Hello, can someone please help regarding leave without pay and being absent?
As we encounter newcomers in the office, they sometimes take unplanned leaves despite having no leave balance or fail to inform anyone when taking a day off. My question is, what difference can we make between leave without pay and being absent? In both situations, the company deducts the salary, so employees seem to take it lightly, thinking it's okay to have their salary deducted.
How can I minimize this issue or distinguish between the two types?
Help is needed from one HR professional to another. Thank you.
From India, Delhi
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As we encounter newcomers in the office, they sometimes take unplanned leaves despite having no leave balance or fail to inform anyone when taking a day off. My question is, what difference can we make between leave without pay and being absent? In both situations, the company deducts the salary, so employees seem to take it lightly, thinking it's okay to have their salary deducted.
How can I minimize this issue or distinguish between the two types?
Help is needed from one HR professional to another. Thank you.
From India, Delhi
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In both cases, there will be a loss of pay. The frequency of absenteeism might lead to a disciplinary process and will impact the Performance Management System (PMS). However, approved leave, irrespective of Loss of Pay (LOP), will not have any such impacts.
From India, Bangalore
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653From India, Bangalore
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Hi, Absence always indicates indiscipline. Leave without pay is on permission he is on leave. LWP indicates absence with permission.
From India, Bengaluru
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From India, Bengaluru
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Absence may be authorized or unauthorized. If there is no leave credit or management decides not to sanction the leave for several reasons, then that absence will be considered as without pay.
Without pay leave may be authorized. For instance, if an employee is suffering from illness but has exhausted all their leave, in that case, management may sanction authorized leave without pay.
Taking an excessive number of unauthorized leaves is detrimental to any employee's career.
S K Bandyopadhyay (WB, Howrah) CEO-USD HR Solutions +91 98310 81531
From India, New Delhi
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Without pay leave may be authorized. For instance, if an employee is suffering from illness but has exhausted all their leave, in that case, management may sanction authorized leave without pay.
Taking an excessive number of unauthorized leaves is detrimental to any employee's career.
S K Bandyopadhyay (WB, Howrah) CEO-USD HR Solutions +91 98310 81531
From India, New Delhi
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Leave without pay is authorized but results in a deduction of salary when there are no eligible leaves in credit. This will not be considered misconduct. However, absenteeism occurs when an employee is absent without permission, and the employer does not regularize it with eligible leave or as leave without pay. This may lead to disciplinary action or a break in service affecting gratuity.
Varghese Mathew
9961266966
HR Law Adviser - Trivandrum
From India, Thiruvananthapuram
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Varghese Mathew
9961266966
HR Law Adviser - Trivandrum
From India, Thiruvananthapuram
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Thank you all for your input. How can I minimize the leaves taken by an employee who is still in probation and every time he/she comes with an illness excuse? How many times will you approve it when you know it might be a lie, but still, you can't do anything?
My director asked me to differentiate between LWP (Leave Without Pay) and Absent, even though I have told her that in both cases, the salary will be deducted. Is there any other solution I can add to it because now people take permission for LWP, and they are not bothered if their salary will be deducted for those days.
Please share your suggestions on this as well. Thank you.
From India, Delhi
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My director asked me to differentiate between LWP (Leave Without Pay) and Absent, even though I have told her that in both cases, the salary will be deducted. Is there any other solution I can add to it because now people take permission for LWP, and they are not bothered if their salary will be deducted for those days.
Please share your suggestions on this as well. Thank you.
From India, Delhi
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Dear Annie R,
You have raised the issue of unplanned leave or unplanned leave without information from a legal point of view. However, I wish you had examined it from the HR Management perspective.
If the newly joined employees proceed on leave without obtaining proper authorization, or if they do not even bother to inform the authorities concerned, then it demonstrates their casual attitude towards their job. During the recruitment process, did you ascertain whether they genuinely required employment? If they did, are they serious about their career? Are they sensitive toward their family responsibilities?
If an individual does not take his/her family seriously, then he/she will not take his/her job seriously. Therefore, the malaise lies in recruiting individuals who lack the ambition to grow.
While you may take disciplinary action against the delinquent employees, this is not a productive long-term solution. You may counsel them, and those who remain unresponsive may be terminated. When recruiting their replacements, please conduct tests to assess their career-consciousness.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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You have raised the issue of unplanned leave or unplanned leave without information from a legal point of view. However, I wish you had examined it from the HR Management perspective.
If the newly joined employees proceed on leave without obtaining proper authorization, or if they do not even bother to inform the authorities concerned, then it demonstrates their casual attitude towards their job. During the recruitment process, did you ascertain whether they genuinely required employment? If they did, are they serious about their career? Are they sensitive toward their family responsibilities?
If an individual does not take his/her family seriously, then he/she will not take his/her job seriously. Therefore, the malaise lies in recruiting individuals who lack the ambition to grow.
While you may take disciplinary action against the delinquent employees, this is not a productive long-term solution. You may counsel them, and those who remain unresponsive may be terminated. When recruiting their replacements, please conduct tests to assess their career-consciousness.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Difference? Yes, the whole world of difference between the two forms of absenteeism. Of course, both are 'Without pay,' but money is not the criterion. The culture, discipline, and attitude are what matter in between.
First, LOP = Leave Without Pay is an authorized leave when there are not enough days available to the credit of the employee's leave account, and the employee has to go on leave due to compelling circumstances like sickness, social reasons such as marriage, other functions, and sometimes even for completing the leftover degree course. This kind of LOP is rarely "applied & approved" as a special case.
Secondly, this LOP is availed with the consent of the management, hence no ambiguity on either side. Third, there is certainty that on the expiry of LOP, the employee concerned will rejoin duty. Fourth, in availing LOP, there is no threat of 'indiscipline.'
On the other hand, 'Absent' errs on all the above four counts and hence is not taken lightly and should not be encouraged at all. Moreover, fifth, in the case of LOP, there is a possibility that these leave days can be reckoned for determining 'continuity of service' without 'a break in service' (subject to the discretion of management) for all purposes, not only for the payment of gratuity but also for determining 'seniority,' grant of increment, etc.
Absenteeism, when it occasionally 'happens' in intrusive circumstances, may be exonerated with valid and acceptable reasons. But if it is repeated, it becomes 'habitual,' which leads to the initiation of disciplinary proceedings resulting in termination ultimately. It should not be encouraged at all. Therefore, suitable clauses are necessary in the 'terms & conditions' of appointment to safeguard the interest of the employer's commitment and to uphold 'work culture' in the organization.
Employment/workplaces are not bus stations or railway stations to walk-in or walk out at will. Where there is no work culture and discipline, that organization's work cannot be carried on.
And worse is 'if it happens' during probation. It's true an employee might require a couple of days of leave at any point in time, irrespective of whether during the probationary period or thereafter; unfortunately, leave is 'earned' after rendering one year of uninterrupted service. Maybe some organizations allow/grant a full or part quota of CL to address leave during the first year of entry into service. Probably even EL/PL proportionately for the months served if not the full year, subject to the leave policy permitting such a privilege. I have seen many organizations strictly don't allow leave during probation. Supposing for inevitable reasons leave has to be considered, then there is a possibility of granting a few days leave subject to the condition that the 'probation period' gets extended by those many days of leave applied/granted. This is the solution.
I strongly suggest you should have a strict leave policy to deal with 'habitual absenteeism,' not reporting to work without intimation. This calls for 'capital punishment' such as 'break in service,' deferment of increment, reversal of cadre, etc. in case repeated once. Thereafter, suspension, termination, etc., may follow. Such instances should not be let go without proper inquiry at the department level at least and should be 'rarest of rare.'
From India, Bangalore
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First, LOP = Leave Without Pay is an authorized leave when there are not enough days available to the credit of the employee's leave account, and the employee has to go on leave due to compelling circumstances like sickness, social reasons such as marriage, other functions, and sometimes even for completing the leftover degree course. This kind of LOP is rarely "applied & approved" as a special case.
Secondly, this LOP is availed with the consent of the management, hence no ambiguity on either side. Third, there is certainty that on the expiry of LOP, the employee concerned will rejoin duty. Fourth, in availing LOP, there is no threat of 'indiscipline.'
On the other hand, 'Absent' errs on all the above four counts and hence is not taken lightly and should not be encouraged at all. Moreover, fifth, in the case of LOP, there is a possibility that these leave days can be reckoned for determining 'continuity of service' without 'a break in service' (subject to the discretion of management) for all purposes, not only for the payment of gratuity but also for determining 'seniority,' grant of increment, etc.
Absenteeism, when it occasionally 'happens' in intrusive circumstances, may be exonerated with valid and acceptable reasons. But if it is repeated, it becomes 'habitual,' which leads to the initiation of disciplinary proceedings resulting in termination ultimately. It should not be encouraged at all. Therefore, suitable clauses are necessary in the 'terms & conditions' of appointment to safeguard the interest of the employer's commitment and to uphold 'work culture' in the organization.
Employment/workplaces are not bus stations or railway stations to walk-in or walk out at will. Where there is no work culture and discipline, that organization's work cannot be carried on.
And worse is 'if it happens' during probation. It's true an employee might require a couple of days of leave at any point in time, irrespective of whether during the probationary period or thereafter; unfortunately, leave is 'earned' after rendering one year of uninterrupted service. Maybe some organizations allow/grant a full or part quota of CL to address leave during the first year of entry into service. Probably even EL/PL proportionately for the months served if not the full year, subject to the leave policy permitting such a privilege. I have seen many organizations strictly don't allow leave during probation. Supposing for inevitable reasons leave has to be considered, then there is a possibility of granting a few days leave subject to the condition that the 'probation period' gets extended by those many days of leave applied/granted. This is the solution.
I strongly suggest you should have a strict leave policy to deal with 'habitual absenteeism,' not reporting to work without intimation. This calls for 'capital punishment' such as 'break in service,' deferment of increment, reversal of cadre, etc. in case repeated once. Thereafter, suspension, termination, etc., may follow. Such instances should not be let go without proper inquiry at the department level at least and should be 'rarest of rare.'
From India, Bangalore
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Dear,
You cannot simply wipe out the problems encountered in day-to-day business. The newcomers in your office do not have leave in their account, but their absence in lieu of leave can't be treated as unplanned leaves. Employees who remain absent without information are liable for action, as per the rules. Both categories of employees are liable for action if they remain absent from duty without information. We are not aware of the leave policies of your company and other policies or standing orders.
From India, Mumbai
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You cannot simply wipe out the problems encountered in day-to-day business. The newcomers in your office do not have leave in their account, but their absence in lieu of leave can't be treated as unplanned leaves. Employees who remain absent without information are liable for action, as per the rules. Both categories of employees are liable for action if they remain absent from duty without information. We are not aware of the leave policies of your company and other policies or standing orders.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Sir/Madam,
If an employee goes to his supervisor for sanctioning leave:
(1)(a) If he/she has no credit leave in his account:
(i) Sanctioned by the supervisor, it is Leave Without Pay.
(ii) If the employee does not come to the office without informing the supervisor, it is considered as an absence.
(2)(a) If he/she has credit leave in his account:
(i) Sanctioned by the supervisor, it is Leave Sanction.
(ii) If the employee does not come to the office without informing the supervisor, his/her leave may be sanctioned by the supervisor later. If sanctioned, it is considered as sanctioned leave; if not, it is marked as an absence but not Leave Without Pay.
An employee may choose his/her type of leave for sanction if he/she has fulfilled the conditions relating to that leave.
From India, Indore
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If an employee goes to his supervisor for sanctioning leave:
(1)(a) If he/she has no credit leave in his account:
(i) Sanctioned by the supervisor, it is Leave Without Pay.
(ii) If the employee does not come to the office without informing the supervisor, it is considered as an absence.
(2)(a) If he/she has credit leave in his account:
(i) Sanctioned by the supervisor, it is Leave Sanction.
(ii) If the employee does not come to the office without informing the supervisor, his/her leave may be sanctioned by the supervisor later. If sanctioned, it is considered as sanctioned leave; if not, it is marked as an absence but not Leave Without Pay.
An employee may choose his/her type of leave for sanction if he/she has fulfilled the conditions relating to that leave.
From India, Indore
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