How Can I Prove My Entrepreneurial Experience Without Official Documents?

I have worked at Oracle India Pvt. Ltd. for 3 years right after completing my B.E. from 2009 to 2012. I then resigned to pursue entrepreneurship. The jump was made with the trust of a group of friends, and we worked hard for 3 years. We had just one person taking care of all administrative work who registered the company as Pvt. Ltd. and had himself and his family members as Directors on paper. The rest of us were just working out of mere trust and had no mention in any official document.

Unfortunately, just a couple of months ago, I was forced to leave the company. As a result, currently, I don't even have an experience certificate from the company because there is no official document proving that I was a part of it. All the proof I have is on my Facebook timeline, showing photos from those old times. So, when I apply for a job at a company now, I can only claim all my experience in entrepreneurship but cannot provide any official documentary proof. What should I do in this case?

Hi Mohan,

If you have resigned properly, then you should have a resignation acceptance copy or any document provided by the company. This may help you in getting a new job.

Thanks.

Hi Ramita,

Unfortunately, it was a bitter conversation that I had with the founder, and then we just parted ways. Neither of us contacted each other. When there is no document stating that I am working in the company, I don't see how there would be a document to say that I resigned from the company.

Hello Mohan, How were you receiving your salary - through cheques, cash, or bank transfer? Were your salary payments regular or irregular? When was the last salary you received here? What is your technical skill profile?

You mentioned, "The rest of us were just working out of mere trust and no mention in any official document." How many people were there like you? Please provide the above information to arrive at a solution. I hope you have learned from this experience - always back up any informal understanding with paperwork.

Frankly, I am surprised. Either you guys have been too naive, or the directors have been too over-smart to take you for a ride.

Regards, TS

Here are the answers. Our payments initially were through cheques and later through bank transfers. Payments were regular, but for the last two months, neither was I paid nor reimbursed for the expenses made, which were assured to be reimbursed. The last salary was in the month of May. In June and July, no payments were made, and I made a decision to discontinue any further communication after that because I was fed up with requesting (literally begging) for my salary and reimbursement persistently.

Roles and Responsibilities

As I stated above, since it was entrepreneurship, I assumed a lot of roles as a speaker, trainer, mentor, sales, marketing, operations, associate editor, etc. About eight of us were working in the core team. Definitely, I have learned loads of lessons with this experience. I think you are right to use "and" instead of "or" in your last statement.

Please give the above inputs to arrive at some solutions. I do hope you have learned your lesson with this experience—always BACKUP any informal understanding with paperwork. Frankly, I am surprised. Either you guys have been too naive, or the Directors have been too over-smart to take you for a ride.

Regards,
TS

Hello Mr. Dhingra! "Any organization can place trust in a piece of paper document, known as an experience certificate, but not in a person." I couldn't grasp the exact meaning of this sentence. Can you kindly elaborate?

Dear Mohan, Any organization can trust a piece of paper document, known as an experience certificate, but not necessarily trust the person behind it. I couldn't grasp the exact meaning of this sentence. Could you please elaborate?

Any organization you work for keeps records of what you submit along with your CV. You are always a stranger to any new organization for which you are applying. They cannot trust a stranger based solely on verbal statements or even written ones unless they have supporting documents from your previous organization regarding your work, conduct, attitudes, and the nature of experience you gained there. This allows them to verify the truthfulness or falsehood of your claims. Therefore, they can only place trust in a piece of paper document from your previous organization, not in you.

However, one important question arises: if you have taken on multiple roles such as speaker, trainer, mentor, sales, marketing, operations, associate editor, etc., especially within an organization of your own friends, why is the company hesitant to provide you with an experience letter?

I hope this clarifies the situation. Let me know if you need further explanation.

Best regards

First thing is that you can use the bank statements for your salary proof, and consequently, though this could be tough, as proof of your service at this company. You can take a stand that it's a startup and there are no proper records. By the way, do you have internal correspondence that could show you working here?

Coming to the skills you gathered here, I am sure you did, having seen first-hand such situations. All of them would stand you in good stead as you move forward from here. But what I meant by 'What's your technical skill profile?' is about your core skill(s). The rest you gathered here are additional skills, for now at least. This would be important for you in your job hunt. You have to focus/project a primary skillset followed by other skills. You can't say I can do this, this & that; the perception you would be giving is 'lack of focus'. Hope you get the point.

When you begin your search for new jobs, I am not sure if you should give a detailed account in your interviews, since that could lead to situations that may be out of your control. But that doesn't mean you need to bluff/lie; you shouldn't. Handle it tactfully. Companies don't usually take lightly a candidate who gives negative inputs about the current employer, even though that might be true.

Regarding your statement about why the company is feeling shy of issuing you the experience letter, please note that there are dime-a-dozen companies who don't hesitate to take advantage of such situations in this country. If you go through some of the past threads in this very forum, we find companies just refusing, on one pretext or the other, to give the relieving documents, despite the employee completing the notice period.

At the end of the day, even though the company is an entity that ought not to have any human frailties but go as per paper trail, it's after all 'human beings' who have to issue such documents, and that's when idiosyncrasies, egos, hangups, etc., come into the picture leading to such situations.

I have known a recent situation where one old candidate of ours, and someone with ~20 years of experience (now more of a friend), got a shock of his life when his technical inventions were patented by the R&D Head and the company without this guy even knowing about it. He later got to know about it from a third party, and that's when he quit after an ugly spat.

Such companies and people keep popping up everywhere in this world, and frankly, I don't think we can blame the companies; after all, the leopard can't and doesn't change its spots. The irony is that we get to notice the spots only when such situations come to pass, even though, I am sure, indications and alerts would have come much earlier.

At the end of the day, the individual needs to be more vigilant.

Regards,
TS

Hi Mr. Dhingra! Thanks for your briefing. I never submitted my CV to the company as I started working with friends. There is no official documentation proving that I am an official part of the company, assuming any role in the last 3 years. Even if I ask for an experience certificate, I might receive one stating I worked there, but it could be obtained by anyone for some money, as it cannot confirm any talent absorption at any time in the past. Therefore, I am unsure if the letter would serve any purpose. Moreover, I have not just worked as an employee there to receive an experience certificate after 3 years of struggling to build the company.

Hello Mohan,

Regarding your statement, "Moreover, I have not just worked like an employee there to get an experience certificate at the end of 3 years of struggle to build the company," please avoid mixing up issues. What you are currently seeking is not recognition based on whether you worked there as an employee or as a Founder.

This is a moment where you need to 'think through the head' rather than 'thinking through the heart.'

Regards,
TS

First thing is that you can use the bank statements for your salary proof and consequently (though this could be tough) as proof of your service at this company. You can take a stand that it's a startup and there are no proper records.

Yes, I can get the bank statement, but entrepreneurship didn’t yield the income that I had in Oracle. So, whatever was paid was more of reimbursing some expenses to sustain without asking money from parents than to quote it as a salary. So, won’t it have a negative impact when I go to future employers? In Oracle, I had close to 7 LPA as CTC. I would like to quote that.

BTW, do you have internal correspondence that could show you working here?

There are some documents I have with the letterheads of the company and my name being mentioned under different roles. There are certificates and appreciation letters that we handed out to our students in training programs that have my signature. Do you approve these as internal correspondence or is anything else required?

Skills and Experience

Coming to the skills you gathered here, I am sure you did, having seen first-hand such situations. All of them would stand you in good stead as you move forward from here. But what I meant by 'What's your technical skill profile?' is about your core skill(s). The rest you gathered here are additional skills for now at least. This would be important for you in your job hunt. You have to focus/project a primary skillset followed by other skills. You can't say I can do this, this & that; the perception you would be giving is 'lack of focus'. Hope you get the point.

My primary job in entrepreneurship was training. But for IU clubs wing, I did complete end-to-end operations of market outreach, sales and marketing, closing of sales, taking up sessions, conducting competitions and conventions, client relationship management (keeping in consistent contact with students and parents for discussions and feedback). The same was the case for the i3 training program that I did for 6 months in Hyderabad. Along with this, my primary job was also to edit all the articles before they went for publishing for our e-magazine. Also, as the lead speaker of the company, I was responsible for taking up speeches when invited from different organizations.

My technical skill profile in Oracle was Business Intelligence/Data Warehousing and none in entrepreneurship (Inspiration Unlimited). So, is there something that I am missing here?

Job Search Strategy

When you begin your search for new jobs, I am not sure if you should give a detailed account in your interviews since that could lead to situations that may be out of your control. But that doesn’t mean you need to bluff or lie; you shouldn’t. Handle it tactfully. Companies don’t usually take lightly a candidate who gives negative inputs about the current employer, even though that might be true.

So, I just have to say that things didn’t work out well between us and I moved out.

Hello Mohan,

First thing is that you can use the Bank Statements for your Salary Proof... and consequently [though this COULD be tough] as proof of your service at this Company. You can take a stand that it's a startup and there are no proper records. BTW, do you have internal correspondence that COULD show you working here? Coming to the skills you gathered here, I am sure you did... having seen first-hand such situations. All of them would stand you in good stead as you move forward from here. But what I meant by 'What's your technical skill profile?' is about your core skill(s). The rest you gathered here are additional skills... for now at least. This would be important for you in your job hunt... you have to focus/project a Primary Skillset followed by other skills. You can't say I can do this, this & that... the perception you would be giving is 'lack of focus'. Hope you get the point. When you begin your search for new jobs, I am not sure IF you should give a detailed account in your interviews... since that COULD lead to situations that MAY be out of your control. But that DOESN'T mean you need to bluff/lie... you SHOULDN'T. Handle it tactfully. Companies don't usually take lightly a candidate who gives negative inputs about the current employer... even though that might be true.

@ PS DHINGRA--- W.r.t. your statement "why the company is feeling shy of issuing you the experience letter?", please note that there are dime-a-dozen Companies who don't hesitate to take advantage of such situations in this Country. If you go through some of the past threads in this very Forum, we find Companies just refusing... on one pretext or the other... to give the Relieving Docs... despite the employee completing the NP. At the end of the day, even though the Company is an entity that ought NOT to have any human frailties but go as per paper trail, it's after all 'human beings' who have to issue such Docs... and that's when idiosyncrasies, egos, hangups, etc come into the picture leading to such situations. I have known a recent situation where one old candidate of ours... and someone with ~20 yrs exp... [now more of a friend] got a shock of his life when his technical inventions were patented by the R&D Head & the Company without this guy even knowing about it. He later got to know about it from a III party & that's when he quit after an ugly spat. Such Companies & people keep popping-up everywhere in this world & frankly, I don't think we can blame the Companies... after all the leopard can't & doesn't change its spots. The irony is that we get to notice the spots ONLY when such situations come to pass... even though, I am sure, indications & alerts would have come much earlier. At the end of the day, the individual needs to be more vigilant.

Regards, TS

Dear TS,

I wonder if your assumption-based reply on behalf of the author, without seeing the author's response to my query, was justified. The author claims that he worked for his friend's company, where he should not have faced any difficulty in getting an experience certificate.

Mr. Mohan,

Your reply and assumption on behalf of the management of your friend are quite surprising! Any experience letter is not CV-based; rather, it depends upon the performance of the employee and the period of work. However, I am now fully convinced that your query was of a hypothetical and academic nature, not for the purpose of seeking a solution to any problem you would have faced.

Hello PS Dhingra, vis-a-vis your remark "The author claims that he worked for his friend's company, where he should not have faced any difficulty in getting an experience certificate," you are right when the assumption is that the friendship still exists. You seem to be fortunate in your career and life not to have seen friendships break off with a rupture or spat. Hence, I can understand your viewpoint and conclusion on this issue.

Unfortunately, Mohan's experience of this particular friendship, and I can say that such relationships do exist on this planet, has been neither fair nor good. Going by the little details about the relationship that he mentioned and my own observations along my life path, I can venture to say that Mohan has been 'solidly used' by them. That Mohan has allowed it to happen for 3 years is his learning process; he always had a choice, even initially, to refuse.

So expecting any document when the relationship has soured, as he has explained in the first posting, isn't realistic. It would just be a bonus if the document comes.

In a way, you have a point when you say, "Any experience letter is not CV-based, rather depends upon the performance of the employee and the period of work."

But what if someone says, "I just don't want to give you any doc...do what you want," or something with a similar meaning?

If you think such things don't happen, suggest please correct yourself and thank your stars that you haven't had the misfortune to have come across such situations in life—and I am not being sarcastic here—just plain realistic, since I know such situations can happen and have happened to many people, one of which I already mentioned earlier in this thread.

However, I still wouldn't generalize this scenario. Just because it happened to a few people doesn't mean we need to look at every similar situation through the same prism. It's for this very reason that I kept asking queries to doubly ensure all of us are addressing a real situation rather than, as you rightly pointed out, 'hypothetical and academic' situations. If no clarifications were forthcoming, I would have just switched off myself from participating in this thread.

How other members respond/react would be their prerogative and choice, I guess.

Regards, TS

Response to PS Dhingra

Vis-a-vis your remark, "The author claims that he worked for his friend's company, where he should not have faced any difficulty in getting an experience certificate," you are right when the assumption is that the friendship still exists. You seem to be fortunate in your career/life not to have witnessed friendships breaking off with a rupture or spat. Hence, I can understand your viewpoint and conclusion on this issue.

Unfortunately, Mohan's experience of this particular friendship, and I can say that such relationships do exist on this planet, has been neither fair nor good. Going by the little details about the relationship that he mentioned and my own observations along my life path, I can venture to say that Mohan has been 'solidly used' by them. That Mohan has allowed it to happen for 3 years is his learning process; he always had a choice even initially to refuse.

So, expecting any document when the relationship has soured, which he has explained in the First Posting, isn't realistic. It would just be a bonus if the document comes. In a way, you have a point when you say, "Any experience letter is not CV-based but rather depends upon the performance of the employee and the period of work."

But what if someone says, "I just don't want to give you any document...do what you want," or something with a similar meaning? If you think such things don't happen, please correct yourself and thank your stars that you haven't had the misfortune to have come across such situations in life—and I am not being sarcastic here—just plain realistic, as I know such situations can happen and have happened to many people, one of which I already mentioned earlier in this thread.

However, I still wouldn't generalize this scenario [just because it happened to a few people doesn't mean we need to look at every similar situation through the same prism]—it's for this very reason that I kept asking queries to doubly ensure all of us are addressing a real situation rather than, as you rightly pointed out, 'hypothetical and academic' situations. If no clarifications were forthcoming, I would have just switched off myself from participating in this thread. How other members respond/react would be their prerogative/choice, I guess.

Regards, TS

Thank you so much @Tajsateeth! I don't know if I could explain in such detail as you've done here. Thank you so much for your time and patience. However, one statement of yours has fully summarized my issue here - "So expecting any document when the relationship has soured, which he has explained in the First Posting, isn't realistic. It would just be a bonus if the document comes."

I am sorry if any of my answers felt like an unnecessary use of Mr. Dhingra's time. I regret the inconvenience caused unintentionally. Let me try to make this discussion more objective-oriented than a series of explanations.

Questions for Discussion

Q1. After the successful completion of the training program I was authorized to conduct in Hyderabad and the bitter conversation with the Director there, there has been no correspondence from the company for any further work. It all stopped at the end of July. No expenses were reimbursed, and no salary was issued from June onwards. When I repeatedly asked for reimbursement, I was only told that it would be done but it never happened. So, I stopped the literal begging for asking my own money back. What should be my next step?

Q2. As per formal records, there is no document to show that Mohan BN was hired or joined the founding team of the company. So, does it make sense to ask for an experience letter when there is no document to support the inception of my role in the company at any point in the past?

Q3. The Director didn't bother to connect with me to ask about my job/career after July, and when one of my relatives messaged about such unfair treatment, he just messaged me to meet him in the first week of November, which was 2 weeks away. Should I ask for an experience letter if that meeting happens?

Q4. If I don't get any kind of formal proof that I have been working in the field for the last 3 years of struggle, what precautions should I take or what things should I be ready with while applying for new jobs henceforth?

I hope I have made the discussion more point-based and clearer for solution providers.

Advice on Handling Employment Documentation Issues

To cut a long story short, let me reiterate what I suggested to another member today for his problem through PMs—up to you to call it coincidence or providence:

"I always suggest this in CiteHR: 'Aim and work towards the Best-case Scenario AND prepare mentally for the Worst-case Scenario. That way, there won't be many surprises in life. Most often, problems come not due to the problems themselves, but due to the inability of the individual to accept the factual situation and cope with it.' This, I think, right away applies to you too.

And to answer your Q3—by all means, go and meet the Director in the first week of November AND ask him for the documents. You don't need to beg nor ask it as a favor. Asking him for the documents as the fair way to close the issue formally could be a better way. However, I do think he will come up with his side of the story on why the relationship soured—which I do believe would have at least some validity—but don't get into that trap of digging into the past.

All the Best.

Rgds,
TS

Just thought this could be useful to you and quite relevant for you, Mohan.

The Viral Fever's cofounders battle it out in court against each other - The Economic Times

The story is much the same in quite a few startups.

Regards,
TS

Hello Satish,

As per your guidance, I emailed the Managing Director of my previous company for the experience letter. After following up for 2 weeks, I finally received the letter of experience. Thanks for your help in this process!

Like the saying goes, "All's well that ends well," Mohan. Count yourself lucky that you got the Doc in 2 weeks... many end up doing rounds for months. Also, hope you have learned from this incident. If yes, then it's no more a 'mistake' but forms a part of your overall 'experience.' All the best in your career.

Rgds, TS