Is It Possible to Work in HR in India Without Certification? Surprising Observations

Dear members,

I am a new member of this website. I have been reading almost all postings and response comments. My observation is that some members like Madhu TK and Rajiv, etc., are experts in labor laws, and I must appreciate their advice. However, most of the subjects being posted are repeated and cover very basic fundamentals of HR, which are taught in MBA, Diploma, or Certification in HR programs.

It surprises me how people with such poor and lacking basic HR knowledge can work in HR in India. Is it possible to work in Indian companies without being a certified HR professional? In the West, it is not possible at all. Even famous characters in the US elections, like Joe the Plumber, cannot work without the proper license for plumbing, which also requires certification in plumbing.

This is surprising...

Dear Captain Cook,

I agree with you. We are a Talent Acquisition Support Service, providing recruitment and staffing support to some well-known large companies. Our experience with the HR fraternity, especially at the root level, has been close to appalling. While most of the HR executives are duly qualified and have an MBA in HR, more often than not, unfortunately, the practical skills have not been taught or learned during this education. This leads to a significant gap.

The above is not meant to criticize anyone but just to share my experience.

Warm Regards,
Marut Bhardwaj

Hello friends,

I agree that possibly the MBA course curriculum is not able to address all the needs of the industry. In fact, there is very little interaction between the industry and academic institutions. At most, a few guest lectures are organized from the industry, and summer projects are done by students where not much can be learned.

Here is an opportunity to improve the curriculum of MBA-HR.

Another difficulty is that the variety of work expected from HR has increased tremendously. HR includes, in addition to normal HR subjects, legal and statutory compliances, Industrial Relations, dealing with various government agencies and local bodies, routine administrative activities relating to people - the list seems to be endless, from discipline, uniform, salary processing, etc.

It is quite difficult to imagine how all these can be covered in a regular MBA syllabus, and even if included, it will only cover theory. Ultimately, the learning will need to happen in the workplace.

Regards,
Nishikant

I would agree with the comments of the original poster. Not only am I astounded by the lack of knowledge demonstrated by "supposed" HR professionals here, but also the lack of simple IT skills needed to download and open files posted here.

The other major failing I see every day on this site is the constant asking of the same questions over and over and over again. CiteHR is a fantastic reference source and contains a massive amount of material posted by the members, yet no one ever seems to use the SEARCH box located at the top of each page to check if the material they want is already here.

We are all busy people, that is a given in today's fast-moving world. But expecting other people to take time out of their busy days to provide answers to questions you yourself can readily find with a few keystrokes on CiteHR is an unreasonable imposition.

It is also an unreasonable imposition to expect posters to personally send files to you that you, for some reason or another, have difficulty downloading. Some threads have dozens and dozens of such requests AND 99.9% OF THE TIME, THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH THE FILE. Check with your IT department first. If you are prevented by firewalls, etc., then go to an internet cafe and download the file onto a USB drive. It is important to learn how to solve problems and use initiative, not expect others to spoon-feed you.

No training course, no Diploma or MBA, etc., can ever cover everything someone needs to know in a job, be it HR, Engineering, IT, Medicine, or whatever. The real learning starts the day you start work on the job.

Part of the problem also is that people take on jobs that they do not have the skills and experience to do. That is a major problem in recruiting and selecting staff. Anyone can lie at an interview; I have seen it time and time again. It is up to the interviewer(s) to ask the right questions to weed out those sorts of people. I might be wrong but based on my observations, there's more than a few people here who would not survive a job interview with me.

The problem is also exacerbated by employers expecting their staff to work beyond their capabilities instead of spending money and hiring the right people.

OK, that's my take on the matter, for better or worse. :-D

Happy New Year to the CiteHR community.

John in Oz

Dear Friends,

I more than 100% agree with all of you. In fact, yesterday I really got annoyed with one of the posts on a non-HR subject - Bhagavad Gita as an Ebook. The initiator of the post forgot to attach the file, and now the post has exceeded 8 pages, with people repeatedly requesting the same attachment. I had posted a similar file a couple of months ago in a related thread.

People do not take the time to check for duplicate threads before posting a new one. Additionally, they do not utilize the search box, as John rightly mentioned. If people made a little effort to search, the number of new threads on the same topic could be reduced.

The site is excellent, but members need to put in a bit more effort to make it even better. It is crucial not to turn it into just another community filled with irrelevant content.

There is an interesting thread on the do's and don'ts to observe while posting on CiteHR - how I wish people would adhere to it!!!

Regards,

Bharathi Sarkar.

Dear Friends,

I agree completely with what is mentioned in the posts.

I still struggle to understand: has the personnel department in India evolved into HR? The HR executives are exploited across industries. They are treated as clerical staff and used as data entry operators. Knowledge sharing is a big question mark, and the impression passed on by seniors in the field is that HR only involves clerical activities, particularly regarding PF and ESI.

Any innovative initiatives are discouraged by giving examples and using phrases like "don't be a dreamer; be practical," "this is not going to work here," "do you think our team has the brains to understand and appreciate?"

Some time back, Mr. Peer Mohammad posted a very interesting piece: "An eagle in the company of chicks."

This cannot be used to defend oneself for their poor standards. We believe that people trying to evolve into HR professionals, despite the poor standards in their workplace, find a treasure in CITEHR.

Please be patient and kindly share your knowledge and wisdom to help the troubled fraternity empower itself.

Hello All,

I do agree with Mr. John that by updating our technical skills and HR knowledge, we can avoid many problems. But still, I would like to mention that on this site, we do have freshers or students who would like to know about some HR concepts. That's why a few basic questions have been asked, which I feel is very good. Our juniors are trying to update their knowledge with such an authentic source.

By guiding them properly, I feel we can surely make it the best place to spread knowledge. I do agree with Mr. Aakrit that the HR profile or concept is still not clear to many people in our industries... but let's hope for the best. With our active efforts, problems can be resolved, though I know it will take time.

Hello All,

I do agree with Mr. John that by updating our technical skills and HR knowledge, we can avoid many problems. But still, I would like to mention that on this site, we do have freshers or students who would like to know about some HR concepts, and that is why a few basic questions have been asked, which I feel is very good. Our juniors are trying to update their knowledge with such an authentic source.

By guiding them properly, I feel we can surely make it the best place to spread knowledge.

I do agree with Mr. Aakrit that the HR profile or concept is still not clear to many people in our industries... but let's hope for the best. With our active efforts, problems can be resolved, though I know it will take time.

Dear all,

I agree with all your points, but most of all, I think Ms. Vijeta Shukla. There are many freshers and students coming to this site. Yes, it takes time for them to understand how it works. Not all companies have an IT team to explain firewalls and pop-up blockers. Sometimes it is just the accountant whose only computer education is 'Tally' and MS Office, "picked up in bits and pieces," who handles HR as well.

What I mean to say is, I agree with you guys about the MBA - HR (Theory - Practical) Gap, by people not knowing how to use this site better... but I disagree with the main title which says disappointment. No! The main purpose of this beautiful site is the transfer of knowledge. Here is where the student/seeker will come to seek knowledge. Then how can one complain about the depth of the knowledge? His asking questions itself is proof he agrees he does not know and would like to know what he does not know. We give where it is required to give and take when we think we need guidance. Does it not work like this? Then how does it matter even if we spend one second pointing him to the right thread, where such a discussion may have the information he seeks?

I believe we would only discourage people from asking if we restrict/comment upon what they may ask.

Regards,
Kavitha

I am very disappointed after reading this post of Caption Cook. But I want to clarify one thing here that most HR members of CiteHR don't have a proper HR degree or diploma, but they are involved directly or indirectly in HR activities like payroll or recruitment, etc., because most organizations look for experience and candidates' ability to perform a particular job. Only graduates can handle activities such as interview scheduling, maintaining HR MIS, payroll, etc. If these individuals want to enhance their knowledge or pursue an HR degree or diploma for career growth while working, then what is wrong with that?

Many people do not have the opportunity to continue their studies or pursue a master's degree due to personal problems, such as financial constraints or other issues, unlike other HR professionals who complete their MBA immediately after graduation.

This is my opinion. Please do not offend any CiteHR member.

Regards,
Manoj

You are correct. I will be more careful next time. Thank you for the feedback, Pradeep. I was always a little spelling deficient. I hope that is not another inefficiency prevalent in the HR world that is disappointing my peers.

Folks! For all those who misunderstood the meaning... It is not peaces but pieces.

Aha! And I used spell check this time:)

Regards, Kavitha

Thanks to all, I appreciate all respondents for sharing their concerns. I am not worried about qualifications but the quality of questions being asked, which are being replied to repeatedly or have no substance at all.

I firmly believe in hard work in advancing in all walks of life rather than quick-fix readymade replies to my curiosity. If I have to master the art of one function, I have to exert and explore the depth and search for the best justification for the query I have.

I don't appreciate a parasitic approach.

Captaincook

Captain,

In India, employers take people with Degree like MSW, PDG's in Management (HR Spec), MBA in HR, MA Sociology, MA Psychology ...working as HR Professionals. This is the supply side. During the last 10 year's growth of IT has been higher than MFG or Pharma etc and during the last 6-8 yrs the Call Center's boom is there, requirement of HR professionals have gone up considerably. This is the demand side.

Now, when demand is not being met by quality of the supply, you will have such issues. If you analyze this issue, it's not with the individual but the education system which is bringing out such professionals into main stream of professional life and the employers who are in need of these professional are ready to compromising situation. Considering that we have HR professional's with an MBA background or an MSW, the practical knowledge he / she gets only in companies after they start their careers. We do have a very limited exposure on rules of the legal legislations or how an appreciative enquiry is conducted. We have high exposure on the amount of theoretical knowledge that these institutions are able to deliver.

We will have quiet a few interesting people out there who are willing to learn & by sharing these professional thoughts. We will have to filter and respond to ideas and issues which we feel are quiet there to be addressed and guide these young professional's.

Regards

Dear all,

I do agree with all of you.

Why do people not realize the importance of revisiting a post they have read before?

I have the answer. For example, I always thought that no expert or individual has the same knowledge. Even though I am a master in a particular topic, I always wish to revisit it because there might be something I do not know.

Others may share a similar attitude. Learning is a continuous process. If you feel the need, post a new topic so that there is no repetition. If you start this practice, maybe in the future, every post will be something new. (Friends, "you" here also refers to myself.)

Secondly,

Without basic knowledge, how can one be an HR?

Based on my experience, what I learned in my MBA (from AU) is completely different from practical experience. For instance, I had never encountered the term "payroll" during my MBA studies. In my first interview, the interviewer's initial question was, "What is payroll?"

This highlights the disparity in our education system. Only a few B-schools can offer quality education.

Thank you.

Yes, no one should dare to question the nature of questions posted by us; after all, that's what this site is for. I don't care about my grammar, language, or the nature of the question as long as I can post a query on this site, step out for a cup of coffee or chat with my cute colleague, and return after an hour to log on again. I just download the formats, print them, and hand them to my boss. Even now, my boss thinks I have become too intelligent and praises me a lot. Because whatever questions or doubts I have, if I ask my boss, he will think I was recruited by mistake. Where else could I get such an easy job? So kudos to the Cite HR professionals for helping me and replying to my posts, ensuring my job security, and allowing me to spend more time in the canteen with my cute colleague.

Well done, Ravi. I really admire you for whatever you said.

Now coming to Mr. Cook, one most important question: what is your problem if our experts keep on answering questions which they have done previously also? How many forums on CiteHR did you visit, and how many threads do you actually read?

Let me tell you, you have only mentioned two names from the legal forum, but many of us are indebted to people like Octivious and Mr. Peer for their contributions.

Now, the million-dollar question: you said you don't like a parasitic approach, but tell me something – even a big neem tree was small one day. It took a lot of care and proper nurturing for years for it to bear fruits. None of us fall from the womb and become HR managers. We all need guidance. CiteHR is growing at a 100% rate every day, so new members don't always know how to go about with their queries. The simple way is to post it; the moderator is there to check out irrelevant posts.

Managers across the world have double standards. Please understand that, and I bet Australian managers also have double standards. They want us to do everything, even things that they themselves at times are not aware of. This is the time when sites like CiteHR come to assistance.

I maintain that you have no right to hurt the sentiments of our members in CiteHR, and Mr. Cook, people around the globe write their queries in Google. So are they not parasites?

Dear PRIYANKA,

I feel pity for you because you unnecessarily vented your anger. You did not understand the point which Mr. Cook wanted to highlight. I hope you read the posts once again and understand where the so-called HR people here need to improve.

Well, I agree with most of you as discussed above. Many people here post unnecessary jokes (not related to HR anyway), games, antakshari, etc. I have interacted with some seniors here, and they provide good support in every field. For me, the site is a good source for learning if used properly.

Regards