KK!HR
Management Consultancy
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Thread Started by #tvsunilongc

Sir,
Suppose a Vigilance Inquiry was conducted over an employee and enquiry report is prepared and disciplinary action and appeal department is recommended to take necessary action.
Suppose since 10 years no such disciplinary action and appeal case is registered /initiated / declared over the employee by the disciplinary action department .
Can any disciplinary action and appeal case that is any punishment can be initiated /registered/declared over such an employee after lapse of 10 years of conducting of the above inquiry and inquiry report.
What is the time period for taking disciplinary action against /on such an employee after the vigilance inquiry is completed and inquiry report is prepared.
sunil
6th March 2018 From India, New Delhi
There is no specified time limit fixed for initiating disciplinary action in the Conduct, Discipline Rules of PSUs but the principle is that the delay has to be reasonable and unavoidable otherwise the disciplinary action is vitiated. From the limited facts it appears you have a strong case for interference by the High Court as timely trial is held as a fundamental right under Article 21 of the Constitution. (See the principles of speedy trial in Hussainara Khatoon & Ors vs Home Secretary, State Of Bihar decided by the Supreme Court of India on 12 February, 1979, though it relates to criminal case, the same principles are attracted in departmental enquiry too). You may consult a Labour Law/Constitutional Law specialist.
6th March 2018 From India, Mumbai
Dear Mr. Sunil
The Central Vigilance Commission on dt. Dated : 18.01.2016 envisaged the time frame to complete the discpliniary action. Some references are given to adhere but in my suggestion consult a senior lawer for the purpose.
Subject: Timely completion of disciplinary proceedings/departmental inquiry proceedings-improving vigilance administration.
Ref: (i) Commissionís Circular No. 8(1)(g)/99(2) dated 19.02.1999. (ii) Commissionís Circular No. 8(1)(g)/99(3)dated 03.03.1999 (iii) Commissionís Circular No. 3(v)/99(7) dated 06.09.1999 (iv) Commissionís Circular No. 000/VGL/18 dated 23.05.2000 (vi) Commissionís Office Order No. 51/08/2004 dated 10.08.2004.
It is not prudent to spell anything as quite insufficient information provided by you. The case is of grave nature, you need consult a lawer as soon as possible with document and case history.
7th March 2018 From India, Mumbai
sir,
This is with respect to my case of 577 ONGC Term Base Employees during the year 2004 in which my name was at serial no 549..
The Case was filed during year 2004 and culminated/concluded during the year 2015. And the Labour court /Gujarat High Court and Supreme court has given order to make permanent and give re-joining to all the 577 ONGC term base employees which ONGC followed and issued permanent appointment order and given re-joining from January 2005 onwards to 518 ONGC term base employees.(577-518=59) 59 employees were left on account of resignation / death/ termination and other reason. In the 59 left out employees I was shown as terminated.
Initially all the 577 term base employees were taken on 4 year term base contract against 840 permanent sanctioned post which has been declared and proved at court and in the term base employment we were given all the facilities at PAR with regular employees . The court had declared that all the 577 term base employees were permanent employees and they were not term base employees or contract employees or casuals employees. All the 577 term base employees were recruited as per ONGC recruitment policy and procedure which the court had declared. so are permanent employees .
During the period December 2004 when the case was filed by 577 term base employees with the help of union at the labour court ONGC had discontinued the service of all the 577 term base employees on 31/12/2004 and during January 2005 conducted an interview of all 577 term base employees for taking us on purely tenure contract basis and all the employees were taken on tenure contract except few including me . My name was kept on hold from releasing for appointment on tenure contract after January 2005 interview, since during that period some one complaint that during term base employment I had made some wrong claim and during that period that is during December 2004 one informal inquiry was conducted on me and an inquiry report was prepared . But it is now 14 years(2018-2004) since the inquiry was conducted and inquiry report was prepared , till date no disciplinary action has been taken and ONGC has given me in writing that I was never terminated / I was never issued suspension letter / inquiry letter /charge sheet / show cause notice for any miss conduct fraud theft as such till date no disciplinary action / appeal case has been initiated / registered against me /taken/declared .
During the deliberation/discussion of the above case when the case was pending at labour court / Gujarat high court /supreme court ONGC had declared me as terminated without any documentary evidence .
In the RTI replies ONGC declared me as term completed .In another RTI reply ONGC has declared me that I did no got sufficient marks in the January 2005 interview so I was not selected. In another communication I was informed that I was found unsuitable by the interviewing committee during January 2005 inter view . In the RTI reply itself ONGC declared that I was never terminated. Again in another RTI reply ONGC declared that no disciplinary action has been taken on me and as such no record against me is available or exist in the disciplinary department.
My question is can ONGC can keep my case on hold on the issue of above informal inquiry and inquiry report over which no disciplinary action has been taken on me since it is 14 years (2018-2004). In this lapsed 14 years ONGC never raised the above matter in the court nor in the RTI. Our case was finalised during August 2015 .ONGC has declared me as terminated in the court from the beginning of case till the culmination of case without any evidence which ONGC has also declared in writing that I was never terminated , I was never issued suspension letter show cause notice and charge sheet disciplinary notice etc.In the RTI reply itself ONGC declared that I was never terminated. Again in another RTI reply ONGC declared that no disciplinary action has been taken on me and as such no record against me is available or exist in the disciplinary department.
kindly reply
sunil
7th March 2018 From India, New Delhi
ONGC has been shifting its stand every now and then and has been adopting irreconcilable position as regards your status. Since it is now taking a stand to initiate disciplinary action, you have sufficient grounds to challenge the action. As already suggested you may consult an expert in service matters for this purpose.
7th March 2018 From India, Mumbai
Sir
In your above reply you told that "Since it is now taking a stand to initiate disciplinary action"
On what basis you are stating the above statement that means you have some information from the ONGC about my case.
Since till now there is no sign or movement from the ONGC side regarding taking a stand to initiate disciplinary action against me. moreover there is no legality in raising disciplinary action against me and it will stand null void since in the court ONGC had never taken any permission from the court for terminating me nor informed the court about such a movement .
my question is since 14 years after the inquiry was conducted and inquiry report was prepared ONGC had never informed the court about such a inquiry and inquiry report and have not taken any permission from the court for terminating me from service based on any disciplinary action since no such disciplinary action was taken on me which ONGC itself have given me in writing that means that inquiry and inquiry report was a fake / forged /bogus/sham. moreover in the RTI ONGC had never informed me that I was not selected due to this above inquiry that means if the ONGC is raising the above inquiry does not that means ONGC is making mockery of RTI/ thus clearly / candidly / openly / bluntly / directly / straight-forwardly making mockery / contempt / disrespect and defying / flouting / disregarding / challenging / confronting / violating / contravening RTI (Right to Information) Act indirectly challenging Government of India .,
Moreover after such a long period of 14 years what is the validity / rationality / legitimacy / legality / authenticity / faithfulness/ truthfulness /fairness/ objectivity /neutrality / impartiality / accuracy / correctness / exactitude / reliability / precision / consistency / dependability / sensibleness / sagacity / prudence / wisdom / logic / merit / worth / judiciousness / meticulousness /practicality / persistence / conscientious /preciseness/ /thoroughness//correctness//diligence/ assiduousness / sedulousness / sedulity / assiduity/diligence of such a and over such a Vigilance Inquiry and Inquiry Report.
Based on the above stand of ONGC is there any possibility of ONGC taking/ raising the above inquiry matter as a reason for keeping my case on hold any further . doesn't it prove / disclose /uncovers / shows the irresponsibility / carelessness/ foolishness/Blunder / Elapse / Failure / Fiasco / Debacle / embarrassment / humiliation on the part of ONGC Senior Officials for making such irrelevant statements .
sunil
7th March 2018 From India, New Delhi
Dear Sunil,
The Apex court has given clear verdict to complete any inquiry within time frame of six month duration.
In this matter ONGC is doing mischiefs and playing with the life & future of the people. The main objective of PSU unit is for cattering the need of employment now seems they are completely against the objectives.
This is a matter to be challenged but take the help of a renowned lawer of this field practicing at High Court level. I think you are not only one in the matter, if possible arrange all other aspirants or victms of the case for fight.
7th March 2018 From India, Mumbai
sir
you replied that The Apex court has given clear verdict to complete any inquiry within time frame of six month duration.
But what is the time frame for taking disciplinary action against an employee after the inquiry procedure is over .
Here I was never issued from ONGC any warning memo / charge sheet/ show cause notice/ inquiry notice /suspension letter/ disciplinary letter / termination letter for any miss conduct bad conduct ill conduct fraud theft forgery etc.
I was called through a messenger boy/ peon and asked to meet one official and he asked me few questions and asked me to go. This informal inquiry (one cannot call it an inquiry ) was conducted during December 2004 and till now it is 14 years after conduction of above inquiry till date no communication regarding the outcome of this inquiry has been sent to me in this regard.
can it be called a vigilance inquiry can any disciplinary action can be initiated against me after lapse of 14 years and without following the proper vigilance inquiry procedure.
sunil
8th March 2018 From India, New Delhi
You mentioned enquiry was an informal enquiry.
Was it a preliminary fact finding enquiry?
The general rule is well-established that in a fact-finding inquiry, there is no person who is in the position of an accused or a defendant. The purpose of the inquiry is only to gather material for the information of the Government or the authority concerned. It is only if the material so gathered discloses a prima fade case against a person that a disciplinary inquiry would be held against him. In such a disciplinary inquiry, he would be in the position of a defendant or an accused and would be given a full opportunity to defend himself. Therefore, no question of giving such an opportunity of defending himself in a fact-finding inquiry arises at all.
You need to consult a local lawyer and discuss matter threadbare.
If reason to take up a legal stand arises after examination of known facts/documents then proceed by using RTI to get further information on your case.
8th March 2018 From India, Pune
sir
I have also used RTI way but till date they have not mentioned any thing about such an inquiry or any inquiry report .
ONGC also replied to me in RTI that I was not and never terminated from ONGC and till date no disciplinary action or appeal case or step has been declared initiated started recorded registered recommended against me.
All of a sudden in the last RTI reply ONGC CPIO sent me a copy of inquiry report with a forged/fake signature of mine over a statement .
pl tell what should I do.
sunil
8th March 2018 From India, New Delhi
Dear Sunil,
You are mixing-up the things. At present juntiure you are not an employee of ONGC. The vigilance inqiry was fixed while or pertaining to the period when you were part & parcel of the ONGC. To complete the inquiry/ frame cahrge sheet/ show cause/ any action is the work of ONGC, rather not of the employee. The lapse is lying with ONGC not with you. It is rather favourable for you to take the benfit out of the mistake done.
Instead of moving in other direction rather try to encash the oppurtunity by moving to court. Every action has equal and oposite reaction. Let the things happen in own accord. If any action is being initiated against you by ONGC to be challenged in court for an end result. They are not doing any action means they are lacking with the substances and dragging the time.
Move to court.
8th March 2018 From India, Mumbai
Sir,
Like you said above that At present juncture I am not an employee of ONGC.The preliminary vigilance inquiry was conducted during December 2004.To complete the inquiry/ frame charge sheet/ show cause/ issuing suspension letter any action is the work of ONGC, rather not of the employee.
My question is that's ONGC officials on realising their mistake and to correct their mistake as a precautionary measure to correct their mistake can they now issue me the above documents like inquiry notice / charge sheet/ show cause notice / suspension letter after the gap of 14 years of initial inquiry for completing the above vigilance inquiry inspite of knowing that I am not an employee of ONGC now.
cant we say that initial inquiry was a fake forged one since 14 years have passed (2018-2004)
sunil
8th March 2018 From India, New Delhi
They will not be able to justify this delay.
You need to consult a lawyer for best advice,as you have some serious apprehension about the whole thing.
8th March 2018 From India, Pune
Sir,
What is the procedure for conducting and completing a vigilance complaint . what are the steps involved from the initial preliminary inquiry till the final decision involving termination steps or other final disciplinary action .
kindly tell me
sunil
8th March 2018 From India, New Delhi
http://ccis.nic.in/WriteReadData/Cir...dbook-2013.pdf
A reading of this link will give you a general idea.
8th March 2018 From India, Pune
Dear Sunil,
You or me or any common man can't declare the action of employer is right or wrong. The court is the only istitution to held one, wrong or right. It is not understood why you again & again come to a track which is not your's.
Our subjective/objective/theoritical/ assumption/presumption/ apprehension on the matter worth nothing, unless untill it have the seal of the court.
9th March 2018 From India, Mumbai
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