Dear all, i just want to know that what should be the maximum punishment shold be give to a worker on account of absenteeism? dismmisal or discharge??? reply urgent. regards gaurav
From India, Pune
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1From India, Pune
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dear your question is not clear.punishment should be proportionate with misconduct. how many days absent.you can not dismiss some for one day absence. tks j s malik
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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For habitual absenteeism, discharge shall be the maximum punishment. Dismissal shall be given only in rare occasions where gross misconduct, like immoral acts or gross negligence resulting in heavy loss of property and human lives, is proved.
Regards,
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
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Regards,
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
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Request some more info on the difference between Discharge and dismissal… Legal / procedural / financial implication wise
From India
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From India
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Dear Gaurav,
Actually, you have not presented the situation properly. But from what I can gather through your statement, you questioned that candidate for his absence, and he argued against you. Am I right?
Firstly, as HR professionals, we should avoid these types of incidents. If he/she is absent or has violated the attendance policy, then take action according to your policy. However, sometimes our policy itself can be a hindrance.
You cannot dismiss anybody solely for absence. But if the action is mentioned in the appointment letter or policy, such as 7 days of uninformed leave being considered as a lack of interest in working with the company, then such points can support taking action. My suggestion is to try to understand the reason he is taking leave before taking any action.
I would like to seek suggestions on whether my statement sounds wrong.
Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
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Actually, you have not presented the situation properly. But from what I can gather through your statement, you questioned that candidate for his absence, and he argued against you. Am I right?
Firstly, as HR professionals, we should avoid these types of incidents. If he/she is absent or has violated the attendance policy, then take action according to your policy. However, sometimes our policy itself can be a hindrance.
You cannot dismiss anybody solely for absence. But if the action is mentioned in the appointment letter or policy, such as 7 days of uninformed leave being considered as a lack of interest in working with the company, then such points can support taking action. My suggestion is to try to understand the reason he is taking leave before taking any action.
I would like to seek suggestions on whether my statement sounds wrong.
Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
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The basic difference between "Discharge" and "Dismissal" is that the former allows a kind of sympathy, whereas the latter gives no leniency. In the case of discharge, full and final settlement will be made, and gratuity, if eligible for, will also be given. Similarly, the person discharged from service will get EPF accumulations also. The term discharge is simultaneously used for termination of employment due to reasons other than misconduct.
Dismissal, on the other hand, is made when no kindness is required to be shown. A dismissed employee will not get unpaid salary, gratuity, PF, etc., and there is ultimately no final settlement. Therefore, dismissal is granted only when the misconduct is that severe, as mentioned in my earlier posting.
Normally, the gravity of loss to the company will be less for misconduct of absenteeism, but if any employee manhandles others and causes financial loss to the company, or if an employee is proved to have behaved immorally, the matter will lead to dismissal.
Sometimes, an order of dismissal may be converted into an order of discharge also with the intervention of Trade Unions or after accepting an apology from the concerned employee. That is a practical way of revising an order.
Regards,
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
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Dismissal, on the other hand, is made when no kindness is required to be shown. A dismissed employee will not get unpaid salary, gratuity, PF, etc., and there is ultimately no final settlement. Therefore, dismissal is granted only when the misconduct is that severe, as mentioned in my earlier posting.
Normally, the gravity of loss to the company will be less for misconduct of absenteeism, but if any employee manhandles others and causes financial loss to the company, or if an employee is proved to have behaved immorally, the matter will lead to dismissal.
Sometimes, an order of dismissal may be converted into an order of discharge also with the intervention of Trade Unions or after accepting an apology from the concerned employee. That is a practical way of revising an order.
Regards,
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
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Hi Madhu,
Very informative discussion; however, I seek clarification on your quote above. Is it possible to withhold PF of an employee who is being "dismissed"? I thought PF was untouchable regardless of the case.
Please let me know if you have any further questions or need additional information.
Thank you.
From India
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Very informative discussion; however, I seek clarification on your quote above. Is it possible to withhold PF of an employee who is being "dismissed"? I thought PF was untouchable regardless of the case.
Please let me know if you have any further questions or need additional information.
Thank you.
From India
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Dear,
We must understand the word 'Habitual'. If a person is habitual in abstaining from duty, you can punish the person according to the Model Standing orders / Certified Standing order (in the case of workman). For those who do not come under the purview of the Industrial Disputes Act, 1947, you should only mention that as per the terms of the letter of appointment, your services stand terminated (if notice is there, give the notice period before terminating or salary in lieu thereof). This will avoid legal complications. There is no rule that if a person is a habitual absentee, he can't be dismissed. But one thing to keep in mind for workman, you have to issue a charge sheet/hold an enquiry and after getting the finding reports, you can dismiss/discharge the person as per the provisions of the certified standing orders of the company or model standing orders of the state, whichever is applicable.
Ak Malhotra
From India, Guwahati
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We must understand the word 'Habitual'. If a person is habitual in abstaining from duty, you can punish the person according to the Model Standing orders / Certified Standing order (in the case of workman). For those who do not come under the purview of the Industrial Disputes Act, 1947, you should only mention that as per the terms of the letter of appointment, your services stand terminated (if notice is there, give the notice period before terminating or salary in lieu thereof). This will avoid legal complications. There is no rule that if a person is a habitual absentee, he can't be dismissed. But one thing to keep in mind for workman, you have to issue a charge sheet/hold an enquiry and after getting the finding reports, you can dismiss/discharge the person as per the provisions of the certified standing orders of the company or model standing orders of the state, whichever is applicable.
Ak Malhotra
From India, Guwahati
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Hi,
Thank you for your suggestions on dismissal and discharge. I have a doubt regarding the termination of an employee from their job or service. Will the employee receive salary benefits (including all allowances and deductions that are typically withheld from their salary) upon termination? Please confirm this at your earliest convenience.
Lingaraju
From India, New Delhi
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Thank you for your suggestions on dismissal and discharge. I have a doubt regarding the termination of an employee from their job or service. Will the employee receive salary benefits (including all allowances and deductions that are typically withheld from their salary) upon termination? Please confirm this at your earliest convenience.
Lingaraju
From India, New Delhi
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Please, I need help. My job was terminated due to unauthorized absence after 10+ years of continuous service without any remark. Will any company consider my candidature when I attend an HR interview, and what will be the success ratio? If anyone knows any precedence where a terminated person got new employment, please share the same with me so that my morale and self-confidence will increase.
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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Dear all,
I have gone through the discussion on habitual absenteeism. It was a very good discussion, but the main question remained unanswered, i.e., What do you think is the meaning of Habitual Absenteeism? The term habitual means exceeding three times in a year. Again, what will be the criteria? I believe if an employee is absent without any prior information or approved leave for more than four days in a month, and if these conditions occur more than three times, then we can classify it as habitual absenteeism.
Looking forward to your inputs.
Regards,
Avinash K.
From India, Mumbai
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I have gone through the discussion on habitual absenteeism. It was a very good discussion, but the main question remained unanswered, i.e., What do you think is the meaning of Habitual Absenteeism? The term habitual means exceeding three times in a year. Again, what will be the criteria? I believe if an employee is absent without any prior information or approved leave for more than four days in a month, and if these conditions occur more than three times, then we can classify it as habitual absenteeism.
Looking forward to your inputs.
Regards,
Avinash K.
From India, Mumbai
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I agree with Madhu, sir, to use the word "terminate" rather than "dismiss."
You cannot terminate anybody without providing a chargesheet, giving them an opportunity to defend themselves, examining witnesses, and proving the charges levied against them in a domestic enquiry; otherwise, they will contest in the labour court.
Regards,
Sacheein
From India, Mumbai
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You cannot terminate anybody without providing a chargesheet, giving them an opportunity to defend themselves, examining witnesses, and proving the charges levied against them in a domestic enquiry; otherwise, they will contest in the labour court.
Regards,
Sacheein
From India, Mumbai
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