Hi seniors,
I'm working as an HR manager in the hotel industry in Mumbai. In our organization, we have two types of employees: temporary and probation/confirmed employees. When we recruit a new employee for a junior position such as a bellboy, housekeeping boy, or steward, we initially place them on a temporary period for 3-4 months to assess their suitability. During this probationary period, we do not issue them an appointment letter, salary slip, ID card, leaves, PF, ESIC, or income tax deductions. If the employee proves satisfactory within this period, we provide them with all these documents and a fresh appointment letter. We follow this practice due to the high attrition rate in the hotel industry for junior staff.
Seniors, please advise whether our current approach is appropriate or if it needs to be revised to comply with labor laws.
Gaurav.
From India, Pune
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5I'm working as an HR manager in the hotel industry in Mumbai. In our organization, we have two types of employees: temporary and probation/confirmed employees. When we recruit a new employee for a junior position such as a bellboy, housekeeping boy, or steward, we initially place them on a temporary period for 3-4 months to assess their suitability. During this probationary period, we do not issue them an appointment letter, salary slip, ID card, leaves, PF, ESIC, or income tax deductions. If the employee proves satisfactory within this period, we provide them with all these documents and a fresh appointment letter. We follow this practice due to the high attrition rate in the hotel industry for junior staff.
Seniors, please advise whether our current approach is appropriate or if it needs to be revised to comply with labor laws.
Gaurav.
From India, Pune
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I think it's not right because if a person appointed for temporary or trial purposes commits any crime like theft, etc., then how will you prove that he was your employee in front of the police or the law? It's totally illegal and can give rise to many troubles. HR personnel will be in trouble for doing things like these because if anything serious happens, then HR personnel will be questioned for any trouble created by them.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Gaurav, this is unacceptable what is being done to temporary employees as PF/ESIC is deducted from day one of employment, no matter if the employee is on contract, probation, or permanent. This might be the reason for high attrition as they aren't treated as employees.
From India, Gurgaon
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From India, Gurgaon
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Dear friend,
Don't keep any employee without an appointment letter, ESI, PF since you are in Maharashtra, wherein the PULP Act is very serious. Issue an appointment order to them with a clause of a probation period for one year/six months, and the confirmation is based on their best performance with the ultimate satisfaction of the management.
If they are found suitable after a year/six months probation, issue them a confirmation of service letter with an increment in pay and let them continue in service as a permanent employee. Otherwise, terminate them with a letter stating that their performance during the period was not satisfactory to the management. (Here, you may have documentary proof of their poor performance by keeping a test).
From India, Madras
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Don't keep any employee without an appointment letter, ESI, PF since you are in Maharashtra, wherein the PULP Act is very serious. Issue an appointment order to them with a clause of a probation period for one year/six months, and the confirmation is based on their best performance with the ultimate satisfaction of the management.
If they are found suitable after a year/six months probation, issue them a confirmation of service letter with an increment in pay and let them continue in service as a permanent employee. Otherwise, terminate them with a letter stating that their performance during the period was not satisfactory to the management. (Here, you may have documentary proof of their poor performance by keeping a test).
From India, Madras
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Dear Sam Dsouza,
Every company has a different mode of action on the employee recruitment process. As your problem is part of this process.
From a legal standpoint, it is not a good practice as you have adopted. However, there may be instances where I also have to recruit some temporary staff on a contract basis. In that case, our organization hires people through resource companies with a mutual agreement.
The agreement highlights two main points:
1) The sole responsibility will be undertaken by the service provider, and
2) We can also recruit the same person into our organization after paying the agreed contribution (the contribution amount will vary according to the profile of the employee working in our organization in good faith).
I can send you a copy of the agreement if required.
Mannu Negi
From India, Delhi
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Every company has a different mode of action on the employee recruitment process. As your problem is part of this process.
From a legal standpoint, it is not a good practice as you have adopted. However, there may be instances where I also have to recruit some temporary staff on a contract basis. In that case, our organization hires people through resource companies with a mutual agreement.
The agreement highlights two main points:
1) The sole responsibility will be undertaken by the service provider, and
2) We can also recruit the same person into our organization after paying the agreed contribution (the contribution amount will vary according to the profile of the employee working in our organization in good faith).
I can send you a copy of the agreement if required.
Mannu Negi
From India, Delhi
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Hi Gaurav,
In this case, you need to give them an offer letter stating that you will be in a probationary period for a certain number of months. Based on your performance, you will then be given an appointment letter and other benefits. However, if something goes wrong during working hours, then you may be held accountable. For example, if your employee meets with an accident, it's better not to take any chances. I would suggest being cautious in such situations.
From India, Pune
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In this case, you need to give them an offer letter stating that you will be in a probationary period for a certain number of months. Based on your performance, you will then be given an appointment letter and other benefits. However, if something goes wrong during working hours, then you may be held accountable. For example, if your employee meets with an accident, it's better not to take any chances. I would suggest being cautious in such situations.
From India, Pune
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Hi Gaurav,
I am not much fond of the labor laws, but through my regular learning, I can agree with the answers given by a few of our HR colleagues.
What would you do if something mischievous happens by an employee whom you cannot prove is your employee?
Usually, in most companies, even if the employee is on a contract basis, an offer letter has to be issued, which states that he will be on the contract payroll for some time, and then he could be made permanent based on performance.
There is no harm if you could release an offer letter to the employee (contract).
Once the employee joins your hotel, you can get the relevant signatures - of course, not much paperwork is required for this. It's just to ensure that you will not face any legal issues.
Even though the employee is off-role, companies are supposed to pay PF and ESI or whatever is mandated nowadays, and for this, there is a salary grid as well. It's better if you could refer to any postings related to Provident Fund by our CITEHR colleagues so that you can have much more clarity on this.
- Gowtam
From India, Hyderabad
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I am not much fond of the labor laws, but through my regular learning, I can agree with the answers given by a few of our HR colleagues.
What would you do if something mischievous happens by an employee whom you cannot prove is your employee?
Usually, in most companies, even if the employee is on a contract basis, an offer letter has to be issued, which states that he will be on the contract payroll for some time, and then he could be made permanent based on performance.
There is no harm if you could release an offer letter to the employee (contract).
Once the employee joins your hotel, you can get the relevant signatures - of course, not much paperwork is required for this. It's just to ensure that you will not face any legal issues.
Even though the employee is off-role, companies are supposed to pay PF and ESI or whatever is mandated nowadays, and for this, there is a salary grid as well. It's better if you could refer to any postings related to Provident Fund by our CITEHR colleagues so that you can have much more clarity on this.
- Gowtam
From India, Hyderabad
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hi this is totally against HR practices & legal compliances. if something happens to them, who is going to answer ??? Regards manish
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Your organization is having extremely bad HR practices. Whatever the attrition rate may be, your organization cannot play with the life and career of humans. For example, if someone dies or something wrong happens in the workplace during working hours, as they do not have any probation/appointment letter, they won't be treated as an employee in the court of law and are not liable for any statutory and mediclaim benefits. This is a complete exploitation of workers and is not a good organization for you to learn fair HR practices.
Regards,
Debasis Panigrahi
From India, Bangalore
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Regards,
Debasis Panigrahi
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Mr. Gaurav,
It is very true that the attrition rate is very high in the hotel industry. There are several reasons behind this type of environment:
a. Not very highly educated
b. Belonging to the low middle class
c. Ambition for Five Star Hotels
d. Etc.
For these reasons, individuals often join smaller hotels for initial exposure and then move on to bigger hotels like Leela or Hayat in cities like Mumbai after a few months.
Best regards,
From India, Mumbai
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It is very true that the attrition rate is very high in the hotel industry. There are several reasons behind this type of environment:
a. Not very highly educated
b. Belonging to the low middle class
c. Ambition for Five Star Hotels
d. Etc.
For these reasons, individuals often join smaller hotels for initial exposure and then move on to bigger hotels like Leela or Hayat in cities like Mumbai after a few months.
Best regards,
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Friend,
Please familiarize yourself with the laws of the land and refrain from following such policies, despite any pressure from higher-ups. This is illegal and goes against the labor laws of our country.
Regards,
Anil K. Gupta
From India, Ludhiana
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Please familiarize yourself with the laws of the land and refrain from following such policies, despite any pressure from higher-ups. This is illegal and goes against the labor laws of our country.
Regards,
Anil K. Gupta
From India, Ludhiana
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Hi Gaurav,
Ours is a software development company. We also recruit freshers as "Trainee Software Consultants" wherein we clearly specify that their performance is reviewed every fortnight for three months. If their performance is found inadequate in two performance reviews, their contract will be terminated.
We also specify that "As per the terms and conditions discussed for offering you this contract, you have agreed..."
Hope this will help you. :icon1:
Thank you,
From India, Hyderabad
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Ours is a software development company. We also recruit freshers as "Trainee Software Consultants" wherein we clearly specify that their performance is reviewed every fortnight for three months. If their performance is found inadequate in two performance reviews, their contract will be terminated.
We also specify that "As per the terms and conditions discussed for offering you this contract, you have agreed..."
Hope this will help you. :icon1:
Thank you,
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Gawrav,
It seems that everybody is not accepting your practice. Why not change that, as most of them recommend recruiting on a probation basis? I too, in "Gowrawayan," ask you to protect the people's equity and rights.
Thanks
From Sri Lanka
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It seems that everybody is not accepting your practice. Why not change that, as most of them recommend recruiting on a probation basis? I too, in "Gowrawayan," ask you to protect the people's equity and rights.
Thanks
From Sri Lanka
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Hi all,
I recently joined a company as an HR. Before my joining, there was no HRD in this company. I also found that many employees are being paid by vouchers and have not been given appointment letters, PF, ESI, or at least Group Insurance Accident Policies. I have formulated a policy on recruitment and proposed that appointment letters be given to all the employees, but the company is not ready to take all the employees onto the rolls. They want to categorize some as consultants and others as contract-based employees.
In brief, I want to know how employees are classified (permanent, contract, consultant, etc.) and the different types of appointment letters to be given to each type of employee.
Vissu
From India, Hyderabad
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I recently joined a company as an HR. Before my joining, there was no HRD in this company. I also found that many employees are being paid by vouchers and have not been given appointment letters, PF, ESI, or at least Group Insurance Accident Policies. I have formulated a policy on recruitment and proposed that appointment letters be given to all the employees, but the company is not ready to take all the employees onto the rolls. They want to categorize some as consultants and others as contract-based employees.
In brief, I want to know how employees are classified (permanent, contract, consultant, etc.) and the different types of appointment letters to be given to each type of employee.
Vissu
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi Buddy,
I'm not a very experienced person in HR; however, I would like to suggest that your organization is not treating employees well, and they do not feel secure. When employees join your organization, they have the right to satisfaction, which is essential for any employee. Your organization does have the authority to terminate employees during the probation period if they are not satisfied with performance. To address this, you should provide them with an appointment letter stating they are on probation for a specific period and that their probation may be extended if management deems necessary. Treating them as valued employees will help reduce the attrition rate in your organization.
Another important aspect for HR to consider is maintaining detailed records of all employees, whether they are on contract, probation, or permanent status. This is crucial as any employee could potentially cause harm to the organization or to others within the organization. Having detailed records and evidence of the employee's status will help in resolving any issues that may arise.
Regards,
Rachna 🌟
From India, New Delhi
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I'm not a very experienced person in HR; however, I would like to suggest that your organization is not treating employees well, and they do not feel secure. When employees join your organization, they have the right to satisfaction, which is essential for any employee. Your organization does have the authority to terminate employees during the probation period if they are not satisfied with performance. To address this, you should provide them with an appointment letter stating they are on probation for a specific period and that their probation may be extended if management deems necessary. Treating them as valued employees will help reduce the attrition rate in your organization.
Another important aspect for HR to consider is maintaining detailed records of all employees, whether they are on contract, probation, or permanent status. This is crucial as any employee could potentially cause harm to the organization or to others within the organization. Having detailed records and evidence of the employee's status will help in resolving any issues that may arise.
Regards,
Rachna 🌟
From India, New Delhi
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The costs of employee turnover can be extremely high. Employees leave jobs for many reasons, including dissatisfaction with job duties, the desire for higher wages, or the wish to enter a new career. If employees leave for these reasons, executives may want to reconsider the selection process by asking themselves these questions:
- Was the position accurately defined?
- Were the hotel and the position clearly and fully explained to the applicant before he/she was hired?
- Did the executive obtain complete, accurate information about the applicant before hiring him/her?
You may consider using a temporary agency. Temporary agencies can provide staff to fill a wide range of positions. They often train their employees to fill specific needs. The hourly rate charged for temporary employees will probably be higher than the rate paid to permanent hourly employees, but these costs are usually offset in other ways. They can:
- Supply capable help quickly, helping to reduce overtime, recruitment, and hiring expenses.
- Employ workers whom they have screened and trained.
- Can often supply an entire supervised crew of workers when necessary.
Temporary employees are usually not trained in appropriate or specific procedures. This can render such workers less productive than a property's own staff. Temporary workers, too, often require more supervision.
Regards,
John
From China, Shanghai
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- Was the position accurately defined?
- Were the hotel and the position clearly and fully explained to the applicant before he/she was hired?
- Did the executive obtain complete, accurate information about the applicant before hiring him/her?
You may consider using a temporary agency. Temporary agencies can provide staff to fill a wide range of positions. They often train their employees to fill specific needs. The hourly rate charged for temporary employees will probably be higher than the rate paid to permanent hourly employees, but these costs are usually offset in other ways. They can:
- Supply capable help quickly, helping to reduce overtime, recruitment, and hiring expenses.
- Employ workers whom they have screened and trained.
- Can often supply an entire supervised crew of workers when necessary.
Temporary employees are usually not trained in appropriate or specific procedures. This can render such workers less productive than a property's own staff. Temporary workers, too, often require more supervision.
Regards,
John
From China, Shanghai
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hi seniors, I want to the know the difference between management & HR. I also know more about the function of hr department. shamlin
From Bangladesh
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From Bangladesh
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Hi All,
The same issue is being faced by one of my friends who himself is working as an HR but has not received any offer letter or appointment letter. He has been working for the past three months and has not been given his salary as well. What can he do? Whenever he asks about it, he is told that it will be done. So, what should he do?
I advised him to resign with immediate effect. However, considering the current bad market situation, he is worried about not getting another job. How would he justify the gap in his employment? He also anticipates facing stability issues when seeking a change.
Please suggest some effective measures so that I can assist him.
Regards,
Kshipra
From India, Delhi
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The same issue is being faced by one of my friends who himself is working as an HR but has not received any offer letter or appointment letter. He has been working for the past three months and has not been given his salary as well. What can he do? Whenever he asks about it, he is told that it will be done. So, what should he do?
I advised him to resign with immediate effect. However, considering the current bad market situation, he is worried about not getting another job. How would he justify the gap in his employment? He also anticipates facing stability issues when seeking a change.
Please suggest some effective measures so that I can assist him.
Regards,
Kshipra
From India, Delhi
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Did you establish any internal rules that are similar to external rules? If so, there is no need to worry; internal rules are crucial. You can issue a temporary offer letter or appointment letter. Please check the labor laws regarding wages.
Riyaz
From India, Delhi
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Riyaz
From India, Delhi
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According to the law, it is stated that you must appoint various types of employees such as temporary, probation, contract, piece-rate, etc. All are covered under ESI, EPF, Bonus, and the appointment order should be given to the related employees. Even if an employee works for just one day, you should adhere to all these requirements.
With regards,
A. Sankar
Manager - HR
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With regards,
A. Sankar
Manager - HR
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Can I ask a question, is it like this?
That month, on 1/9/08, I signed two letters (appointment and confirmation) in front of my Taiwanese boss. After I finished signing, I asked my accountant (a local woman) why she didn't give me a copy of the appointment letter and confirmation. The accountant said that she wouldn't give me a copy because she was afraid that we would use the letter for malicious purposes.
My question is, "Isn't it the company's right to not give me both of the letters?"
Please help me, it's very urgent!!! :(:(:(:?::?::?::?::!::!::!:
From Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
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That month, on 1/9/08, I signed two letters (appointment and confirmation) in front of my Taiwanese boss. After I finished signing, I asked my accountant (a local woman) why she didn't give me a copy of the appointment letter and confirmation. The accountant said that she wouldn't give me a copy because she was afraid that we would use the letter for malicious purposes.
My question is, "Isn't it the company's right to not give me both of the letters?"
Please help me, it's very urgent!!! :(:(:(:?::?::?::?::!::!::!:
From Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
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Dear Friends, Can you give me sample of Salary statement employees working more than 50 no’s? it will help me out to change my career. Thanks Abdul Wahid
From Bahrain
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From Bahrain
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hi gaurav. u should be give appointment letter / offer letter at the time of joining to them regards shayra
From India, Ahmadabad
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From India, Ahmadabad
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Dear Friends, Can you give me sample of Salary statement employees working more than 50 no’s? it will help me out to change my career. Thanks, Rupali.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Hi Gaurav,
Viewing the quotes of all seniors and experts, I would like to suggest that you consider hiring an outsourcing organization for Temporary Staffing or Contract Staffing, including their total statutory compliance. We are a leading player in such type of staffing in today's scenario. For more information, you can reach me at 99675 98731. Looking forward to your call.
Regards, Jatin.
From India, Mumbai
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Viewing the quotes of all seniors and experts, I would like to suggest that you consider hiring an outsourcing organization for Temporary Staffing or Contract Staffing, including their total statutory compliance. We are a leading player in such type of staffing in today's scenario. For more information, you can reach me at 99675 98731. Looking forward to your call.
Regards, Jatin.
From India, Mumbai
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Hi all,
Can anyone please clarify if it is possible for a company to pay a fixed salary to its employees by check without any PF being paid or tax deductions? Whatever is agreed upon is paid monthly through a check. Is this an acceptable practice?
Regards,
Shalini
From India, Bangalore
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Can anyone please clarify if it is possible for a company to pay a fixed salary to its employees by check without any PF being paid or tax deductions? Whatever is agreed upon is paid monthly through a check. Is this an acceptable practice?
Regards,
Shalini
From India, Bangalore
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HI Can you please send me a sample of an appointment letter as an accountant, I am waiting your quick response. Regards, Udagam
From Australia, Monterey
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From Australia, Monterey
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Dear Gaurav,
It is totally against the Factory Act, whenever u recruits somebody whether he is on temp or regular you a liable to pay his PF, ESI, and Bonus as per the act.
It is your responsibility.
You do one thing first you go through with your standing orders what has been written on it whether there is any thing written about the confirmation of the employees, if so you draft a appointment letter taking the reference from the standing orders mentioned under so and so clause you are on probation period for so and so month after that your services will be confirmed, and if your services was not satisfactory in this period your probation period will be increased by 3 month or your services will be terminated with immediate effect.
Regard’s
Ajay Desai
From India, Calcutta
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It is totally against the Factory Act, whenever u recruits somebody whether he is on temp or regular you a liable to pay his PF, ESI, and Bonus as per the act.
It is your responsibility.
You do one thing first you go through with your standing orders what has been written on it whether there is any thing written about the confirmation of the employees, if so you draft a appointment letter taking the reference from the standing orders mentioned under so and so clause you are on probation period for so and so month after that your services will be confirmed, and if your services was not satisfactory in this period your probation period will be increased by 3 month or your services will be terminated with immediate effect.
Regard’s
Ajay Desai
From India, Calcutta
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Dear Gaurav,
You keep all temporary staff through a CONTRACTOR, then the contractor is responsible for all the labor compliances. If they are not suitable for your hotel, you have to convey that to the contractor. If they are suitable, keep them as permanent employees and provide all employee facilities.
Regards,
Santosh
From India, Mumbai
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You keep all temporary staff through a CONTRACTOR, then the contractor is responsible for all the labor compliances. If they are not suitable for your hotel, you have to convey that to the contractor. If they are suitable, keep them as permanent employees and provide all employee facilities.
Regards,
Santosh
From India, Mumbai
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HR Manual (Employee Hand Book).doc