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I fully agree with you but we also should think that most of the members in this forum are falling in either immediate passed outs or yet to come out from college.
I believe its we who have to educate them when they going through mistakes.
Hope im clear to you.
with kind regards,
29th January 2011 From India, Madras
First and foremost, a big thank you for initiating this thread . We all agree that we came to this community to groom ourselves professionally. Hence, what we write and how we present our thoughts shows our interest towards self-development.
We have been requesting members repeatedly not to use SMS language and post requests in complete sentences. Sometimes, it’s beyond grammar, we can’t understand what is meant. Consequently, we miss reverting to the post. I have received repeated requests and complaints on this. A bad presentation drives seniors and serious readers away from replying.
Internet is an open platform. The mistake that is made today will stay forever. This makes it essential that we think twice before we present ourselves and make necessary preparation.
There are leaders in this community, who would not have been, within our reach. Mr. Narashimhan had co-authored a book with Hubert Rampersad. Samvedan is a sounding board to many CEO. They are just few to name, there are many more. The more I get to know, the more it humbles me. I realize how important it is to maintain the standard which would meet these great leader's expectations. Generating a value through whatever we do, carves our place on this earth. A minor mistake such as an incorrect sentence formation or our own eagerness to appear casual can kill it all.
Coining standards would create lot more takeaways for the one who accepts it . This can be realized only when someone invests in learning and developing themselves.
Once again, I thank you for this initiative. I am following this thread, will wait to read the point of view
29th January 2011 From India, Mumbai
I agree with (Cite Contribution) that it's good that you have highlighted this aspect.
While it's necessary & realistic to expect the members doing the Postings to improve their written communication skills [I only hope they realise that in the long-run, it's THEY who benefit more than this Forum], I think CiteHR itself needs to fix/modify some ground-rules.
Why not make some rules EMBEDDED into the Message Posting Form in CiteHR that will PREVENT THE POSTING if there are Spelling mistakes, grammar mistakes, sms language, etc? There are many sites that show * where the fields are mandatory--if such fields aren't filled-in, then the Form isn't accepted. Maybe CiteHR can adopt a similar practice--instead of * symbols, CiteHR can track specific category of faults/mistakes to stop the Posting from going thru unless corrected.
Food for thought. Any comments?
29th January 2011 From India, Hyderabad
While I agree with Sriram, I really do not think the Moderators can keep proofreading all the time. In any case there are a number of youngsters who have serious limitations in the English language, attempting to express themselves and they are bound to be a lot of mistakes in their inputs.
However, that is no excuse for casual questioning and for students trying to get ready made solutions. The use of SMS language is another ill that plagues this forum. In my view to curb this, we must educate the more serious Citehr users to respond only to those serious questions that are well framed and require expert guidance. This should act as a deterrent to those students in particular who try to get ready made answers to assignments.
Ignoring poorly drafted questions, casually sought explanations and queries that are in the nature of using the forum as a short cut to assignment answers would definitely act as a good filter to ensure better quality of queries and well drafted inputs become the order of the day.
29th January 2011 From India, Mumbai
As said by Mr. Jacob and (Cite Contribution) it is not looking nice to see such a grammatical and spelling mistakes in the threads.
Some People are using the Chat langauge and SMS language, which required to be avoided. In SMS there are some restriction for letters. So it was accepted in SMS. In Chat quick reply sought, so there are the shortcut words and spell mistakes are accepted. For See You C U, am M, these are not easily understood for every one.
Thank you Mr. Sriram for initiating such a useful thread, which will alert at least some people for correcting themselves.
I am not telling that everyone posting here are fully conversant with language. But the purpose of language is to convey their querries and feelings to other in correct sense. In some cases it got failed and the replies will be of different nature.
To avoid such circastic situation the grammatical and spelling mistakes can be avoided.
With warm regards
30th January 2011 From India, Kumbakonam
I beg to disagree with you all on spelling and grammar mistakes by the members of the forum. There are members who are not very proficient with English language it does not mean that we should not respond to their queries or their queries are not genuine.
Many renowned leaders in their fields are here undoubtedly, but that does not mean that a person with a Hindi medium background or any such educational background are not allowed to post their queries. English language is no parameter to judge the knowledge of such people here on the forum. I know many active and popular members on the forum and their written communication skills are genuinely not up to the mark.
Yes, I agree that sms language or chat language should not be used, and i guess with our intervention these things will be in control.
Friends this is a learning platform and there are no bindings to the learnings, if at all they require some help in improving their written skills lets help them.
30th January 2011 From India, Delhi
Looks like the main point is getting diverted.
Like I mentioned in my earlier posting, let not the COMPLETE onus of using/learning the right language be only on the members of this Forum--Archna has given the right reasons why this expectation is unreasonable & impractical.
The Forum also needs to do it's bit by adopting measures that will not only enhance the overall capacity of the members to improve & learn thru the Forum itself. The reason why I suggested that "CiteHR can track specific category of faults/mistakes to stop the Posting from going thru unless corrected".
In fact, this is not very difficult or unrealistic. CiteHR has already in place the Spellchecker. Looking from a Software Developer's point-of-view, the SpellChecker right now is programmed only to alert about the spelling mistakes--leaving what to do to the individual typing the message. Minor modifications/changes can be done to ensure that the Posting is blocked unless the mistakes are corrected. To what extent & which mistakes ought to be allowed/passed may need to be decided--keeping in view the various profiles of the members--as Archna mentioned.
In this context, I agree with her--pl see the following recent Thread where multiple reasons are given by many why CiteHR is so liked by the professionals: https://www.citehr.com/308070-citehr-best.html
Apart from the quality of responses they get, another factor is that they get the responses without any link to their Current standing or position.
As seniors, I think it's our role to guide others--BUT without condoning their lapses/mistakes AND at the same time ensuring a method/avenue is provided to correct themselves. In a way, CiteHR would or could evolve as a Forum that indirectly contributes the wholesome improvement of the skills of such persons AND @ the same time ensure the overall caliber & standards of this Forum are maintained.
I agree with B. Jacob that the Moderators can keep proofreading all the time. This is what I thought could get handled when I suggested incorporating into the Posting Software means to handle such issues, even before B. Jacob posted his reply, since it's humanly impractical for anyone to just keep on correcting others' language issues--I think the Moderators have better things to do. That's where 'Automating' this aspect helps. After all, we live amidst computers--so why not utilize it much better for everyone's benefit?
30th January 2011 From India, Hyderabad
I am not sure whether we should be discussing this point in the general forum. It has been considered by Moderators and Senior Members' Group. Even contributor to the discussion in this thread have used SMS language; I think it has become a habit with some.
Grammar and spelling mistakes or some typos can be ignored, if the query makes sense. However posts such as those at https://www.citehr.com/274413-work-l...tionnaire.html are most annoying.
Have a nice day
30th January 2011 From United Kingdom
Thanks for such wonderful feed backs and thoughts on this issue.
I agree with Ms. Harini on the point that most of the member are “either immediate passed outs or yet to come out from college”. In this era, where English is taught even at the elementary level, a person who is in college / passed out is expected to be conversant in English and should be able to communicate effectively, without grammar mistakes. It’s really shocking to see members posting threads with not even a grammatically correct sentence. Seniors can only point out the mistakes and direct them to learn and correct the language. Finally, it should come from with in and change for the better.
Mr. T Satheesh has put forward a very tricky question to the moderators, whether to implant a rule with regard to the posting of incorrect threads. I would appreciate such an initiative by Citehr but it should in no way hinder the “learning experience” of this forum. No member should leave / ignore this forum, for the complexity it might demand when such rules are implemented. A process by which all incorrect postings are displayed in the forum after a check / correction by senior members / moderators should be adopted. This will ensure that a member’s query is address in the best possible manner. (This can either be a manual process or an automated one as suggested by Mr. TS)
Ms. Archana presented a different perceptive of this issue. I would definitely agree to her point that language should not be a hindrance in expressing themselves and not a parameter to judge the knowledge, but given the circumstances of this forum, which is essentially one of the most sought after HR blog, should maintain minimum levels of standards with regard to usage of English language. An idea is ideal only when the possessor expresses it to the people clearly and effectively.
As clearly indicated by Ms. (Cite Contribution), “Absence of intent to put an effort” – is the most serious issue to be addressed with in. Unless and until members decide to change, this issue will remain to haunt this forum. Lets hope what we have discussed here in this thread will be a eye opener to everyone.
31st January 2011 From India, Mumbai
The main reasons I had suggested some sort of 'automated' solution/mechanism to VET the postings--MIND YOU NOT FILTER--are as below:
1] The point that (Cite Contribution) raised--'...........There are leaders in this community, who would not have been, within our reach.......'. I think the point she was trying to make was this: it isn't right to waste the time of such people whose time is more valuable than many others'--since that's what happens when anyone tries to read such incomprehensible postings & further still tries to understand it's meaning, just because he/she wants to contribute to this Forum. That's unfair.
When such a vetting device is in place, such situations are minimized to the maximum--even if not 100% ruled-out.
2] The point that Archna raised--'........does not mean that a person with a Hindi medium background......'. Though she referred to non-English medium persons, I think many English medium educated persons can be put into the same slot--no pun intended pl--thanks to the varying standards of education across the country. I am sometimes surprised & I think Sriram could be wrong here.
This is where such a mechanism will help both the other members of the Forum [in terms of better English presentation] AND such persons too who want to benefit from this Forum. This would give those with poor English skills to improve themselves--without a special effort on that front, since their Postings would not be accepted until they type in correctly. A sort of fringe Benefit--albeit, I think, a very important one in the long run--of this mechanism.
To explain this, let's take the case of admission to IIMs & other MBA colleges. If one wants to get admitted into any IIM, would he/she not strive to RAISE TO THAT LEVEL? The same goes to this mechanism--it maintains the standards of the Forum & at the same time aids/assists those who aren't of the same standard to participate in this Forum.
3] This is where (Cite Contribution)'s other point comes into picture--'Absence of intent to put an effort'. If a person wants to participate in this Forum seriously, instead of frivolously as seems to be the case for many now-a-days, then they better put in the extra effort. It's basically RAISING THEIR STANDARDS THAN ASKING/EXPECTING OTHERS TO LOWER THEIR STANDARDS in which the Forum is ready to extend a helping hand. It's upto the individual concerned to decide if that extra effort is worth it--in terms of the knowledge gained & shared.
The primary motive of CiteHR has, as I see it, always been to reach-out to the max number of HR professionals thru the means of sharing experiences & knowledge-base, rather than a club sort of thing for HR persons. I think this Objective would not only be guarded but enhanced in the long-run by adopting such measures. I already see a lot of other nationals participating in this Forum.
Any bouquets or brickbats?
31st January 2011 From India, Hyderabad
Firstly, I agree with Archna - our country is full of people who are not proficient in English. By what we see - people are still unable to read and understand general website guidelines - they would send in their queries from the "contact us" form. We receive about 100-200 such misguided queries every day. Even in the urban population - proficiency in written English is very low.
I think pointing out these English errors is important but it needs to be done politely so that they are taken constructively. To many... this harping to be "polite" may seem repetitive - but its very important in a text-only medium and specially coming from senior members it will portray our [citehr's] overall demeanor towards members. Please remember anything you write will be read over and over again and people will form an opinion about our network by what they read and how they see other people being treated.
Now, let me try to explain what we have done to improve the quality of the time spent by our senior members over here.
1. Recommendations: This works as a collective filter - if you reply on any thread and someone if following you - they get notified through the recommendations tab. This way if you follow all the other seniors you will know what they think of as important queries and you can read and participate in them.
2. Improved and highlighted research feature to help reduce repetitive queries.
3. Closing of all threads older than 1 year. Earlier if anyone would reply to any old thread - even with a simple "Thank You" - the thread would show up on the recent threads section. By closing these old threads this has stopped.
4. Better flow in the interface to help users post their threads in the correct section. Although it hasn't stopped people from posting in the wrong sections but it has reduced the occurrence.
5. Help groups have been created for news users and are highlighted with a notification when they first log in.
Features in the near future
1. Notifications area on the home page to inform people instantaneously about replies in the threads, discussions they are participating in - this will help improve the number of quality discussions.
2. Addition of a "accredit" system for posts to help identify the best posts in a thread. This will also help in identifying the most authentic posts - accredited by other members.
Finally, to acknowledge tajsateesh's idea - adding a stringent system which will not allow people to post if there are spelling or grammatical errors will cause more confusion among people - many of whom would probably not even be aware of how to correct the sentences. Also, it'll be one more deterrence in the posting process - which we would like to avoid and look for alternative ways to improve the topic selection for our members.
I would suggest that we try to point out the English grammar or spelling mistakes in a non-emotional and direct way - just so that we are consistent and constructive. We can even mention our concern by saying - "Proper language is important for professional growth." or something like that.
3rd February 2011 From India, Gurgaon
It's nice to see the actions that have been taken & planned to be taken.
Reg your suggestion about messages like "Proper language is important for professional growth." or something like that to handle the spelling/grammatical errors: it's a good idea.
Or it could also be something like: 'if you want an early response to your thread, pl ensure your posting is grammatically right' or a similar line. This would take the message more closer to the individual posting the thread, rather than being 'impersonal'. Just give it a thought.
But I only hope [seriously] that our co-professionals don't give such guidance messages the same/similar importance smokers give to the message ;smoking kills you' on the cigarette packs.
Let's give it a shot--to be optimistic. Let's cross the bridge when it comes--in case such messages too don't improve the situation.
4th February 2011 From India, Hyderabad
But due to grammatical Mistakes some important attachment what we are receiving in this Forum should not be blocked. Auto-correct option must be made available in threads for such silly spelling and grammatical mistakes.
One fine day we can achieve 100% accuracy in posts.
With warm regards
4th February 2011 From India, Kumbakonam
I agree with you.
Looks like you seem to have got the impression that I am not optimistic.
All I follow is this quote always: Work for the Best, but prepare for the worst. That way we don't end up getting disappointed & demoralized in a worst-case-scenario. It also helps our response times & reflexes to be pretty fast in such situations, if & when they come. This may sound philosophical, but by experience, I also know it's practical & realistic.
After all: the optimists invented the airplane & pessimists invented the parachute :-)
4th February 2011 From India, Hyderabad
My greetings to you all.
First let me appreciate the initiative taken by our member Sriram Warrier as well as the other members for sharing their intellectual thoughts.
I am delighted to share my humble thoughts on this very interesting post.
Let me share with you some basics about writing skills.
Effective written communication relies on correct grammar and spelling.
Correct grammar and spelling makes a positive impression on readers, which is particularly important in business and academic communications.
Everyone makes the occasional grammar or spelling mistake. But if we make them frequently enough in our writing, our credibility goes way down.
Readers often do not notice good grammar because the text is easily understood and enjoyable to read.
But readers do notice confusing grammatical errors that force them to re-read text and fumble for the author’s meaning.
While automated spell-checkers catch many spelling mistakes, they cannot catch many errors in usage.
For an example, writing “affect” for “effect” would be incorrect usage, but a spell-checker may miss the error because the word is spelled correctly.
Technology has the limitation as it can not empathize the feeling of the author.
We have transcended from Shakespeare’s era to Google era,resuting a classical dilution.
Let us accept the reality and become a solution-finder to a solution-seeker.
Somewhere I have read an adage that says:
“The impact of the messanger is always greater than the mere message.”
Best wishes to all participants of this meaningful post.
5th February 2011 From India, Madras
I am not intended to say against anyone's view. I only conveyed my mere feeling.
I really seek apology if my words hurts you. If the Users are avoiding SMS and Chat Language then 40% and in this website Spell check and sentence auto correction facility made available then another 35% mistakes can come down. Then left out 25 to 30% can be rectified only by proper education (will our education System help us) and experience.
Once upon a time English was knowledge but in present scenario English is only a language and it not at all a knowledge.
Hope this site as knowledge sharing media and not language sharing media.
Further I reiterate here my intention of writing is to explain my view only and not to hurt anyone's personal feelings.
With warm regards
5th February 2011 From India, Kumbakonam
Appreciate the comments / posts from Mr. AVS. I strongly feel, his words were mere reflections of what other member felt at heart and wanted to say / listen to.
Seems we don't have a clear cut solution in hand now on how to go about this issue, lets stop crying over the spilled milk and think of a solution / action which will minimize the errors and facilitate better / effective information flow.
Taking a cue from Mr. Bhaskar's 40 : 35 : 25 % rule, why don we jointly try to enhance the language skills of our members. We can plan to initiate posting on General Grammar, Writing Skills , Communication Etiquette etc. Try and involve members to contribute to the threads by interactive postings and discussions.
Hope it will bring in some sense of accountability in the minds of members to contribute without errors / mistakes.
5th February 2011 From India, Mumbai
Greetings to you.
Thanks for your nice message that gives us a correct direction in finding a solution.
Let us all get into action and move forward.
I once again appreciate your initiative taken in this suject.
With warm regards.
5th February 2011 From India, Madras
One of the main positive aspects of this Forum is 'to agree to disagree'--unlike many other HR portals/forums. There's no question of feeling bad or hurt. Let's reserve/leave that part to the politicians :-)
Coming to Sriram's new suggestion, looks good & doable.
Let's get going.
5th February 2011 From India, Hyderabad
Happy Sunday Morning.
Thanks for Mr Warrier and others for paricipating in this useful post.
I have a pleasure to do a kick-start on this subject and started the planned project.
Please see my today's post in the below link.
I thank you all for giving me this wonderful opportunity.
Have a nice Sunday.
6th February 2011 From India, Madras
Our members can take guidance from Grammer Book and before posting anything they can feed the same in MS Word and do spell check and then they can paste it as their contribution.
With warm regards
6th February 2011 From India, Kumbakonam
Thank you for the concerns raised. Besides the issues discussed, I believe that other factors have aggravated the situation as it is now. Globalization has brought the world close to the doorstep of many people. As technology advances and people get hooked on to the Internet a number of problems arise.
There could be issues like people using this medium who have learned English as a second language. In view of this, they may not be able to express themselves very well. This reason, notwithstanding, as people who are sharing knowledge I want to endorse your suggestion that we need to make use of the spell check facility to help us communicate effectively.
12th February 2011 From Ghana
Many moderators and members have raised this issue in earlier discussions also. Along with above mentioned problem, I would like to add few more issues that are at very rampant in citehr, the issues are as following.
Problem 1:-Too many posts in joke section, and discussion and games which are not relevant to HR issues, there is no harm in sharing a laugh, but at what prices is the question we all need to analyse. To many discussions of casual nature consumes precious cyber space.
Solution:- Complete deleting of posts in humor forum every 15 days.
Problem 2:- Posting information,contents on forums which are not related to the posts, for example posting Job opening or consultant listing under the forum for Employee Recruitment Techniques, Process And Sourcing.
Solution:- Sending an alert to the author of the post on click of a button by the moderator, when they find posts of above nature. Author should be given 48 hours to respond to take the necessary action, failing which the post gets deleted on completion of 48 hours.
Problem 3:- Inability to identify the nature of the post at first look, example:- Subject - Performance Incentive, reading this subject its very difficult to understand if there is solution, a suggest, new approach towards performance incentives or if the person is seeking information on Performance Incentives. Post such creates confusion and creates problem in regards to both new and old members
Solution:- Label posts on the basis on their nature, that is the author when posting on forum, should be required to highlight the nature of post, like if it falls under query, or if it contains attachment or if the author is looking for help.
If there is a goof up again by the author then again there should be a facility wherein Sending an alert to the author of the post on click of a button by the moderator should be made possible, when they find posts of above nature. Author should be given 48 hours to respond to take the necessary action, failing which the post gets deleted on completion of 48 hours.
24th March 2011 From India, Mumbai
(Cite Contribution) has said it right--you did hit the Bull's Eye.
One thing that's set CiteHR different from other portals is this very attitude or rather way of looking @ things/issues. The suggestion of solution(s) go along with the highlighting of a problem, especially from seniors like you.
I recollect a popular advt jingle: "It's different" :-).
I do hope these suggested solutions are implemented ASAP. In a way, it will force the new users to 'LEARN' the correct practices along the way.
30th March 2011 From India, Hyderabad
Beginners can make use of it.
6th April 2011 From India, Kumbakonam
I forgot to address one more issue.
Problem 4:- Question of same nature and at times same questions repeated continuously.
Solution:- Every main section with sub-section should contain FAQ's for old and new members to read. Any question other than the standard FAQ's only needs to be answered . This way repeated questions can be avoided and thus forum can be used for more serious and in depth discussions.
Main section:-HR Stuff.
Sub section:- Labour and Employee Relation
In the above sub section there should be a standard FAQ's which would provide basic and standard information to members about PF,ESIC, Maternity benefit etc. This FAQs would contain standard information only. And this FAQ should be updated as per the latest queries answered.
9th April 2011 From India, Mumbai