P Ramachandran
Hr & Administrative Manager
Vishwanathsavula
Human Resources..
Skriyaz786
Hr Manager
Mannupauri
Sr. Administrator
Seemagoswami
Human Resource Manager Providing Business
Job786@live.com
Abdul Manager
Bhagwan_07
Hr Professional
John Chiang
Consultant
Mdevi442
Training
Jatin_keniya25
Asst. Manager-compliance(hr)
GOWTAMTULUGU
Consultant
Debasisp2001
Hr Manager,compensation & Benefit Manager,
Sankarhrd
Manager-hrd
Hemantha
Accountant - Compansation
+11 Others

Thread Started by #gauravarora

hi seniors
im working as an hr manager in hotel industry in mumbai. in our organisation we r having two types of employees one is temporary and other is probation /confirmed employees.
when we recruit new employee in junior post like bell boy ,housekeeping boy or steward etc we put them on temporary period for 3 -4 months to check wether that employee is suitable or not.and in this 3-4 months we dont issue him appointment letter, salary slip, id card, leaves, p.f., esic, p.tax etc . and if he is found satisfactory in these months then we give him all these things along with fresh appointment letter. we r doing there things bcoz attrition rate is very high in hotel industry for junior staff.
so seniors pls suggest what we r doing is alright or it has to be amended as per labour laws.
gaurav.
23rd October 2008 From India, Pune
I think its not right bcoz if a person appointed for temporary or trial purpose commits any crime like theft etc then how will you prove that he was your employee in front of police or law.its totaly illegal and can give rise to many troubles.HR personnels will be in trouble for doing things like these bcoz if anything serious happens then HR personnels will be questioned for any trouble created by them.
23rd October 2008 From India, Delhi
Gaurav, this is unacceptable what is being done to temporary employees as pf/esic is deducted from the day one of the employment no matter if the employee is on contract/ probation or permanent. This might be the reason of high attrition that they aren't treated as an employee.
23rd October 2008 From India, Gurgaon
Dear friend,
Dont keep any employee without appointment letter,esi,pf since you are in Maharashtra wherein the PULP Act is very serious.
Issue appointment order to them with a clause of Probation period for one year/six months and the confirmation is based on his best performace with the ultimate satisfaction of the management.
In case they found suitable after a year/sixmoths probation, issue them with a confirmation of service letter + an increment in pay - let them continue in service as permenant employee.
otherwise, terminate them with a letter stating their performance during the period was not satisfactory to the management.(here you may have a documentary proof for their poor performance by keeping a test)
23rd October 2008 From India, Madras
Dear Sam dsouza,

Every company has the different mode of action on employee recruitment process. As your problem has part of this process.

As from law point of view it is not the good practice as you adopted. But Ya.. there may be some instance where I also have to recruit some temporary staff, on contract basis.
In that case our organization hire’s the people through the resource companies with a mutual agreement.

Agreement: The main two points which is noticeable in this agreement is -
1) The sole responsibility will be undertaken by the service provider, &
2) We can also recruit the same person into our organization after paying the said contribution (contribution money will be varied according to the profile of the employee working in our organization on good faith).

I can send you the copy of agreement if you required so.

Mannu Negi
23rd October 2008 From India, Delhi
Hi Gaurav,
Well in this case you need to give them offer letter saying that u will in probationary period for this many months and based on your perfromance you will be given appointment letter and other benefits
But yaa if something goes wrong during working hours then you will be caught example if your employee meet with an accident etc so better not to take chance i would suggest.
23rd October 2008 From India, Pune
Hi Gaurav,

I am not much found of the labour laws but through my regular learning I can accept with the answers given by few of our HR Mates.

What would you do if something mischief happens by the employee whom you cannot prove as your employee?

Usually in most of the companies, eventhough if the employee is on contract basis - an offer letter has to issued which states that he will be on contract pay rolls for sometime and then he could be made permanent based on the performance.

There is not harm if you could release an offer letter to the employee(contract).

Once the employee joins your Hotel, you can get the relevant signatures - ofcourse not much paper work is required for this. Its just to ensure that you will not face any legal issues.

Eventhough the employee is off role, companies are suppposed to pay PF and ESI or whatever .. that is a mandate now-a-days and for this there is salary grid also...its better if you could refer any of the postings related to Provident Fund by our CITEHR Mates...so that you can have a much more clarity on this....

_ Gowtam


23rd October 2008 From India, Hyderabad
hi this is totally against HR practices & legal compliances. if something happens to them, who is going to answer ??? Regards manish
23rd October 2008 From India, New Delhi
your orgn is having extremely bad HR practice....what ever the attrition rate maybe, your orgn can not play with the life and carreer of human.. for a example if some one dies or something wrong happens in the workplace during working hour.. as they are not having any probation/appointment letter, they wount be treated as an employee in the court of law and are not lible for any statutory and mediclaim benefit.
This is complete exploitation of workmen....and also not a good organisation for you to learn fair HR practices .
Regards
Debasis Panigrahi
24th October 2008 From India, Bangalore
Dear Mr. Gaurav,
See, its very true that attrition rate is very high in Hotel Industries.
There are so many reasons behind of this type of environment :
a. Not very High Eductated
b. Belongs to low middle class
c. Ambition for Fiver Star Hotels
4. etc.
So, for these kinds of reasons they joind only for little exposure they joined small hotels and after few months they move on some big hotel like in mumbai if take instance Leela, Hayat etc.
Rgds

24th October 2008 From India, Mumbai
Dear Friend,
Please update yourself with the law of the land and never follow this type of policy inspite of the pressure from top. This is illegal and against the labour law of this country.
Regards,
Anil K.Gupta
24th October 2008 From India, Ludhiana
Hi Gaurav,
Ours is a S/W dev. company. We too recruit freshers as "Trainee Software Consultant" wherein we clearly specify their performance is reviewed every fortnight for three months. If performance is found inedquate in two performance reviews, their contract will terminate.
And also specify that "As per terms&conditions discussed for offering you this contract, you're agreed....."
Hope this will help you.:icon1:
thank you,

24th October 2008 From India, Hyderabad
Dear Gawrav,
It seems that everybory is not accepting your paractise. :xso why not change that as most of them recomend to recruit on probation basis.:confused: I too in "gowrawayan" ask you to protect the people equity and rights.
Thanks
24th October 2008 From Sri Lanka
Hi all,
I recently joined a company as an HR. Before my joining there is no HRD in this company. I also found many employees are being paid by voucher, has not been given appointment letter, PF, ESI or at least Group Insurance Accident Policies. I have formulated a policy on Recruitement and proposed the appointment letters to be given to all the employees. but company is not ready to take all the employees on to the rolls. but wants to put some of them on consultant rolls and some employees as contract base.
Briefly i want to know how many type are the employees classified into? (permanent, contract, consultant etc..) and the different types of appointment letters to be given to each type of employee...??
--
Vissu
24th October 2008 From India, Hyderabad
Hi Buddy,

I'm not much experienced person of HR however, I would like to suggest u that ur organization is doing wrong with the employees as they are not feeling secure in your organization. Bcoz they have joined your organization and they have the write to get the satisfaction which an employee should get. Yeah, ur organization has the authority during the probation period they can terminate them bcoz they were not satisfied with their performance. For this u should give them the appointment letter mentioning that they are on probation 4 dat much period & their probation can be extended if the management feels so. I would like to say that u should treat them as an employee. That will definitely lower d attrition rate of ur organization. One more thing which an HR should keep in mind dat the HR should have the details of all the employees those are working with them either they are on contract, probation or permanant basis bcoz any employee can do anything wrong with ur organization or any body in ur organization. If u would have the details & proves that this employee was wkg with u then only u can sought out the problem.

Regards

Rachna :icon1:
24th October 2008 From India, New Delhi
The costs of employee turnover can be extremely high. Employees leave jobs for many reasons, including dissatisfaction with job duties, the desire for higher wages, or the wish to enter a new career. If employees leave for these reasons, executive may want to reconsider the selection process by asking themselves these questions:
  • Was the position accurately defined?
  • Where the hotel and the position clearly and fully explained to the applicant before he/she was hired?
  • Did the executive obtain complete, accurate information about the applicant before hiring him/her?
You may consider the temporary agency. Temporary agencies can provide staff to fill a wide range of positions. They often train their employees to fill specific needs. The hourly rate charged for temporary employees will probably be higher than the rate paid to permanent hourly employees, but these costs usually offset in other ways.
  • Supply capable helps quickly, helping to reduce overtime, recruitment, and hiring expenses.
  • Employ workers whom they have screened and trained.
  • Can often supply an entire supervised crew of workers when necessary.
Temporary employees are usually not trained in appropriate or specific procedures. This can render such workers less productive than a property's own staff. Temporary workers, too, often require more supervision.
Regards,
John

25th October 2008 From China, Shanghai
hi seniors, I want to the know the difference between management & HR. I also know more about the function of hr department. shamlin
25th October 2008 From Bangladesh
Hi All,
The same issue is being faced by one of my friends who himself is working as an HR but has not got any offer letter or Appointment letter and has been working for past three months and has not been given the salary also. So what can he do? And whenever he asks for the same he is replied that it will be done. Then what shall he do?
I advised him to resign from immediate effect but looking at the current market situation which is really bad that he feels what if he doen't get another job,then how would he justify the gap for the time he is unempoyed?? Also he feels stability will be the issue he would face when he goes for a change.
Please suggest some good measures so that I can help him.
Regards
Kshipra
25th October 2008 From India, Delhi
Did you made any internal rules which is similar to external rules then nothing to wory internal rules is most important you can issue then tenpo offer letter or appo please chek labour law in ten. wages base
Riyaz

26th October 2008 From India, Delhi
Accourding to law say that You appointed any type of employees like temporary,probation ,contract,peice rate etc.all are covered under ESI,EPF,Bonus,and appointment order given to related employess even one day working you should follow allthinks
with rgds
A.Sankar
Manager -hr

31st October 2008
can i ask a questions , is lyk this .
that month 1/9/08 i sign double letter ( appointment & confirmation ) in front of my taiwan boss when i finish sign , i ask my accountant ( local women ) why u didnt give me a copy of appointment letter and confirmation ???? accountant said that she wont give me stuff a copy bcz she scare that we will take this letter to make some bad things .
my question is "isnt the company the right to can dont give me both of the letter ? "
pls help me , is vry urgent !!!:(:(:(:?::?::?::?::!::!::!:
2nd November 2008 From Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
Dear Friends, Can you give me sample of Salary statement employees working more than 50 no’s? it will help me out to change my career. Thanks Abdul Wahid
2nd November 2008 From Bahrain
hi gaurav. u should be give appointment letter / offer letter at the time of joining to them regards shayra
14th November 2008 From India, Ahmadabad
Dear Friends, Can you give me sample of Salary statement employees working more than 50 no’s? it will help me out to change my career. Thanks, Rupali.
3rd December 2008 From India, Mumbai
Hi Gaurav
Viewing quote of all seniors and experts, i would like suggest you go for hiring any outsourcing organisation for Temperary Staffing or Contract Staffing including thier total statutory compliance.
we are leading player for such type of staffing in today's scenario.
For more information you can catch me on 99675 98731.
waiting for your call.
Regards
Jatin.

3rd December 2008 From India, Mumbai
HI All,
Can anyone please clarify that is it possible for a company to pay fixed salary to it's employee by check and also there is no pf being paid or any tax deduction .whatever agreed is paid montly through check.is this a acceptable practice.
Regards,
Shalini
27th January 2009 From India, Bangalore
HI Can you please send me a sample of an appointment letter as an accountant, I am waiting your quick response. Regards, Udagam
26th April 2009 From Australia, Monterey
Dear Gaurav,
It is totally against the Factory Act, whenever u recruits somebody whether he is on temp or regular you a liable to pay his PF, ESI, and Bonus as per the act.
It is your responsibility.
You do one thing first you go through with your standing orders what has been written on it whether there is any thing written about the confirmation of the employees, if so you draft a appointment letter taking the reference from the standing orders mentioned under so and so clause you are on probation period for so and so month after that your services will be confirmed, and if your services was not satisfactory in this period your probation period will be increased by 3 month or your services will be terminated with immediate effect.
Regard’s
Ajay Desai

14th January 2010 From India, Calcutta
Dear Gaurav
1. You keep all temprory staff through CONTRACTOR then contractor is responsible for all the labour complainces.
2. if they are not sutable for your hotel you have to convey to the contractor .
3. if they are sutable keep as a permanent employee.and provide all facility of employee.
regards
Santosh
14th January 2010 From India, Mumbai
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