Pbskumar2006
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Unusual_indu
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Amith R Murthy
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PraveenIP
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Mariaa
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Karuuna
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Prashanth Shetty
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Respected Seniors and my dear fellow members

I would like to invite your views on a very common problem which is perhaps faced by all HR professionals .There are bound to be some employees in every company who are there with the company since its inception and hence are in the good books of the management(most of the time).They think they have the liberty to mend and break the office discipline the way they want to.Things become even more difficult as 9 out of 10 times company is very dependent on this particular resource and cannot afford to loose him on a short notice.

Moreover if the HR person like me is junior to him in experience and age then it becomes all the more difficult to enforce discipline.In my company there some senior resources who refuse to abide by the basic rules like wearing an id card or signing the attendance register.Everyday I have to think of something new to convince them to follow this basic rule .When I inform the management about it they tell me that I need to handle them tactfully

I am in the process of learning the tricks of the trade but I would like to earnestly request you to help me out with this situation

Thanks and Regards

Indrani Chakraborty
20th September 2007 From India, Pune
Hi ,
The problem you have mentioned pertains in every organization. Yes you have to be tactful , which means if you are unable to resolve it with humble request and polite approach, its high time to work in black and white.
you can write stinkers to them , with a CC to their reporting managers and the management body.
Hope this works
Good luck
Ankita Kohli
21st September 2007 From India, New Delhi
Respected Senior(Ankita)
Thank you for your suggestion.That can be a good way to tackle them but I saved that for future as I have just joined the organisation .Moreover time and again I need help from them regarding their team members performance related issues ,again for inputs on recruitment so I have to keep them warm also.
I will start sending them mails in black and white but politely,marking a copy to their senior(as you have mentioned) and then wait for the results.By doing so I will also have a record with me that I did remind them about the office rules and regulations
Thank you once again
Indrani Chakraborty
21st September 2007 From India, Pune
HI Indrani........its tough to tackle these people.......who think due to them the company works and the kind of attitude they carry which only influences his team members......reflecting in their behaviours too
I have faced the same situation......I have arranged meetings with my director and the senior team.........about the new updates...giving them importance and explaining them how inspiring/influencing they are..........and arranged team meetings asking the senior people to take presentations on office etiquettes..dress sense...attendacne and discipline............i have asked each dept head to take classes............twice in a month......i can see lot of change in them now.......I THINK TACT/DIPLOMACY playes a vital role in handling these kind of typical people....Hope it was of some help to you........
21st September 2007 From India, Hyderabad
Respected Senior (Sari)
I must say your ideas are very good .I will definitely try to adopt a few of them and implement the same at workplace.You know where the problem lies anything that I tell them falls on deaf ears ,since they are the people who generate business for the company they take HR as a support function and they think all HR people are big fools!
One more problem that I face is the newcomers in the organisation tend to follow the senior people which is quite obvious and they adopt all the malpractices that their seniors have been following for ages.Like for eg no employee is allowed to listen to music at work as per instruction from the management but since 1 senior guy is doing that all other people have started doing the same
I was really at my wits end .I thank you once again for your wonderful advices.I just hope it works
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
21st September 2007 From India, Pune
Well Well

Though this is a really good topic to debate, and I can write some long pages on it, but to be short and precise, there are somethings which we need to get it cleared:

1. I once told my Personnel manager to do this,, but straight away he told no. I was not happy with that as I wanted to do it and I thought whatever I am doing is good. Then one fine day I asked him about dat issue and he told me the reason for telling no, i.e he explained it to me in a very good manner, and I came to know that I did not look at that matter from the other point / side. So mostly we juniors fresh management people want to try many things, but the senior knows what is practically possible and what is not.

2. Well the next thing as UNUSUALINDU told is that, Seniors listening to music, or doing things apart from official work in office and juniors following the same. Here the problem is with more of junior or senior is really difficult to comment. A senior listening music will catch the attention of juniors. ok fine. But the senior must be just listening to music to destress, relax for just an hour / half an hour. and after that he must be working / slogging the rest of day. So the juniors here are failing to note the hard work done by senior and may be they persume that senior is enjoying. If the junior looks the whole day schedule of senior he can understand that senior has more responsibilities than junior. So the ethical way in this situation would be you discourage the juniors from listening to music.

Even my boss listens to music sometimes, and almost most of the day my boss is not at workplace busy in meetings, and at that time,, no one is at my workplace, so i cld listen to music, play my flash games but i know i have this work,, and if all work is done then i do involve in games, music, net etc.

No doubt there are also seniors who hate juniors just because juniors are most faster more educated than them, and some seniors resist change, show arrogance, NO always to juniors ideas.

The most ethical way would be to study the whole situation of your company , the management style, what management thinks is ethical,, like u go to complain about senior to some higher manager and u find himself playing games :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: then what,, u hav to presume that the senior got this inspiration from his SENIOR... am i correct?

So first througouly study your company and then make a decision in such cases to whom u can tell,, Not necessarily whatever is theoritically correct needs to be followed,, as practically something other happens.

UR SENIOR

or

UR JUNIOR..
22nd September 2007 From India, Pune
You know where the problem lies anything that I tell them falls on deaf ears ,since they are the people who generate business for the company they take HR as a support function and they think all HR people are big fools!

The above sentence is really very true. ONLY IN CASE OF SOME INDUSTRIES... and I agree with you..

When I was working in manufacturing company the management consisted of THREE PEOPLE ,, PLANT MANAGER, COMMERCIAL MANAGER and HR MGR... but our HR had no say in anything,,, the major major objective of any manufacturing plant is OUTPUT and nothing else, even I had to forego my holidays,, without any overtime , common off etc... because if they as HR person give me a common off or overtime,, u just cant calculate the amount that they need to give other manufacturing supervisors ,,, it will be more than their monthly salary is supposed...

approx everyday working is of 10 hrs for supervisors,, whereas workers enjoy as they are covered by various acts ,,,etc... so every day calculate minimum 2 hrs OT,, and + working on holidays ,,HR does not give them ,,, but in ur company ur policy might be such as even if someone stays late u must be paying them
22nd September 2007 From India, Pune
In my company there some senior resources who refuse to abide by the basic rules like wearing an id card or signing the attendance register.Everyday I have to think of something new to convince them to follow this basic rule .When I inform the management about it they tell me that I need to handle them tactfully

this management tells us everytime,,, but my personnel manager was good enough to tell me,,, " RAVI,, dis will happen, and we cant do anything to stop it"

So then I had to change my thinking that in this Company I cannot implement HR policies etc.. so the best would be,, let me be concerned with my pay and work.. the rest can go to hell,,

with no support from management its useless to try and literally go against the management...

BUT HERE ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO ADVISE U ...

Again go to management and ask them that ur unable to do this and ask for their idea / advice / support.. may be this situation needs to be dealt with strategy which probably the management wants u to recoganise & work out .. because a simple job for management,, to tell any employee to stop listening to music or anyother thing,, but u need to deal this with extreme care, and in HR we also make some foes also.,, like the senior may presume that ur behind him to stop his listening to music,, and what if he informs you all other activities done by other seniors and ask you to stop it,,,,[this i have personally experienced, so i first see and study management then apply my brain,,, , ] may be these activities reach deep to management

management is very tough not easy...
22nd September 2007 From India, Pune
well if you decide to write any letter to your employees, just tell me ,,, I would prepare some letters [with masala] and give it to you... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
22nd September 2007 From India, Pune
Hi Indrawn...

i appreciate you have dared to tackle them.

I have come across such culture in two companies. I learned few strategies on my own . It did work very well for me.

issues like this do not have ready made solutions. we have to customize our strategies so as to suit the location/history.profile of the people.

you have joined that organization recently. wait for six months.

do something for them in these six months. they too will be having few issues which have not been addressed by the mment for long time. they should see you as a person who is committed to their needs/problems.

you cannot correct them unless you win them. remember they have developed these attitude over period of so many years.

they are aware that you are doing your job by asking them to be disciplined. inside their heart they too want stick to odoingrules. but their ego is not allowing them to give in to a new person.

do something good for them. let that be their justification for compromising with that ego.

yes sounds very simple. but not easy . but never fails, and takes time too..

the above strategies of mine gave me rich results . it helped to change the culture of the organizations which are 30 years old.

sending memos etc are negative discipline strategies which are no more useful.

most importantly you need not succeed in in your efforts of doin good for them. your public efforts are enough to project a positive image of yours.

so keep trying..all the best

prashanth shetty
22nd September 2007
Respected Senior(Prashanth)

Thank you for your comments .After joining this organisation I felt this is the issue which needs to be addressed first because,there are only a few senior members and rest all ar with 2-3 yrs of experience and like when we were kids we teied to imitate what grown ups used to do in the same fasion they try to imitate the seniors

Your advice to do something positive for the seniors will be very helpful for me .They already have the liberty to come toffice late take as many as 30 holidays a year ,they are getting fat packages,when Invite them to give training to the juniors so that they feel speacial they refuse saying that they dont have time in hand ,sometimes I fail to understand what else can I do for them

I will be highly obliged if you can suggest me what positive things I can do for them .Iam trying to mingle with them and get into their shoes and see what else they want from the company or whta are theire grievances but then again that is goin to take alittle time

Keep posting

Thanks and Regards

Indrani Chakraborty
23rd September 2007 From India, Pune
Hi Indrani...
Ok so you are behind those senior guys...
good...
as i told you your strategy should have been custumised to your org.
need to know more about your org.
can you tell me how old are you in this org?
have you idetified any issue whach they are not happy with?
Prashanth
25th September 2007
Hi,
Let me tell you how I solved the problem in my office.
I had exactly 5 seniors who wer considered as the foundation of the org and were very strong.
I was new and new in this org and beleive it or not they had even objected to have a hr in the orgn.However when I joined all gave me polite smiles but later on I got the news from the grapevine sources adn belive me I tried to involve them in my process of changing the orgn policies.
I belive that if you give the robber the keys to house and guard it he will never rob your house.This was my strategy which worked and I wish it works for you too.
All the best
Regards
Karuuna
25th September 2007 From India, Mumbai
Hi Indrani,
This is really a case in many of the Industries. Infact even i have overcome this in my professional life and handling this kind of problem depends on the certain things like how will those people take it for granted, than how will management react to this which will depend on the out come of your effort. Infact putting a mail is really a good idea and this works out and you will be on the safer side as you have done your part of the job by reminding. Remeber when we will be new in any organization in a lower/middle we have to just remaind others where they will go wrong rest will be looked after by our seniors. Tell me what have you decided on this and how will you handle it out..........
Regards
Amith R.
25th September 2007 From India, Bangalore
Hi Indrani,
(I hope this works for you)
In today's world nobody listens to you even if it is politely said....but there are other ways to tackle such situations ,if you have tell them individually that's the wrong approach..what all can you do: just have a look
1. create a specific id(here i'm talking about official id which can be used for All employee's communication only)
2. Send an All employee mail for any such communication ( from the above id) so that you don't have to approach everybody.
3. Your dept head should be the signatorty
This will solve your purpose indirectly .....(if it is in your work profile you should handle such things by simply addressing to all employee's)
#189613 (only for the reference..this is the appropriate way to communicate your message)

Regards,
Deepa
25th September 2007 From India, Gurgaon
well what do our senior members have to say in this case,,, or is it that cite hr is full of only juniors like us... I would like some senior member to guide us, as to why they behave like this,,
25th September 2007 From India, Pune
I have faced the similar problem in the organisation and the approach which I took was little different. I became very friendly with these "seniors", have very often chat with them over a coffee and used to praise them (they are praiseworthy too). I used to tell tem that they are the role model for many in the organisation and juniors do respect them and tactlyfully , told them to fill in the attendance register etc. which really worked. You will have to have patience , as they would not listen to you initially.
All the best
Mariaa
25th September 2007 From India, Bangalore
Hi indrani,
Pl write a memo to all regarding the attendance system as a part of stramlineining the entire orgnaisation. Inlcude this points and send a cc to your immediate boss or the director
Next day make sure that all will adhere it strictly
keep on informing them the consequences if they do not agree
BC
25th September 2007 From India, Mumbai
Dear Friends,
All your views are correct. The same thing I too facing ofcourse. Finally I solved smoothly through the management itself by way of CHANEKYA'S idea. First you make a friendship style, make a strong ground with your colleagues who are opponent of the persons. Every Management is depending on Production & Accounts personnel. So to co-ordinate with that department and then start your disqualifications of such people and explaining through them to the management. Your problems will be solved.
Regards,
:wink:
PBS KUMAR
25th September 2007 From India, Kakinada
Indrani,
It's not the problem at your company only. The problem is everywhere these days. In my company senior people always tried to brake the baisc rules and regulations.But, being HR as strict disciplinarian you should politely approcah them to follow the rules and you should convince them to follow the rules so that their juniors can follow them. Indirectly tell them "Discipline is the sign of human beings and indiscipline is the sign of animals". Try to handle it with tact and while talking to them (those senior team members)don't request them but just to tell them that they are not abiding the rules which is really bad.Its just you have to convince them you can't force them initially as you are seeking their help sometimes(as you told)
Thanks
dev
25th September 2007 From India, Gurgaon
Hi Indrani,

It is a very common problem in our Industries in India, these kind of people prevail everywhere and most of the HR professional encounters them at certain stage.

If they do that kind of things means the management is weak. The higher management is not comptent enough to deal these elements or just watch them helplessly. You are trying your best but to control all this you need support and cooperation of the higher management.

To ensure that they follow rules and act in a disciplined way offcourse you have to be very tactful with them. Prepare yourself for all situations, just discuss this with your seniours and try to have proper communication healthy communication with these elements and if everything fails just bring the things in black and white. If they dont sign the attendance register just deem them absent and mark them absent, if they are ashamed of wearing name badge just straigtaway give written warning.

I know to work in this kind of atmosphere is very streesful sometimes but you will have to work and take some tough decisions. It is very disgusting to have these kind of coward seniors who dont take any action or hesitate of taking any action on these elements just by the fear of loosing them. They dont realize that they are nurturing devil. Its better to nip the devil in the bud. These kind of seniors will have to come out of that mentality "agar murga baang nahi dega tau saveera nahi hoga"

Even in the starting of my career i had to deal with this kind of situations when i have to mend so many heros of this sort, and i can better understand what we feel when we work in this kind of atmosphere, and how owkward is the situation when some good employees questions you why certain rules apply on them and why it is not applied on the others.

Bibhutosh Bhadauria
25th September 2007 From Australia, Balwyn
Hello,

You have got very good and releavent responses to this post.

I would say that whatever you do should not seem to offensive and insulting to seniors. you can always try a diplomatic way.

you can not say anything to seniors directly but you can always advice their subbordinates infront of them to follow the decipline very humbly and do it repitatively. you will see the results in a very short time.

you can even arrange some formal sessions on etiquttes and do invite these so called seniors also to the session and then send formal reminders as the highlights of the session and also prepare a summary form to check the effectiveness of the session. Do send this form to all the seniors to be filled every week mention the names of all the subbordinates and give options for rating. Do mention the seniors name in that and see how he fills it up and send it to you. Nobody will be able to lie in this form for a longer time and you will see the difference without saying or complaining abt anything to the management.

The only thing is to do such session and feedback you may require some approvals from the management...but it will not be a difficult task.

good luck

Regards

Anal Shah

+919998035930
25th September 2007 From India, Ahmadabad
Indu,

I really like the good topics for discussion you come up with. This is second topic in two weeks that is very important.

The specific issue you have raised is one that is most common with all industries. Those in favour or those who are senior will always act high handed especially if they are important to the organisation with respect to their skill sets.

First let us look at a point you have mentioned earlier in the discussions that you are new to the company and that you are still young in your career. The most important thing for you to change any one is to first understand everone involved.

You need to have patience and spend more of your time in understanding the organisation culture and its people. To do this you need to work with them closely before you even try to implement it. If you boss asks you to implement something dont act immediately. Ask the most important questions Why, What, How, When, Whom (not necessarily in that order).

Especially when you are a junior you need to approach the senior personnel asking them for a suggestion in tacking the problem. It is very simple to ask a senior personnel who does not wear his tag everyday how to address another senior who also does not wear a tag everyday. If nothing else guilt will make him see the bad side of his own action.

These are simple questions assumingly harmless but will help you in making more friends among the persons you want to change than writing memos. Remember seniors against whom you write sweet letters marking CC to others will hold it against you when you are in the wrong.

Use mails as the last resort until you have established yourself in the company.

I dont know if this will help you but I personally believe that sometimes you can achieve more by talking to others than writing.

Regards

Praveen
25th September 2007 From India
Respected Senior (Prashanth )
Thank you so much for your comments and thank you so much for taking interest in my problem .I am now 1 month old in this organisation and the people I am talking about are as long as 4 yrs old in the organisation.The organisation is a mid sized It company which is into web development.
When I talked to these people the first thing that I got to know is policywise theye are getting the same kind of treatment as the freshers/juniors are getting in the sense that in our company we do not get any payslips.The senior guys they require payslips for applying credit cards ,loans etc.So the first step that I want to take is arrange for their payslips .
I guess there is much more to come
I invite your suggestions on the same
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
25th September 2007 From India, Pune
Hi guys.....
Well i tried humour.
I kept putting Post-It on their workstation with the message written.
I use to put Post-It with a sad face on the teacup or documents which are not kept in their respective place with a message that i miss my family which are in the sink or the X drawer.
Sad face on the PC saying i was late to be switched on and all my friends laughed at me......
Try creativity...................
It worked with me....
Of course if job done,
remember to put a Smiley
Regards...
neelu
Ps- Be persistent in the diplamatic messages.
25th September 2007 From China, Beijing
[quote="neelu"]Hi guys.....
Well i tried humour.
I kept putting Post-It on their workstation with the message written.
I use to put Post-It with a sad face on the teacup or documents which are not kept in their respective place with a message that i miss my family which are in the sink or the X drawer.
Sad face on the PC saying i was late to be switched on and all my friends laughed at me......
Try creativity...................
It worked with me....
Of course if job done,
remember to put a Smiley
Regards...
neelu
Ps- Be persistent in the diplamatic messages.[/quote
Hi Neelu
Thank you for your comments .I must say you have given me a very unusual solution,I hope it works.This I beleive is a refreshing way to look at the problem
Keep postiing
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
]
25th September 2007 From India, Pune
Hi Amit
Thanks for your comments.I beleive writing a mail is a good idea but then again by this time these people have become immune to mails and memos .Nevertheless its always good to get things drafted
Keep posting
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakarborty
25th September 2007 From India, Pune
Respected Senior (Bibhutosh)
Thank you for comments.You have rightly pointed out that the management is weak.actually they are not weak they are dependant on these senior people .I can say one thing that these seniors are good at their work and no wonder that is why they are there for so many years.Many of our fellow members have adviced me to send them strict instructions etc but then again at the end of the day I need help from them for recruitment etc so I think first I need to get accepted by them and then only try these things.
Keep posting
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
25th September 2007 From India, Pune
Hey Indu
This situation prevails in almost all the organizations and this is where you have to use your whims to bring out the best from the worst situation. What you can do is probably make them accountable for certain things i.e give them the responsibility of inculcating discipline in their juniors. Assisgn them roles like ''Discipline-Incharge" or "Floor Manager". This will not only infuse a sense of responsibility in them but will also make them obliged.
Shipra
26th September 2007 From India, New Delhi
Dear Indrani,
It is common problem in almost all organisations whether small or big, Indian or MNCs. Even after making strict systems, some employees
think that they will not abide the policy of the company as they are at
senior position or they are oldest employees of the organisation.
In my opinion this problem is to be handled tactfully and you after talking to the CEO / MD of your company, give notice in writing to such employees under cc to the higher authority. In case the concerned employees do not improve their habits, then you finally talk to the higher authorities what to do and ask them straight away for the action.
Thanks
Madan Singh
26th September 2007 From India, Delhi
Hi All,
One of the ways I would suggest is talk to the person one-one.
Make him sit on your seat and you take the persons seat. Then ask him a solution. I think as a human he is bound to cheak his behaviour or tell you whats wrong with you.
If that doesnt work just talk to your boss. No use wasting time as that wont solve your problem.
Regards,
Santosh Verma.
26th September 2007 From India, Bangalore
Hi Indrani,

This is a very commom issue and all HR personnel should face in their career. You can follow the strategies given by Prashanth and Karuna.

First thing you be confident and don't consider this as a problem , but take it as a general matter and face it.Before that first you should clearly analyze your views towards the seniors. Be positive and assertive to your points. Seniors also once upon a time they were juniors. They are well aware of all these formalities. You need to be more diplomatic. By writing e-mails and copying their supervisors will not work , rather it will become more complicated.

Being HR person you need to win them through your professionalism.You talk to them about the policy / rule. And also explain them directly that they should be role models to junior people. Talking to them openly in a pleasing manner is the best way to tackle. Following all other ways is not very much useful.

Donot try the conversation directly to the point , have a coffee or general discussion and then project your issue directly and listen to them clealry.Get the reason from them why they don't want to follow.

In general there is no person in the world who will say NO if you tell them in a polite manner. Be more assertive than aggressive of your point. Any problem cannot be one way. Same way solution also .

Hope you will find your way to resolve this.

All the best.

Usha
26th September 2007 From India, Hyderabad
Hi all
This is very interesting topic.I have a similar problem. I am working in an IT software Company and people grenally leave late probably by 8:30PM or so. and next morning they (mostly few counted employees) come late to the office i.e half an hour late although we do not have any hard and fast rule for any kind of deduction to be made if they come late so they have a routine to come late...now i have taken session related to same but they said" Mam we normally leave late for the day and now we want some flexibility in time" considering this is I do not take any kind of action. but the issue remains same that they are late..and i want them to come on time......Can any one guide me what should i do...for the same?
I have taken Sessions for those counted employees ? result nothing......
as i don't take any action as they say they leave late 2 hour or 3 hour late then usual almost daily but i want my employee to come on time?
GUIDE ME...........:?:
Nidhi (Hr. Executive)
26th September 2007 From India, New Delhi
Indrani,
Its not only a common problem but some how we Indians are like this, when we empowered with power, we start behaving like the stupid kings who knows about his state, but he doesn't know about 1) how many cities it have? 2) what is the size of population? 3) How people are behaving in a particular area? 4) What is their requirement? 5) whether his plans are worth to be executed or not?
So there are many fields which can be said, but employee who are straight forward will never face any problem in life. Just keep on reminding them about the official policies, even if they turn foes for you, just use your smile and say its a part of job.
With Regards,
Om Prakash
26th September 2007 From India, Vadodara
Hi,
The problem you are facing is being by most of the HR.
We can dictate or make them to follow the rules.
But we can explain them the importance of following rules and regulations.
We have to be very friendly and polite while explaining about it otherwise you end up hurting their ego.
If still they dont follow, then enforce them to do, because I have examples where the new HR was asked to quit for some wrong reasons, but actual reason was that, he was strict with policies and tried to imply on the senior mgnt, which has created problems to him and made him to quit the job.
So be careful and handle the situation.
Thanks
Pallavi.
27th September 2007 From India, Mumbai
Nidhi,
If you are in IT , you need have flexible timings. You can not have hard core rules when it comes to timing. They know their work schedules and delievarables. When you have flexible timings , they feel comfortable.
In our office we follow the same.
So be with people.
Thanks,
Usha
27th September 2007 From India, Hyderabad
Hi

I will focus my response to the problem of signing the muster - this is one of the areas where I had some success.

I sent out a circular citing the need of signing the muster as follows:

"We have noticed that, many staff does not sign the muster regularly. This has been pointed out in a recent inspection by the Shop & Establishment Inspector as an error. While we have avoided a legal notice from the inspector this time, we may not be so fortunate in future.

Therefore I request all of you to sign the Attendance register on daily basis. For those of you, who will be traveling / going on leave, please ensure that you inform us by email in advance, so that we can make the necessary remarks in the muster.

I request all HODs to ensure that their team adheres to the above"

Some additional details mentioned were :

a. Please mention the “In Time” in the muster when you reach office in the morning.

b. Any employee reaching the office after 12 p.m. will be marked half day leave. This would not be applicable for those working through the night on the previous day.

c. All employees are required to mention the “time out” when they leave office for the day in a separate register being provided.

d. Any employee wishing to leave the office before 6 p.m. will need the permission of his / her reporting manager in writing. This should be informed to HR.

Any employee who doesn’t sign the muster when they reach office will be marked Absent and will accordingly lose one day leave or salary (based on available leave balance).

To enforce this, we marked defaulters in the muster in pencil. This created some noise initially to which I coolly told them that since they had not informed HR/Admin, we made the remarks. We also cited other departments who had started following the policy.

We did not have to actually deduct leave, but the action of making remarks in the muster worked wonders. It is also important that you have the support of your own manager when implementing any policy.

Hope this helps!

Regards

Ryan
27th September 2007 From India, Mumbai
Dear Chakraborty,
Good morning,
This issue is found in every old organisation and being a HR professional we have to face. Change in attitude of a group takes time. As I have read the comments given by my friends. You win them(particular group members) and share their personal problems if possible you help them.
At present the employer want profits,healthy environment, good work culture and no IR issues. In this situation definitely the position of HR will be strong. This is a challenge for HR. You can arrange trainings on change in attitude for organisational development, effectiveness of good practices etc.. I hope that you will get success.
Have a nice day
Lalit Kumar Gupta
27th September 2007 From India, Lucknow
Hi Usha I know i need to be flexible but My Immediate superior wants me make the people come on Time? i want to be flexible but I have to check my duties also at the same time...? Nidhi
27th September 2007 From India, New Delhi
Yes, we HR guys need to tackle such problems tactfully, but it also needs good support from the top management. I being the HR manager in my company did face such problems when I joined. I brought it to my top management's notice and they tried to rectify some of them gradually, leaving some to me to rectify. I first allowed my top mangement to do their part of the work, from which it was evident that I have their support. Then I took over the course and I got sufficient response from the seniors. Initially there was much grumbling and brooding, but now everything is fine. All these seniors treat me more like a freind than an enemy.
So do approach your top management once more and explain them what you feel about it and what ever do, do it strategically rather than impulsively. What is more important is results and not means, esp in such cases.
Mitr_2008
27th September 2007 From India, Hyderabad
Hi ,
I would like to appreciate everyone for adding to the comments of the other, thereby educating unusual_ Indu.
Seniors are the backbone of any organisation. They have been in the company during its success and failure, when compared to the juniors.
Top management consider's the words of the seniors and not the juniors.
Because, most of the juniors,normally, are from the fantasy world. They fantasize many things and try to experiment all that they wish to do.
Seniors are not in the experimentation stage , but, are in the implementation stage. Juniors are estimated & evaluated by the top management and not the seniors.
With reference to mending the seniors, i feel, it would be better not to antagonise them and loose them.
If the top management has ignored them, why should the HR mend them.
A HR can perform well,with the support of the Top Management or the union.
Thank you
M.Felix.C
27th September 2007 From India, Bangalore
Respected Senior(M.Felix C)
Thank you for your valuable comments .Iabsolutely agree with you when you say taht "if the managemnet is not bothered then why should I be bothered.But the problem is management wants me to handle the situation and they are saying somehow I have to handle them tactfully .I know its my duty to do that but its quite difficult to bring changes in the age old practices so I think I need time and Iam putting in my best efforts to first get the acceptance from them and then try and implement the rules
Keep posting
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
28th September 2007 From India, Pune
HI Mitr
Thank you for your comments .In my case I do not say that top managmenet doesnt support me but they want me to be inaction rather than they showing their face.
I will try to get managementmore actively involved in the process as per your suiggestion
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
28th September 2007 From India, Pune
Respected Senuior (Santosh)
Thank you for your valuable suggestion.Imust say that your suggestion is very much doable and relevant to the situation
Keep Posting
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
28th September 2007 From India, Pune
Respected Senior(Ryan)
Thank you so much for your valuable comments .I would just like to add that ours is a small company so anybody not signing the muster will not invite any legal implicatiions.I am in the process of drafting an HR manual and I have put all these details in the Manual .I hope it is going to help
Keep Posting
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
28th September 2007 From India, Pune
Respected Senior(Om Prakash)
Thank you for your valuable suggestions.I would like to add that I keep on reminding them day in and day out but somehow I feel thinga are falling on deaf ears.As some of the members have suggested on this post I am trying to understand their problem and reach out to them so that I can bring a positive change in them.I hope it helps
I know you must have seen the world more than I have but still I feel that this problem is there with people all over the world,may be its a little more serious with Indians
Keep posting
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
28th September 2007 From India, Pune
Dear HR,

"HR is born to solve the problems"

There is no junior or Senior in this!! "We R Professionals and will be Professional" Before attacking any problem we should know the root cause and the situation there on. (Proverb says - "Know the enemies before entering into battle field)

So in your case you can just look into their past activities and question it yourself that why is this happening?

Even there may be problem from your department also. The Previous HR has taken in a liberal way and not have been followed the process and because of this the loophole has been created.

"Make the Rules or Break the Rules'

Anyhow your Department HOD knows about this matter. So, take this as an advantage and you put forward your suggest "This is not applicable for senior Management"

But Regarding Attendance "You can opt for Punch card system"

Then they will be responsible for their "presence" or "Absence" (But this depends upon the number of employees working in your organisation)

Regards,

Member of HR Family
28th September 2007
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