Dear All,
An employee who has 14 years of experience and has been working with us for the last three years is now under scrutiny. Despite consistent excellent performance, it has come to our attention that he has fraudulent qualifications with forged degrees. We are now faced with the dilemma of deciding what action should be taken.
Regards,
Gambhir
From India, Mundra
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4An employee who has 14 years of experience and has been working with us for the last three years is now under scrutiny. Despite consistent excellent performance, it has come to our attention that he has fraudulent qualifications with forged degrees. We are now faced with the dilemma of deciding what action should be taken.
Regards,
Gambhir
From India, Mundra
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Hi Gambhir,
I think you have to follow according to the company policies if you have a rigid system. However, if you have the flexibility, I suggest that you confront the employee and cross-question him on this aspect. If he is good in his work, then depending upon his competency and productivity to the company, you have to make the call. Maybe with his original degrees, he knew he would be unable to get the job. Also, sometimes it happens that the person has great technical and functional knowledge but does not have the required degree. Please consider the suggestions of other members too.
Regards,
Anuradha
From India, Delhi
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I think you have to follow according to the company policies if you have a rigid system. However, if you have the flexibility, I suggest that you confront the employee and cross-question him on this aspect. If he is good in his work, then depending upon his competency and productivity to the company, you have to make the call. Maybe with his original degrees, he knew he would be unable to get the job. Also, sometimes it happens that the person has great technical and functional knowledge but does not have the required degree. Please consider the suggestions of other members too.
Regards,
Anuradha
From India, Delhi
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If he is excellent at work,company can sponser him for the degree required for the job..., I think it will help him and company too Regards Rukuvijay
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Hello Gambhir,
I'd say if he is performing well, then the company should overlook this act and ask him if he wants to go for the required degree so that he can legitimize.
Regards,
Fahd Khan Sherani
From Pakistan, Karachi
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I'd say if he is performing well, then the company should overlook this act and ask him if he wants to go for the required degree so that he can legitimize.
Regards,
Fahd Khan Sherani
From Pakistan, Karachi
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Hi, how can any big and good company retain such an employee? Please practice policies! Today this is one case, imagine tomorrow if he goes around telling people outside of how he managed to stay despite forging degrees, your company name would fall. People, please think hard. We have numerous such skills in the market. Just learn to tap resources. I am strongly against keeping such an employee. He is a fraud. How can anyone call him fantastic? Very strange.
Fayeg
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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Fayeg
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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Basically, he is a fraud, and action should be taken. Please change your HR policies and strictly follow recruitment procedures. Recruit any person only after thorough verification and closely monitor all employees periodically (e.g., every 6 or 12 months) by the HR department. This includes checking on their family, children, addresses, and contacting close persons of each employee. If these steps are followed, there should be no problems.
Thank you
From India, Coimbatore
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Thank you
From India, Coimbatore
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Dear All,
An employee who has 14 years of experience and has been working with us for the last three years. He has consistently performed excellently, but suddenly, we have discovered that he has forged degrees. Now, we are confused about what action should be taken.
Regards,
Gambhir
Come on, Gambhir! What were you doing during these three years while he was working? Or are you a new joiner in the company digging up old employees' references?
The first issue is that your HR reference check was not strong three years ago. Secondly, you have had him work for three years and found his performance excellent. My advice to you, in the name of HR and humanity, is to forget that he has fake degrees.
He is a fantastic employee. Sponsoring him to obtain a degree may even degrade his performance, so just forget it. The human mind is too complicated. OK. OK. OK
From India, Pune
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An employee who has 14 years of experience and has been working with us for the last three years. He has consistently performed excellently, but suddenly, we have discovered that he has forged degrees. Now, we are confused about what action should be taken.
Regards,
Gambhir
Come on, Gambhir! What were you doing during these three years while he was working? Or are you a new joiner in the company digging up old employees' references?
The first issue is that your HR reference check was not strong three years ago. Secondly, you have had him work for three years and found his performance excellent. My advice to you, in the name of HR and humanity, is to forget that he has fake degrees.
He is a fantastic employee. Sponsoring him to obtain a degree may even degrade his performance, so just forget it. The human mind is too complicated. OK. OK. OK
From India, Pune
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Interesting dilemma. I agree you should have checked his credentials much earlier. By the way, how did you learn that he had forged certificates? Please clarify.
Humanitarian basis or not, if you 'accept' false certificates, you are only encouraging other fraudulent persons to apply to your and other companies for positions on the strength of these false papers, which is definitely not advisable. What you can do is bend the rules a little and ask the employee to take leave and earn his certificate through an external examination. Tell him that if he has not obtained his certification within, say, six months, you will have no option but to let him go. He must learn that he has to make up for his fraud and not just take it easy, no matter how good he is in his work today.
Jeroo
From India, Mumbai
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Humanitarian basis or not, if you 'accept' false certificates, you are only encouraging other fraudulent persons to apply to your and other companies for positions on the strength of these false papers, which is definitely not advisable. What you can do is bend the rules a little and ask the employee to take leave and earn his certificate through an external examination. Tell him that if he has not obtained his certification within, say, six months, you will have no option but to let him go. He must learn that he has to make up for his fraud and not just take it easy, no matter how good he is in his work today.
Jeroo
From India, Mumbai
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Dear,
In the first place, the company should have checked his certificate before recruiting him. As per your company policies, you can take action against him provided it is proven. I strongly suggest that these people should be given strict warnings and asked to obtain his degree or required qualification within a timeframe that your company can afford. The total expenses should be borne by him only. While on his course, he should not receive any kind of remuneration. You might be a suitable candidate for that post, but if he goes around telling his friends that the company has found him fraudulent, still let him go. Consider your professionalism and your company's image. If we in HR let these things happen, whom do we expect to call the shots? If you are concerned that he might become an asset to your competitor, do not worry; the market is full of fresh and knowledgeable candidates.
Regards, Benance
From United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi
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In the first place, the company should have checked his certificate before recruiting him. As per your company policies, you can take action against him provided it is proven. I strongly suggest that these people should be given strict warnings and asked to obtain his degree or required qualification within a timeframe that your company can afford. The total expenses should be borne by him only. While on his course, he should not receive any kind of remuneration. You might be a suitable candidate for that post, but if he goes around telling his friends that the company has found him fraudulent, still let him go. Consider your professionalism and your company's image. If we in HR let these things happen, whom do we expect to call the shots? If you are concerned that he might become an asset to your competitor, do not worry; the market is full of fresh and knowledgeable candidates.
Regards, Benance
From United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi
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I agree with Mr.Fayeg . Please practice Principal in your work environment. reg Rajeshwari
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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Dear Gambhir,
It depends on:
1) The HR policies followed by your company.
2) The performance of the employee.
3) Do you give more importance to education or performance?
My opinion is that the employee shouldn't have forged his documents, but I guess it's work performance that matters the most. If the company is benefiting from the employee, then I don't see any reason why one needs to give more credence to the certificates.
After 3 years, you realize that the documents were forged. Are you willing to let the HR department be a laughing stock? Having said that, you know best. What step needs to be taken depends on a whole lot of other factors apart from the ones mentioned above.
Regards,
Rashmi
From India, Bangalore
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It depends on:
1) The HR policies followed by your company.
2) The performance of the employee.
3) Do you give more importance to education or performance?
My opinion is that the employee shouldn't have forged his documents, but I guess it's work performance that matters the most. If the company is benefiting from the employee, then I don't see any reason why one needs to give more credence to the certificates.
After 3 years, you realize that the documents were forged. Are you willing to let the HR department be a laughing stock? Having said that, you know best. What step needs to be taken depends on a whole lot of other factors apart from the ones mentioned above.
Regards,
Rashmi
From India, Bangalore
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Hi,
Once an established case of fraud comes to light, the company should proceed with the disciplinary action. You can't accommodate "fraud" simply because you find him competent. Had he not produced the false certificate, he would not have been employed in the first place.
In my long 38 years of experience, we came across a similar case where a person, by virtue of his postgraduate qualifications, which eventually turned out to be fake, was granted a promotion to an executive cadre post and subsequently became a Senior Executive. He admitted to having submitted a fake certificate which was detected after nearly 12 years. We demoted him to a non-executive post without protecting his salary. We could not recover the amount paid as an executive, as he had actually performed the executive functions of the post held by him. This decision was based on legal opinion.
Cyril
From India, Nagpur
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Once an established case of fraud comes to light, the company should proceed with the disciplinary action. You can't accommodate "fraud" simply because you find him competent. Had he not produced the false certificate, he would not have been employed in the first place.
In my long 38 years of experience, we came across a similar case where a person, by virtue of his postgraduate qualifications, which eventually turned out to be fake, was granted a promotion to an executive cadre post and subsequently became a Senior Executive. He admitted to having submitted a fake certificate which was detected after nearly 12 years. We demoted him to a non-executive post without protecting his salary. We could not recover the amount paid as an executive, as he had actually performed the executive functions of the post held by him. This decision was based on legal opinion.
Cyril
From India, Nagpur
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Dear Gambhir,
The action you take in this scenario entirely depends upon the value system of your company. If you follow strong ethical values, then there should not be any two ways about it. The person should be fired no matter how wonderful a performer he is because it puts a question mark on his performance. If he is in sales, how do you know if the sales performance is genuine or not as there is always room for fake sales? Think of it like if it is proved that, God forbid, Sachin or Saurav are involved in match-fixing, what action would the Indian Cricket Board take? Certainly, they wouldn't consider their past brilliant performances as it will be a matter of the country's pride and prestige.
Regards,
Mobeen Tejani
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The action you take in this scenario entirely depends upon the value system of your company. If you follow strong ethical values, then there should not be any two ways about it. The person should be fired no matter how wonderful a performer he is because it puts a question mark on his performance. If he is in sales, how do you know if the sales performance is genuine or not as there is always room for fake sales? Think of it like if it is proved that, God forbid, Sachin or Saurav are involved in match-fixing, what action would the Indian Cricket Board take? Certainly, they wouldn't consider their past brilliant performances as it will be a matter of the country's pride and prestige.
Regards,
Mobeen Tejani
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Come on Gambhir, what were you doing these three years while he was working, or are you a new joiner in the company digging graves by conducting reference checks on old employees?
Firstly, your HR in reference checks was not strong three years ago. Secondly, you made him work for three years and found his performance excellent. Take my full and final advice in the name of HR and humanity. Forget that he has fake degrees. He is a fantastic employee. Sponsoring him to pursue a degree may degrade his performance, so just forget it; the human mind is too complicated. OK. OK. OK.
I agree with Ravi.
Regards,
Govil Nanda
From India, Delhi
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Firstly, your HR in reference checks was not strong three years ago. Secondly, you made him work for three years and found his performance excellent. Take my full and final advice in the name of HR and humanity. Forget that he has fake degrees. He is a fantastic employee. Sponsoring him to pursue a degree may degrade his performance, so just forget it; the human mind is too complicated. OK. OK. OK.
I agree with Ravi.
Regards,
Govil Nanda
From India, Delhi
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i agree with ruku. Its hard to get good performers. Policies & rules are made for people & not otherway round. Hence, if possible pls amend / or bring flexibility in the policy. All the best! Janavi
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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If he is performing well, let him continue. At the same time, he may be called and informed about this forgery he had made. After all, performance counts in the private sector, not qualification. Merely possessing higher qualifications is no guarantee of good performance. We have some very good old employees who are under-matric, but in technical expertise, they can outperform qualified engineers. If your company has zero tolerance for it, then you can sack him; otherwise, let him continue.
Regards,
From India, Mumbai
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Regards,
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Gambhir First how to know thier degree is fraud. If person is good moral and skilled then send for training for the ocurse. ak singh
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Hi, Sin is sin. HR must uphold company policy. Fraud is a dismissible offense and tantamount to a crime. He is liable to instant dismissal. However, if you insist on maintaining him because no one in the country can replace him, send him on a compulsory leave without pay to earn his certificate and resume, all at his expense.
In HR, compromise must only be made within the ambit of company policy so as not to set dangerous precedents. Fraud must be discouraged so others do not emulate and utilize room from your laxity. Obedience/compliance is always ultimately better than sacrifice.
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In HR, compromise must only be made within the ambit of company policy so as not to set dangerous precedents. Fraud must be discouraged so others do not emulate and utilize room from your laxity. Obedience/compliance is always ultimately better than sacrifice.
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Hello all!
If thought of practically, a company needs business and likewise profits. If a person is performing well, why not retain them? If the forged degree case is confronted and the individual is given a chance to legitimize all those, they will be grateful to the company forever. Everyone is talking about talent retention - they will not leave the company for a long time.
Gambhir - think it over.
Thanks, Sowjanya.
From India, Bangalore
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If thought of practically, a company needs business and likewise profits. If a person is performing well, why not retain them? If the forged degree case is confronted and the individual is given a chance to legitimize all those, they will be grateful to the company forever. Everyone is talking about talent retention - they will not leave the company for a long time.
Gambhir - think it over.
Thanks, Sowjanya.
From India, Bangalore
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fraud is not acceptable in the organization even if the employee is having very long association, to set an example on other employees
From India, Vadodara
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From India, Vadodara
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Gambhir,
As you might have known, employees are the most important source to run the show. If we lose them, we are at a loss. If the employee is truly valuable, retain them; if not, let them go!!! Salute the person's work, not the degree.
My kind request is to retain. Extract whatever you want from the employee, then send them. Because we are the cause of sending the candidate out, and we will have to recruit the same skill set person again, which will be a waste of time, calls, interviews, etc.
A coin has two sides. Better talk to your management and make a right decision. Hope you will.
With Regards,
Subashree
HR
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As you might have known, employees are the most important source to run the show. If we lose them, we are at a loss. If the employee is truly valuable, retain them; if not, let them go!!! Salute the person's work, not the degree.
My kind request is to retain. Extract whatever you want from the employee, then send them. Because we are the cause of sending the candidate out, and we will have to recruit the same skill set person again, which will be a waste of time, calls, interviews, etc.
A coin has two sides. Better talk to your management and make a right decision. Hope you will.
With Regards,
Subashree
HR
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Hi, I agree with Faye. Company image is also important to survive in today's market. So, I think your organization should take corrective action to resolve this issue. There is no dearth of fantastic performers. You will find them in plenty! Go ahead and make the right decision. Thanks and regards, Rekha.
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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Strange that you did a reference check after 3 years. Anyway, you need to address this issue. Perhaps in a more constructive manner since he is a high flier. For example, you could suspend him and allow him to return only after completing his course and obtaining the original certificates. It is important to ensure that a notice is sent to all employees regarding the actions taken, without revealing his identity. Alternatively, you could ask him to leave, but make sure his relieving letter reflects the actual situation. This is crucial to prevent him from deceiving another company. Providing these options will spread the word that strict actions are taken against unethical behavior, prompting the employee to reflect on his actions and aiding him in correcting his behavior.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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I’d say just sack him so that he can be an example for others. Regards, Fahd Khan Sherani
From Pakistan, Karachi
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From Pakistan, Karachi
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Dear Gmabhir,
There are some solutions to this situation.
1. As he went against the policy of the company, he should be fired, and he must give written acceptance to it.
2. But as we are all aware, finding a new employee is a tough job, and he is a good performer. So, why should the organization suffer because of his cheating? What we can do is rethink the position he is in and place him according to his true testimonials. Then, we must ask him to pursue the required qualifications while continuing in the job. The cost of the qualification can be managed by the salary difference between his new position (as per his true testimonials) and his previous position (where he was based on false testimonials). He will need to cover the remaining difference himself. Once he completes the qualification, he can reapply for his previous position.
A key point to keep in mind is that he should sign a written agreement with the organization for a certain number of years and also provide an apology letter. I believe this approach can resolve the issue to a certain extent.
Regards,
Sujeet
From Nigeria, Lagos
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There are some solutions to this situation.
1. As he went against the policy of the company, he should be fired, and he must give written acceptance to it.
2. But as we are all aware, finding a new employee is a tough job, and he is a good performer. So, why should the organization suffer because of his cheating? What we can do is rethink the position he is in and place him according to his true testimonials. Then, we must ask him to pursue the required qualifications while continuing in the job. The cost of the qualification can be managed by the salary difference between his new position (as per his true testimonials) and his previous position (where he was based on false testimonials). He will need to cover the remaining difference himself. Once he completes the qualification, he can reapply for his previous position.
A key point to keep in mind is that he should sign a written agreement with the organization for a certain number of years and also provide an apology letter. I believe this approach can resolve the issue to a certain extent.
Regards,
Sujeet
From Nigeria, Lagos
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I must say I have to agree with Ravi on this one. I see people here who are in favor of chucking him out and others who are in favor of sponsoring his degree, but in my honest opinion, this would either send out the wrong message or end the career of a person.
Instead, you could choose to ignore this act because this person would never be comfortable having committed fraud. You say he is an excellent employee - maybe it's because his act always nags him into performing. Now, if you were to chuck him out, you would lose this 'excellent' employee, and if you were to sponsor his degree, you could effectively end his excellence.
Also, keep in mind, his fraud may be the only reason he is sticking on to your company. Remember, "Fear is the tax that conscience pays to guilt." If you sponsor his education or give him time off to complete it, there is nothing to hold him back to your organization. And then he becomes a valuable resource in the market. Therefore, I suggest you ignore this mishap and take one for the team (by not putting him on the market :D).
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Instead, you could choose to ignore this act because this person would never be comfortable having committed fraud. You say he is an excellent employee - maybe it's because his act always nags him into performing. Now, if you were to chuck him out, you would lose this 'excellent' employee, and if you were to sponsor his degree, you could effectively end his excellence.
Also, keep in mind, his fraud may be the only reason he is sticking on to your company. Remember, "Fear is the tax that conscience pays to guilt." If you sponsor his education or give him time off to complete it, there is nothing to hold him back to your organization. And then he becomes a valuable resource in the market. Therefore, I suggest you ignore this mishap and take one for the team (by not putting him on the market :D).
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Dear Gambhir,
Before issuing the appointment letter, his credentials and referrals could have been checked. Since he is consistently performing well, you can suggest to your management to sponsor him for obtaining the qualifications required for the nature of his job in your company.
With regards,
L. Kumar
From India, Madras
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Before issuing the appointment letter, his credentials and referrals could have been checked. Since he is consistently performing well, you can suggest to your management to sponsor him for obtaining the qualifications required for the nature of his job in your company.
With regards,
L. Kumar
From India, Madras
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Hello,
I read your query with concern. You have not mentioned anything about the following:
1. What is the nature of the job handled by him?
2. Whether he is handling a confidential nature job.
3. Whether he is involved in IPR activity.
4. Or handling clients or customer relationships.
5. Or carrying out petty work.
Presumably, if he is handling a confidential nature of the job, then retaining such gentlemen requires reviewing of the HR policies.
Thanks & Regards,
UMESH KAPOOR
From India, Mumbai
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I read your query with concern. You have not mentioned anything about the following:
1. What is the nature of the job handled by him?
2. Whether he is handling a confidential nature job.
3. Whether he is involved in IPR activity.
4. Or handling clients or customer relationships.
5. Or carrying out petty work.
Presumably, if he is handling a confidential nature of the job, then retaining such gentlemen requires reviewing of the HR policies.
Thanks & Regards,
UMESH KAPOOR
From India, Mumbai
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Dhirubhai Ambani never looked at paper qualifications but gave the job to whoever took the initiative. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Amitabh Bachchan has no formal qualification in acting. It's practical application on the job that matters more.
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Hi,
First of all, as a process, there should have been a thorough reference check which includes reference checks on work front, academics details, personal background, etc. But in this case, since he has already joined the organization, rather than considering his performance, as an HR professional, I would suggest you take relevant legal action. Supporting this kind of fraud will only worsen the HR image in front of the entire organization and degrade the importance of education as a whole.
Regards,
Alpesh Palan
From India, Nasik
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First of all, as a process, there should have been a thorough reference check which includes reference checks on work front, academics details, personal background, etc. But in this case, since he has already joined the organization, rather than considering his performance, as an HR professional, I would suggest you take relevant legal action. Supporting this kind of fraud will only worsen the HR image in front of the entire organization and degrade the importance of education as a whole.
Regards,
Alpesh Palan
From India, Nasik
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Hi Hiren,
I agree with you. Yes, Ambani never looked at educational qualifications, but he gave jobs only to persons who admitted that they have no qualifications. He did not admit anybody who committed fraud or cheated his organization.
We had a case in our organization of someone who faked his MCA certificates. Our background verification takes 1 month to complete, but before this, he was sent to Onsite because of project demands. You know what? He scored 38 out of 40 on one of the toughest papers during his interview.
When we received the verification report, he was called back to India, issued a memo, asked for an explanation, and eventually sent a termination letter as he admitted his fraudulent actions. His passport was seized.
During his time onsite, we received 2 to 3 emails from his personal email address stating that people fake qualifications to join companies in India, but he got a job by falsifying information and came to London. In response, we sent him a legal notice. It was later discovered that the emails were not from him but from a friend who knew his login credentials.
After recovering the expenses incurred on his visa and travel, we returned his passport. Therefore, Gambhir, although it is late, it is high time to take action against this particular employee.
Priya
From India
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I agree with you. Yes, Ambani never looked at educational qualifications, but he gave jobs only to persons who admitted that they have no qualifications. He did not admit anybody who committed fraud or cheated his organization.
We had a case in our organization of someone who faked his MCA certificates. Our background verification takes 1 month to complete, but before this, he was sent to Onsite because of project demands. You know what? He scored 38 out of 40 on one of the toughest papers during his interview.
When we received the verification report, he was called back to India, issued a memo, asked for an explanation, and eventually sent a termination letter as he admitted his fraudulent actions. His passport was seized.
During his time onsite, we received 2 to 3 emails from his personal email address stating that people fake qualifications to join companies in India, but he got a job by falsifying information and came to London. In response, we sent him a legal notice. It was later discovered that the emails were not from him but from a friend who knew his login credentials.
After recovering the expenses incurred on his visa and travel, we returned his passport. Therefore, Gambhir, although it is late, it is high time to take action against this particular employee.
Priya
From India
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Dear Gambhir,
I wish to share my reaction with you on this issue. As far as the company is concerned, you remarked that he is an excellent and fantastic employee delivering value. This is the basic trait that is required when any individual, at whatever capacity he/she is inducted, should actually be doing. But sadly, we have numerous cases where individuals come with great degrees but add little value. In India, we give more importance to degrees rather than the ultimate value addition by an employee.
Now, from the employee's perspective, he is doing his best for the company and is getting paid for the same. He definitely lives with guilt and the fear of loss of face, and maybe eventually the job. Perhaps this factor is actually driving him to work harder and prove his mettle.
Lastly, what you could do is ask him in writing what made him take this course of action. Depending on his statement, perhaps the company can take an overall view and then decide. I disagree with the extreme view of immediately sacking him. As an HR person, your role is to take a holistic view of the matter.
Anand
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I wish to share my reaction with you on this issue. As far as the company is concerned, you remarked that he is an excellent and fantastic employee delivering value. This is the basic trait that is required when any individual, at whatever capacity he/she is inducted, should actually be doing. But sadly, we have numerous cases where individuals come with great degrees but add little value. In India, we give more importance to degrees rather than the ultimate value addition by an employee.
Now, from the employee's perspective, he is doing his best for the company and is getting paid for the same. He definitely lives with guilt and the fear of loss of face, and maybe eventually the job. Perhaps this factor is actually driving him to work harder and prove his mettle.
Lastly, what you could do is ask him in writing what made him take this course of action. Depending on his statement, perhaps the company can take an overall view and then decide. I disagree with the extreme view of immediately sacking him. As an HR person, your role is to take a holistic view of the matter.
Anand
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Hii Gambhir, I totally agree wth what Jeroo has suggested.I think HR’s in any organization should alwys be alert and take wise decision rather thn emotional decisions. Regards, Reema Sharma
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Dear Friend,
The employee does not deserve any lenient treatment. Inefficiency can be tolerated, but not dishonesty. However, even if he is efficient, he cannot be retained. By giving him an opportunity, we are setting a wrong precedent, and others will be encouraged to commit different types of fraud. At that time, the management cannot make a different decision, which will upset the organization. Moreover, by doing this, we are allowing a wrong culture to creep inside the organization.
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
The employee does not deserve any lenient treatment. Inefficiency can be tolerated, but not dishonesty. However, even if he is efficient, he cannot be retained. By giving him an opportunity, we are setting a wrong precedent, and others will be encouraged to commit different types of fraud. At that time, the management cannot make a different decision, which will upset the organization. Moreover, by doing this, we are allowing a wrong culture to creep inside the organization.
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