Dear Friends,
I am citing an example. Please comment.
A person whose gross salary is Rs. 7500/- per month was working in a Pvt Company in Bangalore. He was working on a project business of the company. This company is covered under the ESI Act, and this employee was receiving benefits under the ESI Act. Now, the company deputed this employee to Hubli for project work where there was no ESI applicability. He was working there. During his working period, he met with an accident and was declared dead in the hospital.
Now the question is,
1) During the deputation period, will the employee's ESI contribution be deducted from his salary or not?
2) Will the dependents of the deceased benefit under the ESI Act or the Workmen's Compensation Act?
Please provide your expertise.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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32I am citing an example. Please comment.
A person whose gross salary is Rs. 7500/- per month was working in a Pvt Company in Bangalore. He was working on a project business of the company. This company is covered under the ESI Act, and this employee was receiving benefits under the ESI Act. Now, the company deputed this employee to Hubli for project work where there was no ESI applicability. He was working there. During his working period, he met with an accident and was declared dead in the hospital.
Now the question is,
1) During the deputation period, will the employee's ESI contribution be deducted from his salary or not?
2) Will the dependents of the deceased benefit under the ESI Act or the Workmen's Compensation Act?
Please provide your expertise.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Friend,
I think you have not understood the difference between WC and ESI Act. First, the answer to your queries, assuming the amount you mentioned is his gross salary. The issue of states comes into play for availing medical benefits, not for other benefits. Therefore, the deceased employee's kin are eligible for death benefits, which include pension and funeral expenses reimbursements.
The WC Act is applicable separately. However, while awarding the benefits under the WC Act by the WC Commissioner, he shall consider ESI applicability and award accordingly. The only grey area under the WC Act is the filing process, which is slightly tedious.
Please feel free to ask any other queries you may have.
Cheers,
Dhole
From India, Delhi
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I think you have not understood the difference between WC and ESI Act. First, the answer to your queries, assuming the amount you mentioned is his gross salary. The issue of states comes into play for availing medical benefits, not for other benefits. Therefore, the deceased employee's kin are eligible for death benefits, which include pension and funeral expenses reimbursements.
The WC Act is applicable separately. However, while awarding the benefits under the WC Act by the WC Commissioner, he shall consider ESI applicability and award accordingly. The only grey area under the WC Act is the filing process, which is slightly tedious.
Please feel free to ask any other queries you may have.
Cheers,
Dhole
From India, Delhi
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Dear Sideshwar,
I have read your query. If the place of deputation is not covered by ESIC, then he will not be compensated by ESIC. You will need to organize his payment through the Workmen's Compensation Act, either by compensation insurance if taken or the Company will have to make payment as per the act.
Thanks & Regards,
Amal Shere
From India, Mumbai
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I have read your query. If the place of deputation is not covered by ESIC, then he will not be compensated by ESIC. You will need to organize his payment through the Workmen's Compensation Act, either by compensation insurance if taken or the Company will have to make payment as per the act.
Thanks & Regards,
Amal Shere
From India, Mumbai
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Hi Dhole, Once again u go through mail querry and come back to me with ur reply. U read ESI and WC pls........ Thxs sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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But madam, U see if employee is deputed for 01 day where ESI is not applicable and death case takes place, how his dependant will be benefitted????? Come with comments pls..... thxs sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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Hello! As I see it, much depends on the nature of deputation. From your second mail, I get the impression that the accident took place on the day of deputation. Basically, the ESI Act applies where it is a covered area under the Act. If a person moves from a covered area to a non-covered area lock, stock, and barrel, then there will be no ESI liability. However, if he is on a scheduled employment under the WC Act, then the employer has to pay compensation. But if he is on a short-duration assignment whereby he continues to be on the rolls of the covered unit and draws his salary there, then the ESI liability cannot be avoided. However, if he comes under the beneficiary period while on deputation outside the covered area, he is entitled to the benefit.
Hope my analysis is of help.
Regards,
KK Nair
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Hope my analysis is of help.
Regards,
KK Nair
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Dear Sid,
You have touched on a very good area. Let me try to clarify it for you.
The first question of deducting Salary:
Well, the applicability of ESI Act is to an organization and not an individual. That is, an organization must first fall under ESI coverage, and then all employees who are earning up to the stipulated limit will have to be covered under ESI. It does not matter whether the person goes to an ESI covered area or not. His benefits and contribution will remain the same. So, if the person was at a site and was under a different establishment payroll, then the question of coverage will arise.
For example, if a Company has HQ at Mumbai, and its factory is located at a place which is not covered by the ESI Act, then all employees under the roll of the Factory will not be covered under ESI, but the employees under the Corporate Roll will be covered, no matter where they work. This is applicable vice-versa. So, the place of work does not matter but the establishment to which he/she is attached is important.
One more thing I would like to add is that the validity of membership of ESI continues for a period of 9 months after the last paid contribution, so the employee is a valid member up to that time.
As for benefits, all valid members are entitled to full benefits. The only problem is the ESI Registered Doctor must be contacted after death.
Regarding WC and ESI, I personally would advise that a minimum coverage of WC insurance should be taken in general. ESI coverage usually takes time (sometimes we may delay the submission of Declaration Form due to work pressure or some companies allow a certain number of forms to collect before submitting to reduce work pressure). Just for our safety.
Revert back for further queries.
Kind Regards,
SC
From India, Thane
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You have touched on a very good area. Let me try to clarify it for you.
The first question of deducting Salary:
Well, the applicability of ESI Act is to an organization and not an individual. That is, an organization must first fall under ESI coverage, and then all employees who are earning up to the stipulated limit will have to be covered under ESI. It does not matter whether the person goes to an ESI covered area or not. His benefits and contribution will remain the same. So, if the person was at a site and was under a different establishment payroll, then the question of coverage will arise.
For example, if a Company has HQ at Mumbai, and its factory is located at a place which is not covered by the ESI Act, then all employees under the roll of the Factory will not be covered under ESI, but the employees under the Corporate Roll will be covered, no matter where they work. This is applicable vice-versa. So, the place of work does not matter but the establishment to which he/she is attached is important.
One more thing I would like to add is that the validity of membership of ESI continues for a period of 9 months after the last paid contribution, so the employee is a valid member up to that time.
As for benefits, all valid members are entitled to full benefits. The only problem is the ESI Registered Doctor must be contacted after death.
Regarding WC and ESI, I personally would advise that a minimum coverage of WC insurance should be taken in general. ESI coverage usually takes time (sometimes we may delay the submission of Declaration Form due to work pressure or some companies allow a certain number of forms to collect before submitting to reduce work pressure). Just for our safety.
Revert back for further queries.
Kind Regards,
SC
From India, Thane
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Hi SC,
Now the question is, if a corporate person has completed 9 periods and is deputed where ESI is not applicable, what will happen if he is involved in an accident?
After completing the 9-month ESI period, he was deputed to a location where there is no ESI coverage and continued his duties for an additional 2 months. The corporate HR department was deducting ESI contributions and depositing employer contributions as well. In the event of an accident now, will he be entitled to benefits under ESI or workers' compensation? It is important to note that the company has a group insurance policy that covers this area.
Please reply with your views.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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Now the question is, if a corporate person has completed 9 periods and is deputed where ESI is not applicable, what will happen if he is involved in an accident?
After completing the 9-month ESI period, he was deputed to a location where there is no ESI coverage and continued his duties for an additional 2 months. The corporate HR department was deducting ESI contributions and depositing employer contributions as well. In the event of an accident now, will he be entitled to benefits under ESI or workers' compensation? It is important to note that the company has a group insurance policy that covers this area.
Please reply with your views.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Sid,
The period of 9 months starts from the period when the employee's name last appeared in Return of Contribution (Form 37) before the payment of contributions stopped. For example, if an employee leaves on 1st August 2004, his name will appear on Form 37 submitted on 30th September 2004, so his validity of membership will remain up to 30th June 2005.
The above is applicable ONLY WHEN YOU HAVE STOPPED DEPOSITING CONTRIBUTIONS WITH ESI. If your Corporate HR had deposited his contributions with ESIC, then you can claim benefits from ESI.
Regards,
SC
From India, Thane
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The period of 9 months starts from the period when the employee's name last appeared in Return of Contribution (Form 37) before the payment of contributions stopped. For example, if an employee leaves on 1st August 2004, his name will appear on Form 37 submitted on 30th September 2004, so his validity of membership will remain up to 30th June 2005.
The above is applicable ONLY WHEN YOU HAVE STOPPED DEPOSITING CONTRIBUTIONS WITH ESI. If your Corporate HR had deposited his contributions with ESIC, then you can claim benefits from ESI.
Regards,
SC
From India, Thane
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R u sure? Accident place has no role in compensation under ESI????// Pls come with answer. Regards Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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Dear Sid,
As far as I know, the ESI is applicable to an establishment falling within its jurisdiction and not the location of work. So, in this case, the employee is entitled to ESI benefits. Kindly see Form 105 and check if that is applicable.
Regards,
SC
From India, Thane
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As far as I know, the ESI is applicable to an establishment falling within its jurisdiction and not the location of work. So, in this case, the employee is entitled to ESI benefits. Kindly see Form 105 and check if that is applicable.
Regards,
SC
From India, Thane
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Hi Siddesh Regarding your query first i want to know at the time of the accident the company was deducting Esi from deceased and how long he was working in Hubli. Regards, Shanmugam
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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Hi dear,
Could you please check my previous statement?
His contribution was being paid, and he was fulfilling all the criteria to receive benefits. My question is, at the time of the accident, he was on duty but not under ESI coverage. That's all. I need a reply, please.
Regards,
Sidhu
From India, Bangalore
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Could you please check my previous statement?
His contribution was being paid, and he was fulfilling all the criteria to receive benefits. My question is, at the time of the accident, he was on duty but not under ESI coverage. That's all. I need a reply, please.
Regards,
Sidhu
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Sidhu,
It is clear that when he is on duty at the time of the accident, whether he is covered under the ESI Act or not, his dependants can claim benefits under the WCA. Anyway, under ESI, the dependants claim only funeral benefits, that is it.
M. Shanmugam
From India, Bangalore
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It is clear that when he is on duty at the time of the accident, whether he is covered under the ESI Act or not, his dependants can claim benefits under the WCA. Anyway, under ESI, the dependants claim only funeral benefits, that is it.
M. Shanmugam
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Sid,
If you are paying contributions, the employee is covered. ESI coverage, I repeat, is applicable to an establishment and not the place of work. The employee is entitled to death as well as funeral benefits under ESI. Please try to understand that the area of coverage is applicable to the establishment that has employed a person and not, I repeat, not to the area where you are putting him to work.
Last but not least, the only issue is that to receive treatment, the person must usually visit a place in the state where he is registered. This is not applicable for benefits.
Regards,
SC
From India, Thane
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If you are paying contributions, the employee is covered. ESI coverage, I repeat, is applicable to an establishment and not the place of work. The employee is entitled to death as well as funeral benefits under ESI. Please try to understand that the area of coverage is applicable to the establishment that has employed a person and not, I repeat, not to the area where you are putting him to work.
Last but not least, the only issue is that to receive treatment, the person must usually visit a place in the state where he is registered. This is not applicable for benefits.
Regards,
SC
From India, Thane
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Dear friends,
I have gone through the mail conversation on the topic. If a person is covered under the ESI Act and is sent by his employer to any place for work and meets with an accident, his dependants will receive all benefits accruing under the ESI Act. The acid test for receiving benefits is whether the injury took place arising out of and in the course of employment. In this case, the answer is affirmative. It makes no difference if the person was deployed at a place where ESI was not applicable. In this case, the person will not receive benefits under the W.C. Act because there is a bar in the ESI Act. I hope your query is clear. Feel free to ask any other questions.
Regards,
Anil Kaushik
Chief Editor, Business Manager
09829133699
From India, Delhi
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I have gone through the mail conversation on the topic. If a person is covered under the ESI Act and is sent by his employer to any place for work and meets with an accident, his dependants will receive all benefits accruing under the ESI Act. The acid test for receiving benefits is whether the injury took place arising out of and in the course of employment. In this case, the answer is affirmative. It makes no difference if the person was deployed at a place where ESI was not applicable. In this case, the person will not receive benefits under the W.C. Act because there is a bar in the ESI Act. I hope your query is clear. Feel free to ask any other questions.
Regards,
Anil Kaushik
Chief Editor, Business Manager
09829133699
From India, Delhi
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Dear sidh, Sec. 61 of ESI Act puts abar on getting benefits from other enactments while covered under ESI Act. regds anil kaushik
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Dear Anil, I m not asking this. I m asking that place of accident has role in ESI or not? If no, pls ref the any case or section. Regards Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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Dear Sidh,
Kindly refer to Sec. 51-A, 51-B, 51-C, and 51-D of the ESI Act. Your doubts will be cleared. The place of the accident has no role to play in deciding the eligibility of the benefits until the moment the injury has arisen out of and in the course of employment.
Regards,
Anil Kaushik
From India, Delhi
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Kindly refer to Sec. 51-A, 51-B, 51-C, and 51-D of the ESI Act. Your doubts will be cleared. The place of the accident has no role to play in deciding the eligibility of the benefits until the moment the injury has arisen out of and in the course of employment.
Regards,
Anil Kaushik
From India, Delhi
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Dear Sid,
Please don't take it otherwise, but I feel you are expecting that this is a free consultancy site. It is not. It is a forum where we share our ideas and expertise. I don't know, but most people here look for freebies which they can download, copy paste, or incorporate into their work without putting in enough effort. Our members have been extremely helpful and open. I feel both Anil and I have provided you with enough material. If you are not convinced, all you have to do is visit the ESIC office, meet the Inspector, and clarify. If that seems like a lot of work to you, then pick up the phone and call your local ESI office.
Please don't develop the habit of being spoon-fed. It does not look good and never pays off. Sorry if I am being harsh.
Regards,
SC
From India, Thane
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Please don't take it otherwise, but I feel you are expecting that this is a free consultancy site. It is not. It is a forum where we share our ideas and expertise. I don't know, but most people here look for freebies which they can download, copy paste, or incorporate into their work without putting in enough effort. Our members have been extremely helpful and open. I feel both Anil and I have provided you with enough material. If you are not convinced, all you have to do is visit the ESIC office, meet the Inspector, and clarify. If that seems like a lot of work to you, then pick up the phone and call your local ESI office.
Please don't develop the habit of being spoon-fed. It does not look good and never pays off. Sorry if I am being harsh.
Regards,
SC
From India, Thane
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Dear Sidhu,
This is a forum, a place where all the professionals come to empathize, anticipate, as well as participate. We have seniors, newcomers, and trainees in the strata. Mr. Anil and Mr. Swastik had given their best to help you out. Don't misinterpret their helping and sharing nature. I think if you are that wise and learned, and you feel you are capable to test others' IQ, then you should be smart enough to choose the language. The remarks you make are read by all.
Remember: Knowledge with modesty is a winner. But knowledge with ego or attitude will make an indelible mark of a bad impression. Don't make your knowledge or wisdom look wasted or useless with your bad or wrong usage of communication. The posting guidelines of any composing message say very clearly to be professional with your language and conduct.
Regards,
Moushmi
From India, Mumbai
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This is a forum, a place where all the professionals come to empathize, anticipate, as well as participate. We have seniors, newcomers, and trainees in the strata. Mr. Anil and Mr. Swastik had given their best to help you out. Don't misinterpret their helping and sharing nature. I think if you are that wise and learned, and you feel you are capable to test others' IQ, then you should be smart enough to choose the language. The remarks you make are read by all.
Remember: Knowledge with modesty is a winner. But knowledge with ego or attitude will make an indelible mark of a bad impression. Don't make your knowledge or wisdom look wasted or useless with your bad or wrong usage of communication. The posting guidelines of any composing message say very clearly to be professional with your language and conduct.
Regards,
Moushmi
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Member,
A small query, I need to clarify:
1) Company Name: Left and Right India Ltd.
2) Total manpower strength: 25
3) Number of employees whose gross salary is less than Rs. 7500.00 p.m.: 15
4) Number of employees whose basic salary is less than Rs. 6500.00 p.m.: 20
5) Company: Factory as per Factory Act
In this condition, please clarify if both Acts are applicable or not?
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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A small query, I need to clarify:
1) Company Name: Left and Right India Ltd.
2) Total manpower strength: 25
3) Number of employees whose gross salary is less than Rs. 7500.00 p.m.: 15
4) Number of employees whose basic salary is less than Rs. 6500.00 p.m.: 20
5) Company: Factory as per Factory Act
In this condition, please clarify if both Acts are applicable or not?
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Mousami,
I believe in Newton's Third Law. If the action force is greater, the reaction force will also be greater, and vice versa. We can politely convince anyone without being harsh. If someone is behaving...
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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I believe in Newton's Third Law. If the action force is greater, the reaction force will also be greater, and vice versa. We can politely convince anyone without being harsh. If someone is behaving...
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Sidhu,
That's not a quality of any HR. Human Resource after all. Besides, nobody said anything to you in any harsh way for you to react. Calm down, Sidhu. With age and experience, you will understand. Let peace be with you.
Regards,
Moushmi
From India, Mumbai
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That's not a quality of any HR. Human Resource after all. Besides, nobody said anything to you in any harsh way for you to react. Calm down, Sidhu. With age and experience, you will understand. Let peace be with you.
Regards,
Moushmi
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Mousami,
Have you handled unions as HR? With age and experience, lots of things change. For your information, I am not a child. I have 6.5 years of experience in handling business, not only HR.
I believe in waiting and watching and then reacting. Anyway, welcome for good suggestions. If I find that it really suits me, I will absorb it without any delay.
Thanks for your suggestions and feedback. Please give feedback about my article postings, replies, and behavior. It will improve my effectiveness and be fruitful for the organization as well as personal life.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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Have you handled unions as HR? With age and experience, lots of things change. For your information, I am not a child. I have 6.5 years of experience in handling business, not only HR.
I believe in waiting and watching and then reacting. Anyway, welcome for good suggestions. If I find that it really suits me, I will absorb it without any delay.
Thanks for your suggestions and feedback. Please give feedback about my article postings, replies, and behavior. It will improve my effectiveness and be fruitful for the organization as well as personal life.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Sidh,
I have been going through the mails on this topic. I appreciate your knowledge and wisdom on the topic. Kindly don't use this forum to create any controversy or ill will among members. I agree with Swastik and Moushmi. Don't forget that when replying to any query, a member has to devote some time to the issue, and you should take it seriously. Kindly don't use this forum to create a bad taste. If this is the level of discussion, I would like to withdraw from the group. In my career of 30 years, I have not seen such a time-wasting exercise. Do you have so much time?
Regards,
Anil Kaushik
From India, Delhi
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I have been going through the mails on this topic. I appreciate your knowledge and wisdom on the topic. Kindly don't use this forum to create any controversy or ill will among members. I agree with Swastik and Moushmi. Don't forget that when replying to any query, a member has to devote some time to the issue, and you should take it seriously. Kindly don't use this forum to create a bad taste. If this is the level of discussion, I would like to withdraw from the group. In my career of 30 years, I have not seen such a time-wasting exercise. Do you have so much time?
Regards,
Anil Kaushik
From India, Delhi
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Dear Sir,
Kindly suggest the same to other members too!
I have never commented before. If you comment badly on me, I am not going to leave you. I have joined this forum to learn more and more but how? Only through discussion.
Let me give you an example from when I was doing my HR course. There was a discussion on the Maternity Benefit Act. In this act, there was a little confusion in the definition of "woman." Generally, a woman means a "married girl." I raised in the class, if an unmarried working girl became pregnant, then is she entitled to get benefits under this Act or not?
A lot of discussion took place, and finally, the conclusion was that she will get the benefits. Now, you tell me, does this query convey my naughty attitude, or has my knowledge been enhanced?
Similarly, if I am citing some examples repeatedly, it doesn't mean that you should comment on me. As an HR professional, you can politely deny my views, but what happened in the case of Swastik? Please reply because you have 30 years of experience.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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Kindly suggest the same to other members too!
I have never commented before. If you comment badly on me, I am not going to leave you. I have joined this forum to learn more and more but how? Only through discussion.
Let me give you an example from when I was doing my HR course. There was a discussion on the Maternity Benefit Act. In this act, there was a little confusion in the definition of "woman." Generally, a woman means a "married girl." I raised in the class, if an unmarried working girl became pregnant, then is she entitled to get benefits under this Act or not?
A lot of discussion took place, and finally, the conclusion was that she will get the benefits. Now, you tell me, does this query convey my naughty attitude, or has my knowledge been enhanced?
Similarly, if I am citing some examples repeatedly, it doesn't mean that you should comment on me. As an HR professional, you can politely deny my views, but what happened in the case of Swastik? Please reply because you have 30 years of experience.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Sid,
If you remember the case of "catching fakers," I was supporting your views. Similarly, please remember that most Cite HR members discuss a particular topic and give their opinions. In no way do any of us try to belittle the other. We are in the same profession, and we empathize with one another. The discussion is not personal, so kindly don't take it personally.
I would like to state that in no event did I doubt your sincerity or depth of knowledge, but all I wanted to say was that each one of us takes time out to support the other. We are contributing and will keep on doing so, but I am personally against spoon-feeding people because I feel the urge to put in effort and exercise your mind starts falling. Still, I am sorry if I have offended you.
At least, one thing I can tell you from the discussion is that you may have a lot of knowledge, but you still don't know the difference between ESI and WC and why they were enacted? Sorry again.
Regards, SC
From India, Thane
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If you remember the case of "catching fakers," I was supporting your views. Similarly, please remember that most Cite HR members discuss a particular topic and give their opinions. In no way do any of us try to belittle the other. We are in the same profession, and we empathize with one another. The discussion is not personal, so kindly don't take it personally.
I would like to state that in no event did I doubt your sincerity or depth of knowledge, but all I wanted to say was that each one of us takes time out to support the other. We are contributing and will keep on doing so, but I am personally against spoon-feeding people because I feel the urge to put in effort and exercise your mind starts falling. Still, I am sorry if I have offended you.
At least, one thing I can tell you from the discussion is that you may have a lot of knowledge, but you still don't know the difference between ESI and WC and why they were enacted? Sorry again.
Regards, SC
From India, Thane
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Dear SC,
Both are social security legislations. They are enacted with the aim of providing some sort of relief and developing security for the working class while they are doing risky jobs, so that they can work freely. It is a type of motivation. It is nothing but providing assistance or relief to employees or dependents through laws when they encounter trouble or problems at work. If there is no binding on the employer through legislation, not a single employer will compensate the employee or dependent as the case may be. If an employee meets with an accident and dies, what will happen to their dependents? How will they sustain their lives? How will children receive proper education or medical care if they are not yet mature? How will the wife/parents sustain their lives if the breadwinner is no more?
I hope you understand why this law was enacted and have no doubts about me.
Difference Between ESIC and WC: a file enclosed.....
You are most welcome to raise queries from HR and Admin areas. I will try to contribute more and more, but at the same time, I apply Newton's law in most fields as I think.
There is no personal fight with any individual. It is a fight of concepts based on knowledge. This forum is for enhancing knowledge through talk, discussion, queries, etc.
Note: No good governance if there is no opposition. Please keep in mind.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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Both are social security legislations. They are enacted with the aim of providing some sort of relief and developing security for the working class while they are doing risky jobs, so that they can work freely. It is a type of motivation. It is nothing but providing assistance or relief to employees or dependents through laws when they encounter trouble or problems at work. If there is no binding on the employer through legislation, not a single employer will compensate the employee or dependent as the case may be. If an employee meets with an accident and dies, what will happen to their dependents? How will they sustain their lives? How will children receive proper education or medical care if they are not yet mature? How will the wife/parents sustain their lives if the breadwinner is no more?
I hope you understand why this law was enacted and have no doubts about me.
Difference Between ESIC and WC: a file enclosed.....
You are most welcome to raise queries from HR and Admin areas. I will try to contribute more and more, but at the same time, I apply Newton's law in most fields as I think.
There is no personal fight with any individual. It is a fight of concepts based on knowledge. This forum is for enhancing knowledge through talk, discussion, queries, etc.
Note: No good governance if there is no opposition. Please keep in mind.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Sid,
The difference you gave me is informative for freshers and students and not experienced professionals. I should not have replied to you the way I did because you are still in the theoretical state and not very clear about the applicability. Do you ever contribute or put your comments and suggestions to the various Labour Laws Review Board set up by the Government? I think you do not. You are still into reading the Statutes, not the Law Commissions report or Parliament Speeches.
Anyway, I will try to differentiate between ESI and WC.
WC was enacted by the British keeping in view the ILO movement, which was going on around the world. To build up an international progressive image after World War I, the US, Britain, and other countries started the ILO movement. In 1923, the British Government enacted the Law to show their intent and sincerity regarding the movement.
The ESI was enacted with a view to provide not only Insurance Coverage but also treatment. The Act shows the transition from a colonial government whose intention was to be just humane in the international arena to a sovereign government who cared about its people. The Government of India, with a view towards a socialist economy, introduced this legislation which not only gives compensation on death and disablement but also provides treatment to the worker and his/her dependants at a very nominal cost through a comprehensive insurance policy where both the employee, employer, and Government contributed. The setting up of the ESIC was actually a fulfillment of one of the socialist commitments of our Government.
The covering of the whole of India and administering the whole scheme at one go was virtually impossible at that time, keeping in mind our economy and administration. The Government decided to go along with the Coverage of ESI in a phased manner. If you look at the Act, it says it extends to the whole of India.
Actually, the main aim of ESI is not just compensation but both Compensation and treatment. So, the building up of Treatment facilities (Infrastructure) is the reason ESI has not achieved full coverage. The logic is simple: you cannot make someone pay in full and provide partial services. Hence, in places where the ESIC had not been able to provide Treatment facilities, it has kept the coverage out.
Another important concept here is that no section debars the payment of WC, in addition to ESI. What it debars is that an employee cannot claim benefits under both legislatures OR, the other way round, an employer cannot be forced to pay benefits under both acts. It is a protection given to the Employers. So, SID, if your imaginary company pays both ESI and WC together to the imaginary deceased employee VOLUNTARILY, there is no bar. Remember the basic concept: you cannot debar anyone from giving more benefits, doing more welfare, or providing better security to the working classes in and above the statute. You cannot pay less. But the Imaginary dependants of the imaginary deceased employee of your Imaginary Company cannot claim benefits under both acts.
The last thing I would like to state is that you have never faced a death/disablement case in your service life.
If you want to clear your ideas, simply ask. Please don't set up an imaginary situation and make a mockery of yourself.
As for the Maternity Benefit Act, you need not be naughty to gain knowledge. The Maternity Benefit Act was the result of one of the series of legislation enacted by the Indian Government as a part of its commitment as an ILO founder member to the plight of Women Workers in the workplace. The whole idea was to give equal opportunity and protect women from exploitation in the workplace. Previously, during pregnancy, either the women workers were sacked or forced to work during the advanced stages, which resulted in increased death, infant mortality, and unhealthy babies. This resulted from either the hard work the mother had to do at her place of work or due to undernourishment from the loss of a job. Hence, the objective of the Act was to protect the woman and her child, not to uphold social morality.
Regards,
SC
From India, Thane
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The difference you gave me is informative for freshers and students and not experienced professionals. I should not have replied to you the way I did because you are still in the theoretical state and not very clear about the applicability. Do you ever contribute or put your comments and suggestions to the various Labour Laws Review Board set up by the Government? I think you do not. You are still into reading the Statutes, not the Law Commissions report or Parliament Speeches.
Anyway, I will try to differentiate between ESI and WC.
WC was enacted by the British keeping in view the ILO movement, which was going on around the world. To build up an international progressive image after World War I, the US, Britain, and other countries started the ILO movement. In 1923, the British Government enacted the Law to show their intent and sincerity regarding the movement.
The ESI was enacted with a view to provide not only Insurance Coverage but also treatment. The Act shows the transition from a colonial government whose intention was to be just humane in the international arena to a sovereign government who cared about its people. The Government of India, with a view towards a socialist economy, introduced this legislation which not only gives compensation on death and disablement but also provides treatment to the worker and his/her dependants at a very nominal cost through a comprehensive insurance policy where both the employee, employer, and Government contributed. The setting up of the ESIC was actually a fulfillment of one of the socialist commitments of our Government.
The covering of the whole of India and administering the whole scheme at one go was virtually impossible at that time, keeping in mind our economy and administration. The Government decided to go along with the Coverage of ESI in a phased manner. If you look at the Act, it says it extends to the whole of India.
Actually, the main aim of ESI is not just compensation but both Compensation and treatment. So, the building up of Treatment facilities (Infrastructure) is the reason ESI has not achieved full coverage. The logic is simple: you cannot make someone pay in full and provide partial services. Hence, in places where the ESIC had not been able to provide Treatment facilities, it has kept the coverage out.
Another important concept here is that no section debars the payment of WC, in addition to ESI. What it debars is that an employee cannot claim benefits under both legislatures OR, the other way round, an employer cannot be forced to pay benefits under both acts. It is a protection given to the Employers. So, SID, if your imaginary company pays both ESI and WC together to the imaginary deceased employee VOLUNTARILY, there is no bar. Remember the basic concept: you cannot debar anyone from giving more benefits, doing more welfare, or providing better security to the working classes in and above the statute. You cannot pay less. But the Imaginary dependants of the imaginary deceased employee of your Imaginary Company cannot claim benefits under both acts.
The last thing I would like to state is that you have never faced a death/disablement case in your service life.
If you want to clear your ideas, simply ask. Please don't set up an imaginary situation and make a mockery of yourself.
As for the Maternity Benefit Act, you need not be naughty to gain knowledge. The Maternity Benefit Act was the result of one of the series of legislation enacted by the Indian Government as a part of its commitment as an ILO founder member to the plight of Women Workers in the workplace. The whole idea was to give equal opportunity and protect women from exploitation in the workplace. Previously, during pregnancy, either the women workers were sacked or forced to work during the advanced stages, which resulted in increased death, infant mortality, and unhealthy babies. This resulted from either the hard work the mother had to do at her place of work or due to undernourishment from the loss of a job. Hence, the objective of the Act was to protect the woman and her child, not to uphold social morality.
Regards,
SC
From India, Thane
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Dear Swastik,
Your views on the basic differences between ESI and WC are 100% correct and full of objectivity and reasons behind these two enactments. My sincere request to you is not to provide unsolicited beneficial knowledge without exhibiting a deep study and exposure to the subject. This is a good piece of writing.
One should not impart knowledge to those who do not have the courtesy to respect it.
Regards,
Anil Kaushik
Chief Editor
'Business Manager'
Smriti Sadan, 28 Raghu Marg, Alwar (Raj.) 301001
Ph.: 144-2330997 Mob.: 09829133699
From India, Delhi
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Your views on the basic differences between ESI and WC are 100% correct and full of objectivity and reasons behind these two enactments. My sincere request to you is not to provide unsolicited beneficial knowledge without exhibiting a deep study and exposure to the subject. This is a good piece of writing.
One should not impart knowledge to those who do not have the courtesy to respect it.
Regards,
Anil Kaushik
Chief Editor
'Business Manager'
Smriti Sadan, 28 Raghu Marg, Alwar (Raj.) 301001
Ph.: 144-2330997 Mob.: 09829133699
From India, Delhi
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Dear SC,
I think you are still in confusion. What you have written is the same thing I have written. You may have bookish knowledge more than practical experience. As per my knowledge and experience, I have provided enough information. If you have any doubts, you can speak directly to me on the phone. I know all the ins and outs. For your information, I handle cases too.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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I think you are still in confusion. What you have written is the same thing I have written. You may have bookish knowledge more than practical experience. As per my knowledge and experience, I have provided enough information. If you have any doubts, you can speak directly to me on the phone. I know all the ins and outs. For your information, I handle cases too.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear SC, You are still into reading the Statutes not the Law Commissions report or Parliament Speeches===> files enclosed for ur info. if u hav more reports, enclose here. Regards Sidhehswar
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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Dear SC,
The last thing I would like to state is that you have never faced a death or disablement case in your service life. If you want to clarify your ideas, simply ask. Please don't set up an imaginary situation and make a mockery of yourself. A file of a death case is enclosed to decide who is mocking.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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The last thing I would like to state is that you have never faced a death or disablement case in your service life. If you want to clarify your ideas, simply ask. Please don't set up an imaginary situation and make a mockery of yourself. A file of a death case is enclosed to decide who is mocking.
Regards,
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
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Can any body tell me if i take a one person for construction work in a company premises and he met an accident what is the effect of esi
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Very good question. Unfortunately, the discussion shifted to nowhere. Let us restart the discussion. A question - A firm is registered and operating in a non-ESI area. But at the time of the accident, out of deployment, the person was found to have engaged in an ESI notified area. Can the dependents of the person claim ESI?
From India, Calcutta
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From India, Calcutta
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ESI Amendment Act 2010-Gazette Notification-01 -06-10.pdf
FORMS under the ESI Act.doc