learn, understand and grow. You begin to have a view of how things are in a bigger picture, maybe even begin to see meaning in things around you and why there are there for, and if I maybe so bold as to say, maybe start to get the hint how you can enlighten yourself?

I believe you can achieve anything you set your mind too. My only suggestion is to once in a while ask the question why and be totally honest with yourself, look your answer in the eye, face it and then decide if you should change. Remember there is not right or wrong, just who you are and what you want to be.

Dr. J, I thank you for your sharing it really makes me think. I also like to add to your sharing that our thought process is always a you, me, them, us type. This I feel is the basic flaw in our civilisation. We do not see ourselves as "Earthlings" (for lack of a better term) yet we live in the same house we call Earth. We have been so categorise that no matter how multiracial one country claims they are we have not yet reach a stage where we think as one people, because we still see ourselves as chinese, indians, malays, americans, japanese, and ethnic cleansing like the Bosnia-Hesergovino just happens. Every society, I believe has gone through some form of ethnic incident, and I believe all who were involved, had positive thinking about themselves and what they were doing. So what happens next? continue until there is a supreme race on Earth? like what Adolf Hitler tried to do? Do we want another Hitler?

Cultivation of positive thought is good, but we need to know what we are channeling or directing those thoughts for, destruction or growth.

:D "Earthlings of Earth Unite" :D
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
Most welcome Balaji.
My confidence about your success emanates from two sources.
1.Our Zero Pathology Ganga is at Gangotri level but at the same time we visualze the terrain up to diamond harbour.
2. Your sincerity of purpose as reflected in your posts.
regards
From India, Delhi
"Cultivation of positive thought is good, but we need to know what we are channeling or directing those thoughts for, destruction or growth. "
The whole game revolves around the meaning of this one sentence Neolji.
regards
From India, Delhi
I cannot agree with you more. If only more people realise that the price of this game is not just our own life but the life of everyone in this home we call Earth. :wink:
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
Dear Noel,

Thanks for your very purposeful comments on my note. I really appreciate and agree with what you have stated. Yes, I have started seeing things in a different light and I believe I can do it.

In a lighter vein, just look at what Physicsts say about 'human perception'. Not sure whether totally relevant to the 'perception' here. But an intersting article. May be Dr could explain the Psychological part of it.

Quote:

The Weber - Fechner law attempts to describe the relationship between the physical magnitudes of stimuli and human perception of the intensity of stimuli.

Ernst Heinrich Weber (1795-1878) was one of the first people to approach the study the human response to a physical stimulus in a quantitative fashion.

Gustav Theodor Fechner (1801-1887) later offered an elaborate theoretical interpretation of Weber's findings, which he called simply Weber's law, though his admirers made the law's name a hyphenate.

Stevens' power law is generally considered to provide a more accurate and/or general description, although both the Weber - Fechner law and Stevens' power law entail implicit assumptions regarding the measurement of perceived intensity of stimuli.

In the case of the Weber - Fechner law, the implicit assumption is that just noticeable differences are additive; i.e. that they can be added in an analogous manner to the addition of units of a physical quantity. Of relevance, L. L. Thurstone made explicit this assumption in terms of the concept of discriminal dispersion inherent within the Law of comparative judgment.

Fechner believed that Weber had discovered the fundamental principle of mind/body interaction, a mathematical analog of the function Rene Descartes once assigned to the pineal gland.

1. The case of weight

In one of his classic experiments, Weber gradually increased the weight that a blindfolded man was holding and asked him to respond when he first felt the increase. Weber found that the response was proportional to a relative increase in the weight. That is to say, if the weight is 1 kg, an increase of a few grams will not be noticed. Rather, when the mass is increased by a certain factor, an increase in weight is perceived. If the mass is doubled, the threshold is also doubled.

This kind of relationship can be described by a differential equation as,

dp = k(ds/s)



where dp is the differential change in perception, dS is the differential increase in the stimulus and S is the stimulus at the instant. A constant factor k is to be determined experimentally.

Integrating the above equation

p = klnS + C

with C is the constant of integration, 'ln' is the natural logarithm.

To determine C, put p = 0, i.e. no perception; then

C = − klnS0

where S0 is that threshold of stimulus below which it is not perceived at all.

Therefore, our equation becomes

p = k In(S/S0)



The relationship between stimulus and perception is logarithmic.

This logarithmic relationship means that if the perception is altered in an arithmetic progression (i.e. add constant amounts) the corresponding stimulus varies as a geometric progression (i.e. multiply by a fixed factor).

The point is that this logarithmic relationship is valid, not just for the sensation of weight, but for other stimuli as well.

The case of vision

The eye senses brightness logarithmically. Hence stellar magnitude is measured on a logarithmic scale. This magnitude scale was invented by the ancient Greek astronomer Hipparchus in about 150 B.C. He ranked the stars he could see in terms of their brightness, with 1 representing the brightest down to 6 representing the faintest, though now the scale has been extended beyond these limits. An increase in 5 magnitudes corresponds to a decrease in brightness by a factor 100.

The case of sound

Still another logarithmic scale is the decibel scale of sound intensity. And yet another is pitch. In the case of perception of pitch, humans hear pitch in a logarithmic or "geometric" ratio-based fashion. For instance, the "pitch distance" between 100 Hz and 150 Hz sounds the same as 1000 Hz and 1500 Hz. The frequency of corresponding notes of adjacent octaves differ by a factor of 2. For notes spaced equally apart to the human ear, the frequencies are related by a multiplicative factor. For instance, for a 12-tone scale in equal temperament, this factor is 12 th root of 2 (twelfth root of 2). So the frequency of the A# note is the frequency of the A times the 12th root of 2, for any octave.

Economics

In 1889, the Austrian economist Friedrich Wieser, in "Natural Value," coined the phrase marginal utility for a closely-related phenomenon -- the satiation of human appetite for identical increments of a good.

"Any one who has just taken a certain quantity of food of a certain kind will not immediately have the same strength of desire for another similar quantity," he wrote. "Within any single period of want every additional act of satisfaction will be estimated less highly than a preceding one obtained from a quantity of goods equal in kind and amount."

A non-Fechnerian interpretation of Weber's results

In 1890, the American psychologist William James described Fechner's writings on the subject of Weber's results as "patient whimsies" and said it would be a pity if Fechner should "compel all future students" of psychology "to plough through the difficulties, not only of his own works, but of the still drier ones written in his refutation."

James saw Weber's law as an accurate generalization as to the friction in the neural machinery.

"If our feelings [of weight, sight, sound, etc.] resulted from a condition of the nerve molecules which it grew ever more difficult for the stimulus to increase, our feelings would naturally grow at a slower rate than the stimulus itself. An ever larger part of the latter's work would go to overcoming the resistances, and an ever smaller part to the realization of the feeling-bringing state."

Unquote:

Does it make some sense. We will have to consult a Physicist, may be.

Thanks

Bala
From India, Madras
Dear friends,

Namaskar.

Balaji has brought us to a significant juncture of discussion-psychophysics in the understanding of human behaviour. Psychophysics is the most rigourous scientific branch of psychology.It cocerns every one. So I like that every one concerned may join the discussion. I shall be posting the article covering the following aspects of psychophysics:

1.sensation,

2.perception,

3.objective realty,

4.subjective realty,

5.Relation between 3 and 4.

6.psychophysics and Thurstonian method of attitude scale construction and

7.world view.

Before that let me illustrate how perception as reality helps the perceiver to live in illusion. Below are 3 posts from certain other thread of citehr. First is a comment of certain brother member of citehr on me. second is my reply and the third is his.

"nobody understands Dr. Jogeshwar mahanta......other than he himself....i faced a similar issue when i had just joined citehr....i just couldn't comphrend hiz posts....no offence dearDr. Jogeshwar mahanta... we all love you"

"we all love you... " Dear -----, If it is not a big list, will you please tell who are included in "we"? regards_________________Jogeshwar mahanta "

"by "we" i meant "citehr-members"

From the perception of the brother member the following prositions emerge:

1.Nobody understands Dr. Jogeshwar Mahanta,

2.All citehr members love Dr. Jogeshwar Mahanta.

Both the propositions are his perceptions. This is his subjective reality. But when he presents his subjective reality as objective reality by expressions "nobody" and "citehr members", he is in illusion.

Illusions are always liabilities. Duryodhon lifted his lower robe seeing water when there was no water and fell down in water where it looked as if no water in Indraprastha palace of pandavas. This caused laughter of Drupadi and consequences followed. So beware of illusions.

regards
From India, Delhi
Dear Dr Ji,
You have hit right on dot. Both propositions about You are the member's own perception and he believes "perception is reality?". He perceiving that others also party to his perception could be illusion. I say "could be" because I am also not sure about others' perceptions.
Illusions are liabilities. But more than liability, they are dangerous also like (as you pointed out), what happened to Duryodhan?
I look forwward to your posts on the subject 'psychophysics' eagerly.
Thanks
Bala
From India, Madras
Dear Dr. J,
I have not read this topic in years, :o I am definately looking forward to your article on the subject. It will be a good opportunity for me to catch up. :D
Food for Thought: Can we really define the fine line between illusions and realty? When one ends and the other start?
To all in citeHR, Have a good and Happy Weekend.
Smile :)
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
"Can we really define the fine line between illusions and realty?"Noelji
Namaskar Noelji.
Thanks for your nice reply.
The line between illusion and reality is a gulf and as wide as east to west.
Regards
From India, Delhi
Dear CiteHR friends,

Going away from perception and reality, here is an interesting story:

Quote:

Once upon a time there were 2 brothers who lived on the 80th floor

of a tall building.

On coming home one day they realized, to their dismay, that the lifts

were not working and that they would have to climb up the stairs.

After struggling to the 20th level, panting and tired, they decided

to leave their bags and thought of taking them back the next day.

They left their bags there and climbed on...

By the time they had struggled to the 40th level, they had gone

sufficiently mad and were irritated.

The younger brother started to grumble and soon both of them began to

quarrel.

They somehow continued to climb the flights of steps, quarreling all

the way to the 60th floor.

They then realized that they had only 20 levels more to climb and

decided to stop quarreling and continue climbing in peace.

They silently climbed on and reached their apartment at long last!

Each stood calmly before the door and waited for the other to open

the door.

They then realized that their keys were in their bags, which were

left on the 20th floor!!!

Huh, huh, huh!!!!!!

This reflects our life and times. All of us climb the tall building

called 'career'... some till the 80th floor and some less. But do

we know that the key to happiness is in the bag, which has been left

back on the 20th floor?

Know your dreams and follow it so that you will not live with

regrets. If the chariot of your life is driven by the seeds of

ambition, make sure the reins of your life are held by the hands of

joy.

Unquote

Thanks

bala
From India, Madras
See this smalll one slide on attitude????????????? Bala
From India, Madras

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Namaskar everybody,

Is this Attitude or Faith.

Read Through

Quote

Years ago, I was enthralled as I listened to a pastor who for several years had faithfully served the church. His executive responsibilities had taken him all over this country. As he concluded his message, he told of one of the most frightening yet thought-provoking experiences of his life.

He had been on a long flight. The first warning of the approaching problems came when the sign on the airplane flashed on: Fasten your seat belts.’ Then, after a while, a calm voice said, ‘We shall not be serving the beverages at this time as we are expecting a little turbulence. Please be sure your seat belt is fastened.’

As he looked around the aircraft, it became obvious that many of the passengers were becoming apprehensive. Later, the voice of the announcer said, ’we are so sorry that we are unable to serve the meal at this time. The turbulence is still ahead of us.’ And then the storm broke. The ominous cracks of thunder could be heard even above the roar of the engines. Lightening lit up the darkening skies, and within moments that great plane was like a cork tossed around on a celestial ocean. One moment the airplane was lifted on terrific currents of air; the next, it dropped as if it were about to crash.

The pastor confessed that he shared the discomfort and fear of those around him. He said, ‘As I looked around the plane, I could see that nearly all the passengers were upset and alarmed. Some were praying. The future seemed ominous and many were wondering if they would make it through the storm.

And then, I suddenly saw a girl to whom the storm meant nothing. She had tucked her feet beneath her as she sat on her seat and was reading a book. Everything within her small world was calm and orderly. Sometimes she closed her eyes, then she would read again; then she would straighten her legs, but worry and fear were not in her world.



When the plane was being buffeted by the terrible storm, when it lurched this way and that, as it rose and fell with frightening severity, when all the adults were scared half to death, that marvelous child was completely composed and unafraid.’

The minister could hardly believe his eyes.

It was not surprising therefore, that when the plane finally reached its destination and all the passengers were hurrying to disembark, he lingered to speak to the girl whom he had watched for such a long time.

Having commented about the storm and behavior of the plane, he asked why she had not been afraid. The sweet child replied, ‘Sir, my Dad is the pilot, and he is taking me home.’



- Author Unknown

Thanks

Bala
From India, Madras
BEWARE OF ILLUSIONS

Experiment 1.

Have 22 pebbles two from each with denominations of 50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59 and 60 grams. All the pebbles must be of same shape, size and colour and visually must look alike. Each pebble must have flat base where its weight be printed. In the back of each there will be certain elevation with the help of which the pebbles can be lifted easily.

Now you prepare a chart of pairs randomly but ultimately the chart will show the difference of weight of the pairs as under:

0 gram difference 10 pairs,

1 gram difference 10 pairs,

2 grams difference10 pairs,

3grams difference 10 pairs,

4 grams difference 10 pairs,

5 grams difference 10 pairs,

6 grams difference 10 pairs,

7 grams difference 10 pairs,

8 grams difference 10 pairs,

9 grams difference 10 pairs and

10 grams difference 10 pairs.

Now find out the most judicious person around you and invite him/her to participate in the experiment. After establishing adequate rapport tell him/her:

The experiment is very simple. I shall give you 110 pairs of pebbles,1 pair at a time, to judge whether the both of the pair are of equal weight or which of the two in the pair is “heavier”.

Now take out your random pair chart, present the pairs in sequence and record the judgments of your subject as “right” or “wrong” without giving any feedback during the experiment. Now count the correct responses at each difference level, that is, 0 to 10. Gradually as the levels of differences will increase, the frequency of correct responses will increase and even at the level of 10 gram difference you may not get 100 percent correct responses.

Now you go to test subject 2, 3, 4 etc in the same way and plot the correct response graphs for each subject. Calculate the points in X axis for each subject on which there are 50% correct differential responses. These points are known as Differential limen(DL) or Differential thresholds.

Your findings will be

1.Each subject is bound to commit error, that is, there is no linear relationship between objective reality and subjective reality.

2. For each subject you will find separate DLs.There will be wide individual differences, that is, psychophysical make ups of all of us differ.

3. Ask your subjects to repeat the exercise 100 times each but they can never be 100 percent accurate.

Now what is sensation and what is perception? The sensory experience while lifting the pebbles and before arriving at the interpretation of sensory information as “equal” or “heavier” is called sensation. When the information is judged as “equal” or “heavier” the experience is called perception. The perception may be right or wrong. The wrong perceptions are called illusions.

For the present I am skipping over Thurstonian method of attitude scale construction.

A person has millions and billions of interactions with the reality and has millions and billions of perceptions. Some are right and some are wrong. The perceptions are precisely reserved in the mind as beliefs and attitudes. We evaluate the forthcoming information on the basis of our beliefs and attitudes and this way of evaluation and its basis is called world view. Every one of us have distinct world views. So we differ and will continue to differ. Even identical/monogygotic twins differ. So we can not, can never unify ourselves but can harmonize despite differences. So let us strive for what is feasible.

Psychophysics in every day life.

Once in a while we see someone and say “hello……..” but the person does not respond as expected because he/she is not the “same” person for which we say hello. We get a mild jerk and proceed.

But visualize a situation. A learned professor of an engineering college goes in evening walk with his wife. He meets his friend and starts talking. In such situations traditional Indian wives stand a little apart. So did this wife too. As the learned professor gets engrossed in talk, the wife gets bored and returns home silently. By the time the learned professor concludes his conversation, incidentally an unconcerned woman stands in the same place. The learned professor neither judges this woman as heavier, nor lighter, nor equal nor identical but as same. So he proceeds unto her, pats on her back and says “Let us go”.

The next you can very well guess what could have happened to the venerable professor.

Certainly this incident is not going to happen with you. But suppose

You judge a benevolent person as malevolent, a bahkau/bhadkau/bidkau (instigators) as well wishers, conmen as friends, an exploiter as saviour and vice versa and etc.etc. All of us if we check up our pasts then we will certainly find that we are subjected to may such illusions. So let us beware of illusions.

regards
From India, Delhi
Dear Dr.J,
I have always believed in this words. In fact, thats what aikido is helping me achieve, the harmonising of the world and myself.
You are right, we all live in our own perception and re-act accordingly. Conflict arises when the perceptions come together and cannot harmonise. To make matter worse, some perceptions are re-enforced with our ego. Then perception clashes. Imagine perception as bubbles around us, when we harden the bubbles, we will clash when we come in contact with other bubbles. If we learn to soften our bubbles and allow other bubbles to come into our circumference then we can learn what the other bubbles look like and how other bubbles feel.
It is not easy to harmonise, and at most time extremely hard, but it is a good lesson to learn.
Regards
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
Thank you Noelji for taking the message in right perspective.

The problem is what I call idiosyncratic imperialism. You will find it all around you. Normally motivation of a person you will find at any of the following level:

1.I am always right or

2.So I must prevail or

3. Whatever may, I must prevail or

4.By hook or crook,I must prevail.

Observe the people around you and just guess what percentage will be at what level.

To annihilate idiosyncratic imperialism in our Zero Pathology Ganga we follow two principles.:

1. Every one is welcome but no one is invited.

2. Every one enjoys veto power. We have made good bye to majority must be granted. So when any one to propose any thing he must consult his best conscience and neither emotionally nor casually.

regards
From India, Delhi
Dear Noelji, Between unity and harmony which one appears to be more diificult/impossible for you? Will you prefer to work for unity or harmony? Comments please. regards
From India, Delhi
Hello Dr. J,

Wow, this is definately something that needs a good amount of consideration.

In all honest opinion, I see this as a "chicken and egg" situation. Which comes first, Unity before Harmony, or Harmony before Unity?

Unity is the coming of togetherness under a common purpose. This common purpose is the glue that keeps the Unity together but it is fragile glue. Whereas Harmony is a better glue to use and keep Unity together. In fact, Harmony acts like cement for Unity.

Harmony, where factors of the group is in perfect syn with each other. Factors in this group are in total understanding and acceptance that Unity becomes the evolution of Harmony, becoming a Harmonious Unity. However, Harmony has many hurdles to pass before it can evolve, hurdles like discrimination, tolerance, lackadaisical attitudes, fear and such.

I guess for me, Harmony is the most difficult to achieve compare to the two. Unity can be achieve through a common goal, a physical manifestation of a group desire, whereas Harmony is........how do i put this.....an identity with invisible borders, where we cannot be sure if it is truly achieved, where parties are not threathen, manupilated, coerced, forced into actions for the sake of the notion of "harmonious". Until humans begin to seek a higher level of consciousness and "walk the talk" rather than "talk the talk" Harmony will be the hardest to achieve, in my opinion.

Which would I rather work on? I will try to keep my answer short. :wink: Not surprisingly, Harmony will be my choice. Why? because I see that, in order to create harmony, we need to first be in harmony within ourselves. We first as a human needs to change. The process of harmony must start from each individual being and then will it be able to take shape and manifest itself in this world. Humans must first begin to seek the higher self. I believe this to be the foundation of change, in fact, this is how I see change management. I do sound rather idealistic but I do strongly belief that it is the first critical step towards healing this world. Funny you should pose this question, because what I just describe mirrors the teachings of our Aikido founder, Morihei Ueshiba, and this is what I have dedicated myself to learning and when I am competent enough, to spread this message through aikido.

Thank you this interesting question. It help made me "remember" why I stay in Aikido practice. Dr. J, what about you? which is more difficult and which will you choose?

Regards
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
Many thanks Noelji for making a beautiful analysis of your self. Certainly if unity would have been looking feasible, I would have preferred that but to me I see some possible success in striving for harmony. So I am doing that whatever I can but IDOSYNCRATIC IMPERIALISM is the sole culprit against harmony.

regards
From India, Delhi
I would like to share this apocryphal story set in one of the small towns that dot the Midwest in the United States of America. For its content, this place could be anywhere in the world:

There is a gas station on the highway which passes through the town. An old man sits on a rocking chair in his porch across this gas station and watches people go by. Since it is a small town he knows practically everyone. When cars pass by to fill up their gas tanks, some drivers walk across to him and chat.

One such newcomer tells him that he is moving in into this town and asks , "How are the people here?" The old man answered, "Well, how are the people where you come from?" The newcomer griped, "That was a lousy town! The neighbors were all indifferent and uncooperative!" The old man said, "This town is just about the same."

After some time, another car drove up and this newcomer asked the same question. The old man asked the same question as to how the people were in the town from which he came from. The newcomer said brightly, "That was such a lovely town! All the neighbors were so friendly and cooperative!" The old man then said, "This town is just about the same."

Now, the old man's six-year old grandson who had playing near the porch had heard both these conversations. After the newcomer left, he came up and asked, "Grandpa! How come you gave two different answers to two different people. To whom did you tell a lie?"

The old man smiled and said, "I did not lie to either of them. Attitude is a baggage that we carry with us wherever we go."

Sanath
From India, Mumbai
Sanath, superb story. Attitude is everything? Is attitude the be all end all is the question i posed when the post was started. Bala
From India, Madras
"Hi bala, have you come to any conclusion yet? Is attitude the be all end all?"
Namaskar.
Balaji may like to speak for himself. For me so far as life is concerned, attitude is every thing where as when it is a question of recruitment and career development etc. it is a probability.
regards
From India, Delhi
Dear Dr,
Yes, that is what I am also getting at - when you consider career development & recruitment, attitude is surely one of the (major) factors, but not definitely the only one.
As far life goes, yes what you have said is the only formula.
Thanks
Bala
From India, Madras
Dear Bala, Dr. J, Cheers to attitude. This is one that I will be most happy to drink up to. Cheers.
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
Namaskar Dear Noel and Balaji,
Thank you very much. I am vey happy that ultimately we converge.
But This is not the end. I am posting a table of attitude ratings for analysis. Just wait for a few minutes.
regards
From India, Delhi
Here it is please.
Earned user attitude 30/8/05 23/8/05

Sunayna 7.00 6.33
Rupa 0.00 0.00
Pallavi 0.00 0.00
Vishal 5.00 5.00
Swatiji 4.00 4.00
Murali 0.00 0.00
Sushil 0.00 0.00
Sreenivasan 5.50 5.50
Coolamit 0.00 0.00
Frietzie 10.00 10.00
Aguinn 9.33 9.33
Surajsingh 0.00 0.00
Vinaykumar 7.00 7.00
Numeruno 5.50 4.86
Angel 0.00 0.00
Soms 7.00 7.00
Ekta Sharma 4.67 4.67
Reena 6.67 5.25
Noojilla 0.00 0.00
Shoonya 8.56 8.56
Ajmal Mirja 6.71 6.71
Arushi Jain 0.00 0.00
Shaki 5.00 5.00
Jogeshwar 3.20 3.06
*In case of mistake, sorry in advance.
regards
From India, Delhi
Earned user attitude 30/8/05----------- 24/8/05



Sunayna---------- 7.00------------------- 6.33

Rupa-------------- 0.00------------------- 0.00

Pallavi------------ 0.00------------------- 0.00

Vishal------------ 5.00------------------- 5.00

Swatiji----------- 4.00------------------- 4.00

Murali------------ 0.00------------------- 0.00

Sushil------------ 0.00------------------- 0.00

Sreenivasan----- 5.50-------------------- 5.50

Coolamit--------- 0.00------------------- 0.00

Frietzie----------- 10.00------------------ 10.00

Aguinn----------- 9.33------------------- 9.33

Surajsingh------- 0.00-------------------- 0.00

Vinaykumar----- 7.00-------------------- 7.00

Numeruno------- 5.50-------------------- 4.86

Angel------------- 0.00-------------------- 0.00

Soms------------- 7.00-------------------- 7.00

Ekta Sharma---- 4.67-------------------- 4.67

Reena------------ 6.67-------------------- 5.25

Noojilla---------- 0.00-------------------- 0.00

Shoonya--------- 8.56-------------------- 8.56

Ajmal Mirja----- 6.71-------------------- 6.71

Arushi Jain------ 0.00-------------------- 0.00

Shaki------------- 5.00-------------------- 5.00

Jogeshwar------- 3.20-------------------- 3.06

*In case of mistake, sorry in advance.

regard
From India, Delhi
Namaskar and most welcome Deepaliji and thank you for your query.
In fact, there is an error on the top of the last column. Instead of 23/8/05, please read it today's date,that is, 23/9/05.
The names and user attitude points as appeared in the threads "friends are for ever", "attitude is every thing" an "Azmal Mirza here' on 30/8/05 are presented in the first and second columns respectively. In the third column the user attitude points as appear to day are presented. This is the data table. You can make your own observations and inferences. See if anything meaningful comes.This also answers Balaji's query.
regards
From India, Delhi
Dr. JI,
I am unable to understand about what you wanted to show from this table,
what for it is, why are dese names dere and what do these figures quoted against dese names depict.
please tell...
dips
From India, Delhi
Please go to any of your post. See the left upper corner. There you can find your brief profile. OK?. You can find an item named as"user attitude". Right? Against that you can get a figure. For example, Balaji has 4.00 today. This is the average attitude rating in a 0to 10 point scale you have earned from other citehr members. Right? Now go to any other's post and you will find an average user attitude point.Right. As soon as some one casts his/her rating the average may change. You may not have the same average user attitude point one month after. Right?

Now come to the table again. In the first column the names of the partipants of 3 threads named in my previous post are given. Right? Their average user attitude points as appeared on 30/8/05 in their profiles are given in the second column. The variation,if any, as on today you can get in the third column. Column wise if you go upward or downward you can find individual differences. If you go row wise then you can see the changes over time. I think, I am clear now. if not, please ask again. Right?

regards
From India, Delhi
Namaskar friends.
I think we are prolific and vociferous in phantasy level. That is fine but I think it is necessary to be equally prolific and vociferous on ground reality also. Am I right friends?
regards
From India, Delhi
Dear Deepaliji and Balaji,
Thank you very much for your replies. in this topic so far we were addressing two questions:
1.What is attitude?
3.What attitude does?
From you replies now it appears that on the basis of the actual atttude ratings we can not address these two questions. Right?
regards
From India, Delhi
Dear Balaji and deepaliji,
I had tried to supplement actual data to our theoretical discussion and saught meaningful inference,if at all. As looking from different angles, the data does not yeild any thing, let us drop it hear.
regards
From India, Delhi
Dear Bala,
Attitude is extremely important - a must as a starting point in recruitment and career development. Without it, the Company suffers and with it suffers the career.
But why be so interested in using superlatives. Get on with the job and try to remain away from language entrapment. It is an art to be aware of this so that one does not go into needless loop.
Regards,
Sunil Chandra
www.piiconsultants.com
From India, Gurgaon
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