Feeling Stuck in IT Recruitment? Seeking Advice on Moving to HR Strategy and Management

Hello,

Greetings for the day to all!

I am an MBA HR graduate (2006 pass out) from Pune University (not one of the top 20 colleges in India) and a Commerce graduate.

Currently, I have 2 years of experience in the IT recruitment industry. I have primarily worked for a Fortune 100 IT company as a Recruitment Executive through a renowned consulting firm in India. The pay package is very low considering the experience and education acquired.

I aspire to progress to the position of HR Strategy and HR Management for a business unit in an IT company. Could someone please inform me about the steps I should take to accelerate my progress in that direction?

Would pursuing an Executive MBA course from one of the top 10 MBA colleges in India help, or should I consider advancing in the same line by changing companies? When applying to a company, two key factors are usually considered:
1. Which premier B-school did you graduate from?
2. Your last pay package was X; based on industry standards, we can offer a maximum of a 30% raise.
Unfortunately, the level of experience often seems to be overlooked. Some individuals with less knowledge command higher pay packages simply because they graduated from a prestigious B-school.

Could someone provide guidance?

Regards,
Shruti.

Hello Shruti,

This is the irony of INTELLECTUAL BANKRUPTCY in Indian Corporate HR, which lags behind global practices in compensation management and does not utilize a scientific method of job evaluation to determine the relative value of a job based on job family, weightages, classifications, and factors.

Worldwide, especially in the Western world, the following methods are practiced:
1. Hay Guide Chart-Profile Method
2. Watson Wyatt Schemes
i. Employee Point Factor Plan
ii. European Factor Plan
iii. Computerized Job Evaluation Plan
iv. Competency-Based Job Evaluation
3. KPMG Management Consulting Scheme - Equate/Medquate model
4. Pricewaterhouse Cooper Scheme - Pricewaterhouse Profile Methodology

The dilemma faced by Indian HR is determining what is priced. The challenge lies in qualifications, institutes, candidates, and jobs in the Indian corporate sector.

This challenge stems from the scandalous propaganda of B-Schools and Premier Institutes, prioritizing their interests over promoting world's best practices in Indian corporations.

The graduates of these B-Schools and Premier Schools often fail in implementing such knowledge in Indian corporations as they are primarily highflyers receiving fancy education.

There is no official or valid definition for B-Schools or Premier Schools; these are norms created by scandal mongers to elevate education as a status symbol.

Education is not subservient to private limited institutes; it fosters scholars and Nobel Laureates. Nobel Prizes are awarded to individual laureates and scholars, not to institutions. Indian Nobel Laureates have predominantly emerged from the formal university system.

Nobel laureates do not originate from such Indian schools but from universities affiliated with the University Grants Commission, which have the authority to award degrees.

For advanced studies and overseas job opportunities, only education from formally approved universities and degrees are considered valid. Immigration to countries like Australia, Canada, and New Zealand awards points for qualifications from approved universities.

The government, through bodies like the University Grants Commission, validates and approves Indian universities for overseas job opportunities and advanced studies.

There is no hierarchical ranking system like Fortune 500 for educational institutes; such norms are myths perpetuated by Indian scandal mongers. Institutes that mislead candidates and extract money for false promises are only wasting time and resources.

Please read this carefully to become informed and discerning about these facts.

Badlu.

Hi Bro,

You have rightly pointed out the weaknesses in corporate HR practices in India, which are mostly dominated by rumors and propaganda, where they do not stand in global perspectives.

Still, Indian HR practices are revolving around subjective terminologies, and nothing has been done to establish a pragmatic approach towards achieving objective norms in HR practices.

Basically, when I finished my MIRPM and went to the UK, I found it difficult to deal with HR issues and comply with management's HR agenda. The most prevalent basic architectural HR practices in the West, which I had never heard or witnessed in Indian companies at that time.

Most of the terms were meaningless. For example, what value and utility do Job Descriptions in Indian corporations have beyond justifying employee positions in the company?

In the West, it is mandatory by law to have job descriptions. Job analysis is done based on job descriptions to further evaluate the job for market pricing. Compensation surveys are regularly conducted to adjust the median market price, and strategies are developed to attract, retain, and reward the best talent in the market. Performance appraisals are religiously practiced with forced distribution merit increases in percentages for achieving different levels of performance as a well-defined policy.

But in India, we experienced annual performance appraisals used as an instrument for annual rituals only to criticize employees and frustrate them with meager increments even for the best performances. Many people have different opinions and jump to criticize this point, but the fact remains, with some exceptions.

Global HR practices have hardly any linkages with Indian HR practices.

I never find convincing the use of Yoga, Psychometric Tests has benefited the Indian Industry in terms of percentage improvement in employee selection, fitness, or psychological improvements yielding greater results as stimulus tools. No proof or research has been done on this subject; just blind faith in the name of these HR games in India.

B-Schools and Premier Institutes' business is a big misleading concept prevalent only in India, as we don't see it in the West. Here, all universities carry the same degree of weightage. No discrimination is allowed by law based on false propaganda or any kind of cheating formula to rate one university greater than another.

Such discriminatory practices are illegal and offensive. Even in the US, it is not viable; the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has the authority to take action against such discriminations based on favoritism to one institute, which is not allowed and punishable.

Basically, in India, the genesis of such practices in Indian Corporates comes from the feudal system when "Chartur Varana" of social strata, for example, Skhytriya, Brahmin, Vyashya, Shudra, was practiced as a caste system.

This B-School and Premier Institute has the same foundation of medieval age philosophy.

This is ridiculous and a pity for Indian Corporates and a shame for academicians as well as so-called low caliber biased intellectuals from such institutes and B-schools who promote these principles into Indian Corporates.

Rashid Musa

Greetings,

Thanks for your insight, both Mr. Badlooser and Mr. Rahsid. After a long time, I find something worth reading and valuable to the HR fraternity as an eye-opener.

We see many touts around us spreading a lot of misconceptions and playing rumors to make propaganda of B-Schools and Premier Institutes' nuisance. But this is a fitting reply for those who take other HR Experts and professionals for granted just because they do not open their mouths to expose the myths of these B-Schools and Premier Institutes' touts.

Well done, and we need to speak loudly against such a virus campaign for medieval age discrimination practices in professional fields. This is an example of corrupt Indian HR practice - grading by Hindu Manu Script Social Strata Concept of Chatur Varana into the 21st Century Professional Domain. Very clever tricks to promote the same ideologies through backdoor entry to get recognition.

This is a bad practice and goes against the norms of global ethical values for intellectual property recognition - to the original manuscript and creators or inventors.

Good job,

Raj

Hi Shruti, Badlu, Rashid, and Raj,

I agree that the current HR practices of organizations and the salary packages given are not based on the capability of the person but on the BRAND STAMP that the person carries, especially of the Graduating or Post-graduation college.

A typical HR Recruitment consultant fresher across the IT industry in Bangalore gets in the range of 1.50 to 2.25 LPA. If that person has 2 plus years of experience, then it becomes 2.5 LPA + incentives (which are so meager that you cannot even treat your friends in that minuscule amount).

Now considering the corporate salary surveys that take place across all kinds of business magazines, etc.

An HR MT (Management Trainee) from a tier 2 B-school gets a campus recruitment package that starts from 3.5 to 6.5 LPA, depending on the college negotiation and relations with the company. An HR MT (Management Trainee) from a tier 1 B-school (I never understand the categories of Tier 1 and 2 though) gets anything that starts from 6.5 LPA to 11.00 LPA (again Depends). Now if you have any Relevant (that again is a Pandora's box) experience, you can negotiate for 1-3 lakhs more too.

Now, considering that the figures in the magazines are manipulated even if by 30%, the salary figures are still very large.

Isn't it strange that these are the same people in B-schools who know less about the corporate world reality facts and more about the bookish laws and quote Maslow and other theories in their speech, which I term as "Management Bakwaas."

It really makes very clear a fact that "The Amount of the Salary you earn is not at all proportional to the Hard work or experience you have but is directly and exponentially proportional to the Management Bakwaas that you can Do."

I do not tell that MBA degrees do not teach anything, but there are very few people who have done their Management degrees to learn and grow their skills. Most of the people are those who either have been prey to the lure of:

1. Mummy Daddy pressure of getting into a B-school and getting out of it with a FAT PACKAGE.
2. Getting a ready-made job in hand from campus since they are heirs of a great branded B-school even if they know anything or not.
3. Getting a nice bride or groom who will look at an MBA as a well-settled person.
4. Baki log jaa rahe hain MBA karne behti ganga mein haath main bhi dho leta hoon.

So bottom line comes as if you wanna earn more Get into a BIG B-school that features in the top 20, 30 list of all magazines and walk out of it with a job and Fat Package.

God knows when this B-school bubble will burst like the Stock Market Bubble which burst due to recession!!!!!

I am also in agreement with the discussion about "badlooser." This explanation regarding Business Schools vs. Universities/approved Institutions' HR courses was necessary to open the eyes of HR heads in the corporate sectors in India.

Hi Bro, you have correctly pointed out the weaknesses in corporate HR practices in India, which are mostly dominated by rumors and propaganda, where they do not align with global perspectives. Indian HR practices still revolve around subjective terminologies, and little has been done to establish a pragmatic approach towards achieving objective norms in HR practices.

When I completed my MIRPM and went to the UK, I found it challenging to deal with HR issues and align with management's HR agenda. The fundamental HR practices prevalent in the West were unfamiliar to me during my time in Indian companies.

In the West, job descriptions are mandatory by law, and job analysis is conducted based on these descriptions to evaluate market pricing. Compensation surveys are regularly carried out to adjust market median prices, and strategies are devised to attract, retain, and reward top talent in the market.

Performance appraisals are rigorously implemented with forced distribution merit increases for different performance levels as per defined policies. In India, annual performance appraisals are often used as mere rituals to criticize employees, offering minimal increments even for exceptional performances.

There is a significant disparity between global HR practices and those in India. Practices like the use of Yoga or Psychometric Tests in the Indian industry lack convincing evidence of their benefits in terms of improving employee selection, fitness, or psychological well-being.

The concept of B-Schools and Premier Institutes creating a significant impact is misleading, primarily prevalent in India. Unlike in the West, where all universities carry equal weight, discrimination based on false propaganda is illegal. Any form of favoritism or cheating to rate one university higher than another is punishable by law.

The genesis of such discriminatory practices in Indian corporates can be traced back to the feudal system, where the social strata like Kshatriya, Brahmin, Vaishya, Shudra were practiced as part of the caste system. The foundation of B-Schools and Premier Institutes mirrors medieval age philosophy, which is concerning for Indian corporates and reflects poorly on academicians and biased intellectuals promoting such principles.

Rashid Musa

Hey friends!!!

Can't we, people, do something about it? We all know... This is the scenario... So at least we, all members, should do something about it so that this can be changed. Everything is possible if we all become one!!! Isn't it? Please, let's not discuss but let's do something because I'm also suffering from the same problem and really bugged up now. I want change that too, a big one!

Regards,
Seema

The new economic liberalization has industrialized the higher education system, which is driven by the purchasing power of the customers, not by the intellectual capabilities of the buyer. The economic paradigm has changed the philosophy of education in India based on the following principles:

1. Privatization of Education
2. Financial Autonomy of Education
3. Establishing Education as an Industry

Financial autonomy is the foundation of this new-era privatization of education as an industry. The fundamental objectives for the privatized educational industry are to increase the production of more Diploma and Certified Courses Graduates and sell them in the market. All so-called private limited B-Schools and Premier Institutes are financially autonomous and provide private education because their syllabus is not as per University Grant Commission guidelines.

But the fundamental education of graduates who attend these private limited B-Schools and Premier Institutes comes from the same formal Universities. Therefore, credit goes to the University and not to private limited B-Schools or Premier Institutes, which simply attach their name to the University Degree with Post Graduate Certification, camouflaging to hijack the knowledge-building exercise of the University.

Hence, there is a vast difference in the validity of private limited education and University Degrees in the real world for overseas employment, immigration to another country for permanent residency status, or pursuing advanced studies or research at universities abroad.

If such questions are asked in interviews, candidates must have these answers to clear the doubts of the interviewer.

I read all the comments and it is very informative. This post has offered insight to people for distinguishing between real good quality and standard education practices by Indian universities against private limited financially autonomous institutes who make loud voices and yell from towers to catch people's attention and divert the real objectives of education. No institutes produce Nobel Laureates, but the genius intellectuals grow within themselves with the circumstances around them by developing their ability to judge and react to the issues. That means experience matters; every graduate is on par when they are fresh and inexperienced and takes time to prove their mettle.

This is good information on how to avoid false propaganda and commercial gimmicks from being victimized by so-called B-Schools and premier institutes in the field of education, especially in India.

Abraham

Greetings to all respondents on this post.

I am surprised to see this post being on site for a week, with over 300 members responding and visiting, yet the person SONIC777 named Shruti has not responded to these comments.

Is this member SONIC777 named Shruti also a dubious identity like B-Schools and Premier Institutes?

Warm Regards

Rashid

Hi Rashid,

Even if she is dubious, she has come out with one very important aspect which affects all HR professionals at some level. So, I guess we must welcome such a post.

And all thanks to Badlu and Rashid for giving their valuable inputs.

Hi Rashid, Badloser, Raj, Amit, and all those who have posted comments on the post query,

I would like to thank all the seniors for their valuable contribution to my query. I am actually trying to analyze the current scenario of the B-schools and their high package strategy against the already experienced HR personnel in the market. This is taking me some time along with the regular office work.

Although the next phase of this discussion would be a strategic plan to bring to light the findings to the corporates.

Thanks to the posts, I have already started analyzing the HR positions in the market with respect to the compensation methods informed to me by Badloser.

Also, I have understood and have been discussing the 4 Varna analogy given by you with a few fellow HR colleagues and IT professionals in my contacts.

It is just a matter of time before I can post my thanks to all of you with my analysis on some of the industry findings. This will obviously prove that I am not a dubious identity but a fellow HR professional who has been struggling in the industry due to the hype created by a few private institutions and industrial management folks.

Anyways, I will post that report soon after the new year.

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Regards,

Shruti

Dear Shruti,

If you are seriously work on this project, then everyone of us will help you. For good judgement and proper conclusion. I wish to offer you one measurement which will be more systematic and scientific tool for placing and analyzing jobs size and job level.

For detail salary survey take all jobs families in various classifications as follows:

All job families to slotted with equal job weightages to club them into one level of job and use experience ladder of every 5 year slabs as measurement scale of pricing.

JOB FAMILIES:
Administration- Administrative jobs (Secretarial, Clerical, office assistant, Business Assistant etc)
Professionals- Management- Middle and Senior
Specialist – Consulting Know-How (Legal, C.A, Architecture & Structural, IR, Technologist)
Engineering- Mechanical, Electrical, Chemical,
Research & Development- Doctor, Scientist, Chief Analyst,
IT-

1. Every Job you will find different salary depending on- Sector/ Industry/Region.
2. Place them in one bracket of experience scale of every five years and arrange them as salary range from minimum to maximum salary range depending on job level and size.
3. Arrange all salary range minimum to maximum salary on five years' experience scale.
4. Define them as minimum- mid- maximum as range of salary for five year slab as market value of the job.
5. Refine the midpoint of the salary range of each job in similar 5 year slab experience club as indicator of market average.
6. Define highest salary in range as maximum experience and lowest as beginner in that experience slab.
7. Add 5% plus or minus for error of judgment to adjust your results to become more realistic will be a real salary scale for that nature and level of job in the market.

BADLU

There is no end to frauds and cheating in business. The global economic meltdown and recession are examples of the amount of cheating and fraud being practiced in the market and prevalent in society. A notable example is Satyam Info, which was banned by the World Bank for cheating investors, resulting in the cancellation of their contract.

Now, eating public money and engaging in cheating practices have become the norm in the game called business. Business schools and premier institutes are propagating the same agenda.

BADLU

I appreciate the views and facts produced here by not only very experienced but experts in the subject matter. I strongly support the views and observations by Mr. Badlooser, Mr. Rahsid, Mr. Raj, and Mr. Abraham.

There is no technology or science, or any management principle involved in the selection of candidates in Indian Industries or Corporates, for that matter. Most of the candidates were selected, and salaries negotiated based on face value rather than job content or its market value. Moreover, these newly recruited individuals take at least 6 to 8 months to start taking responsibilities, sharing the burden of decision-making, taking on workload, or truly contributing with appropriate initiatives. Initially, in the first 6 months, we know people take time to understand the organization, desired performance level, accountability, and directions of the management.

The area of HR in Indian industries has the biggest vacuum, and really, there is nothing being done to regulate the Indian job market practice. No base has been established on some scientific principles where we can define industry-based standard compensation structure or market benchmark. It's very much diverse and totally unmatched with the same jobs in the same industry having different pricing in isolation just at the mercy of management whims and fancies.

At least, this kind of debate will generate new scope for improving good uniform and scientific approaches to adopt good practices at par with global standards to avoid the loss of the best talent in the market just due to some prejudiced mindsets favoritism, and nepotism culture as these B-schools or premier institutes are spreading myths rather than removing bad practices in the field of management. It's like untouchability and apartheid kind of norms to cluster some education institutes for discrimination is against 21st-century global standards.

Be careful...

Captain Cook

Dear all,

I am sincerely thankful to all the members who have dared to expose the real truth behind these so-called high-profile B-schools. People in our country are used to evaluating things based on how they look rather than what they actually offer. I have come across many top B-school graduates who have failed miserably to achieve their career goals. On the contrary, many shining stars in the corporate world did not attend such bogus institutes. A prime example we can all consider is the legendary Mr. Dhirubhai Ambani. This is not to say that individuals do not learn anything from top B-schools, but merely having the label cannot automatically make them the best among their peers.

Regards,
Mehul