Dear Seniors,
Please help me make the right decision. One of our senior employees, Mr. XXXX, left our organization without serving the notice period or obtaining a relieving order. Due to his strong references, he received an offer from his previous employer (where he worked before joining our organization), which does not require any background checks. Our Management is urging me to contact the Head of HR at his current company and inform them that Mr. XXXX has not been officially relieved. Is this the correct course of action?
Regards, Jayanthi
From India, Coimbatore
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1Please help me make the right decision. One of our senior employees, Mr. XXXX, left our organization without serving the notice period or obtaining a relieving order. Due to his strong references, he received an offer from his previous employer (where he worked before joining our organization), which does not require any background checks. Our Management is urging me to contact the Head of HR at his current company and inform them that Mr. XXXX has not been officially relieved. Is this the correct course of action?
Regards, Jayanthi
From India, Coimbatore
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Dear Jayanthi,
Your senior did absolutely wrong by not serving or informing, which is unacceptable. Let's make it clear in this forum - let's, for a moment, assume we are the employers. Would we accept this?
It's your duty to call them as you have been instructed. If the reference is still strong, your ex-boss would not lose; else, he may have to face the ramifications.
The strange thing coming up in this forum is both senior personnel and juniors quitting or wanting to quit without notice. Partly the managements are also responsible. But as an employer, would you tolerate this behavior?
If you still feel loyal to your ex-boss, inform him as a matter of courtesy that your company will be talking to his employers about his not serving the notice period or relieving period. What about his/her Full and Final settlement and our benefits?
There's nothing negative about your company's thought - they have a right as he is still on the payrolls and not officially relieved.
From India, Madras
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Your senior did absolutely wrong by not serving or informing, which is unacceptable. Let's make it clear in this forum - let's, for a moment, assume we are the employers. Would we accept this?
It's your duty to call them as you have been instructed. If the reference is still strong, your ex-boss would not lose; else, he may have to face the ramifications.
The strange thing coming up in this forum is both senior personnel and juniors quitting or wanting to quit without notice. Partly the managements are also responsible. But as an employer, would you tolerate this behavior?
If you still feel loyal to your ex-boss, inform him as a matter of courtesy that your company will be talking to his employers about his not serving the notice period or relieving period. What about his/her Full and Final settlement and our benefits?
There's nothing negative about your company's thought - they have a right as he is still on the payrolls and not officially relieved.
From India, Madras
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Dear Mr. Ramesh,
Thanks for your quick response and support. I hope you misunderstood my question.
I want to know whether we can call the new company in which our employee recently joined and inform them about the unofficial relieving or not? Since the new employer of him has not called me for a reference, I am voluntarily calling to provide the information.
Apart from this, I do not have anything personal to offer that employee.
Regards,
Jayanthi :)
Dear Jayanthi,
Your senior did absolutely wrong; not serving or informing is unacceptable. Let's make it clear in this forum - let's, for a moment, assume we are the employers. Will we accept this? It's your duty to call them as you have been instructed. If the reference is still strong, your ex-boss would not lose; otherwise, he may have to face the ramifications.
The strange thing coming up in this forum is both senior personnel and juniors quitting or wanting to quit without notice. Partly the managements are also responsible. But as an employer, would you tolerate this behavior?
If you still feel loyal to your ex-boss, inform him as a matter of courtesy that your company will be talking to his employers about his not serving the notice period or relieving period. What about his/her Full and Final settlement and our benefits? There's nothing negative about your company's thought - they have a right as he is still in the payrolls and not officially relieved.
From India, Coimbatore
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Thanks for your quick response and support. I hope you misunderstood my question.
I want to know whether we can call the new company in which our employee recently joined and inform them about the unofficial relieving or not? Since the new employer of him has not called me for a reference, I am voluntarily calling to provide the information.
Apart from this, I do not have anything personal to offer that employee.
Regards,
Jayanthi :)
Dear Jayanthi,
Your senior did absolutely wrong; not serving or informing is unacceptable. Let's make it clear in this forum - let's, for a moment, assume we are the employers. Will we accept this? It's your duty to call them as you have been instructed. If the reference is still strong, your ex-boss would not lose; otherwise, he may have to face the ramifications.
The strange thing coming up in this forum is both senior personnel and juniors quitting or wanting to quit without notice. Partly the managements are also responsible. But as an employer, would you tolerate this behavior?
If you still feel loyal to your ex-boss, inform him as a matter of courtesy that your company will be talking to his employers about his not serving the notice period or relieving period. What about his/her Full and Final settlement and our benefits? There's nothing negative about your company's thought - they have a right as he is still in the payrolls and not officially relieved.
From India, Coimbatore
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Dear Jayanthi,
I understood your initial post. Your ex-colleague would have gotten the job based on the reference or rapport with his previous employer. Since he was happy with him, he might have taken him. In that case, he may also be aware of this guy's joining without getting a relieving order or serving notice. This person is still on the rolls of your company, and legal action can be taken against him.
You are taking instructions from the bosses and just following them. If the new company retains the guy, there might be legal implications for them, or if they terminate his employment, that's another matter. The management has a right to be angry and upset as he has failed to meet the basic requirements of notice and getting relieved from service before joining another job.
From India, Madras
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I understood your initial post. Your ex-colleague would have gotten the job based on the reference or rapport with his previous employer. Since he was happy with him, he might have taken him. In that case, he may also be aware of this guy's joining without getting a relieving order or serving notice. This person is still on the rolls of your company, and legal action can be taken against him.
You are taking instructions from the bosses and just following them. If the new company retains the guy, there might be legal implications for them, or if they terminate his employment, that's another matter. The management has a right to be angry and upset as he has failed to meet the basic requirements of notice and getting relieved from service before joining another job.
From India, Madras
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Hi Jayanthi,
Don't tell anything about him to his present employer because as an HR professional, it is unethical. However, if someone conducts a reference check from his current company, you can certainly mention that he did not receive a proper relieving process and left without serving the notice period. I believe this is the appropriate approach.
Another point to consider is that when someone leaves without giving proper notice, it may indicate issues with poor management and a lack of employee relationships. Your company seems to fall into this category. In an organization with good management, everyone should be relieved properly. Unfortunately, it appears that the HR department has also made the same mistake.
This is solely my personal opinion.
From India
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Don't tell anything about him to his present employer because as an HR professional, it is unethical. However, if someone conducts a reference check from his current company, you can certainly mention that he did not receive a proper relieving process and left without serving the notice period. I believe this is the appropriate approach.
Another point to consider is that when someone leaves without giving proper notice, it may indicate issues with poor management and a lack of employee relationships. Your company seems to fall into this category. In an organization with good management, everyone should be relieved properly. Unfortunately, it appears that the HR department has also made the same mistake.
This is solely my personal opinion.
From India
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Hi Jayanthi,
What your management has requested you to do is absolutely right. Irrespective of his previous employer relationship, he is still supposed to serve the notice period or do what is necessary (as per your appointment letter details).
Consider him like any other employee who has left your organization without any information.
I assume that the new company he has joined, the HR there would ignore. However, talk to them, send an email, and ask them to respond to it. I don't think you will be spoiling someone's career here. What about the vice-versa? The company having to suffer with recruitments and additional training for the next few months for a new hire?
Balaji: It may be too early to assume that the company policy is bad, and so someone quits the place without informing. I don't disagree with that either. But let's not generalize. Maybe he could not put up with a new culture, or the previous company could really make him come back because of the "relationship" they have.
This happened in one of our hires, where he hired a person (a very nice, honest individual). A few weeks after joining our company, his previous employer's MD, MD's wife, and children together went to this person's house - sat for 4 hours, convinced the candidate's wife and parents, and begged through to come back. I did not initially believe that story, and spoke to the MD himself directly and asked if there was any truth in this... the MD "apologized" to me and told me that he cannot afford to lose his best employee and said he will refer other people through his friends... but not this person.
I understood the candidate's dilemma at that point. He felt bad that he could not continue with us, and he felt bad that his MD went to his house directly and asked him not to move.
Very senior role... Factory Manager!
So you see - can't blame that the company is bad... situations may arise that people will just have no choice. Well, we did not ask him to serve notice as it was just 2 weeks since he joined us. Till today, he is in touch with me for referring candidates for a few positions.
And this is for Taz.India.
I think you are planning to look out for an HR job... for that you need to at least "act" like an HR if you really can't be one! :-)
From India, Madras
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What your management has requested you to do is absolutely right. Irrespective of his previous employer relationship, he is still supposed to serve the notice period or do what is necessary (as per your appointment letter details).
Consider him like any other employee who has left your organization without any information.
I assume that the new company he has joined, the HR there would ignore. However, talk to them, send an email, and ask them to respond to it. I don't think you will be spoiling someone's career here. What about the vice-versa? The company having to suffer with recruitments and additional training for the next few months for a new hire?
Balaji: It may be too early to assume that the company policy is bad, and so someone quits the place without informing. I don't disagree with that either. But let's not generalize. Maybe he could not put up with a new culture, or the previous company could really make him come back because of the "relationship" they have.
This happened in one of our hires, where he hired a person (a very nice, honest individual). A few weeks after joining our company, his previous employer's MD, MD's wife, and children together went to this person's house - sat for 4 hours, convinced the candidate's wife and parents, and begged through to come back. I did not initially believe that story, and spoke to the MD himself directly and asked if there was any truth in this... the MD "apologized" to me and told me that he cannot afford to lose his best employee and said he will refer other people through his friends... but not this person.
I understood the candidate's dilemma at that point. He felt bad that he could not continue with us, and he felt bad that his MD went to his house directly and asked him not to move.
Very senior role... Factory Manager!
So you see - can't blame that the company is bad... situations may arise that people will just have no choice. Well, we did not ask him to serve notice as it was just 2 weeks since he joined us. Till today, he is in touch with me for referring candidates for a few positions.
And this is for Taz.India.
I think you are planning to look out for an HR job... for that you need to at least "act" like an HR if you really can't be one! :-)
From India, Madras
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Dear Jayanthi,
I think that if your boss pressurizes you, then only you should call his current company and narrate the whole incident. But firstly, try to convince your boss to talk to him directly rather than calling his company's HR for the same.
Though it is unacceptable to leave a company without notifying and properly handing over your equipment and accounts, if your management asks you to do this, then go ahead. This won't make a difference to you as you are just an executive. If his current company's HR contacts your company in return, he will surely speak to your boss rather than you. So, chill out and try calling him to sort the matter out.
Regards,
Sumiksha Koul
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I think that if your boss pressurizes you, then only you should call his current company and narrate the whole incident. But firstly, try to convince your boss to talk to him directly rather than calling his company's HR for the same.
Though it is unacceptable to leave a company without notifying and properly handing over your equipment and accounts, if your management asks you to do this, then go ahead. This won't make a difference to you as you are just an executive. If his current company's HR contacts your company in return, he will surely speak to your boss rather than you. So, chill out and try calling him to sort the matter out.
Regards,
Sumiksha Koul
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Agree with Ash.
We need to put ourselves in the roles of the employer. Like they say about a lawyer, you have to look at the case from the viewpoint of the accused and the accuser before you draw conclusions and argue.
I quit my first job because of the bad management (the entire team was bad, still is, and my ex-friends are complaining to me about issues; I can't do much though). Not going through the normal process (but informed my immediate boss though and got his best wishes). On hindsight, I felt it was not nice and still regret that decision.
There are certain ethics involved which we need to follow. Since that first job (mid-1990s), I resolved, and can confidently say, I have taken the normal process of quitting by giving notice or paying in lieu of notice period and getting a formal relieving order, which has facilitated smooth job changes.
We, as experienced professionals, should take the right decision irrespective of good or bad management. Mark a copy of your resignation to your personal IDs, save it so that if it's delayed or the company deliberately avoids giving you the relieving order, you can show it to your new employers and seek time from them, assuring them that you will give it to them as and when you receive it. This will save you from unnecessary mental tension.
If your former company delays it inordinately, it will be obvious to your employers (assuming that they are fair) that the previous company may be poorly managed and you did the right thing in moving on.
As far as taking orders, in the defense, the juniors take orders from the seniors without asking questions (even though they may know the decision was wrong). That's discipline.
This forum and site should be brought to the notice of managements so that they can change for the better. Bad management is also at fault for employees adopting fraudulent or unacceptable behavior, which can be reduced. Everyone has a right to a better future. The companies go in for smarter candidates, and the employees are entitled to better jobs.
From India, Madras
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We need to put ourselves in the roles of the employer. Like they say about a lawyer, you have to look at the case from the viewpoint of the accused and the accuser before you draw conclusions and argue.
I quit my first job because of the bad management (the entire team was bad, still is, and my ex-friends are complaining to me about issues; I can't do much though). Not going through the normal process (but informed my immediate boss though and got his best wishes). On hindsight, I felt it was not nice and still regret that decision.
There are certain ethics involved which we need to follow. Since that first job (mid-1990s), I resolved, and can confidently say, I have taken the normal process of quitting by giving notice or paying in lieu of notice period and getting a formal relieving order, which has facilitated smooth job changes.
We, as experienced professionals, should take the right decision irrespective of good or bad management. Mark a copy of your resignation to your personal IDs, save it so that if it's delayed or the company deliberately avoids giving you the relieving order, you can show it to your new employers and seek time from them, assuring them that you will give it to them as and when you receive it. This will save you from unnecessary mental tension.
If your former company delays it inordinately, it will be obvious to your employers (assuming that they are fair) that the previous company may be poorly managed and you did the right thing in moving on.
As far as taking orders, in the defense, the juniors take orders from the seniors without asking questions (even though they may know the decision was wrong). That's discipline.
This forum and site should be brought to the notice of managements so that they can change for the better. Bad management is also at fault for employees adopting fraudulent or unacceptable behavior, which can be reduced. Everyone has a right to a better future. The companies go in for smarter candidates, and the employees are entitled to better jobs.
From India, Madras
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Dear Jayanthi,
Forget about the person's job who has joined another company! Do your job since you are still on your management payroll. Misleading or hiding any facts will put your job at risk. If the person has quit without any information purposely, then your company has all the right to take legal action. Let the other company make a decision. I am sure that this candidate is not more important than the company's reputation.
Send a notice stating that the person has not resigned; hence, still on your payroll. Ask him to resign officially, hand over, and pay/serve the notice.
From India, Mumbai
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Forget about the person's job who has joined another company! Do your job since you are still on your management payroll. Misleading or hiding any facts will put your job at risk. If the person has quit without any information purposely, then your company has all the right to take legal action. Let the other company make a decision. I am sure that this candidate is not more important than the company's reputation.
Send a notice stating that the person has not resigned; hence, still on your payroll. Ask him to resign officially, hand over, and pay/serve the notice.
From India, Mumbai
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Hi Jayanthi,
Since your management is asking you to call the Head of HR, proceed accordingly. Do not provide any false statements. Speak with the person and inform your management of the actual situation. To be on the safer side, document everything by sending an email to the same person.
It is important to follow the directions given by your management.
I agree with Asha. We should not judge the behavior of the management based on the inappropriate actions of a few employees.
Jeeva
From India, Bangalore
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Since your management is asking you to call the Head of HR, proceed accordingly. Do not provide any false statements. Speak with the person and inform your management of the actual situation. To be on the safer side, document everything by sending an email to the same person.
It is important to follow the directions given by your management.
I agree with Asha. We should not judge the behavior of the management based on the inappropriate actions of a few employees.
Jeeva
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Jayanthi,
Whether you are facing a dilemma on accounts of Ethics or Technicalities, it's not clear. But irrespective of the nature, if you are unsure of the proper line of action; then it's a good sign that your thinking is not corrupted as yet.
If a person has left you without notice, he has committed a breach of confidence. If your company/management wants to pay him back in the same coin, then it's fine. Go ahead.
But, I would like to know, by adopting what means - fair or foul; you came to know about his whereabouts? Had you not known this, what would you have done?
If you wish to play a fair game, while adopting the stance that he is still your employee (since he has not tendered resignation nor relieved), then take action as you would do with people who have not been attending duty (absent) without prior leave or information. Then follow-up accordingly, including subsequent termination of service, etc.
But if you wish to seek vendetta, make it a prestige issue, set a horrifying example for others by teaching him a lesson; then of course, there is no stopping you or your company. Go ahead, "Make Your Day" !!!
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Whether you are facing a dilemma on accounts of Ethics or Technicalities, it's not clear. But irrespective of the nature, if you are unsure of the proper line of action; then it's a good sign that your thinking is not corrupted as yet.
If a person has left you without notice, he has committed a breach of confidence. If your company/management wants to pay him back in the same coin, then it's fine. Go ahead.
But, I would like to know, by adopting what means - fair or foul; you came to know about his whereabouts? Had you not known this, what would you have done?
If you wish to play a fair game, while adopting the stance that he is still your employee (since he has not tendered resignation nor relieved), then take action as you would do with people who have not been attending duty (absent) without prior leave or information. Then follow-up accordingly, including subsequent termination of service, etc.
But if you wish to seek vendetta, make it a prestige issue, set a horrifying example for others by teaching him a lesson; then of course, there is no stopping you or your company. Go ahead, "Make Your Day" !!!
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Hi Jayanthi,
You have done your part and followed the instructions from your management. Now, the ball is in the other companies' court - how they proceed is their responsibility. They can choose to retain him or release him. Hold back his payments until you receive a satisfactory response. If he submits his resignation now, accept it and deduct the notice period payment for the notice not served.
Additionally, send a letter stating that his services are terminated (not relieved). There is a distinct difference.
Thank you.
From India, Madras
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You have done your part and followed the instructions from your management. Now, the ball is in the other companies' court - how they proceed is their responsibility. They can choose to retain him or release him. Hold back his payments until you receive a satisfactory response. If he submits his resignation now, accept it and deduct the notice period payment for the notice not served.
Additionally, send a letter stating that his services are terminated (not relieved). There is a distinct difference.
Thank you.
From India, Madras
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