Hi,

I worked in a software firm for almost 2 years with 2 years of fake experience. Just after completing the project, they kicked me out because one of my team members complained to HR about me. Even that person had fake experience, and I believe I know more than 60 friends working in good MNC software firms with fake experience. I don't want to betray my friend who screwed me over or the other friends I know, but I am not willing to take what happened to me lightly.

I still have not received my relieving and experience letters from my company. Could you please advise me on what I should do next? I am feeling a bit upset.

From India, Hyderabad
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Greetings,

First and foremost, you have paid for what you did wrong. Please don't count the ones who have been using fake experience. Here is my experience that I would like to share; I hope this helps you to decide for yourself.

We had a VP of Operations in one of the firms I worked with who was fired during a background verification audit for the existing employees. I am sure the friends you have mentioned would have climbed up the ladder, only to be confronted with something like this and potentially losing their entire careers to it. Would you want to find yourself in such a condition?

I have managed background verification, and I know how it works. When the complete process is followed, every gap and fake piece of information is exposed. Your friends may be able to deceive one process in one company, but not everywhere. Take my words, it will show up.

Apart from background verification, I believe it is a personal responsibility to be truthful about yourself. Why do you think so many people lost their jobs when the market was down? Don't you think we could have saved our work if we had been honest and claimed the salary and position we truly deserved? Faking to get ahead is not a short-term strategy; it is the riskiest one.

Please be true to yourself as you have a chance to start afresh with honesty. When you build your career now, you won't face a threat as precarious as this. Stay honest about your profile; that's the best thing you can do to protect your work.

Write an honest resume and get hired for what you know. The technical rounds will reflect your knowledge in technology. You must have worked hard and managed projects, so remain fearless.

Wish you all the best!

Regards,
(Cite Contribution)


From India, Mumbai
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Hello honestbutfakeexp,

Nice to meet you in this forum. I also faked my experience many times in my career. But I had my own justification for faking experience. In one of my previous companies (A well-known multinational), I had a senior-level colleague. Still, I don't know on what basis he got a senior-level position in that famous company! I strongly feel that he might have had some good relations with some of the top management people. He was not able to manage the work, and most of the time he approached me to find solutions to the problems. At that time, I realized that there was not much difference between me and my senior! Then I started faking my experience to fill the gaps in my career so that I could increase the number of years after my graduation. To be frank, most of the HR Managers also focus on that magical 'numbers' only. Most of the time, I succeeded, and a few times I got caught. I never bothered about the times I have been caught because it was negligible compared to my successful attempts. However, I succeeded in my career and worked with well-known as well as third-rate companies. As long as you are a performer and have enough skill and in-depth knowledge in your industry/domain, you can fake your experience, and nothing is going to happen. I wish you good luck in your future endeavors.

Regards,

fakexpert

from the software industry

From United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi
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Hi,

I agree with Mr. Fake as well as Mr. Alwar. It's not always that you'll get caught. If you want to become something in your life, start taking risks. Also, if you check the past status of big-shot people, you'll find many who have come up by doing unethical things.

The recipe for success is honesty plus a few unethical activities equals name, fame, money, and everything you are dreaming about.

From India, Thana
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No one is perfect by any measure. Look at this crazy job market and all the people who have lost good jobs. It is the driving force behind people doing unethical acts. I believe that honesty is the best policy. You could starve with this point of view intact these days. It is a different world. Just ask the many millions who are unemployed from all industries.

I am quite sure that half of the IT Industry is packed with "fakes" and plenty of exaggerated jobs that people claim they completed. What are we going to do about it, put a "WatchDog" group in to do fact checks on everyone's previous employment. Who would fund such a task? No one. Faking has been going on for decades, and it is nothing new.

If you look at the impossible job requirements out here right now that are not being filled, why? Because Superman or Superwoman doesn't exist. If you get a good job now, you are working for three people. So where is the fine line? It is unethical all the way around. The employer is the culprit. He has the last word and the first one too. If he wants to hire a bunch of fakes, he does. So long as he is getting paid via contract and you are performing, he doesn't care.

At the end of the day, you have to look in the mirror and be satisfied with the decision you make. If you feel justified by your misdeeds, that is up to you. Honesty is the best policy because it will eventually catch up to you in some form or another. You might call it bad luck or something. Good luck.

From United States, Washington
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Hi,

Good to see lots of suggestions for your query, but I would suggest you to go through all the suggestions and listen to your heart. If you find any difficulties, place a hand on your heart and say, "ALL IS WELL, ALL IS WELL," and go on.

Best of luck!

From India, Thana
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To counter the problem of fake CVs, we need to ensure that every prospective employee has a unique identification number, which will soon be issued by the government under the Aadhaar scheme. It should be mandatory for individuals to include their Unique Identity Number and PAN number on every resume, including those of freshers, to facilitate the tracking of personal profiles. The industry must support this initiative as it will prove beneficial in the long run by profiling job applicants with questionable backgrounds.

When it comes to fake claims, one approach could be to subject potential recruits to rigorous testing. If a candidate performs exceptionally well, it is likely to reduce the occurrence of problems. However, in the case of fake CVs, the responsibility lies with each individual's conscience. Misrepresentation tends to have consequences eventually.

The prevalence of fake CVs is not just an organizational issue but a social one as well. This problem stems from the normalization of dishonesty in society and interpersonal relationships. Unless we address and minimize these small falsehoods, the issue of fake CVs will persist.

From India, Bangalore
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Hi Dear,

This is unethical and unprofessional. I expect none of our members will support you in this regard. Please be honest and truthful. You will be rewarded in your life. Many companies prefer hiring fresher employees so they can be trained. It would be better to look for a job.

Regards,
Shaikh

From India, Bhubaneswar
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Hi Shaikh, Your absolutely right, and i also feel that when a person fakes about himself the first thing he loses is SELF RESPECT. Good times come late but wait with honesty. Regards Anand
From India, Bangalore
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Dear XUYAOMIN99,

Please provide more details about the Aadhaar Scheme. However, I do not trust any government schemes. One person can obtain 1001 unique identity cards if they have influence and money.

Eliminating fake CVs is a good idea, but can we really rely on it?

Thank you.

From Oman, Muscat
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It is so unpleasing to see people share experiences of faking their work experience, and moreover other people joining them to share their own and encourage those. I don't understand what people are trying to tell each other. Just because there are many others who have faked and achieved success, it doesn't mean we become one of the lot. Why can't you see people who have begun from nothing and achieved success? But I guess that would be a harder way for the easy goers.

The least one can do is be true to oneself. There is no need to prove others. Firstly, prove yourself. My question here to all the fakers would be, "Do you mean if you have nothing to show on your experience, you cannot earn a career for yourself?"

From India, Mumbai
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Dear All,

I have a question for all HR professionals regarding fake experiences. Have you all ever thought why people like them feel the need to show fake experience and how they are able to maintain it for 2 years or more in a company (like the thread starter's case)? They must possess certain skill sets that enable them to sustain themselves in a company for a longer duration. Somewhere here, the hiring policy is at fault. Sometimes, we only give more importance to the piece of paper called an "Experience Letter" instead of assessing the competencies of the individual. If a person with competency is not allowed to enter without an Experience Letter, how will he/she get a chance to showcase their talent?

This type of recruitment policy needs to be revised. Although this does not imply that people should resort to using fake letters, they should have the patience to wait for a company where they will be evaluated based on their skills rather than a letter.

Mayuri

From India, Pune
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I do not know what to say, but again, every individual has their truth. There is nothing right or wrong out there. We, as Indians, can never vouch for our ethics as each of us has committed one or the other wrong during our lifetime - whether submitting fake rent certificates, fake medical bills, or even accepting money in black while selling your property or renting out your house. Blame it on the system or on the rain. As long as our actions are not causing hurt to others, I guess you follow what's your truth but perform. All the best to you. But remember, if 10 others have performed an action like the one you did and it resulted in adversity, it doesn't absolve your liability.
From United States, San Francisco
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Hello Priya,

You are right. If we have money and muscle power, we can obtain an infinite number of identity cards, experience certificates, and other pertinent documents to fool anyone. However, we cannot purchase 'knowledge' from the market.

Moreover, from my life experiences, I have realized that 'knowledge' is not equivalent to the 'number of years' we have spent in a company after our basic educational qualification. I can prove this by exposing some of my managers' profiles.

Regards,
fakexpert


From United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi
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Hello Mayuri,

You are on the right path, and the queries raised by you are absolutely thought-provoking for all HR people in this forum. I would like to explain a bit more.

I agree with you, a candidate is working in a company only because of his/her basic qualification and skill. I have seen that most of the HR folks give very much importance to the 'experience letter' printed on a company letterhead rather than analyzing the skill and knowledge of the candidate. To be frank, it is so easy to get those letterheads with stamped, if we have some good contacts in the administration wing of any company.

In my earlier career, I had worked with some companies that were not ready to provide an experience certificate after my successful service!!! In this situation, how can we prove our man-hours spent over there? Ultimately, the candidate has been forced to prepare an experience certificate at any cost...

Regards,
fakexpert


From United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi
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Hello, Mr. Fake,

First of all, I appreciate what you have disclosed about yourself. It shows that, basically, you are an honest man, but time has led you to do this.

Fake is everywhere in the industry. Many employers are not genuine in their business or the products they sell. Therefore, it is up to you how you present yourself to new employers - during interviews and especially if you have the talent to handle a senior job. If you think you might need to rely on fake experience, then you just need to align your potentials, previous experiences, and similar industry experiences before proceeding. Employers around the world often demand that the job be completed at any cost, so if you believe you can do it, then there is no need to seek anyone's approval.

All the best.

With regards

From India, Delhi
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Ranjeeb, I strongly disagree to this statement of urs - " And we as Indians can never vouch for our ethics ". Although i mite get examples now, still i do not approve.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Fakexpert,

I don't really know how you can derive such conclusions about HR processes. Sorry to tell you that this shows that you really do not have any insight about the actual recruitment process/post-recruitment process. Let me clarify some things:

1. Yes, we do give lots of importance to experience certificates on letterheads. But to validate it, we also have multiple technical rounds to check what exactly he/she was doing during the said tenure.

2. Most of the companies who want to strive towards excellence would have a good background check process in place. I just got a red alert feedback on a new recruit just a week back because he faked his experience. Our agency would do a thorough check not only on your previous employment but also on other factors such as the nature of separation, grievance issues during the tenure, etc.

3. We normally send a scanned copy of the experience letters to both HR and the line manager of your previous company. I don't know how you'll manage to get through this one.

4. Normally, companies refuse to give experience certificates only if there are issues like resigning without notice period, absconding, refusal to hand over the task, insubordination, etc. I honestly do not think that any management would refuse to give you the letters just because you are resigning. And even if they do, you can very well openly say that in your next org. However, if you are straightforward, there would be no requirement to do any of these things.

Radhika


From India, Kochi
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By replying, you are giving credence and a forum to someone who is proud to be fake and justifies it with his own set of reasons. Many such fakes we have to see every day.

Someone who started late from home, in overdrive, loses control and kills another person. He too has his own justification. His family rallies around him and calls him a decent chap who could not control the car. But what excuse do you have to offer the guy who got killed for no fault?

The Onion Traders yesterday asked the government to open the export of onions because they are now abundant in supply in the market and expected to go down to 5-8 rs. a kilo. Since it will be bad for them, Sharad Pawar will open the export facility to them. As per the knowledge, the onion the farmer is selling is for 4-5 rs. kg.

So you see everybody has a valid excuse for their sins and greeds. By responding, we are only giving them a forum, just like the Congress Govt has valid reasons for not disclosing the names of Black Money holders.

You see one more reason, they are their OWN lot. They too have justification. After all, they invested in the Party, just like the Fuel Mafia in Maharashtra has invested in the state govt. and will get some solemn advice.

From India, Mumbai
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As you mentioned, from an employee to a minister, everyone seems to be fake. At least if a person is showing a fake certificate, they are not harming anyone. I just want to tell you that the problem here is never with people; it is with our system. Instead of blaming everybody, one should find the root cause of this issue (at least in our HR fraternity, we can do it). Unfortunately, in India, the roots of corruption have become too strong to uproot. Yet, it is not impossible.

Mayuri

From India, Pune
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Hello Radhika,

Nice to meet a forum member from the Queen of the Arabian Sea.

As I said in my earlier reply, I have been caught a few times. But I never bothered about it because it was negligible compared to my successful attempts. That means the majority of the companies were in a mood to hire me and utilize my potential for our mutual growth. I really enjoyed those days with them, and who cares about the rest of the companies that rejected my candidature.

If my memory is right, many of them are still in the top-notch list and never lose their pride after my inclusion.

I have plenty of contacts in my previous companies from top to bottom levels. So, I know very well how to tackle it. Even though I lied many times, for example, my previous company's HR manager had been killed in an accident two weeks back, and it would take a minimum of three months to hire a new HR manager, etc. Many other tactics are also available. Unfortunately, I can't expose all of it here as it is a trade secret like the chemistry of 'Coca-Cola'. Actually, giving false information is a sin, but what to do, I also want to run my business.

Yeah, I agree with you, and many reasons described by you look good for denying an experience certificate. But one thing you forgot for a while; we are all living in India, and we know well how our government offices are working. Now I am coming to the point. If you get a chance to work with low-profile companies following the Indian government system, then you can realize why these types of firms are not interested in issuing an experience certificate.

Regards,

fakexpert


From United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi
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Hi to all,

I am here not for discussing this topic. Guys, please help by sending a good resignation letter and experience letter because I am quitting from my present company. My manager is a bit closer to me, so he said, "You make the papers yourself and come to me; I will sign them." But the problem is, I need a good one. Please, professionals, help. This matter is urgent.

Thanks with Best Regards,
Mahesh

From India
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Mahesh,

I believe what you have written is in no connection to this post. You can write your requirement in the post you find suits you well. I guess you have written here because this post has the maximum number of views. I request you to continue with your post separately or in another forum. You can also get your requirement by adding it in the Search column.

From India, Mumbai
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Dear Fakexpert,

I saw the reply only just now and am heading home. I will draft a reply and post it tomorrow morning.

@ Mayuri: I choose to disagree with your point totally, "But at least if a person showing a fake certificate is not harming anyone." A person faking their experience is actually harming a deserving candidate. We might select a smart fake candidate but might reject a hardworking, honest candidate. Remember, professionally you can train someone, but such attitude issues can never be changed. So, as an HR professional, I would request you never to plant such thoughts in the reader's mind.

Radhika

From India, Kochi
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Hello Radhika,

To be frank, I am supporting Mayuri's comment, "A person who is showing a fake experience certificate is not harming anyone." I am supporting fake experience certificates only. I am totally against faking university degree/diploma certificates because those certificates are the result of a person's hard work. Faking degree/diploma certificates is a totally different subject, and I have no interest in entering that subject.

Radhika, I don't think that it is forbidden to attend an interview or apply for a job with a fake experience certificate. In an interview, the interviewer analyzes the candidate's capability (knowledge, skill, enthusiasm, confidence, etc.) to handle the job and produce the output/result. If a candidate with a fake experience certificate has more capability than a candidate with a genuine experience certificate, then who is worthy for the employer? I strongly feel that 99% of the candidates who adjust something in their resumes or prepare fake experience certificates do so to get more interview calls. I don't think that companies will shake hands with any candidate based on their experience on an A4 size paper. If you (interview team) can't pick the right one (the skilled one, not the fool with a genuine exp. certificate), then it is totally your interview team's inability, and it shows weak areas within your team itself. Moreover, it is our prejudice thought that a fellow who committed a wrong thing will do it again in his/her entire lifetime. Otherwise, the person should have a mental disorder.

Radhika, hardworking and faking experience certificates are totally different subjects. If I have a job, I have to work hard and show my stuff; then only I can survive in my industry. But a fake experience certificate is just a supporting document to convince the employer to get an opportunity to perform. Unfortunately, our system is still running behind A4 size experience certificates on company letterhead.

Regards,

fakexpert


From United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi
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Dear Radhika,

I raised the point - "But at least if a person showing a fake certificate is not harming anyone," comparing with our politicians, their fakes are negligible (for the issue raised by Mr. shridharb2004).

By this, it doesn't mean that I'm saying the person showing fake experience is honest. But at the same time, you cannot say that he/she is unworthy.

What I am trying to request all HRs is to come out of those A4 size experience letters. So many people exaggerate their experience/job profile in their resumes (almost everyone). Unfortunately, you don't have that much stronger background verification process to analyze each and every line written on their resume.

Aren't they fake?

Recruitment should be based on competencies, not on the Experience Letters. Being an HR, it should be our competency to judge it.

If we remove the word "exp" from our requirements/Job description column, the candidates will no longer require the help of any fake certificate.

We have to remove the root cause.

One more thing, these fake certificates are usually used by the fakers for junior positions only.

Mayuri

From India, Pune
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Dear All,

@ Fake Expert: No matter what rationale you give, faking is faking. If you are genuinely smart, you will get hired. You don't have to fake anything. Again, there is a saying that it's a crime only when you commit it for the first time. From then on, it becomes a habit. I normally judge people by such things. So, I'm sorry, I refuse to buy that argument.

@ Mayuri: If someone steals 5 Rs from somewhere, it's still called stealing. There is nothing called comparative stealing, comparative faking, or comparative harming, etc. In that case, people who smoke in public or those not wearing a helmet should not be punished at all because it's so harmless compared to murder.

Rules are rules, and such small instances make you judge people. Ethical people reflect honesty in every action. Non-ethical people would find hundreds of reasons to justify themselves. A terrorist will have his own justification for his actions. Please remember it's rightly said that truth has only one face.

Anyways, I don't see a point in writing beyond this. So, guys, carry on. Let's have more constructive arguments.

Loads of work pending!!!

A silent Cite HR reader,

Radhika

From India, Kochi
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Radhika, you are still failing to understand me.

Will you file an FIR if someone steals 1 Rs. of yours? But you'll do it if it's 1 lakh. Why? We are not programmed machines to run on a set of instructions...! We have to use our minds and hearts to analyze the gravity of issues. I believe in finding solutions for the problem. And to solve the problem, you have to uproot the cause of sin; punishing or killing the sinner is not the solution. If we really want to make the world a better place to live, we have to find out the loopholes encouraging malpractices. Only then can you get a permanent solution.

I feel now we are straying away from the topic. Being an HR person, I just wanted to recommend some changes in our HR policies.

Have a nice day!

Mayuri

From India, Pune
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Hello Radhika,

First of all, I would like to say that I have no interest in changing your mindset or your ideology.

As you said, "if you are genuinely smart, you will get hired"; it will be slightly difficult for me to digest as I have never seen any selection process 'only based on smartness'. If it were true, then there would be no discussion about fake experience certificates!

I don't think that you have never lied in your life from childhood to date. But it doesn't mean that you are always spreading false information! People who commit crimes (theft, robbery, scam, murder, etc.) seriously harm others financially or physically, and we cannot justify it under any circumstances. However, the issue of fake experience certificates and heinous crimes are entirely different subjects, and we cannot weigh them on the same standard.

Finally, one more thing: rules and laws are framed for the benefit of people. It does not mean that people exist only to follow rules and laws. We have seen that many laws are still not implemented due to public protest. Those laws remain only on paper, and the government cannot implement them as they seem unrealistic.

Regards,

fakexpert


From United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi
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Would like to comment on this post supporting Radhika, but I guess this will just give answers to my reply and not to the overall post.

Let us just stop discussing with each other and focus on the main post.

From India, Mumbai
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Dear All Greeting of the Day!!! I also going to take admission SAP with HR. Please Suggest should i do or not?
From India, Gurgaon
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I was watching the entire post about submission. Just imagine that you are a progressive employer and offered a job to a fresher candidate. Some months later, you realize that all his submitted documents were fake. From your posts, I believe that you may allow the person to continue in your company. But just inform how you will change your mindset towards this employee? You feel good? Just want to know. A person who thinks about fake is always fake. There are plenty of other genuine ways to get into jobs. I, as a person—not as HR or an employee—will not support any submission of fake supporting documents. Waiting for your justification on fake documents.

Regards,
Soja

From India, Kochi
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Hello Soja,

First of all, I would like to clarify that my area of interest is limited to fake experience certificate issues only, and I have never supported fake degree/diploma certificates. This was clearly mentioned in my earlier replies.

I would like to rephrase some of your comments, "Just imagine that you are a progressive employer and offered a job to a fresher candidate. Some months later, you realized that the submitted documents were all fake."

If all the supporting documents of a candidate were fake, what does that imply? It means that he/she is fake. Therefore, our discussion should focus solely on fake experience certificates. Please refrain from bringing up other certificates in this discussion.

As an employer, I do not pay much attention to experience listed on an A4 size paper. However, I do take significant notice if a candidate submits fake Ph.D./degree/diploma certificates. As I mentioned in my earlier post, knowledge cannot be purchased from the market.

I always prioritize basic educational qualifications, valid international certifications, as well as the knowledge and skills of the candidate. Within seconds of interviewing a fresh candidate in my domain, I can assess their capabilities. I do not rely on their experience certificate to judge their potential.

In the event of a fake experience certificate issue arising, I would assess the candidate's performance history and behavior. If the candidate is a high performer with good etiquette and shows potential for reaching higher levels, I would likely dismiss this matter.

Regarding another comment you made, "Just want to know. A person who thinks about fake is always fake. There are plenty of other genuine ways to get into jobs." I mentioned in a previous reply that some of our thoughts are biased and cannot be altered.

Moving on to your second statement, I recall a situation when my father made a similar comment upon seeing beggars on the streets. I challenged him with a question, "Dad, why can't you eradicate poverty in India?" Similarly, I pose this question to you, Soja, why can't enough jobs be created in India? Why are numerous graduates still struggling to find employment in cities? Why is the government funding unemployed youths? Are they not actively seeking jobs but sitting at home? Is it because of their honest plea, "Sir/Madam, I graduated yesterday and need a job?" Or is it due to their admission, "Sir/Madam, I have been job hunting for two years without success?"

Regards,

fakexpert

From United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi
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Dear,

Thanks for your reply. You cannot change my attitude, and I cannot change yours. These all depend on personal values other than those mentioned in the rules and policies. I just expressed my views only on submitting fake documents, either academic certificates or experience certificates.

I can give the same weightage to both the fake certificates.

Regards,
Soja

From India, Kochi
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From India, Kochi
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Hello, (Cite Contribution),

Thanks for the reply and your suggestions. But you are wrong. Don't think that honesty always works! Are you saying that truth works? It's absolutely wrong in IT. As you said, my friends also follow up with this, never, because some of them are in Project Manager positions and some are abroad with very reputed MNC companies.

By the way, I am happy at this moment; some good things worked for me again. It really sounds good. When I was working with my real company, I had the best performer awards in my team, and nobody else had it in my team.

In the below tags, someone said that "kicked" means you did something wrong. No, guys, I have not done anything wrong. Even many of my seniors still remember me because I have done some complicated jobs.

Anyways, thanks again. Be real, nothing else. Cheers!

Greetings,
First and foremost, you have paid for what you did wrong. Please don't count the ones who have been using fake experience. Here's my experience that I would like to share. I hope this helps you to decide for yourself.

We had a VP of Operations in one of the firms I worked with who was fired when we had a background verification audit for the existing employees. I am sure the friends you mentioned would have climbed up the ladder, and then imagine being exposed to something like this and losing their entire career. Would you want to find yourself in such a condition?

I have managed background verification. I know how it works. When the complete process is followed, every gap and fake information comes to light. Your friends can fool one process in one company, but not everywhere. Take my words, it will show up.

Apart from background verification, I believe it's a personal responsibility to share what is true about you. Why do you think so many people lost their jobs when the market was down? Don't you think we could have saved our work if we had been honest about it and claimed the salary and position we deserve? Faking to get ahead is not a short-term strategy but the riskiest one.

Please be happy for yourself as you have a chance to start afresh with honesty. Now, when you build your career, you won't face a threat as fickle as this. Please stay honest about your profile; that's the best thing you can do to secure your work.

Write an honest resume and get hired for what you know. The technical rounds will reflect your knowledge in Technology. You must have worked hard and managed projects, so remain fearless.

Wish you all the best!

Regards,
(Cite Contribution)

From India, Hyderabad
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Ashlesha, well, I know it kind of hurts, but without taking names and wishing to continue this discussion (lest the discussion veers into something unintended here), you know your truth and so do others. Unfortunately, though, this doesn't mean that non-Indians are unethical. Perhaps the degree and scale might differ.
From United States, San Francisco
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I would just like to say that because we are Indians, it doesn't tag us that we should be doing something wrong. Though there are many corrupt people, one cannot say that just because there are X number of people faking, I will also do that. We need to live by our principles and not what others do. I feel pity for the way some people think and give excuses for being fake.
From India, Mumbai
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Just like I said people know their own truth.....just reminds me of what emerson once said which aptly sums it all "What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say"....
From United States, San Francisco
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