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Hi all,
Hope all my citehr friends are doing fine.........
here iam with another issue to discuss this is with my new organisation.
There is one employee who is married, has kids too but is involved in affair with a guy in the same department, but management has no issues pertaining to her performance, and infact she even works on holidays if required....
Management has no issues with her personal life but now that the team mates have a very unpleasant opinion, and has to say the environment is getting polluted ..........
do you think management has to take any decision on her......
can you please suggest..
From India, Hyderabad
The management should immediately take action against such type of things.it pollutes the whole environment.
From India, Delhi
Hi Ravi shankar
Yes it is definitely bad..iam very new to this type of culture...i have heard of her affair as a "grapevine"... (gossip around)though i have seen them moving together lot of times........i donot want to jump into conclusion.
Iam wondering why the employees of their department/TL are not giving any complaint against her/without any complaint from them do you think management has to involve in this matter......
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Sari,
From an organization point of view, we are not suppose to involve in any body's business or personal matter until and unless their act makes circumscriptions. Any employee should have the ethics on to professional performance. If he/she crosses the limit, you shall issue an warning letter on to the behavioral ethics of the same.
Again don't write a letter or anything until and unless we know the clear picture. You shall also have a counseling session with the same employee and shall advice her on to the behavioral issues the management has or the team has.
From India, Bangalore
Thanks Mahr ..for your inputs :)
Hi Ravi........i have joined new org after my maternity leave...in feb and to absorb and adapt to new environment it took some time....thats the reason you have seem me back with only problems again....
Dont worry i shall come back with a bang in humor section very soon :)
From India, Hyderabad
Dear sari ,

i think you should talk to her before taking any rash action against her . As you told he is good enough at work . I think its need less to tel her husband or kids about her affair this will ruin her life as wel . First of all you have to know what exactly curcumstances she is facing as far as her personal life concern .May be circumstances forced her to take such unethical step . she is Woman so you should think about her future also as you know in our society men can do whatever they want but not woman, its really disgusting as far as our siociety concern. You cant judge her personal life ,may be she need support what she didn't get from her hubby or may be he has some extra marital affair . who knows so please you should talk to her in person . and i want to ask those wo are creebing about her relationship in your office , whether they are clean enough to object her ?..whether they didn't have any unethical or extramarital relationship ?...

Thanks...

Mangesh ...

HR Manager
From India, Pune
Dear Sari,
I agree with Mahr, leagally you cannot take an action on employee on the basis of the grapevine news. So please refrain from any knee jerk reaction now . Keep a close watch on thier productivity and decision making skills. generally when employee gets into such affairs, they get influenced . Act only when you have a solid proof of thier behaviour that is affecting the company , business of the company or the client .Please do not breed any discussion before you land up with the proof .Till then happy observing !
Regards,
(Cite Contribution)
From India, Mumbai
Dear Sari,
I am 100% agree with Mangesh views. You should talk to her & analysis the situation before reaching to any conclusion. Taking an immediate action, without knowing the facts is not a right decision, as this is effecting not one but more than one levies.
Regards
From India, Mumbai
I thought this issue sorted itself. Revisiting the issue, is it an intra-office affair ? Does she gain any mileage out of it ? The management has no issue with her performance, she even works on non-working days. This attitude of 'holier-than-thou' attitude of her so-called colleagues is uncalled for. Also do we know the real part of spouse's side. All conjectures!!

Firstly does anyone have any proof to what legally constitutes extra-marital affair. The person concerned knows what she may be getting into and how far one can go and the associated risks-she knows the risk. On the other hand, Is she using office resources or time to be happy in what is being termed as extra-marital affair. For the 'colleagues' it may be a case of sour grapes.

I suggest that if no office protocol/rule is broken nor office resources involved in what this person wants to do (and be happy and in the bargain make others jealous) just leave it till you have tangible proof of the same.

I would also add and am sorry to say that you may be wasting your organization's time and resources pursuing this unless it is part of you enhanced role and responsibilities
From India, Mumbai
Dear Ravishankar,
Sending the letter to her husband and kids is not a matter but this should give heavy impact to her family, if the incident is true then also you donít send the letter to her family. This is not a singly person problem this will affect their family too... please take her for counseling session and try to teach her human ethics.
HR man should always thing about surroundings of every employee personal life also...
Regards
Mahi
From India, Pune
Hi sari,
Don't follow the stupid ideas of issuing warning letters, sending letter to her hubby/kids which will not only aggravate the situation but may lead to legal
action against your company as you cannot produce proof for these things.
As long as it is nothing to do with her performance (even then you cannot
do anything, just you can counsel her) please leave the issue as it is.
As long as they do not indulge in objectionable activities in the office, which will definitely affect the co-workers, you cannot take action against them.
From India, Madras
Dear all,
Read ur suggestions,
But tell me one thing What r we concern with Performance or personal life?
For a company its employee should work well, show his/her performance,give production, innovation, work efficiently.....What the company has to do with her personal life. that is her life & she is mature enough to think what is right or wrong. As truely said it might be grapevine also.
Yes if she is utilising company's time in gossiping,or romaning around, chatting than it can be matter of concern.else,
everyone has its own life & can live in his or her own way....
Still if u feel it is wrong personally councell her....
leave the matter after some time u will find another such new gossip i.e, someone else's affair...
Regards,
Hansa Vyas
From India, Udaipur
Hi Dear,
i think is so bad activity, because i have also handled two case in my previous organization. You can told to her directly, if you are ready to work with this organization than you have to maintain the office culture otherwise we will send a letter to your family.
that is depend only on you, how can you handle the situation.
Regards
Amrish Singh Raghuwanshi
Executive- HR
CUMI, Jabalpur
Contact- 9827071872, 9755559064
From India, Bhopal
How confident you are that they are having affair? They may be close friends. And why the lady only be punished? As far as office
decorum is maintained it's their personal matter and you have no right to take any action and hence there is no need of punishment.

Regards,

Rajesh Menezes
From India, New Delhi
Dear Hansa ,
Really matured thought . Everyone should think in the same way only. think in a profeesional way . if her perfomance affect then only its matter of concern.
So its a sensitive matter , so has to handle with care . Stupid or scurry decision may devastate more than one life like informing her family etc etc ..
Regards..
Mangesh
From India, Pune
Hi Sari,
I went through most of the comments posted,but I feel its better you try to find out who is involved in it as in who actually started it;you have mentioned she is a top performer and I dont know no. of years of experience she has,if she is senior then may be the guy is taking advantage of her position in the company.
Suggestion:shift him to the other department or different working hours keep a track on the behaviour, if he hooks up with another lady, then definately he has to be questioned.
she might be married what about the guy??have you seen the case from various dimensions?What might have forced her to get into extra marital affair???The guy may be at fault.so before taking any decision analyze from all angles then if she is not at a fault you co. will be loosing a top performer.
Think it over.
From India, Bangalore
My first comment would be that one needs to be careful about grapevine. Very often rumours are unfounded and cause much harm to people's reputation. In any case, the real issue should remain around performance. If someone's behaviour or attitude constitute a hindrance to his/her performance then you have grounds to take action. Otherwise you may unfairly sanction an employee. I would have a chat with the employee, stating that what she does remains her own decison but her behaviour is generating gossip and that is distracting the team from doing its work. She therefore needs to be careful and manage her personal behaviour.
From Mauritius
Hi Sari,



Please understand things clearly to handle this situation.



* HR will not intervene in her personal matter

There are many reaons for that, like:

- It is her personal life and her own decision.

-This may not be true (I mean has she herself declared that she has an extra marital affair???? Or even if, it is none of HR's business. Just because she is is seen taking breaks with another man does not mean she has an affair, I am sure most of the people who talk such things dont have a base to their comments)



* Because your staff is conservative and if they observe a behaviour from an employee that they are not able to take in the right perspective, its their problem, still as this will can take the focus of the team in another direction, that is, the team will devote more time discussing her than doing the work given to them, what you can do is to talk to the concerned employee, The conversation with that employee will not have anything to do with her decision of getting into a relationship, but how people around are and the importance of the quote "when in Rome do as the Romans do", while she may say that she does not care about such people, Her caring is not required to put these guys straight or to teach them a lesson but to ensure the focus does not drift anywhere but work.



* You can only ask her understanding of the matter, if she is a good performer and is a team player, she can keep doing what makes her happy, but keep it to herself and ensure no one gets to see/talk about anything.



* It is against the dignity of a woman to be asked about an extra marital even if she has any and no one in the company has the right to question an emplyee on decisions in their personal lives.



* I rubbish the idea of sending letters to her husband or children. This as rightly said by a friend about can potentially spoil her life forever.



* None of us can understand the real thing, it may be right may be not, if its not right, we should forget, if it is right, circumstances she is going through must have cause it to happen, and only she knows her circumstances.



Sari, I would urge you to take a well thought out step in this case, as this involves sentiments/dignity/threat to leves of the employee, husband, children and the family.



Being an HR person who is employed by the company, you only work for the company and what is the things that stop employee performance, if her perfomance is not good, you can question her on performance and try to improve it by finding with factors affecting the performance and even if it is her personal life, all you can advise is to keep a balance between work and personal life.



But if other are not able to work because they see someone's extra marital, I guess there is some serious issue with them, they should rather be councelled as they are lost focus/directionless/loose-tongue/insensitive people who need to get a life and, the reason I say that is that in this case we have a male employee of the same organization who is also involved and they make no fuss about him... Why talk only about a woman... ???????



Please stop morale policing......



People raising the questions here are the real cause of the problem... They should be more active in their work and should not be concerned about peoples lives...



Regards,

Gagan
From United States, Irvine
Hello Sari,
Management will not have problem till they faces any issue in their process. Being professional you should not think about anyone's personal life and environment is getting polluted because everyone are concentrating on her personal life, so my suggestion is " Concentrate on your own career and see how it can help you to grow in the organisation, thinking about anyone's life is not fruitful and " Being a woman you should see another side too, men are allowing her to have an affair then whats her fault, No one keeps relationship without permission.
All the best for your career and concentrate on your future other than anyone's life"
Thanks and Regards
Ashwini
From United States, Lincolnshire
It is amazing how the total responsibility and criticism is directed only at the woman and the person with whom she is alleged to be having an affair is not held responsible.
From India, Mumbai
Why are so unduly concerned about something which is a very personal matter. So long as the their adventure is not affecting their work performance and so long as they are not doing something unacceptable or obscene at the work place, why bother.
Moreover have you received any complaints from either party?
Let the two be. Let them mind their own business.
If at all you wish to take disciplinary action against the concerned duo, what evidence do you have to prove their misdemeanour?
Please do not jump the gun and let people be, if all is well, otherwise.
Will you take action against someone who, despite having a wife waiting at home, preferes to eat out with friends?
Suggestions of writing letters to the family etc...are ridiculuos. Please refrain from such avoidable "adventures".
Vasant Nair
From India, Mumbai
Hi Friends,
I think here HR role must play an imp and positive towards organisation. If they forget ethics, collegues, superiors then its right time to interfere and discuss with them. But strict proof like written complaint from other colleagues and many more like such is compulsory to discuss further. If you dont have any such clues with proof then better be calm, even if you think you need to discuss without proof you will be under pressure. Management will not co-operate you. And here management may not aware of seriousness of such acts or impact of such acts in their business trend. We need to discuss and project the seriousness and future consequences too. then they may also start thinking.
I also appreciate the advice given by our friends, every advice has its importance please follow every point. Reason being its an delicate issue.
Thanks
Kalasarvam
From India, Secunderabad
Please ascertain the facts of the 'affair' prior to making assumptions that this is indeed happening.
Office gossip tends to blow friendship into affairs causing pain and emotional damage.
If there is an affair and it is effecting the work of the 2 persons concerned then by all means speak to the two parties separately and in confidence.
It would also be a good idea to speak to the primary rumour monger/gossip spreader . This is not the sort of behaviour a company would countenance.
Regarding speaking to the husband & children about the lady is grossly immoral and unethical and I am appalled that such an action is even suggested.
It is equally shocking that so far the comments suggest that the lady in question should be penalised and not the other party in this so called affair!

From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
One should be professional in these things. We should not try or attempt to peep in other person's personal life, although these possibly might be very catching to few people and a hot matter of gossip in leisure time.
If you can do - play a role to divert people's focus on this thing. This is domain where person has got freedom to decide be it right or wrong / Good or bad. We or any body else morally also do not have any right to intervene in this domain.

hiya
first do you have concrete evidence against her?
has she behaved in an in appropriate way in office?
Has she shown undue favoritism towards her lover so much so that it jeopradizes the team??
if the answer is no to the above then, it sis the rest of the team that needs counselling!
1. they have no work to do
2. they are wasting their time on grapevines and building negativity.
So pls take a careful call, and pls do not let feelings, individual beliefs or any such thing come in way of your decision. See if she serves the organization in better interest, in all probability she is
good luck
S.S.M Dev
Principal Consultant
BECORTA
From India, Thiruvananthapuram
This type of problem is too common, I think it is not a serious problem for management.Management should talked with that lady.Most of women are immotional in nature. she can be involve such type of relation. May be she also want to end of this relation. At this moment she need a good friend or guide. Management can play this role.
Anindita
From India, New Delhi
Hi Sari,
I noticed everywhere we are talking abt that lady bt nowhere the man comes in picture neither his personal nor professional life wld be affected...May be he is not married bt still he is also in the same boat if management is concerned abt offc envt. only. Might be the case that this guy is responsible or in fact these are all overcooked stories
I would suggest to avoid the grapewine that might have evolved due to her being a smart and efficient worker. May be her team is full of her rivals...
there are n no. of possibilities and one can not conclude to the extent to rip off her professional and personal life.
best regards,
R A
From India, New Delhi
Hello Dear,
See she is looking for a extra relationship means something is going wrong at her personal life. She is finding someone where she can express herself and that's exactly has happened. And its pretty natural.
Right now what we can do is consult to the guy and ask about her personal life. Now lets target her mental health. Support her, boost her confidence and slowly take her away from present relationship. I agree to what Ashwini Shah said, though it doesn't come in HR activities, we can help our employees to come out of such personal crisis. And I guess that will be real challenge for an HR to break the boundaries and manage the basic functionality as why HR? Is to take care of human. Professionalism and other aspects are true but from my point of view they comes later. Employee is like a kid for an HR. So rest all solutions.. you know it better
Regards
Sandip Waghole

From India, Pune
From ayyar Natarajan
These are intrernal affairs of any person involving his personal matter. Management must concentrate with ytheir own company work only. It is not possible neither it is good to look into the personal matters of any individual working in the company as long as it does not affect his or her work or performance in the company.
Unless one person realises himself or herself what she / he is doing is wrong and if he/she does not distinguish from right or wrong no external force or advice or suggestion will not help any one. On the contrary it will only drive them more vigorously and the will become a rebel in the society.
Time is changing and the society also changing. The same type of information was brought to my notice regarding one my senior officer . I suggested that whatever be his wishes he should not neglect his own family because of his new venture. Surprising thing the was officer was an intelligent person embedded with honesty and integrity.
From India, Pondicherry
Well I don't think that there is a need to take action agst the couple. Especially if there performance is not affected. the only matter to take care is that they should not display their love movements in office premises.
From India, Delhi
Hai Sari,
The most of the views are right, since the relations may lead to coilations among employees and destroy to the Internal controls or system of the organisation.
First counsel and make a way to leave the organisation by showing different cause.
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Friend,
You please check out the guy who is involved with her.
Always protect women rights cause they get involved in extra marital affairs when someone induces them or befools them, no one wants to get involve on her own, as it also leads to reputation in office and public impression.
So please stop that guy or either they should marry.
Thanks
.
From India, Dehra Dun
Dear Friend,
I am surprised you are only mentioning the women part but the man who is equally involve in this matter is not part of your problem. You should also counsel that guy who is involve with her.
Regards,
Rana
From India, Delhi
Dear Sari,
You can't take any decesion suddenly as you told without complaint or written letter about the issue of those employees. Don't listen to others you personaly look after it if it is true then call her to your cabin tell her what wrong she is doing take a written letter form her saying that if it is continued the managment can take any action regarding this.
Thanks & Regards
Rajesh
From India, Bangalore
Hi,
At this point of time you feel their relationship is not affecting their performance. But over a period of time definitely, it will hamper the work culture. It will decrease the productivity because of their personal issues. Usually, the people who do such things in office will say they are professional in the work place. But we can not keep on monitoring them during the work hours.
If you did nt take this issue seriously, this will lead to an another similar issue in the future. More than that, this will affect the work environment and the team.
From India, Bangalore
Affairs between men and women are common at the workplace. Extramarital affairs add that extra element of spice and give rise to gossip.

In most organisations, the rule is that when two employees get married, one is either asked to quit( extreme case) or one spouse is transferred to another section, or like in a bank, the lady normally gets a transfer close to her home.

As for extra marital affairs, the danger lies in favouritism that gets developed if both are in the same dept. and one is in a position of authority.Besides, there are always rumours about the couple. Though some one has suggested that they write to the husband,in many cases, there is already a rift in the family which probably gave rise to the affair. It all starts with that sympathetic hearing given to a colleague with marital problems at home.

The extra marital affair is always a messy thing and most companies warn them, transfer one to far away depts. and when nothing works, forces one party to leave as the reputaion and even business of the company can be compromised by people who have no self control.

Regards

Job Xavier

Trinity Academy 98923 29188

Dear Sari,
You must counsel her but as her work performance is ok so there does not arise any question of action against her. You will have to make balance in practical and professional approach towards this issue.
Thanks..
Suren Turan
Head-HR
From India, Calcutta
Dear Sari,
I fully agree with Mangesh. Secondly I think the people in your organisation have lot of spare time, otherwise tell me how they get time to discuss someone else's personal life.
You being in HR should not be biased and just majority of the people belive, that her charecter is bad, it is not necessary to be true, so dear please confirm before jumping to conclusion.
Bye take care
Anita
From India, Mumbai
Sari, I totally agree with the Sainath's revert, unless you have strong reason or proofs you cannot take any action against this employee, so even i would suggest to speak to her friendly and check what exactly she is, probably you can take her out of the campus or to cafeteria or to a focus room where she feels comfortable in sharing things with you. We certainly cannot judge just by seeing them going around/together or being more friendly with fellow counterpart. Also there might be other people who just involve themselves in spreading rumors about this lady. Please speak to the people who talks about her that if they have seen her involving herself in any wrong step inside office and which is against the code of conduct. If yes, you can speak to her, if not the case is ruled out.

One wrong step of informing to her husband or childrens may surely ruin her personal life which might lead to any negetive step from her and you might be the only sole reason for it. As we work in the corporate world and interact with many people across the world these type of things happening is common. Sametime, lets be very judgemental in taking any decision/action and lets not set an wrong example by taking wrong step.
From India, Bangalore
Dear
There is no duubt that the situation is very unpleasent and definetly polluting the working atmosphere. you being the HR must talk to both the individuals and try to tell them that even the society do not allow thses type of affiars secondly the lady should be more concern about her childerns. As far as the mngt. is concern they should also be uprised with the ground reality that such sceans do tarnish the image the company indirectly so they must take remidial steps against the workers.
Rakesh
From India, Vijayawada
Hi!!!
In our society we all have social welfare responsibilities. No one can say, it is none of our business. Nowadays these kinds of dirty things are growing like a poison in the society. Atleast as a indian citizen you have to take some action against them. By this the girl's life will be protected. Unless anybody interferes in this, they wont stop. According to me, one must be terminated. Else it wont stop. Taking actions should be in secret. Coz, the girl's family will be affected by this. But before action, it is good to confirm that they have affair.
From India, Madras
Is there a universal right of men to "drool over gals"?
Let me inform all the readers and members of cite hr. Mr. Ravishankar, always tries to criticise the situation, and always answers the questions in a very aggreassive mannner, which he should restrain from. The problem is sidelined, and he always is busy in blaming one or the other person. So mr. Ravishankar, its a kind advice to u, to understand the problems of people on this forum and suggest good advice, rather than criticizing some person or community or profession.
From India, Mumbai
Hello Friends,
This is a normal thing affairs, scandals. As a organisation there are two things we need to look into.
a) If this affair is affecting the perfomance of the person involved.
b) Are involved in activities which is unethical.
Then the organisaiton needs to step in and sort it out. Either by a verbal warning or written warning.
Now the point of atmosphere getting polluted. I know what I am going to put across is not acceptable for everyone whether its a Male or femal Gender. But the Fact is there a thing called "Jealousy"
For some, they are Jealous because they couldnt have a had such an affair.
For some They want to but couldnt dare to.
I think, the other people should concentrate on their work and stop looking into personal life of other.
If your are so concerned for such things then thre are lots of thing which are happening around us are we going to take every issue, the answer is No.
From India, Mumbai
Good say Punrima 19 , We are here to share our views to reslove the problem for a better and better result not to creat a problem or to make the matter worse . Regards.. Mangesh HR Manager
From India, Pune
very true purnima, there is no universal right of men to drool over gals, that can happen vice-versa.
one question to ravishankar - if all the women should prevent themselves from getting into affairs........how men would justify there genology according to you?????
From India, Delhi
Hi
I have seen extreme response to this and I am adding another one to it..

First I am amazed to see majority people are taking about doing something ( counsel/letter / talking/action etc) to the lady.. no one is talking about the other partner.. why are we assuming the lady is at fault?

On the relationship, society keep on evolving itself and rules keep on changing based on what people want to do. Highest court of India has accepted live-in relationship which was once considered extreme taboo.. This is individual choice what one looks at it. Never ever we shall have unified view of the whole society.

In this particular case, organisation have appointed 2 adult human being capable of taking decision of their life. Organisation has no right (legal as well as moral) to interfere in this. As far as the impact on other employees are concerned, I think role of managers would be to educate people about not to meddle in the personal affairs of others and mind their own business. If this effecting performance of individuals then they are subject to performance management process of the organisation.

I know many people will not like my view but let me clarify my belief here. Freedom and liberty is the belief of 21st century and people specially new generation is beginning to enjoy this. Never in the history we had access to so much information to know whats happening in the world and pre-adapt ourselves before that situation hits us. Relationships are also undergoing the same curve. New generation married couple have more personal independence then their parent had. Husband & wife feel free to take independent decisions with ease today. We have accepted this change quickly then why not in other areas of relationships.
From India, Bangalore
Lets look at only on how it affects the work culture.

In my opinion - no one should be bothered on what is happening in another person's personal life. Unless and uintil they are "making things very obvious" in the work place, and that literally hinders others work!

BTW - what makes anyone think that this Woman has a relationship with the man? Becuase she gets dropped by him, or is it becuase they have coffee/lunch together? Any "proofs??"

Its basically our ignorance to stop concentrating on what matters the most - i.e "Work" and let things not related to it affect as and finally complain that it is teh other person's relation!

The whole world is intersted in other people's affairs.. Eg:Sania Mirza and the Shoaib thing that dominated news channels - what did we get? (or reportes get?) Banned from viewing the engagement :-)

Kareena and Saif - what did interested people like us get? Nothing just ads that talk about recoring serials and eating popcorns

Aishwarys and Abhi - ...arghh.. I really dont know what to write here..but liek others quote "Oh a cute pair!!"

The above three examples have never impacted our lives personally or professionally.

Just in that way - I believe other employees need to stay focused on their work.. If this is happening in their house / family, they can be upset. Otherwise, its just a mere excuse to enjoy in the sweet moment of being lazy or not working!

Like how there is a common saying - every person falls in love at least once in their life - likewise, .most of the people come across this situation atleast once (extra marital affair) - its left to them to decide to ruin their life or not. Ofcourse - my advise would be is to stay away unless and until the current relationship is abusive or not working at all inspite of trying to improve relations!
From India, Madras
I agree to your view. Its wrong to assume, and it really wrong to have an opinion on another person’s personal life. Are we all that jobless???
From India, Madras
Reg; Extra Marital affair
Before diving into conclusion first ascertain they have extra marital affair, if yes you can counsel both and give piece of advice which is affecting the work, The Management is not bothered unless they are efficiency has come down, but has HR Manager you can stop all these nonsense.
Satish B HR-Manager
From India, Bangalore
A good problem indeed. In my opinion an organisation is just like a small society, were people with various attitudes and thinking work. No doubt it surely effects the people working around. On the other part If I talk like head of a department where such activities are going on but it has no effect on the work its none of my business to poke my mouth in someones personal life.

Just look around you will find a lot of things which are not according to you but still you live or its better to say you adjust. There are a lot of evils in the society still you save yourself from those. Your culture has made you learn how to move in a society which has both even as well as odds. Think there might be reasons why that employee is doing so.

What I actually want to say is that dont get bothered by the gossips in your office, just let it go. I have too faced such problem but the result was zero, I had to fire both the employees resulting loss of two workers. Let it all go till the work is not suffered and the best soultion is if you can just transfer one of the employee to other department.
From India, Moradabad

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