Is HR Losing Its Importance? Let's Discuss How We Can Rebuild Its Image Together

akumarknp
The Role of HR Professionals

I have observed that it is the responsibility of all professionals to develop a platform for new professionals and emphasize the importance of their profession. However, over the last 5 years, I have noticed a decline in the importance of HR in organizations, especially in the NCR region.

Please think positively and let's discuss what can be done.

Regards,
Dr. Ashish Kumar
shah01ankita
It is actually a sad fact that the HR department is always sidelined compared to other departments in most companies. I do not know the actual reasons for this, but from some discussions that I had whilst in college and during my internship with one of the reputed firms, I happened to trace down a few reasons:

1. HR is observed as a cost center as we are to devise some or other motivational things which may have some expense.

2. Training, recruiting, engaging, payroll, etc., are HR's responsibility and these do have their own cost.

3. The efforts of HR are a soft skill and can't be measured in a factual manner as the finance or marketing department does. They can claim an increase of 10% or 50% in the turnover or sales or profits. How are we to claim we engaged 50% more employees compared to previous year(s)?

Changing the Management's View of HR

In order to change the management's view of HR, it is important to start measuring our work as much as possible. We too will have to speak numbers. We need to be sure that we are doing something to give to the company. We first, ourselves should be confident that yes, our efforts are contributing to the company's vision and mission.

As a result of this, my summer internship project was to study HR Metrics and try to develop it. I wrote about this and got my article on HR Metrics published in IIM-Shillong's magazine. (Here's the link for your kind perusal):

http://iimsushr.files.wordpress.com/...ruary-2012.pdf

Scroll down to pg 16 (of PDF which coincides with pg 13 of the booklet).

Apart from this, I would love to hear from seniors about their ideas on making the HR department as respectable as others.
epdcl111
With 12 years of managerial experience in NCR, I can state that due to various pressures, it is rapidly becoming difficult to walk the talk. Once management is clear on HR as a facilitator, things would be brighter.

Regards,
Mahesh.
Ronald-deSaran
The Value of HR in Organizations

The problem is that many managements do not know the true value of an HR function. They forget that it is all about resources, just like other resources used to build a product or service; employees are the Human Resources and are just as important as other resources.

HR must be able to make management understand the importance of human resources.

I have seen numerous posts about companies worried about people leaving and joining the competition. Why are they concerned about this?

They do not realize that this is just like capital flight. When capital is withdrawn from the stock market or from banks, the economy suffers. Similarly, when employees leave, the company suffers.

The trouble is that managements set up an HR function but do not really know why they have done this and use it as the recruitment wing and for policing employees, which then turns it into a pure cost center. No, it is not; it is an investment in an important resource called EMPLOYEES.

Many managements think training is just an expense; they are wrong. Once again, it is an investment that will bear fruit down the line.

I have noticed that most SMEs and family-owned businesses do not give the importance due to HR since they do not know the exact role of HR.

Suggestions for HR in SMEs and Family-Owned Businesses

My suggestion is that the HR function in such organizations should write white papers on how a good HR group functions and how good HR policies are really investments and not just costs.

This is, of course, easier said than done, but the HR group has to stand up and demand its worth as a function that helps build an organization.

I trust all those in this function will wake up and start to showcase the importance of HR more as an investment in Human Resources than just a group that does what it is told and is meant only for policing the employees. They have to do all the bad work.

They are the BAD COP whereas management is the GOOD COP.

Best regards and keep your heads high; you are very valuable to those who know your value.
bijay_majumdar
HR departments in organizations, as mentioned above, are crucial because human resources are a vital and essential part of an organization. No organization will ever exist without this. The management and the business owners are also well aware of this fact. Then how come we, HR people, still say the importance of HR has gone down over the years in the organization?

My view about this is that HR people often fail to bridge the gap between management and employees on business understanding, purpose, and perspectives, which is the core function of an HR department. Unfortunately, in most cases, I have observed that HR is found to be more inclined towards the interests of management while lacking a grip over the employees, thus resulting in employee engagement/retention problems. In turn, management suffers on the production/service front, and the blame comes to the HR department.

However, the management of any organization needs HR support in a manner that will support business growth along with its employees in a cost-effective way. In my view, HR people should ensure more focus on trust and faith-building between management and employees, apart from looking into the work profiles of employees/HR administration, rather than worrying about management not giving importance to HR, etc.

Let's have the positive side of people with us, and I'm sure every HR professional will be a successful and equally important part of the organization.

Thanks,

Bijay
shah01ankita
A very nice post. I agree with your viewpoints, but not completely as I believe there is always another side to the coin. Often, we fail to flip it to see the other side.

The Importance of HR Departments

HR Departments in organizations are crucial because human resources are a vital part of any organization. No organization can exist without them. Both management and business owners are well aware of this fact. So, how is it that we in HR still perceive a decline in the importance of HR within organizations?

It's not the HR professionals who feel that the value of HR has diminished, but rather the way management treats HR as a whole that leads us to perceive this decline.

- Companies rarely consider HR perspectives in forming business strategies.
- We have CEOs, CFOs, COOs... have you heard of a CHRO? Very few have, and it is often overlooked.
- Have you ever encountered a situation where the Marketing head gets a higher budget for performance incentives, but when the HR head requests funds for training to improve productivity, it's seen as a cost rather than an investment?
- Many companies are less stringent in selecting HR personnel compared to marketing, finance, and operations roles.
- Do our management teams not expect HR to deliver quantifiable results like our counterparts in other departments?
- Have we not faced questions like, "What improvements have your training sessions or employee engagement plans brought?" Sometimes, it feels like these efforts are not recognized and valued.
- Is it easy to equate human efforts with the capital traded in the market?

In my opinion, HR often fails to bridge the gap between management and employees in terms of business understanding and perspectives, a core function of the HR department. Unfortunately, in many cases, HR tends to lean more towards management interests, neglecting employee engagement and resulting in retention issues, which ultimately affect production or service quality and shift the blame to the HR department.

Management in any organization requires HR support that fosters business growth while supporting employees in a cost-effective manner. HR professionals should focus on building trust between management and employees rather than lamenting the lack of importance given to HR.

Let's embrace the positive aspects of people, and I believe every HR professional can be a successful and essential part of the organization.

Thanks,
Bijay

To reinforce my earlier point, I'd like to share an example. As the sole HR personnel in my current role, I often find myself walking a fine line between management and staff. Despite this challenge, I have developed policies that remain neutral, benefiting both parties and promoting mutual growth.

Navigating Management Challenges

What should one do when management appreciates and acknowledges efforts but fails to implement ideas? How should HR navigate situations where proposals are well-received but not put into action?

Although my staff acknowledges my efforts, dissatisfaction lingers. The uncertainty lies in our inability to guarantee specific outcomes, not due to lack of confidence in our plans, but rather:

1) Uncertainty about staff reactions
2) Time needed for individuals to become productive post-training
3) Management's patience levels
4) Market trends that could impact the situation

One reason HR struggles to quantify results is the unpredictability inherent in human interactions. While accountants can be certain that 2+2 equals 4, in HR, it's unclear whether 2+2 in training will result in fourfold skill improvement.

I hope this helps clarify the challenges HR professionals face in organizations.
VMS
The situation you have described is true not only for NCR but for most other places as well. However, it's only the HR professionals who are to be blamed. Most of the time, they don't have any knowledge of the business. They believe that saying goody-goody things (nice-sounding words and management jargon from their HR books) will serve the purpose. But people want to see results, and it is here that HR fails miserably.

Further, the HR person is often the most insecure individual in the organization. The first thing that any finance or accounts person does is to get a number of consultants for various jobs. But HR professionals would not do that. They feel that if they get consultants, management would question them, "What are you here for?" They go about trying to do everything themselves and fail miserably. That's why they are only seen as cost centers, although finance is more of a cost center than HR.
shah01ankita
Sharing Responsibility in HR

I, as an HR professional, would like to share the blame with every other person higher up in the organization.

The Challenge of Quantifying Human Performance

Regarding speaking numbers, I have explained very clearly why HR may not focus solely on numbers. Dealing with humans, who are unpredictable beings, makes it challenging to quantify their performance. For instance, today an employee may give their best effort, but tomorrow, due to unforeseen circumstances like illness, their performance may drop. Unlike machines that can be predictable, humans are complex beings created by a higher power, making their behaviors less certain.

Management's Role in HR Strategy Implementation

Furthermore, even when HR presents well-thought-out strategies, their effectiveness depends on how receptive the management is to these ideas. Personally, I have proposed policies aimed at fostering growth and healthy competition within the company, only to face resistance during implementation. Despite management's initial appreciation, they deemed the ideas too idealistic or premature for execution, citing concerns that were not explicitly shared with me.

Observations on Appraisal and Departmental Importance

On a different note, my observations on the appraisal process in our organization reveal potential favoritism towards certain departments, which may impact overall morale and fairness. There seems to be a prevailing hierarchy in management's perception of departmental importance: Marketing ranks first for revenue generation, followed by Finance for financial management, Operations for sales enablement, and finally, HR.

It is crucial to acknowledge the equal significance of all departments, as any imbalance or neglect can disrupt the overall functioning of the organization. I encourage you to assess the dynamics within your own firm to validate these observations.

Thank you.
neeraj_ardent
Very true. This situation is everywhere, not only in NCR. Management does believe HR is a cost center. But we have to try from our side to make them believe that HR is not a cost center; rather, it's an investment for furthering the growth of the organization. An HR recruiter can show the numbers of employees hired. HR is a bridge between the employer and the employee. It's a backbone without which the organization can't stand for long. We have to manage both the organization and the employees. We don't have as much liberty as other departments do, but we have capabilities that no other department possesses. Every department has its own importance, and that is what management has to understand.

The Role of HR in Organizational Growth

HR plays a crucial role in organizational and employee growth. We have to maintain a good retention rate, which is one of our key objectives.

Regards
bijay_majumdar
"Have you ever imagined a situation about an HR leader with such a repute that if he leaves an organization, then all other followers (employees) also walk out and follow him without a second thought?"

HR people in the industry are there for people's management. Managing people is not a simple thing; they are not machines, and their performance cannot be set and predicted. That is how today in one of our training sessions we were trying to discuss - How services can be measured or how the service performance can be evaluated? I am of the opinion that HR people are more like the service providers to an organization, and hence they find it difficult to evaluate the services of each of its employees and themselves as well. Accordingly, in most cases, HR fails in convincing the management on these aspects.

Every management or business owner expects and feels happy when they see that employees are working enthusiastically and contributing 100%. HR is expected to bring about and accomplish this expectation of management through his skills - I call this skill - "winning people and giving people their share." Here I strongly feel that for "winning" and "giving," both words are correlated to or attributed towards management by an HR person, and HR expects that management should look out and contribute to winning the people as well as giving their share. No doubt Management will always be ready to give the best share to employees, but management has kept the HR person to win the people on his behalf, and it is the point where many of HR people fail to understand their role and correlate it with the management. This is the only point where the conflict of management and HR begins, and hence the question of faith, loyalty, dedication, contribution, retention, etc., arises. I may be missing certain realities on the ground, but my experience says an HR person is the people leader in an organization, and he is the one who can bring about major changes in the organization by winning the people and thus convince every management that they are Human Resource managers and equally important, rather more important than any other vertical in the industry.

These are my views, and members, please forgive me if I am wrong.

Thanks,

Bijay
shah01ankita
Thanks for an elaborated post. 

HR Leadership and Influence

"Have you ever imagined a situation about an HR leader with such a repute that if he leaves an organization, then all other followers (employees) also walk out and follow him without a second thought?"

To be a little honest, I've never heard or experienced this situation, but it's a good point to think over.

Challenges in HR Metrics

HR people in the industry are there for people's management. Managing people is not a simple thing; they are not machines, and their performance cannot be set and predicted.

This was exactly the same point I am trying to convey. Measuring HR's efforts and putting them in numbers is a little difficult task for this reason. However, at the same time, I do not say it's impossible; otherwise, I would not have worked on the project of HR Metrics.

Evaluating HR Services

That is how today in one of our training sessions we were trying to discuss - How services can be measured or how the service's performance can be evaluated? I'm of the opinion that HR people are more like the service providers to an organization and hence they find it difficult to evaluate the services of each of its employees and themselves as well. Accordingly, in most cases, HR fails in convincing the management on these aspects.

Agreed to the point - HR is like a service industry but again by citing an example would like to put forth my point.

Say, for example, we took a cab service. The driver came on time to pick us up, he was calm and serene all through the way, he managed the temperature of the cab well, and the cab was clean. The speed was good, and he managed well compared to the Indian road condition. Though we reached a bit late as per the destined time, we know it was only because of the traffic we faced and he too could not help us in that matter.

Now about identifying and numbering the services, it is like rating each of the above-mentioned things on a scale of 1 to 10 (just for example).

And another thing is, the temperature must have been ideal for you but it was too cold for someone accompanying you, and hence again the numbering would vary.

All I wanted to say was there can't be just one yardstick. Different people will judge the service provided in different ways. Let's take a simple example. If the company needs a very niche technical profile which took about 60 days to close, the technical person might know that it would ideally have taken so long or still longer, but the top management will feel 60 days to fill one position is a bad job.

I hope I've not overstepped, just wanted to put forth the idea that we need to start measuring our efforts using a different scale, one that will help us to convince management how HR's efforts help the overall business.

Regards,
bijay_majumdar
I request you to read the post carefully and try to look into the inner meaning of the post. It's not about measuring or quantifying something; it calls for more humane efforts that will be required to win the people. Once you win the people, it will require that they be molded through training and nurturing for the requisite purpose. Then make them follow what you want, keep guiding and encouraging them by being with them. Once you are satisfied and assured of your own people and their level of dedication & integration, they will do anything for you.

Organizations and management want this to happen, and in many places, this happens with due efforts and contributions from management as well.

A Lesson from the Battlefield

Just think of one more situation: "In war, soldiers fight and sacrifice their lives without a hitch." No HR is available in the field. It is their leaders that inculcate the feeling of ownership, responsibility, and pride in soldiers towards the nation. Having said this, I think that service cannot be quantified, but on the other hand, I'm afraid measuring services will make employees more focused on completing the target than having a sense of ownership and pride. (Loss of Quality and fruitless output). I'm talking about HR who can create people/employees who are not number-driven but driven by inner force, energy, and emotions of ownership, sense of responsibility, pride, and integrity towards the organization.

The Role of HR in Organizational Success

To sum up, it should be our immense effort to be a part of people together, including the management, in the achievement of organizational goals, where HR must command the reins of people towards making an organization a brand. Thus, HR will certainly be acknowledged as one of the prime and vital verticals.

Thanks,

Bijay
shah01ankita
Understanding the Importance of Engaging Staff

I indeed understood the point you made about keeping the staff engaged and motivated to take that one extra step to reach the miles. Many HR professionals have been doing so for a considerable period of time. But since we are opting for change, I suggest trying to map the work.

Again, by that, I do not mean to say that we need to put everything into numbers. However, this will also help us understand where the problem lies.

Building Rapport and Managing Change

As I stated in my personal example, I have developed a good rapport with my staff; they know what to do, and fortunately, I have never had to face the challenges of change management. But convincing the management that this is needed so they can focus better takes more effort than we might think. In the end, they appreciate your idea but do not implement it, maybe because we never say:

"If you can give us a budget of, say, X Rs., I will give you 50% more engaged employees who will work with more efficiency and dedication, leading to a rise of 30% in your profits."

Honestly, none of the HR professionals will be able to claim this—not because we are weak in arithmetic, but because we deal with humans, as you already said.

Proposing Solutions

It's like we all know the little secret to interviews: "Speak what they wish to hear" is what I propose to do. If the management is used to seeing numbers and doing numerical analysis, we should try to map something in a similar fashion. Of course, there can be many other better ways. This was just one proposal put forth. No offense. 
tsk.raman
Ankita's point is right about the sad fact that the HR department is often sidelined compared to other departments in most companies. I will focus on just one reason for this discussion, as there could be many contributing factors.

I have experienced someone telling me that HR is viewed as a cost center, and we have to allocate a portion of our profits to maintain essential support services like HR and Administration. The gentleman who shared this perspective was a PhD from the Wharton School of Business, a specialist in Finance, and a Finance professor at the prestigious IIM (C). He was the MD of the company I was associated with. He was a fine gentleman, so I argued, and when I got an opportunity, I asked my boss what he thought about this.

I'll narrate a case to make my point. It dates back to 1997, when activities worldwide were centered around Y2K. Everyone was anxious, but some players were busy creating tools to handle this issue. They conducted trials after sufficient R&D; however, they lacked a real-time environment to test their product. While they engaged in POC (Proof of Concept) activities, they needed programmers with good COBOL coding skills and mainframe experience. Our principals made this request to us. I seized this opportunity and aligned about 14 experienced mainframe professionals. After initial interviews, they decided to engage all of them, offers were made for assignments in the US, and visa paperwork commenced. I raised an invoice billing them for our professional charges for providing such resources, demanding a 10% of CTC on the offer made. After some discussion, it was agreed that they would pay us in 12 equal installments, securing their interests in case someone left after reaching the US. Thankfully, all of them stayed longer than a year, with some becoming permanent residents. At this point, I asked our MD if HR people aren't earners too. He acknowledged it, and the status we enjoyed as HR professionals was exceptionally good. I was treated on par with other delivery teams, even though HR is not a revenue-generating department.

In well-known companies that work on high-volume, high-value delivery, the role and status of HR are exceptionally good.

The Role of HR in Companies

I'd like to address the next point Ankita brought up: "Have we not seen that many companies just bring aboard any person in the seat of HR, whereas they check for proper experience and qualifications for marketing, finance, and operations?" This is absolutely valid. While HR is still in its nascent stage compared to other professions, it is gaining ground quickly. It's true that those who entered the profession early were often from other functions, good communicators, presenters, or socially well-placed individuals with little or no knowledge of the subject. They would occupy the seat and carry out orders from hire to retire, at the whims of the boss and higher-ups.

Thanks to the emergence of IT, more things began to change. However, sectors like manufacturing still practice Industrial Relations and Personnel Management as statutory requirements. They have a Manager IR (handling Labor, Discipline, Productivity, Trade Union Negotiation, etc.), a Manager - Personnel (taking care of Supervisory level people), and a Welfare Officer for general welfare and recreation. People in these roles wield great command and respect. When people with this background transition to IT, they find their management style doesn't work, and they must adapt. In India, we often fall into a slot that is neither here nor there, affecting treatment. Some retired armed forces personnel have also tried entering the private sector, especially IT, but few have succeeded.

The Future of HR

To sum it up, I think the days ahead will see changes, provided we as HR professionals can show that we add value even if we are not revenue generators. Some thoughts on this would be:

Be the Change Agent

You have a rupee, and I have one. We exchange it, and we still have a rupee each. This is a transaction. I have an idea, and you have an idea. We exchange, and now we both have two ideas each. This is transformation.

In our home, we enjoy great relationships, constantly communicate, care for each other, and discuss various topics, including family, society, and politics. While most of this relationship is transformational, some transactional issues exist. This doesn't dilute the relationship. We invest heavily in issueless moments, creating a transformational relationship where we all grow.

Work relationships are merely transactional, but there is a huge opportunity to make them transformational. By volunteering to be the initiator, guide, advisor, and coach, you can transform others at work. Let everything that passes by you gain value. Add value to every moment and relationship. Be an 'Alchemist.' In helping others become better, you become better. Let everything improve in your presence. Leadership is about evolving transactional opportunities into transformational ones. Be the change agent. Keep going and help people grow. That's the role to grow into as HR professionals because the value you add, though intangible, is absolutely valuable.

I wish to acknowledge the thoughts and ideas shared by others regarding this query.

Regards
tsk.raman
To the HR fraternity, we can cry until the cows come home, but things will not change easily. We have to keep persevering, doing good work after good work, and earning our status as professionals; no one will hand it to us. Our forefathers' and great leadership enabled India to earn independence; it wasn't granted.

Hope this puts things in the right perspective.

Best wishes.
shah01ankita
Hello Sir,

Thank you, sir, for adding to my points with your extensive experience... I think now they do make sense...

Exactly, we need to be a change agent... I always believe that HR should be just like a catalyst - increasing efficiency without disturbing the whole process... And unless the HR fraternities start believing that they're contributing, they'd never be able to convince others of the same... I just happened to see a picture which I would like to share - talk about the different ways different groups of people will perceive the functions of HR...

Regards
1 Attachment(s) [Login To View]

akumarknp
Building a Positive Image for HR

Mainly, we need to focus on what we should do for image building within the organization and in the external environment. I raise this issue because our image is decreasing day by day. I would request you to share what steps should be taken.

Most companies have CEOs or Plant Heads with a production or engineering background, and they often feel HR is not contributing much and is simply enjoying all the company facilities. One of my bosses, an ex-VP from one of the best manufacturing MNCs, clearly told me, "I never like HR people. They are only involved in politics within the company." I tried discussing this with him but could not change his perception of HR.

Somehow, we are also responsible. Please share your experience and actions taken.
akumarknp
You are absolutely right, Ankita Ji. I would also like to request the senior HR team to share their views and ideas.
tsk.raman
With the highest regards to the profession and professionalism, I'd like to make this submission. I'm afraid I disagree with the notion of adding "value" to the organization as this doesn't necessarily require one to be a qualified HR professional. Even an educated person handling administration can do this. In fact, in the past, some of these functions were performed by confidential secretaries.

Difference Between HR Roles

I would like to draw attention to the fact that there is a lot of difference between HR Administration, Operational HR, an HR Generalist, and an HR Strategist. I share the following links to help gain a better understanding of this aspect and to put things in clear perspective, not only for now but also to remove illusions about what HR is and isn't.

April 27, 2008 CITEHR Link: Core Roles of HR
https://www.citehr.com/249685-what-d...rnlist-hr.html

April 27, 2008 CITEHR Link: Difference between HR and Corporate HR
https://www.citehr.com/23069-differe...porate-hr.html

HR is about people, which is the core of an organization. The choice for HR between strategic or administrative functions is not an either/or decision. Different strategies will require different skills in personnel, and this is where HR needs to be focused.
http://www.maverickec.com/index_file...y%20epulse.pdf

Operational vs. Strategic HR Focus
By Tony Deblauwe
Operational vs Strategic HR Focus - Work Babble

Steve Denning, author of "The Leader's Guide to Radical Management: Reinventing the Workplace for the 21st Century," outlined the disconnect between HR focus and executive and strategic business imperatives.
How Strategic HR Wins The Keys To The C-Suite - Forbes

I trust this will keep the discussion engaged further.

Best wishes.
bhaviaqau
Dear Members,

Image Building of the HR Department

The topic is very sensitive, and here is what we are sharing regarding the current scenario. Looking further, what can we do to create an organizational culture where management and employees truly perceive the HR image as vital?

Not only in the NCR or any part of India, the culture of an organization is crucial as it directly impacts the HR department's image. There are companies where HR is considered a Strategic Partner rather than just a service provider. This transformation occurs because they have employee-friendly policies designed for people, not against them. This shift is only achievable with a strategic HR approach, as opposed to just HR. Ultimately, the employees shape the image through the services delivered by HR (largely guided by management).

When employees experience transparency in processes and recognize their value in the organization, they perceive effective management and authentic HR. However, in current times, when management views employee training as a cost rather than an investment, it can negatively impact the organization's culture image, not just the HR image.

It's a top-down approach when it comes to HR, but it should be bottom-up because, as you all mentioned, we are dealing with human beings, not machines. To change the HR image, equal importance, treatment, and autonomy in work should be extended to all departments in an organization.

Though there is a long way to go in changing this image, we as HR professionals need to contemplate and take the lead in steering towards the right direction. If HR remains silent, it will continue to be treated the same as it has been. Now is the era of SHRM, not just HRM.

Thanks & Regards.
souravdash.er@gmail.com
The Importance of HR in Organizations

HR is the core of any organization because it deals with the people of different departments. The HR department plays a crucial role in making the organization competitive in the global world. It is a misconception that HR is only concerned with recruitment and selection or that it is a job for idle people. Only those with the capability to handle issues related to people are able to manage the HR department.

In an organization, different departments often have a negative view of the HR department. They may think that it only involves sitting and does not require any planning or coordination. They are accustomed to blaming the HR department for any misconduct by employees or management. For example, if an employee does not perform well after attending a training program, the Head of the department may blame the HRD for not planning or implementing the training program properly. Instead of blaming the HR department, the focus should be on finding out why some employees did not benefit from the training program. It could be due to their own behavior and attitude.

An organization should not solely emphasize one department for its growth because holistic development is possible only when all departments are developed according to the company's and employees' needs. Each department may understand its own problems better than others. By communicating these problems to the HR department and working together to find solutions, the effectiveness and fruitfulness of the solutions can be maximized. Therefore, other departments need to collaborate with the HR department to find solutions to problems, which ultimately enhances the company's image through coordination, as unity is always a strength for a company.

Regards,
Ayushmi Arya
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