Saswatabanerjee
Partner - Risk Management
Anil.arora
Administration Head
Bodhisutra
Manager, Operations
Hardeep
Scalper :-)
Ngurjar
Management Consulting, Management Development,
Inspiredsoumya
Marketing(trainee)
Cite Contribution
Community Manager
Raj Kumar Hansdah
Shrm, Od, Hrd, Pms
Consultme
Entrepreneur
Kishore.Mavuri
Group Leader - Quality Management & Process
Bmadhu
Assistant Manager
+5 Others

#Anonymous

My Case:

In 200x, I got an admission to Xxxxxxx Institute of management. Based on the admission letter, I was given \'Leave Without Pay\' considering my consistent performance in XXX (Co. name). It gave me a positive support and I was always considering to join back XXX Co.

In 201x, When I heard seats were increased in IIM’s I pursued and was successful to get admission to Indian Institute of Management - X, one of the premier institutes. As a result my total study period has extended to 3 years.

On the due date (20 July 201x) of joining back to XXX Co., letters were sent to my home and as I was pursuing my PGDBM at IIM X (Attached degree certificate as a proof), I could not come down to Chennai and initiate my resignation or report back.

As per XXX Co. policy they have dismissed me and as I was pursuing my education in Xxxxxxx (Instt.), I have sent a letter (through my father) requesting for extension of my leave without pay but was later replied with denial. I was ignorant to send an e-mail to initiate my resignation process.

Even after completing my post-graduation from a premier institute, I am finding it difficult to get a job because dismissed employees are not encouraged anywhere. My career is in a jeopardy..

Now I understand the value of being responsive in a hard way, it is only because of my academic pressure and ignorance has caused this error.

I request you to please help reverse my dismissal on humanitarian grounds Sir.

I wanted to know whether a reversal of dismissal is a possibility?

If possible in what grounds??

[Moderator's note : Post has been edited for brevity; and Names have been changed to protect the identity of the person, institute and company]
29th November 2012 From India, Delhi
It may not be dismissal.it must be a simple termination. From XXX side, they have sent you communication about your re-joining on the date of expiry of your study leave.Having not heard from you, they must have terminated your services.Simple termination will not be a stigma for re-emloyment technically. You hav etwo options left, in my view.
1) Approach XXX and plead with them to condone a lapse in procedural compliance and pary for treating it as acase of resignation, having regard to your long career ahead. You need to strike a communication with XXX.
2) Explian and convince a prospective employer about the circumstances that led to the termination and that it is not out of any performance related or conduct related issues but is teh result of non-communication.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law advisor
Mumbai
30th November 2012 From India, Mumbai
For someone with an IIM degree, no employer will bother with the fact that you were terminated for not rejoining at a time when you were half way through your education
What makes you think this is going to effect your job prospects
30th November 2012 From India, Mumbai
If you want to join XXX itself, then consider going there and talking to the HR Manager directly and try to convince them with the situations you were facing during the leave and the reasons for not joining back and apologize. If they are okay, you can re-apply. If they don't make sure you get the details of the termination in hard copy so that you can furnish it and prove your innocence in other cos.
Else, as my fellow member said , being an IIM Degree holder, you will not find it difficult as u had a valid reason you were not able to rejoin them and go for other opportunities
Best wishes
30th November 2012 From India, Kochi
#Anonymous
Thank you Sir, I have communicated the same but neither of them are considerate enough because they believe company policy is above all and I respect it. I am only pleading them. Currently I got a campus placement with a bank (Nth largest private bank) but they are very strict and asking me to resign from the job.
I have explained them and I have also made them to talk with xxx HR. On what grounds can I plead them? How can I save my job?
30th November 2012 From India, Delhi
Make sure you have written communications with XXX Co.. Also, you got the Job in a private bank and thats good.
You can write the resignation mail to HR with a return receipt.
Also being IIM Degree holder.. you would get better job opportunities..
All the Best for your future.
30th November 2012 From India, Mumbai
When you got admission to IIM, you should have requested XXX for Study Leave extension.
For you, it is very important to pursue a degree from IIM and at the same time, for XXX, it could be commitment to their customer(s).
So what best HR @ XXX can do?
1. Get you on job ASAP
2. Grant you unconditional study leave for some more period
3. Terminate you and hire another resource (As you know, most of the knowledge companies run on PEOPLE POWER)
My suggestion is just forget it and concentrate on your next job. Who has given you this idea "Even after completing my post-graduation from a premier institute, I am finding it difficult to get a job because dismissed employees are not encouraged anywhere". Continue your search and very soon you can find a suitable job
If you don't mind, share your latest resume with and CTC here. Also mention, what sort of profile, you are looking at now.
30th November 2012 From India, Bangalore
#Anonymous
Thank you Sir/Mam,
Currently I have a campus placement with a bank (xth largest private bank) but they are very strict and asking me to resign from the job. I have communicated the same to XXX and my current employer but neither of them are considerate enough because they believe company policy is above all and I respect it. I am only pleading them.
I have explained them and I have also made them to talk with XXX HR. On what grounds can I plead them? How can I save my job?
30th November 2012 From India, Delhi
Even after talking to your XXX HR, If they are in the same ground of asking you to resign, then there is no other option is what i feel. Any management will follow their company rules first, if their policy doesn't allow them to take a candidate who was terminated from the previous company regardless of whatever reasons it may be, then there will be no point of you pleading or convincing them as they will not change.
Try looking for other opportunities as well. Before you join in any company make sure you tell them, the fact in order to avoid such circumstances .
You are a proved professional, your hard work will definitely lead u to success.
30th November 2012 From India, Kochi
#Anonymous
I appreciate everyone who have replied to my query.
Can anyone suggest me, How can save my current Job with my current employer?
I have been honest enough to share all the information, yet I am facing this issue. Is there any value for honesty in this society anymore.
30th November 2012 From India, Delhi
You need to confirm the reason to your current employer. If you have any written communications of XXX.. do share with them.
Or else you can ask the current co. to have a reference check done on you...
30th November 2012 From India, Mumbai
#Anonymous
Dear All,
Can I ask my previous employer (who has dismissed me based on not reporting back on sabbatical) to reverse my dismissal based on the below reasons
1. Requesting to condone/forgive my act as a lapse in procedural compliance and pary for treating it as a case of resignation, having regard to my long career ahead. (Given my Sai Sir)
2. whether the employee disobedience was willful, deliberate, or contumacious, rather than an act of neglect or inexperience.
Can anyone give some more legal reasons ?
30th November 2012 From India, Delhi
Why will a company as you to resign due to your termination at previous job 3 years ago before you got 2 additional degrees. Did u hide some information when u joined this job ?
30th November 2012 From India, Mumbai
#Anonymous
The HR told me that "Bank’s policy states that employee with history of dismissal cannot be recruited". I am not hiding any facts.
30th November 2012 From India, Delhi
manage for a written proof from XXX, stating the HR of XXX the actual cause that ur current employer have told you to resign and its hampering ur career.. .just go and have face-face and polite talk with the HR and anyhow get a written proof from them..its now on how u convince them..if ur relations were good in XXX as a employee ..defiantly they will provide you the proof on the ground of termination, and not dismissal
30th November 2012 From India, Solapur
#Anonymous
Thank you Apurwa..
I doing the same and XXX is contemplating to do something. Can you tell me some legal terms by which a dismissal can be reversed or the status can be changed? So that It does not affect my career.
30th November 2012 From India, Delhi
I think that joining one institute and then jumping on to another without informing your employer was an immature thing to do
The next best thing to do will be to use all the knowledge and skills you got at IIM to either convince XXX or Your Bank
If you cant do either of these then, my friend find another job without hiding any facts
30th November 2012 From India, Chennai
write an email to them apologizing for the things and have a face- face interaction stating "not to term as dismissal" ...rest legal things to comply with ..frankly speaking i dnt know that much details abt it
30th November 2012 From India, Solapur
After going through your complete case and all the responses, very first thing I would like to say that you must not take any action in bewilderment or rush or without considering the situation and also must not be careless with the things in life that you did here.

Well now can you please share your Appointment Letter provided by your present employer?

See it doesn’t matter what company policy they have or not, the terms defined under an appointment letter can definitely help you. Your appointment letter with present employer is really important because both the Employers are talking about “Company Policies”, therefore, I would like to know what terms of employment used in it in this regard. Also i would like to know if it is any clause in appointment letters that treat it a violation of company rule and you can be terminate if found with this kind of situation or previous dismissal, if yes, could be a problem for you. Although, I accept that company policies are above to all but they cannot so easily deny or overrule the terms defined in your employment letter (Present Employer)

In addition, I request you to clarify the following points

-You got admission with Barathidasan Institute of Management in 2009 and took leave for your studies, so it means you were working with XXX at that time and allowed to continue your study and join them back until 20 July 2011?

-you granted "Leave Without Pay" on a mutual request/understanding or had any written permission from XXX?

-Plesae share if you have documentation in this regard and also your offer/appointment letter with XXX

-You informed them that you were not able to join them back, it is accepted,but have you ever resigned?

(I guess you never resigned because you were busy in study and lately realized when you found dismissal letter and started looking for solution)

-And, if you resigned, do you have any correspondence with them in this regard?

-You said that XXX decline your request to grant you more "Leave Without Pay", do you have any correspondences in this regard, if yes please share.

And

-When you joined your present employer?

-When, what, how and why you disclose your previous dismissal to them?

-What exactly your present HR people are saying, and the current development in this case.

-If you still have not resigned from your current position, I suggest you to please do not do so and let them take the action whatever they want

Your Mistakes:

-Your biggest mistake that you were unprofessional and too honest.

(Yes, still there is a value of Honesty, Sincerity in our Society but one must not forget that our society where we are living is a developing world where the things, culture, perception, ideology and everything are undergoing many changes. One needs to be more professional and wise with every action in this regard)

-Second, you allowed both the employer to talk to each other, was your another big mistake that you were not supposed to do.

Please furnish the details. Also i request you to please compile all these details and your case as in a "Case Study" with a word format that will certainly help you and other with many things in future.
30th November 2012 From India, Gurgaon
#Anonymous
Thank you for your response.
Your were right in what have you mentioned. I accept my mistake but what I need to know is whether a dismissal can be reversed? on what grounds?
I have no issues sharing few more documents. But can I do that in Private. Please share your mail id and a small brief about who you are and what you do?
Sorry I am asking this but it is an open forum. Please understand.
30th November 2012 From India, Delhi
#Anonymous
Sorry Mr. Anil, I just found out that you are the board moderator. Can you share your mail Id please. I am not sure whether I can share those documents in public.
30th November 2012 From India, Delhi
Hi, if you are not comfortable in sharing these details here, I respect your decision and you can contact me by visiting my profile and Contacts
30th November 2012 From India, Gurgaon
I just wanted to bring in some words of caution here :

- Some suggest that being from a premiere Institute just forget this and you will get a company to take you. Sorry doesn't work that way. I may be from Harvard but if I am a Harvard educated fraud and found out, no one will touch me even with a BIIIG pole !

- The essence of your case is that you did not join back your employer on an agreed date, neither asked them/ get from them an extension. Logically, they would start abandonment and dismissal proceedings. But again, generally, there are warnings given before hand. Were they given ? If not, you may have some points to tell them to gracefully consider.

- Your employment record with XXX is in your admission records with various institutes and in your biodata which you submitted to your present employer . You can not, now, just wipe it off and forget it. And the record of how you left / were dismissed will remain with XXX unless a senior level action takes it off.

- Getting involved into legalese will, IMHO, not get you anywhere since the fault is with you. Only recourse you may have is to get the HR on your side and then, via them, approach someone who is high up the ladder there to get your dismissal converted into a resignation. A parallel similar action could be with your present employer. If both these do not work to the point you are told to leave, that would, perhaps, be the point to get into stronger legal options.

I am just curious here ..was there a Bond with XXX ? Why could you just not serve them a notice and / or give Notice Pay in lieu of if demanded and close the case properly , in time ?

You are between a rock and hard place my friend ! Hope everything turns out well for you.
4th December 2012 From United States, New York
#Anonymous
There were warnings sent to my home, when I was in Lucknow. XXX has done as per procedure. I am doing the same.. Requesting both the companies HR for considering on humanitarian grounds. I don't have any bond with XXX.
My question is "Can company reverse a dismissal?, if possible on what grounds?"
4th December 2012 From India, Delhi
Well there are many obvious .. if they want to help you, a "misplaced" letter could be found after you give them a "copy" of the same. Case closed.
4th December 2012 From United States, New York
#Anonymous
XXX being SAP system driven HR system. How can they help me?
Being a bigger organization, companies ego also comes to place.
Currently they are just giving a letter stating the reason for dismissal "as a procedure we follow her at XXX and there are no conduct issues". Will that work with the private bank?
4th December 2012 From India, Delhi
My friend, all I can say is that nothing in this life - and particularly in bits and bytes of information - is written in stone :-)
Ask them to suggest you a way out ...maybe they have something. If they want to help....
Or, your present employer could / should take a more understanding view. After all, it is not as if you have caused a financial loss to anyone due culpable conduct. If you want, talk to me on 9810290988
Best
4th December 2012 From United States, New York
I still find it weird that you did your degree at IIMx, are finding it tough to get a job and are really keen to rejoinXXX.
Convincing new employers that your "dismissal" was not because of some fraud or felony you did would be far easier than getting XXX to revoke your "dismissal".
In any case, you can get an entry level job and your pre-degree dismissal on a technical ground would really not bother many.
Are you sure you are not getting a job because of this technical "dismissal" or is the problem somewhere else?
5th December 2012 From India, Delhi
#Anonymous
Hi Bodhisutra,
Appreciate your message.
I am yet to deep dive into job hunting but have tried few companies and it is difficult to convert when I am moving from the current job within 6 months and with my history of dismissal. Trust me IIM degree are generic these days with 450 people passin out of each IIM's. With great difficulty I got to my present job in a Bank.
Do suggest me how to apply for jobs in this competitive world with 18000 MBA's passing out each year? I am trying via Naukri, IIMjobs.com and through referrals by friends.
Thanks and regards,
Xxxx Xxxxxx
5th December 2012 From India, Delhi
#Anonymous
No Sir.
XXX has accepted to give a letter but no change in the status of dismissal. The current employer (Private Bank) is waiting for XXX letter. XXX is giving some lame reason like their mail service is not working and all for the last 2 days.
Can you give me the format of these kind of letter given by the employer?
5th December 2012 From India, Delhi
XXX has agreed to give the letter to require, I wonder to why and what for you waiting, WHY NOT COLLECT THE LETTER IN PERSON? WHY ARE YOU WAITING FOR XXX TO SEND THE LETTER? "Don't wait for someone to bring you the food, GO SET IT YOURSELF !"
GOOD LUCK.
6th December 2012 From India, Bangalore
The last conversation which you left with XXX-HR on? verbal or non-verbal communication-which you have any correspondence? Regards, Viswa
6th December 2012 From India, Nellore
Please make sure that you communicate with your company frequently .You need not worry for this ,gain some experience and go for it .Moreover you have completed your Education from IIM which is a great advantage for you.If you feel like joining in XXX then talk with the HR and come down to a solution .Don't spent too much time in thinking of loosing.Try something new and better.When you keep on doing this it effect your self confidence :)
God Bless
Regards
Soumya
11th December 2012 From India, Chennai
I think your case has very limited options. And I think your evaluation of potential damage was a little off the mark.

Will XXX support you?

There is little incentive to support you at this stage.

- Have you been in touch with your supervisor during your stay in IIM?

- Has anyone from your team been in touch with you?

- Did you connect with them stating that you would like to rejoin XXX once the course was over?

- Do you have any references from XXX to help you work around this case?

These factors might help you reach the circle of influence of the HR; though it cannot be decisive.

My gut feeling is that you need to let this go and look for another job. I don't think IIMx would help you as well. And with the firm diktat from the HR of the Bank, I doubt you will ever enter that organization because they are probably making an example out of you! So, start looking elsewhere (maybe off-campus if your Placement Office isn't prepared to consider your candidature right now).

Unfortunately, this is hard to shove-off from where you are right now. The more you stir it, the larger its gonna get! So, I would suggest that you try for some contract positions rather than some corporate positions. As a MBA, you should be like water, able to flow around rocks. Think of your strengths and options. That might help you.

Reg,

Nikhil
11th December 2012 From United States, Daphne
#Anonymous
Thank you every one for giving me suggestion and support.
Being a Xxxx compnay (know far its values), XXX is kind enough to accept my request and has changed the status from "Dismissal" to "Stopped attending service".
I am not understanding this terminology. Can some one please explain the term 'Stopped attending service'?
12th December 2012 From India, Delhi
After going through the entire thread, I have understood that, whatever XXX could have done on fair basis, they have infact done already. There were few short-comings from your side. I still am wondering to find the reason why you haven't resigned the moment you got an admission in xIM and atleast when u got admitted to IIMx. Both are prestigious and you could easily get into top Organization directly from these institutes; however you have chosen to continue your employment with XXX (they would have happily accepted you if you wanted to join them again post completion of ur PGDM). Secondly, you could have informed your prospective employer about whatever happened before their offer; or even you could have simply negated your previous employment details. (being too honest sometimes lands you in trouble - professionally & personally too).

Anyway, this was all past and can't be rewritten. So, bother not and persuade the new employer to buy your concern (coz, be it a termination or dismissal or even a proper resignation, the new employer needn't to worry anything as long as your employment file with XXX is closed). The only reason for companies to put such policies is, it is utmost illegal/unethical/noncompliance to work parallely with 2 different registered Companies and it may lead to many legal issues to both Companies.

The new tag for your employment with XXX, "Stopped Attending Services" is going to be worrisome for you more now as it clearly means, you still are employed with XXX (your employment agreement still hold good); however, you have abandoned them. Which means your employment file is still open. The previous tag of 'Dismissal' was much helpful in this regard. Plz talk to XXX people directly (a face-face discussion is very much helpful) and may be you can take the help of your Manager who approved your Long-Leave (boss who Managed you directly during your stint with XXX).

All the very best and hope all your probs get sorted out.

Regards,

Kishore Mavuri
12th December 2012 From India, Hyderabad
Kishore has rightly analysed your shortcomings in the whole episode and you could have very well avoided this agony.However my interpretation of the word "stopped attending services' is somewhat different from that of Kishore.It means you have on your own chosen not to attend work at XXX and thus voluntarily abondoned the job and it is not XXX which terminated your services.Thus it is free from the stigma dismissal and termination from XXX side and at the same time, it is you on your own brought the end to the relationship.It is a win-win situation. If they give you the relieving letter even with this remark it would suggest that you are no longer on the rolls of XXX.
B.Saikumar
Mumbai
13th December 2012 From India, Mumbai
#Anonymous
Thank you Sai and Kishore for taking time to analyze my case and giving your opinion. It is little comforting. I understood my mistake but late. I am just looking for some relief from this issue.
In the process, I learnt it is important to be persuasive, calm and confident.
13th December 2012 From India, Delhi
Greeting,
Very glad to know you are out of the woods. 'Stopped attending services' directly fits the sabbatical you took. Hence, please don't worry about this any further . Wish you all the best for a bright an prosperous career !
13th December 2012 From India, Mumbai
NOT necessarily.
In fact, its a MORE APPROPRIATE and humane word.
No wonder, XXX or other IT/ITES use it as they deal with intelligent and highly educated employees.
The old usual term of ABSCONDING which has come from the old Personnel and Labour management; which dates back to the Colonial Times; where workers were referred to as COOLIES or later on as KHALASIS. If a worker left job, it would be called as ABSCONDING; just like in army its called DESERTED.
I think times have changed and HR should keep up with the times. One should accept "Stopped Attending Services" and recognize it as a standard term for Employees leaving the organization of their own accord and volition.
Warm regards.
15th December 2012 From India, Delhi
Raj,
I was thinking from a different point of view
When it goes to a hr dept of a company, what will they think ?
If it came to me, I would look at it and say : hmmm this guy left without notice and without handover and not relieved. I would automatically reject it unless its far better than other options. Or if ther is an over riding reason to consider him for the job
Whether u call it absconding or give it a finer name, I am sure hr looks abd knows what's happened
In this particular case he may be able to explain. But most of the time the person does not get a chance to explain as hr does screening bases on docs it gets. It rarely asks for any explanation at that stage
15th December 2012 From India, Mumbai
Well Saswat, that's what I actually mean !!

At least we HR should become sensitive and progressive to understand such issues.. of individual differences, individual choices etc.

Apart from the case given here, there are people, who on account of certain ideological or emotional issues, or personal tragedies or growth and development purpose, can leave the organization.

When an employer has the right to HIRE n FIRE an employee at his PLEASURE; don't you think equality and natural justice demand that an employee should have an equal right; without going in through the rigmarole of all the HR processes and internal self-made procedures.

Also, in a developed world there are privacy issues involved. I hope you are aware that before embarking on a Background Check, good companies see written permission from the prospective employee that he has no objection.

If his ex-employer are certifying then "Stopped Attending Services" should be accepted as a good enough and fair reason and should be accepted as such; no further questions asked. It is time we, the people in HR should evolve and treat people with respect and not as potential ex-convicts.



Warm regards.
15th December 2012 From India, Delhi
On any day it is a better remark than 'dimissal' or 'termination' and the relieving letter denotes that the comapny has accepted the employee's option/choice to leave the company.
B.Saikumar
Mumbai
15th December 2012 From India, Mumbai
Exactly dear Saikumar !!!
And I could not agree with you more. (Cite Contribution), who has got considerable experience in IT companies, also finds it acceptable. I hope in future the term "Stopped attending services" gains currency (esp. where the term "äbsconding" or "dismissal" is used).
HR should not cloud an ex-employees' future; rather always provide at least a glimmer of hope.
Warm regards..
15th December 2012 From India, Delhi
Dear Rajkumar
I am on the same page with you when you said the word 'stopped attending services' gains currency among employers as a substitute for 'absconding' or 'dismissal' at least in cases which are genuine as it would offer a win-win situation both to the employee and the employer and at least the HR professionals who are memebers of Citehr will adopt this practice.
B.Saikumar
HR & labour Law Advisor
Mumbai
1)
16th December 2012 From India, Mumbai
In my point of view, Be positive and Be confident because, If you lost everything.., you can start life from 'O' based stage. Think twice before do everything. Thank you. lvnarasimha
22nd January 2013 From India, Hyderabad
#Anonymous
Hi All,
Thanks every one for the timely support.
The current employer has confirmed my employment owing to the change in status ("Stopped attending service") by XXX but with a caveat that any future misconduct would be taken seriously without any mercy.
They have warned me not to share any information, so that, no one quotes my case for any future reference. Please don’t share any personal information (like name of the company, my name) with others.
Thanks.
23rd January 2013 From India, Delhi
Add Reply Start A New Discussion

Cite.Co - is a repository of information created by your industry peers and experienced seniors. Register Here and help by adding your inputs to this topic/query page.
Prime Sponsor: TALENTEDGE - Certification Courses for career growth from top institutes like IIM / XLRI direct to device (online digital learning)





About Us Advertise Contact Us
Privacy Policy Disclaimer Terms Of Service



All rights reserved @ 2019 Cite.Co™