Ash Mathew
Recruitments, Training`
Chandan2ykpankaj
Manager - Hr
Kavita Paul
Recruitment, Hr Operations
Nashbramhall
Learning & Teaching Fellow (retired)
K.Ravi
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Bhajiya
Compensation And Policy
Jayesh Yohannan
Hr Generalist Functions
+6 Others

Thread Started by #just4sandeep

Why telecom or Fmcg company will not intrest to hire people from Pharma and Insurane industry in Sales and Marketing ????
23rd May 2009 From India, Bhubaneswar
Hi Sandeep,
Probably because the nature of sales is entirely different, the approach to teh market is different, the seggregation is different. The Marketing activities and promotional strategies are entirely different.
It all depends on criteria the individual company sets :-)
Take Care!
23rd May 2009 From India, Madras
India is biten by brahmin bug of purity...
They refine all aspects of life and loose best talent in the market who is more efficient and creative because of so many misconceptions of specialiszations.......
In the west, all graduates are doing all kins of jobs and they do not find difficulties in working another profession....
Partho
23rd May 2009 From Saudi Arabia
And that is how in the west they hire without using their head... and when they lose their jobs or when recession hits, they run to countries like India hunting for jobs... oh so sad.
And the vice verca too - when people dont get the job here in our country with good cos, or lose confidence on self - they run outside...you see, there any graduate is hired for any job :-D:-D

23rd May 2009 From India, Madras
Hi Ash,
You have misconception about west....:(
No one in west prefer India.:confused:
India is least preferred destination after Saudi Arabia......:icon10:
Westeren profesional joins on helm of affairs in India operations of MNC and they work for change and their package is something beyond imagination. Very few western professional work in India with some special previleage..:-P
Sofar as recruitment is concern west HR is attract, retain and reward strategy hence no faltu fanda works here. Employees knows their jobs and organization knows its optential and social responsibility. :-D
No exploitations........see how many frustration, victmization, exploitation mails you read on this forum...this is HR? How indian companies manage HR and treat employees like 18 century...labour management:idea:
Partho
Partho
23rd May 2009 From Saudi Arabia
Parthasarathy, it would have been good if you could focus on teh problem and see what solutions you can give. None of us are here to claim which country is better or which is not.

If you say that you are working in aplace where things are really good, why dont you suggest some of those methods.

And I feel sorry for you - you claim that this forum is full of problems by Indian people...do you remember, there was a time (and still continues) where you have posted problems continuosly, and you wre even asked by a few people if you really had those problems.

A problem is not nation specific, it is person specific. What I see as a probloem, may not be a problem for you. What you see as a problem...may really look silly to me. I guess the best way to deal with these situations are by providing solutions and not commenting on the Nation


[Quote: Parthasarthy

You have misconception about west....:(
No one in west prefer India.:confused:
India is least preferred destination after Saudi Arabia......:icon10:

Westeren profesional joins on helm of affairs in India operations of MNC and they work for change and their package is something beyond imagination. Very few western professional work in India with some special previleage..:-P

Sofar as recruitment is concern west HR is attract, retain and reward strategy hence no faltu fanda works here. Employees knows their jobs and organization knows its optential and social responsibility. :-D

No exploitations........see how many frustration, victmization, exploitation mails you read on this forum...this is HR? How indian companies manage HR and treat employees like 18 century...labour management:idea:

Partho

Partho[/QUOTE]
23rd May 2009 From India, Madras
Dear Sandeep,

Obviously because of nature of sales. No body will prefer a person who needs new contact to develop rather then experienced person who has already a good grip in particular sales.


Regards

Pankaj Chandan
23rd May 2009 From India, New delhi
Hey Ash,

I like your answers….You are great philosopher. I know country has not fault its people who practice wrong are problems. I respect your patriotism.
Yes I agreed, I did posted many problems and citehr is great but I was discussing about nature of HR problems being discussed which tells us lot about how employees in India are deprived of their rights and exploited.
I hope you don’t misunderstand me.

Regards,

Partho.
23rd May 2009 From Saudi Arabia
[QUOTE=Ash Mathew;707941]Parthasarathy, it would have been good if you could focus on teh problem and see what solutions you can give. None of us are here to claim which country is better or which is not.
If you say that you are working in aplace where things are really good, why dont you suggest some of those methods.
And I feel sorry for you - you claim that this forum is full of problems by Indian people...do you remember, there was a time (and still continues) where you have posted problems continuosly, and you wre even asked by a few people if you really had those problems.
A problem is not nation specific, it is person specific. What I see as a probloem, may not be a problem for you. What you see as a problem...may really look silly to me. I guess the best way to deal with these situations are by providing solutions and not commenting on the Nation
Great Reply partha is in Australia and he seems to have maximum no of problems.... :confused::confused::confused:

23rd May 2009 From India, Pune
Dear if u remember u were not discussing the nature of hR problems when asked by me, and other members you confirmed that in real you were facing such problems in your job also you mentioned that since you work hard you find so many problems remember?????????? anything ????????????? :icon1::icon1:
23rd May 2009 From India, Pune
Sandeep put the same message on two strings. This string seems to have had more replies than the other and I have copied my message posted on the other string.
Sandeep
Like so many, you also pose a very general question. Hence, it becomes difficult to answer.
I would say that it all depends upon what job you are seeking. I started out as an Electrical Engr, changed my field to Industrial Engineering. Then, I had no problem from moving from Eng to FCMG.
I got a break to teach part-time while working for a FCMG company; I also did my MSc, while working. Then I moved to teaching without a problem (All in UK).
Similarly, I know of people in marketing who have moved from Hewlet Packard to Adobe, Adobe to Symantec, and from Symantec to Avaya (a telecom firm).
So, like Sam has said, it all depends upon what you can offer.
Have a nice weekend.
Simhan
23rd May 2009 From United Kingdom
Ravi Dear,
I think its enough, don't add fuel in fire.....:-D
Ash, Partho expressed their opinions in best possible manner. Difference in opinions is part of life and we have to accept diversity in personalities of different members.
This diversity makes citehr most coveted place.
Cheers.............
Warm Regards,
Abraham

23rd May 2009 From Saudi Arabia
Partho, You did get to her backfiring at you man, you memories are short lives... Ash backfired at you on your essay and thesis comments........ Am I right,,,,,,,,,,,,,:-P Bhajiya
23rd May 2009 From Saudi Arabia
Dear Sandeep ,

The reason is if you go for sales of Financial product or Pharma product you need knowledge of that perticular product , why IRDA training is given to any one its because of knowledge of various policy is required to sell that perticular product and for pharma you may have seen B.Pharma , D. Pharma , B.Sc. graduates prefered because of their kowledge .

You need to understand one more thing sales and marketing both are two different field sales is a part of marketing , marketing is very vast field it includes everything sales, telesales, advertising etc and etc ok

In insurance or other financial product selling the target is of sales same in pharma sales revenue generation , in insurance you make agents in pharma you contact distributors ok

in both the manners you are generating sles of your product that gives revenue to your company .

So in FMCG you need to do marketing you need to make distributors , you need to introduce your product into market , you make people or targeted media aware of your product or services so in FMCG you are not selling you are marketing the product upto some extent in telecom also .

But its your misconception ...................................... regarding telecom , pharma and insurance many of my friends change their jobs from Finance to telecom .Ya its true FMCG is bit different because revenue generation idea is different their .

One thing i would like to say to Mr. Partha Sarthy being an Indian National it heart us to listen any thing wrong about our country so sir please mind your language from next time , donmt say anything wrong about anyone's country because it directly hurt our sentiments and love toward our country let me tell you One of my uncle hold a vey good position in reputed s/w company in US when any one ask him about his success he simply says it's all because of my country my nation indian who make me able to have this position today .

And asha for you " Kuch Bhi DIL PE MAT LE YAAR "

Regards

Shine
23rd May 2009 From India, Bhopal
Not right. Kindly stop assuming things that dont make much sense :-) Pls see if we can stop this here and discuss about the topic.
23rd May 2009 From India, Madras
I think it is better to keep to the topic and forum members refrain from commenting on the rights or wrongs of other’s way of replying. Simhan
23rd May 2009 From United Kingdom
Read question carefully.
What is analogy of:
Telecom and FMCG
Pharma and Insurance
One is manufacturing and another is serivce provider both are clubbed in one basket is not correct.
it should be;
Telocom and Insurance
Pharma & FMCG....
I focused on subject and found this discripency but people as usual without using mind starts replying and arguing....
What's this ?
Some thing is wrong with question
Partho
23rd May 2009 From Saudi Arabia
The question is not wrong, it is true that the FMCG and the telecom do not prefer sales people from insuarance background, dont know if the same applies to pharma also.
The sales approach of FMCG & telecom is different from insurance that might be the reason I can figure out.
FMCG & telecom depends on dealer-distribution network for sales while in insurance it is through hiring agents or direct selling or bancasurance channel

23rd May 2009 From India, Calcutta
Hi Friends,

The Posts were encouraging … and I think every body was right in their assumptions.
I Truly Agree with ‘Shine’ and making ‘India Shining’ through his views regarding the Post by Mr. Sandeep .

But yes I would like to share with you regarding the diversities associated with ‘Western’ and ‘Eastern’ practices, since I felt to through some light in this regard.

I agree with Mr. Partha Sarathi for his statement (I don’t know how many CHR Friends will forgive me for that). But his view of Performance Being (Partha – its not recruitment dear) is entirely Reward strategy. Its really True. Why Because the Western People (Mostly Americans) have to really prove out their associations 24 x 7. Whether it be in an organization or be it in his own home. (Perhaps the reason for having high divorce rates). They know that they have to perform everywhere and that is what their motivation is. Hence they don’t mind to have a Contract System of employment and they always perform in this background. And also, they know that if they don’t perform they are out (in Both Home & Work). And that is why Many Management Schools Prosper in the West giving guidance to Management aspirators and giving chances to those who want to Horne their skills for making success. (But Alas – Very Less Management Thoughts Succeeds). (Theory Y)

But, at the same time in Japan (East), they have a bonding relation. Either with the Family or with the employer ( I am sorry Partha for this). Here for Japanese, An Employment means a Long Term Employment ( Not like West) and they enter here as a worker and as per their capability & Competency they grow up by sheer hard work. There is No Management Schools, but I must say – most management theories have originated from them (KANBAN, KAIZEN, JIT Concept etc. to name a few) and has been widely accepted and followed in West. They work with a commitment & Patriotic Sense since they have no fear of retrenchments, since capable people are always placed at the right positions through Internal Filtering. (Theory Z)

And Finally India (Mid between America & Japan) has a Lot of Similarities & also Dis-similarities of both the Practices. We have a both sides of the same coin – specifically we allow a Contract system, a Performance oriented culture and also on the other side we share a strong emotional, cultural & Family Bond.

My sense of raising this is that we cannot copy and paste what other cultures follow simply. We have a varied array of Industries working and they support various management philosophies. It might be a gain or a Looser, I can’t say. But yes our way is different.

Regards,

Jayesh Yohannan
23rd May 2009
Oh its actully sad,that after being potental still there are some unhealthy HR Policies which makes no-sense.
Regarding Telecom,we understan that most of companies have no pocah with other Telecom Companies.Thats understandable..But coming from Insurance Sector and joing Telecom,isnt a problem at all.

Dont loose hope buddy,there are still some good HR's & HR policies companies have,so check out for 1,m sure you will not be disapointed.I beliv there may be still some companies who hire ones from Pharma & other Domains.These people fail to understand that a Sales person can sell anything if they are hiring right professional considering his last profile,HR Formalitiz n mportantly understandg caliber of person they are hiring

A sales person is sales-oriented person with full confidence & substance,No one can beat ull..Its just that some companies would loose some potential people coz of thr no-sense policies & non-elevnt HR's.Which is actlly sad.

But no woriz Keep up the faith buddy am sure you will get what you desrve..

Trust me there are lots of Sales Job in market & evn in the time of recessions,thesesales jobs are being paid highly..Can search on job-portals like naukri,monster,etc you would find the in bulk

Sales people should never be disapointed.Its the company who is loosing 1 not ull,there are lots of sales job in Market.If you not getting in 1 company coz of thr no-sense policy,dnt giveup try somewhere else.The calier of any sales professional is never limited.

Wish you lots of Luck & Good-Will.
24th May 2009 From India, Mumbai
why telecom or Fmcg company will not intrest to hire people from Pharma and insurance

I may not have the best words to give an answer to this question, still I would like to say that :

1. In telecom and FMGC, it require good understanding of Products, market and relationship with Key persons as well as good grip and understanding of the business.

2. For any Products Marketing, one must have thorough knowledge of the product and understanding of the nature of business, as Marketing for OEM / Operators would be totally different then Vendors.

3. Why would any Organization prefer any less competent candidate for a totally different domain, when recruitment are based on the funda: 'to find the best candidate at the right time for the right place'.

4. If any one is very keen to Join Telecom and FMCG then they must get thaurough knowledge of the Products, and market. Some of the Organizations perfer B.E, B.Tech for Telecom, this also must be henderence to some of MBA in Marketing who are atcualy very good in perticuler field.

Hi Ash, good reply am happy to see another patriotic HR.

:icon1:
24th May 2009 From India, Delhi
For marketing of any products the following two basic things required..
1. Product Knowledge
2. Product Application
rest is terms and conditions of payment, gurantee/warrenty period and suply chain management.......
Rest is time pass.........
Bhajiya
24th May 2009 From Saudi Arabia
Dear Bhajiya,

I think you are mixing up Sales, Marketing and Product Distribution Techniques.

It’s not just Product Knowledge but it’s rather ‘How the product is Positioned’ & ‘Targeted’ which drives the success of a Particular Sales Person.

If you look into FMCG & Telecom you need to develop parties (Distributors & Retailers), Fix the Targets for each Parties in his territory, Negotiate their Incentive Pattern with respect to the Market Demand & Supply. It really requires specific skills which not only desires the Target orientness, but also skill relating to negotiation, Demand forecasting and ability to Push the sales of a product through the parties. Hence any person who have a Knack of these things can be successful in Sales here.

But, if you look into the Sales Pattern of Pharma Industry, the Sales people have to frequent the doctors and make them as brand ambassadors and push the sales. Here we only need persons who are techno oriented about the Medicine, it’s combination particulars and most importantly how you cozy up with your Ambassador with gifts & Royalties. Your Ambassador will in turn pull the demand from the retailers. Hence a Likely person will be a D. Pharm / B. Pharm / B. Sc Graduate who can explain the Technicalities Better.

At the other end, In Insurance - you have to sell the 'Risk' to the customer rather the 'Insurance'. The more you highlight and make the customer’s aware of the risks, the more successful you will be. But here you will have to deal first with your Advisors & Agent who will be your sales guys, Train them on Insurance Terminologies, Plan Targets for every body, support & guide them and follow up to convince their customers for you to be successful. Hence Likely person would be a B. Com / MBA (Finance)/ MBA (Marketing) with Commerce Background.

Hence, You see a variable pattern of 'Skills - Competency Match' required for 'Selling the Products' in each of the Industry and thus after being in a particular industry for a long time it takes time to know the Sales tricks and Trade Secrets of any other Industry. Hence the Management generally prefers a guy / girl who has been generally trained in his own industry to save upon the Opportunity Cost & Training Costs.

With regards,

Jayesh Yohannan


24th May 2009
Well, Pharma, telecom or insurance the domain doesnt matter.
A sales person is a sales person,he can sell anything.
Jus depends upon hiring a person with good caliber & zeal.
''Training'' wouldnt been there than.
The problem exists in HR in that case if they have this caliber of not appreciating people from other domain & lacking the caliber of choosng one having combination of ''Knowledge + Potential''..rather than just having knowledge and no abilty to sell the products.
Dont worry,buddy there are still companies existing who hires people with good caliber & potential..Keep Trying.
Good Luck
24th May 2009 From India, Mumbai
Well Ms. Rashmi, I appreciate, but when you say – Knowledge + Potential, I ask You - ‘Knowledge’ based on what ???
When India we are having a Division of Labour system, we are equally equipping our knowledge based upon our Interests. Hence when a Medical Representative having B. Pharma may not understand the Financial Tools & Jargons of an Insurance / Financial Industry. Hence you are most likely to take more time to learn those… Hence How can he ‘deliver’ his Potential when an MR is being recruited as Sales Rep. for Insurance / FMCG / Durable Products / Telecomm Products. ???'
Please refer - Right Person at the Right Job and at the Right Time.


24th May 2009
Most of the marketing profesionals are MBA in Marketing after their Graduiation in Science or Commerce.
Thie B.Phamra & D.Pharma introduced in early 1990's before that all Medical Representatives were only BSc. Look We have recruited many sales professional but all of them were not specialised but they knows how to close deal and negotiate, how to quote the price and many such tricks of trades.
For Sales and marketing no speciualization except expereince is required. basically I have appointed many Country Head - Marketing but none were specialsied in specific fields if we are in life saving jackets that doesnot mean he should be rubber technologist to become sales professional for our product.
This is thinking is something unusual from mainstream where as I said we Indians are bitten by the barahminism bug...and we search purity in all aspects of life that is not correct aproach in the process we loose many good talent beause of out dogmatism (Bug).
Partho


24th May 2009 From Saudi Arabia
Dear Partho,
I am Sorry , but I did not buy your arguments.
If your company is making business by selling a Life Saving Jacket and for suppose – you appoint a mediocre Manager who had never known about your product, its Quality specifications, its Performance in different Temperature conditions, I don’t think he can be able to connect with your product and sell your product to various customer’s word wide - since you don’t know how your product will perform in various conditions. And Being your product so crucial, and In fact if it would have been me, I would never take any chances which keep my company and it’s stakeholders in jeopardy. Excuse Me.
And if you think that Sales means managing the Target because one had an experience in that, that even you can also do it …. No need to purify Yourself.
But please don’t post any unnecessary arguments that will lead to no-where. Thanks.
regards / Jayesh

24th May 2009
Weel Jayesh,

As i have mentioned Knowledge + potential makes diffrence rather than just having Knowledge and no potential to sell things..

So, if you want to know what ''Knowledge'' means, its nothing but the product knowledge.. If provided a product knowledge or Training is offered to right person having caliber to capture things,it wont make a big diffrence.Coz ultimately one with right knowledge & ability to sell things can only be an asset.

Its not a medical line, wherin only and only a Doctor can treat patients.
Its Sales..Sales line i pesonally feel is not at all a limited profile.From broader point of view looking from HR side
I think a person from an insurance or telecom given good product knowledge about pharm or viceversa,from A to Z,he can be an asset.
But again companies and HR's are limited to certain policies which sometimes really makes no-sense....
I understand 1st priority should be given to one from pharma line for pharma ''sales'' job,etc.But its unhealthy practice of not giving an opportunity for an insurance person entering Telecom or vice-versa..Its Sales..Its not medicine ,Navy or Other line..

It makes no sense to not giv opportunitiz to individual pertaining to '' Sales'' profile...One should be liberal to choose and opportunity should be given to masses..Its not necessary that an Actor is meant only to Act.He can be a Singer, a Dancer, or anything if he has that talent in him & ability & zeal to learn things more

Am not here to advice or know on india's labour or to talk on cultures in East or West..as i find it very irrelevant to go out of box...We are here to talk on how we can help massess to accquire right job..And the best way is by giving an opportunity to a Right Person.

Eg:I evn think that MBA is just a formality
Evn an undergrad if given a good grilling & if he or she has the ability to learn things, thn that person should also be given an oppotunity..DhiruBhai Ambani, Bill Gates, etc was not any MBA..

Its jsut that opportunitiz given to an individual makes diffrence & its all in our hands..Since we are the ones to make company policies.

Rashmi Bhalerao
24th May 2009 From India, Mumbai
Well Ma’m I duly acknowledge your point of view..
You have your bargains and I have my weights… My notion is – Lets Learn from each other rather than Brick batting…
As I said we are all right in our suggessions.. But your & Mine applications Changes as situations changes… Lets learn and Encourage others to follow.. I posted what I knew.. It depends upto you & our friends to experience it.. we have our lifetime for that.. what we write here may not be worthy after 5 Years down– ‘Remember Change’.. we should always be forward looking to new suggestions & experiences.

Sorry if I might have hurt many ideologies in the making..


24th May 2009
Dear seniors,
I think it was a wonderful and healthy discussion about this topic..but i think sales person can sale everything depend upon there knowledge ,capacity and Zeal to learn everything provided by training.
As asha ji is rightly said the nature of sales is entirely different in TELECOM and FMCG. But one thing is Pharma and Insurance people is very Hardcore sales people..they sales both product as well as concept..they are well trained in both the areas,but the problem is this companies ( TELECOM AND FMCG ) will not even given a chance to those people who can really deserve for this job.
As per rashmi ji point of view Its jsut that opportunitiz given to an individual makes diffrence & its all in our hands.
24th May 2009 From India, Bhubaneswar
Hello,

Now this is a late entry compared to my last post here.

Mr. Jayesh Yohannan: That was an interesting debate, and I did learn a few useful things. And Sandeep - this would be the best message: Right talent for the right opportunity, coupled with the right attitude - makes it the perfect match.

As already quoted earlier: when we are looking at knowledge - why should we look at someone else when we already have people possessing knowledge in the "particular" industry we are hiring.

When availability is more/ sufficient, I guess we can go in chosing whats the bet available.

And there are also times when the availability is scare. for example, I was once looking for Plot Sales. Here we have only owners of a huge portion of land doing the sdales by themselves with known groups, or agents/ brokers who do it on behalf of them. A very few good companies are in plot development (purely), and again the quality was not that great (like the kind of person we were looking at).

Something closer to this would have been Apartment / Reseidential houses sales person, but we chose to go in for selecting Insurance or Mutual funds sales person, who would have a good track record in the last 5 years and must be in Manager position.

So if you see the above - its again the availability and then the quality.
25th May 2009 From India, Madras
Dear All,
This discussion is side tracking the major issue due to out of proportion Essay and thesis writings by some members......
HR is not Marketing products but Marketing has HR strategies to recruit best talent in Marketing.
Our discussion has prolonged due to low I.Q. level..........
Kind Regards,
Partho
25th May 2009 From Saudi Arabia
Hi Partha,
I appreciate your observation because I also realised that this seems abnormal discussion taking place on subject which has limited HR scope for intervention as described by you.
We as HR believe talent hunt and if marketing is subject then as HR we focus on his skills,strategic expertise in sales promotion,Product Knowledge and Product Application, Ability to discover Client Inventory, opening new accounts, success rate in closing deals, Presentation Skills etc.
Regards,
Abraham

25th May 2009 From Saudi Arabia
Sandeep,

Its good you realized what's beneficial for you.

The best thing is point is that you have got motivated,thats what matters in the end.
There may be some practical replies,given by some Hr's our here.

But my personal suggestion to you would be never get demotivated anytime by any reply which may be practical ut given in given in unhealthy fashion.

Its not necessay that what xperiance these people had or seen,its evrywhere.Some people are just limited to those old concepts of Selection. Opportunities should be given to evryone & than the best should be selected.But giving opportunities is very mandtry that's my personal point.

Lectures & philosophies keep coming and going.In simple language I would like to tell you that keep yourself open as per your interests & keep trying

There are still good HR policies by some broad-minded HR's who are educated in real sense..So keep your breath holding & never give up..Keep trying since Sales has no limitations..Lots of jobs & lots of opening..Hope there would be some practical HR's rather than bookinsh ones..

Cheers
Rashmi Bhalerao
25th May 2009 From India, Mumbai
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