Ash Mathew
Recruitments, Training`
Balaji.venkatesan
Payroll, Statutory Compliance & General
Raj Kumar Hansdah
Shrm, Od, Hrd, Pms
Gunjan Sarojwal
Recruitments, T&d
Mgsuresh
Hr Executive
Shaunak_aus82
Hr & Industrial Relations
Skh.1983
Hr Officer
Tony John
Hr Executive
Amishbhatt
Hr Projects
Nikusingh
Hr Corp Strategy
Cnjayaanandh
Hr Generalist
Vjkumar25
Zonal Manager Hr
+7 Others

Dear Fellow Recruiters
With around 3 years in the Recrutiment industry as a consultant, I have always had a strong feeling that the Corporate HR somehow look down upon the consultants.
They look at consultants as low brows, mindless & un intelligent creatures who they can play around with and take advantage of.
Some of them have a hard time hiding how much they despise the consultants!!
Any ideas as to why they so much dislike the Consultants?
Perhaps some from the corporate can look inside and come out with some truthful answers...please!
I wonder how many of the corporate HR professionals keep in mind the "Human" factor while dealing with consultants and respect dignity of labour.
Perhaps it is time we have HR profesional taking a Hippcaratic oath a'la Doctors...Any opinions?
Good HR Associates
Hi,
I do agree with what you say.A lot of time people in corporates look down on consultants.Most of thet themselves have moved from consultancies to corporates.I am working in a corporate as a HR.I have also moved from a consultancy.Hence i try to understand the minds and point of view as a consultant.Corporate definently have a lot of poressure but yelling at people ,throwing attitude does not make them work.
Regards,
Divya
[COLOR="Navy"]Hi,
It happens because they feel that ball is in their court, I am also working in a corporate and understands the way of treatment.
Not only corporate HRs but even the candidates(who you call for discussing the opportunity) refuses to listen to you untill you don't say that you are calling from a company and not from a consultancy...I feel anybody who is from consultant's background can understand the recruitment challenges better than anyone...
Go-on,All The Best. :)
Regards,
Rashmi[/COLOR]

Dear All,

I feel we should not generalise. Let's take it with a pinch of salt.

1. The number of people who have replied here are the ones who have jumped from Consultancy HR to Company HR but not vice-versa ? Why ?

2. If anybody is a smart MBA graduate, he would have started his career with a "company" and not consultancy. Obviously what does this mean ?

For me, this means that Company HR has the upper hand... Let's be graceful in admitting this...

@ Good HR Associates:

1. The question is not about Dignity of Labour. If that would have been the case, over 60 % Factory HR professionals would have had to face a strike from the unions.

2. I feel there is a backdrop in your case, which may not have been mentioned here. This is ONLY your side of the story.

For eg: Have you ever tried to cross the channel of communication by going to the top HR boss of your client company rather than approaching the executive level personnel, who does this work ? My experience is that some "smart" people try to do such stuff, hence the adverse reaction.

I am not favouring anybody. Pl take this positively. It's just my personal thought.

Regards,
Shaunak Marulkar
Hi,
i agree with the point , i am HR in a company from last one year. i worked for 1 month in a consultancy for my last sem project, so i can understand the pressure on them.
But when i after completing my education i got opportunity in company, so i can feel the difference , even the candidate s give respect to corporate HR rather than a consultants,. I think its becoz now any graduate can enter in the consultant field only he should be smart enough to handle the project. But in case of Corporate we need MBA only.
so this difference is created by us only
1. Education wise
2. All consultants after gaining experience look forward to corporate only, this means they them self give priority to it even if they are MBA, so this make consultats less valuable than corporate HR.
Hi All,
According to me at anywork place top priority is given to the potential and smartness of the candidate.Holding an MBA does not mean that the person is superior to others.As far as consultants are concerned they get a wide exposure in terms of a variety of requirements,dealing with different clients etc.
Both have their positives and negatives.It depends on the way we look at it.Whether we see the glass half empty or half full.
Regards,
Divya
Hello,

I have been both a consultant and a Corporate Recruiter.

One thing that everyone must accept is that - consulting business has become more like a rat race. The one who gets the right candidate gets the money. So keeping the "hire and money" factor in mind - the consultants are forced by their team leads for target achievements, and trust me - most of the time ridiculous targets. Sometimes when there are no positions existing at all - the recruitment consultants are asked to create database by doing head hunting and simply calling leads and asking if they are looking out in near future. The result of the above:

a) No passion within the recruitment consultant while making a call. It becomes irritating for the candidate.

b) Corporate recruiters get bugged with the resumes just being dumped. - cant help because the consultant is forced to delievr on time, and the corporate recruiter is forced to get back with quality - else just be insulted by the department / technical heads.

c) Bad consultant creates bad image for the corporate client. They forget that they need to maintain a standard while representing a corporate.

d) The corp. Recruiter has not just one or two positions...but a 100 of them (and a limited budget). In the middle of this - the consultant calls a 100 times to follow-up. Literraly a few of them suck the life out. And they speak with a scripted tone - all the 100 times.

Its not that you are looked down upon purposefully - most of them have behaved that way that the very word "consultant" can itch many at the wrong place.

But there are a few who a Corporate Recruiter would always prefer working with - because of the way they professionaly carry their business, and represent the company.

There was an instance where - in my previous company, I spoke to a candidate and when I mentioned the name of the company - he was suprised. He said an IRRITATING consultant with an artificial slang called and discussed abt the position, and never called back. On enquiring I learnt that it was one of the consultant we hired. The candidate was finally selected.

So you see - its really not beneficial most of the time and can spoil the image of the company if the Consultant is not doing his part well.
Hello HR Associates,
You've already got great replies and views from others. I am just sharing my thoughts here. Like any other slogging recruiter, I too am one of them. I understand your feelings about the treatment recruiters receive at the hands of Corporate HRs.

It’s just the human tendency to be egoistic and have that false sense of pride that you are something else when others depend on you for something beneficial for them. Here the clients, corporates, have different options for fulfilling their manpower requirements. If its not you, they have so many other consulting firms waiting to serve their requirements. This big gap in demand and supply is the major reason behind the behaviour in question.
Of course, we cannot generalize here; but most of the cases are no different.

We just have learn to live with it; there’s no way out.

I strongly feel that Consultants have an upperhand over his corporate counterpart, We get more chance to work with various domains and technologies. We get the chance to interact with whole lot of candidates who have worked on variety of technologies, Domain, Functions...etc...We are the face of market, we get the first hand information from market....So y feel inferior...feel good that we are far betta than what they are...We have the better chance of learning than our coporate counterpart, So i guess bottom line is that...."Don't bother about what they think, just be confident and positive in what eva u do"....you il reach pinnacle of success for sure... so keep rockin guyz... all the best....
Vj...
Today's situation is such that every tom dick and harry are consultants. The experience faced by corporates is generalized bcz of the doings of the consultants themselves. There is no professionalism left in consultants.
I agree that its a tough task but one shld prove onself to be diffrnt frm the rest. Most of the consultants are inexperienced which forces the corporates to build up an img. of a consultant. Everybody has to suffer due to few.
Ppl will nevr be treated the way they want to be treated.... instead, stand out among the others and see how you change the thinking of corporates
I truely feel that it is just state of mind either you be in corporate or be in consultancy.
Only thing matters is your own satisfaction with the job. End of the day I knwo for sure its no good just being a hunter or being a farmer both are required & has significant role to play.
Yes, two important aspects
A. On job learning & growth
B. Salary you earn.
if these two aspects are addressed year on year then no need to feel bad about any thing. All are required in the industry. There are corporate HR guys I know who work like dogs and get nothing also I Know recruiters who work like donkeys knowing nothing about business & requirement of the client both on functional & technical level ( just sourcing no value addtion)
Therfore only one thing is important i.e. YOU & your Sorrounding which builds your future irrespective of where you are & what you do..
Hi all,

I feel that different people have different perceptions.

And some offcourse misuse the authority. Consultants befool HRs, and HRs dont properly entertain them. Every one has a selfish purpose. But our selfishness should not harm the other person.

I myself moved from a consultancy into the mainstream.

I feel we all should respect the human element.

When we can be good to employees why can't we be good to the vendors!

I agree that consultants are often freshers with little to no insight into the core HR filed. Hence they make errors but its the responsibility of their guides to train them.

Most recruiters are under pressure to get maximum hirings done. They have a target.

So, by hook or crook, they try to meet the targets and concentrate more on quantity of candidates rather than quality of candidates.

I myself used to send as many candidates to companies as possible in light of getting more incentives. But I always focussed on quality.

At the end of the day what matters most is the planning , proper comminucation and being honest to ourselves.

HRs should call the consultants once in a while so as to convey the best possible Job description and preferences to them.

We cant blame any one for such an unethical attidue, rather we as HR and as consultant should focus on our responsibilities.

Gunjan
what i feel is that there is neither the upper hand of the consultants nor the corporate hr's... the work is to recruite and the best. well i have nt been a part of the consultancy , so cannt say but being a part of the corporate hr, at teh time of recruitment, there are some cases when literally the people dont hear u at all..which is irritating.
but my experience i just have learnt that make 100 calls a day and you get 5-10 out of them 5 turn up and 1 selected.... so have to bear and deal with the situation...
no choice left for neither cnsulatants or corporate HR's
Dear All,
Once i faced a problem from one of the recruitment consultant in India, when we gave a position of sales engineer of our Dubai and Abu Dhabi position some sales engineer who were working in our own company itself got mail,what they do is shortlist all the candidates who were working as sales engineer from naukri and send and email template which can be created in naukri itself,whoever reply they will be chased and shortlisted,poaching process!!!.
If they dont work professionally ultimately they will loose the business.Tell them we have a grading sytem,where there is a yield ration if not acheieved they will be degraded.
And HR Floks please give feed back with in 5 days atlease so that no show ratio can also be avoided.
Suresh M.G
Hi All,
I read all the comments, it looks nice to read this big, long and hard words. may be call it over shopistication.
To the fact; recruiters are not getting RESPECT.
Well, this is not 100% true. Good recruiter would have simply opposite views.
The main cause is; ARE RECRUITMENT CONSULTANTS DO THERE JOB RIGHT, DO THE WORK AS EXPECTED?
E.G. Corporate HR has 1 position to fill and the consultant sends 15-20 resumes. in 2-3 mails. Maily all resumes downloaded from naukri or monster
Oh common, consultants are highered for QUALITY of work not QUANTITY.
Corporate HR can also download resumes from naukri than why would he need you.
So, instead of helping corporate HR some consultants increase their workload and the foolish follow upss....
whts can you expect out of it.... ignorance... low respect,,,,
ASHA MATHEW HAS CORRECTLY PUT HER VIEWS ACROSS, I DO AGREE WITH IT.
.....
AIM
Hi Friends,
Here am sharing my taughts, see am also from consultacy but i got good response from candidates. every day i made atleast 30 calls but i got good response. the only thing is way of speech and how to explain the cadidate like short and sweet. now am working in corporate not hr generalised handling recruitment. In previous company i am also facing lots of problem not from candidate side only from employer side like target pressure no one realise our pain they want to achieve the targat and earn money. i know the recruiter pain but i dont know the solution for this. now industry is too worst you know the package of hr recruiter 6000 rupees now for mba with 1 years exp. some recruiter dont know how to explain the opening to candidates simply they are doing record type explanation thats why candidates wont accept consultancy they prefer company.
Consultants can become masters in recruitment and recruitment ony.But on the other hand Corporate HR/Factory HR would have handled the whole gamut of HRM which included recruitment,T&D,PMS,OD,Welfare,Housekeeping,Secuit y,Safety,ISO /SA 8000TPM/Demmings certification/TQM, Guest house maintenance,Time office function,Employee transport,Canteen management,IR situations,counseling,union negotiations,representing labour cases ,handling crisis situtations,promotions,transfers,F&F settlements,incentives etc., etc.,
Pl now decide whether consultant HR or Factory /Corporate HR does more and provide more opportunity to perform.
Consultant HR is like Test match cricket and Factory HR is like 20 /20 cricket match and Corporate HR is one day cricket match.
good discussion, but I guess its turning into a fight. HRs Vs, consultants. Lets stop blaming each other and concentrate on our roles.
Gunjan..... U said it well...... We have no right to call anyone as Bloody, yera , gera....

Even i experinced the same from the public. Their thinking style is like this....... Recruitment is the job if he or she knows the languages like English and Hindi irrespctive of his intelligence level, his qualification, and the challenge in recriutment...... and it is rated as low.... People even don't think he is the first person who understand the candiate through his resume and analyz him... and sending it to HR...

Once i said i am working as HR.... people would like to know what portfolio i am handling , is it recruitment, payroll, traiing, Pm, and wanted to judge me

Let me tell you Recruitment is the challenging job... where you have to understand a person through his resume ..... even he/she is fake or original....

Guys... please don't get disappointed....... try to learn and be poisitive instead of calling yourself as Bloody..... It hurts lots of people... who learnt their ABCD of HR from the recruitment......
Being a corporate HR head of MNC now after bitten a taste of being Manpower Consultant too after working in manufacturing and corporate sector for more than 15 years initially. My experience was not very good with a few Corporate HR people as i found them quite arrogant and suffering from superiority complex. More than 50% OF PEOPLE were good to talk and reseptive and responsive. My reading is that such behavioral traits comes from personality and experiencing bad deals with consultants.

A displaced HR person knows no other job than working as consultant to survive ?

At the same time difference will always be there being other side of the table as being source of the business (Corporates) so should realise the difference and adjust to the situation. The other point is competency of persons in the consultancy business play big role and un competent/unprofessional people remain behind left complaining of raw deal.

You see in all fields it is true why only in consultancy business.

Sundeep Wadhwa
Dear Consultants,

I do agree with your point.yes most of the corporate HRs feel like they are supremos.

but i have seen most of the HRs I had worked for the past 15 years , who can not distiguish difference between different tools, softwares and technologies.

Let me take a real example , when I am working with IGATE Bangalore as a Manager 5 years back, there is a HR (Agarwal) and she always shortlist the candidates with knowledge and not experienced where as the requirement is for experienced in automation tools in software testing(she does not know even the difference between functional and performance testing),But I am totally flattered with her people management and negotiation skill set(nobody beats her in HR world).

One of the comments by HR(Shaunak) above says How do you consider a smart HR(by considering a person who joined corporate company) what are the parameters you considered, what are the qualifications you require.

what sort of HR practices you have in mind to consider.Don't underestimate the MBa graduates and remember if they are not sourcing the profiles in time with their hard work and determination, corporates can not move ahead with their projects(for feed back you refer the infosys Hyderabad,HR department, how the consultancies are playing a key role in their department).

before criticizing the consultants, keep in mind that they are your supporters and you can not reach your targets in time with out them (this is 100% sure)(can you show me one MNC without using consultancies who had reached their 100% target in sourcing the manpower in time.)

I request all HRs once again DO NOT DO NOT Criticize consultants and don't underestimate their talents,Moreover if you want to criticize review yours.

Thanks and Regards

Vijay Raghavan

Delivery Head

IVS Practice

Infosys

Chennai
Dear Divya
Thanks for your post.
I wish we could have more HR professionals like you who are sensitive & mature to see other's point of views. Whose sense of professionalism extends beyond a narrow view of HR as a chore. I am sure you keep in mind the "Human" in the HR.
Good HR Associates
Dear Rashmi
Thanks for your post.
The corporate HR needs to think about the consultants more as partners & associates who share their burdens of delivering the right corporate image amongst prospective employees.
All said and done they of all the people should not forget the "Human" in the HR
Good HR Associates

Dear Shaunak

Thanks for your post and your valuable views.

Your First Two points 1 & 2.

Most of the professions have a career path which goes from the first rung to the Top rung. The same can be said about the level & size of the companies an average profesional proceeds to join in his career path (Let's leave the Top lot from IIT's / IIM's and other Top of the line Insitutes)

1. The "Jump" you are talking about was possible only because the Fresher earned his HR stripes at a consultancy. He became worthy enough to be recruited by a corporate with the experience he gained at the consultancy. I have been appraoched by B.E.'s / B.Tech's and MBA's for a job in our consultancy who wanted to enter HR field. So I can safely assume that entry in Consultancies is easier and gives a good work exposure to the Fresher which is worthy of a notice from the corporates.

2. The "Smart MBA" you are talking about is academically bright passing out from a good B School. What about the thousands of others who may not be as bright but have a right to a dignified job too.

I agree the Job market is favourable to Bright people but others too have the right to work with dignity.

There may be grace in admitting that others are more talented & hardworking and because of that they reached where they are. But I find no grace in bearing arrogant & unreasonable behaviour of anyone who just happens to be / is lucky to be in a place of authority. This I'll call exploitation.
  • There is no dearth of people who favour the Big & Powerful. It is easy to do!
  • There is no dearth of people who accept & tolerate their arrogance becuase they have an "upper hand".
  • There is no dearth of people who take their humiliation with a "Pinch of Salt".
It is up to you to decide if you want to be amongst this crowd or stand up and fight unreasonble behaviour and a displaced sense of importance amongst corporate HR.

My backdrop / Background is nothing apart from the sad situation all the Good & competent consultants are in beacause of Bad corporate HR & Bad Recruitment consutlants. We are suffering fools & I don't want to do that gladly.

Your suggestion of going to the Top brass of HR is good, but then you risk antagonizing the rank & file and loose the Job Orders.

Remember , even the Top brass is depending on these people to deliver for them and make them look good. They are the one's who may have seleced them in the first place! So I see little hope.

In our case we try ironing out the situation with a professional approach and then dump the client if they don't act professionally.

Good HR Associates


Dear Shaunak

Thanks for your post and your valuable views.

Your First Two points 1 & 2.

Most of the professions have a career path which goes from the first rung to the Top rung. The same can be said about the level & size of the companies an average profesional proceeds to join in his career path (Let's leave the Top lot from IIT's / IIM's and other Top of the line Insitutes)

1. The "Jump" you are talking about was possible only because the Fresher earned his HR stripes at a consultancy. He became worthy enough to be recruited by a corporate with the experience he gained at the consultancy. I have been appraoched by B.E.'s / B.Tech's and MBA's for a job in our consultancy who wanted to enter HR field. So I can safely assume that entry in Consultancies is easier and gives a good work exposure to the Fresher which is worthy of a notice from the corporates.

2. The "Smart MBA" you are talking about is academically bright passing out from a good B School. What about the thousands of others who may not be as bright but have a right to a dignified job too.

I agree the Job market is favourable to Bright people but others too have the right to work with dignity.

There may be grace in admitting that others are more talented & hardworking and because of that they reached where they are. But I find no grace in bearing arrogant & unreasonable behaviour of anyone who just happens to be / is lucky to be in a place of authority. This I'll call exploitation.
  • There is no dearth of people who favour the Big & Powerful. It is easy to do!
  • There is no dearth of people who accept & tolerate their arrogance becuase they have an "upper hand".
  • There is no dearth of people who take their humiliation with a "Pinch of Salt".
It is up to you to decide if you want to be amongst this crowd or stand up and fight unreasonble behaviour and a displaced sense of importance amongst corporate HR.

My backdrop / Background is nothing apart from the sad situation all the Good & competent consultants are in beacause of Bad corporate HR & Bad Recruitment consutlants. We are suffering fools & I don't want to do that gladly.

Your suggestion of going to the Top brass of HR is good, but then you risk antagonizing the rank & file and loose the Job Orders.

Remember , even the Top brass is depending on these people to deliver for them and make them look good. They are the one's who may have seleced them in the first place! So I see little hope.

In our case we try ironing out the situation with a professional approach and then dump the client if they don't act professionally.

Good HR Associates



Dear Asha

Thanks for the post.

Most of your points are an excellent insight into how things are at present.

The problem is that some of extremely competent & professional Consultants are meted out the same treatment despite proving their professionalism in handling recruitments, promoting Employer branding etc. We don't bug the client for feedbacks have extremely competent & mature Consultants. We follow extremely client sensitive processes...

What do we do with these HR managers who do not know their Job. One of the AGM's of a leading Telecom company once gave us just the designation and expected us to find suitbale candidates. On asking about the KRA's , JD, Candidate profile, Reporting structure and other competencies we should keep in mind, he was clue less. He boasts of 7 yrs in the Telecom HR !!

What do we do with him??

What about bad behaviour & discourtesy meted out to even senior candidates at the corporate offices , leave alone junio candidates..Now I guess onus of spoiling Employer branding is on the corporate HR's & theri policies!!

Good HR Associates
Dear Tony
Thanks for your post & views.
You are right. It basically boils down to the instinct of feeding the ego. I pity those with a false sense of importance & big Egos as it is a surefire sign of over compensating for a sense of inferiority & worthlessness.
I haven't seen any self assured, person with bloated ego.
Let's pray that god be with them and show them a way to respect themselves despite their shortcomings!
Good HR Associates
Dear VJ
Thanks for your post and views.
What a marvellous and positve attitude you have towards the situation!! I salute your positve spirit and learn a lesson from it today. It sure was heart warming little post :)
Please keep the same spirit up if & when you join the corporate. Please select your consultants carefully & extend them the professional courtesy they are worthy of.
Good HR Associates
Dear Ashlesha
Thanks for your post & views.
I realize that there may not be many consultants who are just "Shops". But the onus of selecting the right consultant after a proper meeting & understading of the consultants competencies & professionalism lies with the corporate HR.
Why do the Corporate HR hire such vendors in the first place. Are they not competent in selecting the vendors? I don't think it is such a big & complicated task.
Good HR Associates

Dear Niku
Thanks for your post & forthright views.
I agree with most of what you have said. I just want to raise the issue of a Human courtsey which should be extended to the consultants ( If not professional courtsey). Good consultants just need a level playing & ethical treatment.
Considering hypthetically that the Corporate HR is the more evolved of the species, more educated, more civilized etc, a basic courtsey is all the more expected.
This is what the issue is baout. - Extending basic courtsies to maintain a good working relationship with Good consultants. If the consultant is not professional, discontinue his services by all means.
Good HR Associates

Dear Gunjan
Thanks for your post.
Your views are extremely balanced & objective. Kudos to your mature thinking, empathy & understanding all points of views.
All I can say here is we need more people like you in the corporate HR.
Please do keep infecting others with your attitude & thoughts!
Good HR Associates

Dear Amish
Thanks for your post and views.
Again I would like to reiterate that the corporate HR needs to select its vendors with care.
May I tell you that I have seen the the corporate HR's have not been able to find candidates using Naukri. We have many times closed positions finding candidates from naukri / Monster which the client had already searched.
Expectations: Many times corporate HR do not know / are NOT clear them selves about position / JD / Candidate profile etc. They keep changing the JD.
Perhaps you may have not come across a consultant who will out do you in all departments of recruiting.
The requirement is that of mutual respect , learning from each other, courtsey and bit of tolerance of human errors & shortcomings.
Good HR Associates.

Dear Friend
It was refreshing to see you comparing the whole thing with formats of cricket!
The question here is not about who works harder or more, but of respect for each others efforts, professional competence, ethical behaviour and working as a team, learning & growing together as professionals in the business of HR.
Discourtsey to consutants is pain point for them. Please show Human courtsey atleast if you can't show professional courtsey due to a perceived incompetence on part of the consultant.
Keep in mind the "Human" in HR!
Good HR Associates

Dear Vinod
Is there anything unethical about trying a business? Are they stealing from anyone? Are they cheating?
Everyone has a right and freedom to choose a business, profession & vocation. If they are not competent, they will have to clsoe down sooner than later.
Your job is only to spot such consultants and avoid them. Select the good ones to work for you ( if you are good at vendoer selection that is..) But you can't ridicule anyone's efforts and enterprise.
Long time back one such "yera gaira" used to sell cut piece on his bicycle carier and tried to start a textile business.
This "yera gaira" was Shri Dhirubhai Ambani.
Good HR Associates

Dear Creation
Thanks for your post.
Till such time the Corporate HR starts treating the consultants with respect this debate will continue. The advise to Corporate HR is please ROOT OUT incompetent consultants.
Give level playing field to Good / Professional consultants, be ethical ( don't cheat them / take advantage of their services) and you will see this debate dying out for ever.
Good HR Associates

Hello
I am just addressing to the one I have highlighted in red.
We hire consultantss to do the task that we are NOT able to do. Not to do what we are DOING.
So - your point is a lame excuse.
And BTW - had the corporate HR known to describe the KRAs and neatly get the specifics done - mind you, they will not turn to consultants.
Know the industry, know the profile - core reqmnt, and you need to design a set of KRAs and create a niche for urself saying "Hey look, this is our way of screening and we reduce the time you sepnd on recruiting...so HIRE us for more assignments"
Thats the message you need to send.
Pls dont think that a consultants job is to just get the JD, KRAs and then go and hunt for profiles. If it were such, I could always hire freelancers and get this done!
Think on what you can do - not what others can do to make you perform.
And this Dhirubhai Ambani did not complain that others were not treating him the way he wanted to be treated. He did his part - and the world watched him!
Dear Consultant,

I am sorry that it is going to be little straight but somehow i dont have the same opinon, i dont want to be biased at all in my judgement as i myself has worked as a consultant & currently working as corporate HR.
I do agree that the HR are sometime rude but let all of us accept that there are N number of consultants who hire inefficient staff & they even without understanding job profile call any candidate & send them for interview which finally is a point for irritation & waste of time for the HR & candidate both. Above that whenever HR share any opening with them they keep calling them for one reason or the other, they dont think that HR has lots of other works to do also not only recruitment which may be more important & urgent in nature.....

I personally is experiencing such situation that one of my consultant has at least 8 staff in their office & they share all the opening with all the staff. Therefore HR has to reply all of them seperately in case of any query they dont have any single contact person, even if yout tell one person to communicate the same to rest of their team still each of them call up & ask personally & take confirmation......

Other than above i can tell alot other reason which makes HR to think so....

Correct me if you guys think otherwise....

Regards

Shikha jain
Hi Asha

Thanks for you points. I agree with some of them.

What you said - That may be true in some cases, but a lot of time I have seen clients draw a blank when we enquire about the image they have planned to project amongst prospective applicants. Their USP to attract the top talent etc etc.(and we are talking about senior Management here and not Front line Sales people) When they draw a NIL on this, we create a plan for their campaign and send it to them. Needless to say they are overjoyed with our research and home work, but soon they fall back to their old ways and old games. Many times I have seen the HR managers take the credit for the employer branding which we wrote & planned for them. What do you say to that?

Again I would ref to your point marked in Red. It is the company which sets the KRA's & the JD of the position. The client is running the company & the operations, they know & should know what exactly they need. They know theri future plans, re structuring taking place, new markets and unique skill sets they need to execute the tasks.

What you are saying is like telling a shopkeeper when you visit a shop "Please decide what I need"!! You are the shopkeeper you should know what I need in my house!!

We have many times offered to visit and meet the Technical / Line / Functional managers to get a clear picture of the Job and create the Candidate profile. But the HR managers have always discouraged us..I wonder why?

We have many times taught the corporate difference between various technologies and what exactly they need. They verified from the Technical people and we were proved right. Then what role is the corporate HR playing if they don't know what their own organisation needs, leave alone the industry! What are they....glorified post boxes?

I know some Good HR people who really know theri job and we have immense respect for them. But we can't respect you JUST because you are a client / HR Manager if you don't know your job.

Whoile lot of Management jargon will not serve the purpose.

I have already mentioned that please root out incompetent consultants. In the same way good corporate HR must condemn Bad corporate HR. Simple!

Again I have a feeling that you have already decided that we don't know much about the companies we work for and the industries.
Let me tell you you'll be surprised how much I would be able tell you about your own company and its future plans, if we take you up as a client! But then you'll tell me "Oh but you are supposed to know all that"..but the HR Manager / Executives have the privielege of being ignorant about their own job!!??

I guess with 18 Years of experience in the corporate world with premier companies at senior positions in HR & Admin roles I still need help from HR Executives to perform.

Asha, I'll think about it !!

Good HR Associates



I understand that the "complaints" prick your conscious. They make you uncomfortable and hot under your collar. You become red faced facing the truth and some how you want everyone to just please shut up and let things carry on as they are happening.
...And the HR advocates about L&D, continual improvement & teach ethics in their organizations...strange!!
Yes, He never complained, but he did stuff their pockets with money to shut them up. Then..No body complained!!
We can do that too and everyone will be happy. Specially the corporate HR. Now please don't say in this forum that HR Mangers don't take commission to close positions, people will laugh :icon6:
Good Corporate HR

Dear Shikha
If you have read all my replies you will note that I am strongly advocating AGAINST taking incompetent consultants on board. Please don't work with them. Please evaluate the consultant before hiring him.
Did you talk to the consultant about his inernal processes and various nitty gritties before hiring him? If no...Why? Whose job is that?
On the other hand if the consutant is keen to improve and learn, you just need to give him some feedback about your way of working and if he is competent he will adopt his process accordingly.
That is where empathy, understanding the the "Human" in HR comes into play.
I have met HR Managers in Big companies who have not been able to ask me the right questions and evaluate me & the consultancy
Good HR Associates

Another thought.

Dhirubhai was doing business for his own good and he did it his way. I am concerned about the entire consultant fraternity. Their humiliation at the hands of arrogant Corporate HR Managers is saddening & frustrating.

What I am trying to do is raise a Voice against those Corporate HR professionals who are insensitive, arrogant, exploitative and corrupt.

You have raised a voice against female insecurity. Though I am a male. I support it whole heartedly. I appreciate that this is your major concern. I appreciate your guts and endeavour. I understand you & empathize with you.

All I am saying is please extend common courtsey to atleast the Good Consultants, please don't exploit them, please don't use them, give where credit is due help them make an Honest living.

We are damn good consultants, clean, efficient, ethical, professional, cllients praise us but still exploit us & humiliate us when they feel like it.

This is not done. This needs to change. This WILL change

Good HR Associates


Good HR Associates
Pray, GO ON.
Its a good start. Pl. keep the movement a-going.
Btw I belong to Corporate HR; but I agree with you.
I would rather use the term Organizational HR (as opposed to Consultancy HR); and let me assure you this treatment is not reserved for just your kind; but HR in real life is mostly In-Human. They treat prospective employees, present employee and past employees the same way; what to talk about Outsiders like you.
They are particularly harsh on you people, because they think:
- you earn easy money (a month's salary for practically doing nothing, except making a few calls) :-x
- you hire just "fresh graduates" and run a "sweat shop". :-x
- how can they interact at the same level with 'low-qualified" people from your agency ? :icon7:
- they "pay" you ! So aren't they SUPERIOR ? :icon7:
- they are the CUSTOMERS. So shouldn't they be treated like KINGs? :(
Regards.
Oops...so much emotions!!

Anyways moving back to what you put as shop keeper (lets take garments)- there is a difference between an ordinary garment shop sales person, and a designer wear collection gallery. Do you get what I try to say? Designer collection may already have collections that suit the individuals taste - else, sometimes the consultant there - tries to explain and correct the customer in telling her what exactly suits her and sometimes they go in for custom - made clothing.

Now there is no point in you screaming over here. Just like how you request to REMOVE consultants who dont work professionally, I ask you to remove clients who dont have proper work ethics.

Look Sir / Ma'am! You cant blame someone else if you are not getting the business the WAY you prefer it to be. YOU need to change the mindset of the Corporate poeple, not by just complaining, but by proving through your work.

I dont know if people would laugh here if I say that I DONT KNOW that HR people take commission. Bad if you have known it. Probably you have been doing it.

I love the History of Ambani - not because I got to learn that you need to stuff the money in someone's pocket, because I learnt that "If you love something, love it such a way that you get it the way you want it. But in that process, never shout abt your weakness, or complain abt anyone. Do it in a style that no-one ever knew that you went thru such difficult phases".

If this is how the consulting business is... you should try to create a niche for yourself. Not fall in the category of all those who complaint abt their clients.;-)

Its not just HR processes... be it ANY industry...such things happen.

The Supplier, vendors... consultants (in any field) are treated only on the way they interact. We have 200 suppliers giving us competitive proposals....but we chose the one which has a good working history, with quality work delivery.

I have nothing to do with being angry and suprised over the truth. Should that matter to me? But you seem to be defeding yourself and thanking everyone who empathises you.

What makes you different from other consultants? Dont tell by yourself, make your client talk abt you to others....
Dear Asha
There are some universal truths. Rights & wrongs. Ethical practices & unethical practices. Decency & indecency. Corrupt & Uncorrupt, No body can have an "opinion" on these things. You can only take side of some one you identify with.
Ya. as you said...don't complain about anything, don't protest about exploitation, don't complain about slavery (we would still have been slaves if we thought the way you do!!)...great
THEN PLEASE...
...don't complian about Female Insecurity!!
...don't raise your voice!!
I am presuming from your views that you may not have much experience (1 - 2 Yrs?)and that too in 1 -2 companaies in the hiring process or a bit more... and you need to see a lot more happening before you can really understand...what's going on.
Let's finish the discussion here.
Good HR Associates

Good HR Associates,
Hahaha... the conversation supposed to go till the corporate HR changes their behaviour....
(Don't effort to presume...FYI - I have experience with 5 companies & thats in 5 different countries.)
Dear Asha,
Better to leave this person and conversaion... May god will bless him to understand the indepth purpose/ meaning of views you shared.
..... Regards,
AIM
Yes - don complain, Act boss!



Pls don compare female insecurity to the way corporates treat staffing consultant. Lame excuse.:icon2:



When did I say that one should not protest against slavery? (don make up stories, esp when you are hyper emotional):mrgreen:



I seriously feel that - you feel under estimated:unsure:. You are waiting for someone to give you a chance:-?. Again I am not blaming you, I am asking you to change the strategy - Instead of saying "Hey why you are treating consultants like this..." change it to "Hey yes - we are not like other consultants.."8)



Simple...change the way people Look at you, not at the whole consultant list!:roll:



My consultants (infact previous co ones), are so spl to me, and we just have the perfect relationship. There exists such consultants too! always in our good books. ETA , is one of them.

Two other consultants too...well more than the name of the company I remember their names - that is the relation we have! They make work really intersting for us too, and "no craps and complaints". very professional and direct.



Hmm abt my experience - you are VERY correct. 2 yrs exp.

One yr as a consultant with a leading ISO certified company (u see - we had always differentiated ourselves from other consultants, and had created a niche for ourselves)...I still receive a good nod when I tell ppl I worked there. So -I am talking to you as a lady who has exp in both - as a consulatnt and an ordinary corporate recruiter (very simple, very low level)



- but all that matters is not YEARS - its the usage of the head and learning to act accordingly. Yes many of us fall in between, but we can ask for a helping hand..not blame the mud!



Even now I am saying, think differently. Position urself differently, no one will put u in the group of consultants who are doing a bad job.... goodluck!





It is so obvious with your words of comparision to VAFI how "grown" with the number of years you are!

God knows if you had the nerve to check what VAFI is abt..


NBSP!






Hi Your communication made it evident that you had experience in Bangladesh, Uganda, Bhutan, Ethiopia & Libiya! For your next posting in Honolulu...Best of Luck!:icon6: Good HR Associates
Dear ALL,
This is getting v. v. interesting, enlightening..... (not to mention a bit personal).
To be honest, there is a lot of LEARNING involved here.
For the first time CONSULTANT Vs CORP. HR relationship is being explored here, threadbare; no-holds-barred.
Please continue.
As on today, perhaps this is the most novel, new, different topic under discussion in this forum. Real learning taking place.
Regards.
Dear Mr. Raj,
If you notice one thing that is very obvious - Good HR associates is trying to highlight abt the corp HR people being bad.
And he / she thanks people who empathize / sympatize with him/her
Finally the way he/she had responded to Amish Bhatt itself says "why on earth would any corporate client want to work with such a consultant?"
Definitely this GHA would be out of my list of screening for good consultants!

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