Balancing Work and Personal Errands: How Does Your Company Handle It?

How much time do you give to your employees to do their personal work? Because if the employee stays in the office from 9 - 6, then who will do the personal work of paying bills, going to some offices, gas, etc.? I have lots of personal work, and once every 2-3 days, I go out during office hours for 1-2 hours. What do you think about this? I assume software and call centre employees might not get this privilege because they are hooked on PCs and phones with clients/customers. Only people in management jobs/administration jobs get this privilege. Your views, please, and your company's views on giving time to employees for doing their personal work.

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Hi Ravi,

I guess if we don't work between 9 - 6, we may not have the chance to go and do our personal work - like paying the bills (esp). So it's left to the employee to manage the time well. When an opportunity to work is given, then people must make the best out of it and also dedicate good time for the family (after work).

Also, I guess employers give some option to take extra hour permission to deal with immediate urgencies, and leave policies cater to their needs. Otherwise, it's fine.

I see this as a viable solution :-)

You probably misunderstood the term HR. Anyways, please reread my answer to your post. I only mentioned that the employer is still doing its best to meet the needs of the employees. There is nothing wrong with taking some personal time for a couple of hours off once in a while. Let's not deviate from the topic.

An employee is basically working for organizational improvement and profit; is he a machine?

No, so employees need to be given relaxation to take care of their personal exigencies as well. If such a hard and fast rule, like he should not be allowed to do his personal work, is imposed, none of the employees will show interest in the work; rather, they will get irritated.

Balaji

:-)
You probably misunderstood the term HR. Anyways, read my answer to your post again. I have only mentioned that the employer is still doing its best to cope up with these needs of the employees. There is nothing wrong in taking some personal time for a couple of hours off, once in a while. But let's not deviate from the topic.

Dear Ravi,

Doing personal work during office hours is awkward and disrupts the normal work schedule. Employees can manage their personal tasks smartly. For example:

1) Do your personal tasks during lengthy lunch breaks when nobody notices your absence.
2) Use credit or debit cards to pay bills or make purchases.
3) If your work involves outdoor visits (such as marketing or fieldwork), you can manage to do personal tasks at that time.
4) Ask your neighbour or friend if they can help you pay your kids' school fees when they are supposed to go for their kids.
5) You can ask a field executive to assist you.

Apart from that, employees are eligible for 2 short leaves in a month (1 short leave = 2 hrs). They can attend to their tasks during these short leaves. Casual leave is also an option for handling personal tasks that require more than 4 hours. I hope this information proves helpful.

Regards,
Pankaj Chandan

Pankaj, you are right, but no one has friends or neighbors all the time, and not everyone is rich enough to use a credit card. :icon2::icon2:

You are correct, Ravi, but in this case, short leaves and casual leaves are more than enough to do personal work - what do you think?

Regards,

Pankaj Chandan

Dear Pankaj,
1) Since when lunch breaks are 'lengthy' enough to household works?
2) How does plastic money/ hard cash fit in here (untill we make online payments)
3) Do you think it is practically feasible to ask the field executive and neighbours to pay the bills, fee etc. in todays urban culture?
However, the 5day work is really helping us a lot.
Also the concierge service mentioned above is commendable.
Regards,
Devashish.

Hi Ravi,

In the past, in our company, there was no concept of giving special time for people to carry out their personal work. In severe cases, we only used to permit the concerned employee to leave the company premises, that too by deducting his salary or deducting the time taken from his overtime (this is the general rule followed in Gulf countries). However, we have revised this rule and introduced the concept of short leave for everyone in the company. They can avail at least 2 short leaves of 2 hours each in the current payroll period. If it exceeds this limit, the same rule will be applied by deducting the salary or the overtime, which I believe is the right approach. This ensures that no one will exploit the rule, and they can still manage their personal work efficiently.

Thank you.

Surjeetlko and Pankaj have suggested some points that are worth consideration.

Let us look at this topic from both perspectives.

From an employee's point of view: An employee works for an employer to earn bread and butter for his family. However, he will not allow his employer to treat him like a slave, and thus may consider it his right to do domestic chores in between his 'official hours'.

From an employer's point of view: An employer hires an employee with the sole purpose of running his business. Each hour of his employees is a cost for him. He would prefer to employ a 'Runner/Peon' to take care of the personal work of his employees rather than letting his employees remain absent from their desks.

More often than not, no management is so thick-skinned that it cannot allow people to go and do their personal work.

So, to conclude, if an employee needs to do personal work, he has to manage his time in a manner so that it doesn't cost his employer.

A question to Ravi, what would you do if you happen to become an employer someday and face a similar situation? An answer to this will clear your doubts.

Hi,

The company has showrooms in different locations in India and is already registered under the Shop & Establishment Act in various states.

If a company applies for registration of its head office under the Shop & Establishment Act, all the names of employees, including employees at showrooms in different locations of different states, can be included for registration purposes.

Could you please advise if these showroom employees should be included in the head office registration or not?

Thank you,
Ashish

Dear Devashish,

Do you think that you are getting a salary for your household work? No, man, think from the employer's side. An employee has a commitment towards the job and has to fulfill it.

Nobody is supposed to do household work during office hours; one has to manage it smartly on their own. Will you please let me know why CL (Casual Leaves) and short leaves are meant for?

My dear friend, if an employee is working for 6 days a week and has the option of short leaves and casual leaves, then why are they not utilizing the same for household work?

Asking the field executive for a favor doesn't harm but is a matter of attitude problem.

On one side, you are talking about urban culture, and on the other side, you are not comfortable with plastic money or online transactions. Today, you are not supposed to stick to long queues because in the near market, you can find facilities for electricity bill payment, phone bill payment, etc. Even one phone call can solve all your problems.

But the only thing is that you people want one day off or time off whenever you require it for your personal work instead of understanding the situation and logic behind it.

Think from the employer's side, and your problem will be solved.

Regards,

Pankaj Chandan

I will just wish if someone from your company, in the future, helps you if you ever face personal household work and if your company does not allow you time, then you will remember K. Ravi, and this post. Always remember: whatever goes around, comes around, and the world is round, dear. So, beware! 8-)

Dear Pankaj,

Perhaps we should note a point that most of India's workforce is in non-metro cities/towns where people have started using ATMs but only for withdrawing money, not for credit cards and online bill payments.

Regarding the support from field executives/relatives/neighbours, they may help occasionally but not regularly on a monthly or fortnightly basis. This discussion pertains to all employees, not just individuals.

When it comes to queues, one can observe the number of working-class individuals at places like BSES or government offices.

However, as everyone has mentioned, short leaves, a five-day workweek, and concierge services help alleviate this issue to some extent.

The bottom line is that personal (household) life and professional life are complementary. Both employees and employers need to consider this perspective when devising policies to avoid conflicts.

Regards,
Devashish.

Dear Ravi,

You are correct; we need some time to complete personal tasks. As Pankaj mentioned, two short leaves and one casual leave should be sufficient for us to attend to our personal matters. Alternatively, you can seek assistance from your colleagues who frequently travel out of station for work (such as in banks, government offices, etc.).

Regards,
Raghav

This thread of Ravi's is indeed thoughtful in a way. I agree with it and it's nice to know that a male has said so. Maybe it should be this way - how to balance personal work amidst our profession. People can come up with many suggestions, but it all depends on the individual's nature of the job and circumstances. Not every month we are offered CL or short leaves.

In many families, if the man works, then the woman should handle things. If both work, it's chaos then. Not all neighbors or all of us have people working in some departments or kind enough to help us, or we do the same for them in turns. It all depends on how we manage it. There are professions where people work for 14/15 hours also. Maybe instead of giving out suggestions, we can share our real-life events on how we handle things. But this will always exist.

I feel sorry for people like Ravi who always wish to have the last laugh, instead of taking others' viewpoints in the correct perspective.

Dear Ravi and others alike, as HR professionals, we have to look at any organizational issue, small or big, from both angles and then come to a conclusion. HR necessarily has to play a role as a mediator between Management and Employees.

As for this particular case in question, I fully agree with Pankaj and those who have rationally thought it over.

The original post is really insightful. However, I feel one has to be professional as an employee but at the same time smart enough to balance and manage personal life also, may it be household work, official work, or social commitments. As we see, in the private sector where 12-14 working hours are very common. Also, the notional extension of working time i.e. travel/commuting issues especially in metros like Mumbai (specially in suburbs - Andheri East and West, Kurla, Ghatkopar, etc.) where road traffic is really the worst and bottlenecks are often.

Thus, working time of 12-14 hours + commuting time avg 3-4 hrs (to & fro) on a daily basis, so effectively 17-18 hours are spent for the JOB i.e. EMPLOYEE. However, in many companies, late marks are noted and deducted from salary (+ no pick-ups are provided). If the employer is so ruthless, then I feel personal work can be done but WITHOUT harming organizational discipline and work culture. As opposed to Govt. employees who have better salaries + employee benefits + limited hours + more paid holidays & leave + they can keep a claim on the job for 1 year (in case they leave the job).

In fact, we may use facilities like e-business (travel booking, etc.), net-banking, courier, phone/mobile, internet which reduce our running time and works effectively. I feel that instead of mental presence in the office is much required than mere physical presence. Share your views... good topic to debate!! Thanks

well well well... seems like someone is getting irritated. I addressed to you Pankaj keeping in mind your previous threads, never thought you may express yoself like thise as well. No offences to anyone, can we have a point-to-point discussion here, I guess its no yahoo or rediff chat room.
Peace
Regards,
Devashish.

Dear,

As you said 5 days working will solve all your problems to do household work but let me know one thing that if 5 days working will not be allowed by the management then what will happen. Will you not manage? 5 days working is MNC culture but most of the companies follow 6 days working and that is followed from more than 4 decades. 5 days working given to employees to attract towards them and give them highlighted benefits. It doesn't mean that it is the right of the employees now.

Attraction develops Likeness,
Likeness develops Need,
Need develops Attitude
Attitude develops habit. And habit will become right and increase conflicts.

When a HR person understands the term “Availing the benefits and giving the benefits” then he/she can able to become the strong bride between the Management and the Employees.

Don't just think you are employee to avail the benefits. Think from employer side also how they give the benefit. Compare both - have suggestions and decide what will be the most suitable for both of them.

In spite of stressing on 5 days working (that it should be) why not we people discuss how to manage it? Experienced and professional suggestions help us a lot.

Don't be personal be professional

Regards

Pankaj Chandan

Ravi, just tell me one thing: if you give 100 Rs. to a petrol pump guy and he fills petrol for only 90 Rs., then what will be your reaction? Since the company has hired our skills and knowledge, and they are paying us for that, then we should be loyal to them.

As many members here suggest short leave and casual leave, I think that is a better solution, but not excessively. Try to see things from the employer's side too.

Dear All,

To make his time flexible and work to be done, organizations are providing leave with wages. So he can go for his personal works on leave (1/2 day). If it exceeds, then he can take a full day - based on the work. If an employee needs permission for 1 or 1.5 hours, they can get the permission from their superiors with a proper explanation, and no employer/manager/superior will refuse to give the permission on the grounds of reality.

Regards,
Phani

Dear All,

I agree with Mr. Ravi. Everyone has leaves available to them. We should plan our work and utilize those leaves to attend to our personal matters. In our organization, we have designated a holiday on every third Saturday of the month for this purpose. This can be considered as one of the solutions.

Mr. Ravi, I did not understand the concept of a short leave. Is it in accordance with labor laws?

Rahaman

Dear,

You are certainly right. However, the emphasis is on how to manage our time to complete our personal work without incurring any loss to the management. Of course, one can plan his/her personal responsibilities in a way to utilize the given facilities of short leave/5 days work/concierge/pooling, etc., but both parties should be flexible enough. If the employer can permit the employee to have half a day off for personal reasons, the employee should also be ready to work extra to achieve the target.

Regards,
Devashish.

Dear Ravi,

You can make it like it is in many organizations. Twice a month, 2 hours of late coming or early going is fine for any personal need. After this, you may proceed further with marking the half-days for the late comings as suitable.

Regards,
Bhartendu

Hi friends,

I agree with the comments of Mr. Pankaj. The company entertains the employees with leave policies or other benefits. If the company entertains the employees during duty hours for their personal work, most of them will take more time than necessary. Employees should manage their time efficiently to complete their work and utilize facilities like short leave without affecting their jobs.

Regards,
Haider Khan

Dear friends,

I need a presentation (PPT file) on HR functions. Can someone share with me?

Waiting for your kind response.

Regards,
Haider Khan

Hi,

I agree with Kavitha, but one line is confusing.

I agree with it and it's nice to know that a male has said so. It seems Kavitha is too engrossed in VAFI, so is there a male/female difference?

Yikes! Oh dear, what's going on? Nah, no male/female differences. Actually, when I said, "nice to know that a male has said so," I meant that generally men don't easily admit in public that they need time for personal work, even though they regret it internally. They often claim to have loads of work, being too busy for such things, or consider them secondary. On the contrary, females tend to express their need for personal time more openly. I hope this clarifies it for you now!

One more thing to add for everybody: "Be it an employer or an employee, everybody faces the same situation." So, instead of discussing it from the perspectives of an employer, employee, HR, software, hardware, etc., let's talk about it as individuals and what we actually try to do in our practical lives. This approach might be helpful for others too.

As far as VAFI goes, we need support from as many men as possible to show society that they also care for their women. It's not that men are enemies of women in this case; even women can be each other's foes. So, regardless of gender, we need to join hands.

Please let me know if you need any further clarification or have any questions.

Hi Ravi,

We believe Ash has a valid and impeccable point that, as per working hours, we are all supposed to work 8 hours in the day. Our company provides a solution to this problem by allowing 4 late comings in one month, but we are only eligible to arrive by 11:30, and after that, we are marked as late.

Regarding these generous policies, we also appreciate that we are provided with casual leave, which allows us to attend to our personal matters on that day. However, everyone has their own perspective.

Regards,
Rach

I'll go with Pankaj; he is absolutely right. We should balance EMPLOYER AND EMPLOYEE.

Regards,
Riya

Hi Ravi,

I would say that my company's policies are very employee-friendly. As an HR professional, you can suggest these points to management. So far, we have not had any problems with these policies:

1. We used to mark latecomings till 11 am. After 11 am, it's considered a half-day.
2. For up to 3 latecomings per month, there is no salary deduction. On the 4th latecoming, there is a half-day salary deduction.
3. You can take "early departure" as many times as required, and no salary will be deducted. However, it will be noted during appraisals.

I hope these suggestions might be effective.

Gunjan

Ravi,

You have not responded properly to the questions and feelings raised by other CiteHR friends previously. In the same way, how do you want to share your feelings/topics with others? Everything must be in a "give and take" way. :-)

My gosh, which company gives time for personal work? I really would like to join this firm. But trust me, this shouldn't be applicable as an employer cannot pay the employees for personal work, and employees would just need a reason to start throwing tantrums.

Anyways, this is my personal view after being an HR for more than 4 years.

Cheers to all.

Esther S

Hi Ravi,

Your concern for the well-being of the employees is commendable. Without a satisfying personal life, employees cannot function effectively. Personal work that requires the employee's presence should be done by the employee themselves, hence they can be granted short leave or permission to leave in between or early (like attending a parents' meeting at school).

Tasks such as paying phone bills, etc., which can be done by anyone, can be delegated to a junior cadre employee by making necessary arrangements in the department/office or by engaging an outside agency. E-payments can be introduced wherever possible. Using a credit card is the best way to make timely payments. One does not need to be wealthy to have a credit card.

Management can make arrangements to address the personal needs of employees so that they can focus more on their work and contribute effectively.

Dear Ravi,

An employee has been availed of casual leave and short leave which are to be used for these purposes. It is up to the employee how they use up to the optimum. Every human being has his/her social life which cannot be neglected, but at the same time one should prioritize his needs and responsibilities respectively. I 100% agree that one cannot work for 10 hrs continuously; relaxation is a must, so this time can be utilized for personal and social activities. As far as the employer is concerned, I do not think that any restrictions are there; you are allowed on a timely basis (as long as you do not misuse it).

So Ravi, doing personal work during official hours should not be a problem as long as you make the right use of it.

Regards,

MS Nair

Mr. Ravi,

I just wanted to know that where are you working, Its not possible in MNC's culture. We have a office boy / rider for such type of needs, if your presence is required there then you have to take short leave for that. (Max. upto two time / month & each short leave consist of 2 hours). Also it's depending upon employer / Organisation to how much they provide privilege to the employees to finish personal work in office hours.

And one more thing i like to mention that you have quoted a word "typical HR mindset", kindly remember depending upon organizational needs and as well as employees requirement HR is there to take care.

Hope you will never mind my words but its true to accept what r you doing is definitely misguide / encourage others to do so.


With Regards

Vow what a debate :)…these kind of topic should be discuss here but in a good spirit…a big NO to irritation /frustration/anger kind of stuff…Ravi..i realy appreciate that you are thinking about other people who can't find time for their personal work out of their busy schedules, instead of enjoying what you got……I feel that HR personnel should be smart enough to manage these kind of situation….somewhere I feel HR should be flexible enough on this issue…Organisation should be employee friendly so that employees also feel good and try to put their 100% to the work assigned to them …As per my opinion, a satisfied employee is more productive then frustrated employee. On the other hand HR should keep watch on those employees who are trying to take advantage without any genuine reason… HR ppl should beware of some CLEVER employees who are always trying different2 tricks to escape from the work…thanks