Thread Started by #Soni1501

Dear All, I am in a dilemma, please help me out. My organization is a small organization with approx. 120 employees and the HR system is still developing. As the first process I have introduced the attendance system which now all employees are adhering to except the senior management team and few regional managers. Now, I have been questioned by many employees that if all employees are marking their attendance then why the Seniors are not marking and they also do not come on time. How do I handle this situation ? My query is in other organizations does the Senior management team who are in the level of General Managers or above mark their attendance like rest of the employees?
2nd February 2019 From India, Delhi
It's common in almost every units that senior management personnel's attendance is not recorded by them individually like other middle & lower level personnel by signing or punching, though some cos still follows every employee irrespective of cadres punch while entering the office. Where there are magnetic entry card or bio-metric system is in vogue the linked computers automatically records their attendance. The solution in your case is, if there are PAs to them, they shall send a monthly communication either by eMails or IOM(Inter Office Memo) to the Pay roll giving the details of concerned attendance for the month. If there are no PAs individual officials shall send their attendance by eMails, failing which the Pay roll shall design a format and circulate among such officers and obtain their data for processing & records purposes. A sound HR-Office Management shall have such a written reporting system in coordination with Pay roll.
2nd February 2019 From India, Bangalore
Thank you for your prompt response. I actually wanted to issue an email to them for marking their electronic attendance. I may be wrong but shouldn't all the polices etc be practiced by the Seniors before drilling them down to other employees? If the police themselves do not follow rules then how the public be questioned?
2nd February 2019 From India, Delhi
Ye tho hi na,
Dear Soni,
There is no hard and fast rule that Srs. shouldn't mark their attendance. I didn't mention what practice in vogue in your office. Is't signing in the attendance register kept at the entry or at the desk of office/reception or bio-metric or magnetic card. Much would depend on this systems. I'm not advocating the fact that they shouln't mark just because they are seniors. But you should also appreciate the fact that most of the seniors does't go strictly by the clock. They are supposed to work 24x31x365 unlike their subordinates. Middle/junior level staff can afford to work 9-5 routine whereas SM can't do that because they are responsible for all the requirements without limitations to office timings. They are meetings-within and outside, calls to attend, answer to customers & officials of various agencies, achieve targets and rectify pitfalls and so on. So I don't suggest you to take them to task for not signing the attendance. At the same time if they won't enforce discipline within among their subordinates, they are only held responsible for the do's and don'ts.
2nd February 2019 From India, Bangalore
Thank you for the response. I now have few answers for other junior staffs who comes up these excuses of not signing attendance register sighting Seniors name. Thank you once again
6th February 2019 From India, Delhi
Dear Soni,
You personally talk to your Sr. Management and explain them that It will be difficult for you to keep their leave records and process their salaries without proper attendance record. If you are still managing the manual attendance you can send the attendance to their desk through some office assistant to get it signed. So gradually you can develop the signing habit in them. Regarding the punctuality as Mr. Kumar has suggested it will be difficult to get them on track since they work for the late hours.
Regards,
Nandini
6th February 2019 From Pakistan, Lahore
Dear Soni,
If security persons available means ask them to mark their in/out in the separate registers. It will be helpful at the time of payroll process....
7th February 2019
Senior people need to set examples of following company rules in visible and open manner.
Biometric attendance system placed at entrance will help solve the problem.But seniors need to set examples first.
No doubt they may need to work late hours etc, but basic attendance requirements is unavoidable as record for payments.Seek their cooperation and assistance in making the system work.
7th February 2019 From India, Pune
Hi Thiyanesh & friends,
Depending on markings by security persons at the entry, in my opinion, is not a healthy practice due to following reasons-
1) Security's primary duty is to regulate entry & exit of employees as well as others 24 x 7. It's possible they could miss to take note of in/out movement of personnel when they have to concentrate on other aspects like movement of goods thru' the gate etc.
2) They are not going to be informed on a given day who will be on duty, who are on leave or on duty outside and so on.
3) It's possible for fraudulent marking if they collude with employees.
4) This arrangement may not work where large man power is involved.
7th February 2019 From India, Bangalore
It's common in almost every units that senior management personnel's attendance is not recorded by them individually like other middle & lower level personnel by signing or punching, though some cos still follows every employee irrespective of cadres punch while entering the office. Where there are magnetic entry card or bio-metric system is in vogue the linked computers automatically records their attendance. other wise u can induce payroll software ( like attendance capture direct through mobile) many soft wares available in market . it will be given more information to employees also like senior level to junior level , that 's better for u because of u can trace out location also.
8th February 2019 From India, Vijayawada
Nothing New, A Very common problem in India and almost every industry and company must have this issue.
But people like us are always there to find out the way out.
Ask top management to give exemption or support to advise everybody for punching.
With this your top mgmt will also come to know your problem and definitely decide to give exemption till certain levels. on which you can comment to other employee to reach that level and enjoy the benefit.
Regards,
S C Tiwari
Gujarat
13th February 2019 From India
If you are a HR Professional with level of Manager, Draft attendance policy and got it approved then you can email and announce the attendance policy to all staff by email and noticeboard.
If problem is not solved, public the attendance graph dept wise on noticeboard. senior managers will start take care of it to avoid their dept being exposed publicly.
14th February 2019 From Pakistan
I agree, in many of the companies, it is like that only, for those who are in senior management and not marking their attendance, simply payroll division shall continue to mark their absence and deduct their days of absence. surely from the next time onwards, they will make a practice next time to punch their attendance so that their salary gets updated correctly.
14th February 2019 From India, Delhi
Its very critical to say that start deduct their days of absence. Seniors are very surely not going to accept it. They always follow this attitude to bypass the attendance rules, but want to follow the attendance rules by the juniors. Its very common that seniors come any time in the office because most of the times they work beyond fix span of time.
16th February 2019 From India, Delhi
Dear friend
I would like to suggest here the speak with the higher authority i.e. hod , directors etc... and convey them there is lack of system and policies internet the company which may having loss to the company in terms of the excess salaries paying because of no proper attendance record. Thereafter take a permission from them to prepare attendance & leaves policy and apply it through them only.
This will help the control to seniors at some extend then slowly you can take charge of payroll process which route the higher authority
Regards
Nilesh Kadam
17th February 2019 From India, Mumbai
Hi Soni,
If you are in a Sr.cadre and could have direct access to Top management like HR-Head, Directors etc. you should discuss with them raising these issues and seek their guidance. If you do anything on your own it might harm you. Without any consent of your superiors don't try to take forward sensitive issues on your own.
18th February 2019 From India, Bangalore
Thank you everyone for your support and responses. I have spoken to the HR Head and she has spoken to the senior management team. There is some improvement and hopefully everyone will start marking their attendance. Ours is an online Software Attendance portal, no biometric etc.
22nd February 2019 From India, Delhi
"Appeasement" in matters of Workplace Discipline for any Cadre of Employees holding any hierarchy Position/ Designation in an Organizaation is Unwelcome, Unlawful, Unacceptable "Stand" and is most likely to ruin the Values of the concerned Org for and the Org Entity, subsequently.
People See and People Do is just Not an Adage but True and any Act Unworthy Of Employment definitely will instill indiscipline, Disregard for Team-Work Spirit, Co-ordination, Loss of ManHours, Low Profit & Profitability, Low Morale and Lack of Motivation symptoms of Moving Towards Bankruptsy /Closure.
Enforce Attendance Recording- Signature or Electronic Punching, Incoming & Outgoing, both or Every Work Day and
ENSURE Every Employed Person, irrespective of Diesgnation, Resumes Duty at Appointed Time and to that end, Report at Workplace Few Minutes before Resuming Duty for that Day.
Indiscipline Anywhere Is Threat to Discipline Everywhere.
Kritarth Team
22 Feb 2019
22nd February 2019 From India, Delhi
Hi Soni,
It'll work. From your side, pl.monitor this continuously, and whenever there is some let up, talk to them orally and request. I hope they understand. Don't view any slippages as egoistic, even if there's no improvement don't worry, keep friendly approach get going, that'll ease the situation. Don't ever give room to create an impression in them that you are trying to pull them up for trivial things and rubbing on a wrong side. Be sensible in dealing the matter, nothing wrong when some here and there slips for various reasons & don't allow it to escalate in a big way. All the best friend.
22nd February 2019 From India, Bangalore
With your kind permission lets discuss facts onlt....
1) As the first process I have introduced the attendance system - Who has advised you to introduce Attendance System? what were problem faced because of non availability of attendance system?
2. except the senior management team and few regional managers - For how many days month year your organization was not having attendance system earlier?
3. Seniors are not marking and they also do not come on time - Whats your CEO/Owners view on this?
4. the HR system is still developing. - What is age of your organization what is the average tenure of the Senior Managers in your organization?
5. My query is in other organizations does the Senior management team who are in the level of General Managers or above mark their attendance like rest of the employees? - Whatever other organization does may not be suitable for your organization Culture and environment.
22nd February 2019 From India, Pune
Dear soni,
In most of the companies sr. Level mgmt people skip d attendance. But they are responsible for pros & cons of their department/ company.
As far me, i think junior have less responsibility as compared to higher level.
22nd February 2019 From India, New Delhi
To
Dear Soni
Keep the Muster and ask your office boy to go to his cabin and take signature of seniors.on day to day basis. As per my view.this method may help you to solve the problem.
Jayant Nisal

corporate Manager-H.R./I.R.
7875757963
28th February 2019 From India, Pune
Dear all,
In recent years, we should take note, many employees at all levels are permitted to long in wherever they are which is taken as their proper attendance. This arrangement would nullify the need to mark their attendance at a given desk/entrance.
There is another arrangement also in vogue. Under this there is no commencement & closing of office hours/attendance. There is only a stipulation that in a week/month their cumulative minimum long-in hours are taken into consideration for their attendance. This is used irrespective of top/middle/bottom level employees.
So in a world every one is surrounded by wired/wi-fi connectivity there is hardly any need to mark attendance as we have been doing in the recent past.
28th February 2019 From India, Bangalore
All pl., read 'log-in' instead of 'long-in'. Spell check error is regretted.
1st March 2019 From India, Bangalore
Dear Soni,
It is must maintain the attendance system for each and every Employee in the organization. For Sr. Managers you have to make a separate Attendance manually. Remaining in Biometric. For statutory purposes, you have to show the attendance register for all the employees. Compulsory the PF / ESI / Factory Inspector / Labour dept officials if they inspect, they will compare the attendance and Salary / Wage registers.
Dr. PBS KUMAR
2nd March 2019 From India, Kakinada
Respected CiteHR Members. 5.3.2019
========================
Thanks to all members for sharing their practices, problems faced in attendance regr.signing/recording of Sr.officers Attendance.
PROBLEMS TO CERTIFY ATTENDANCE FOR SALARY:
========================
Certification of Attendance for Salary is an imp.task of HR Mgr.
Some HR Mgrs. face problems to Certify Attendance due to the employees NOT Signing/ Punching daily, Absenteeism, Leave, OD, Co-off regularization etc.,
Pl.read the below Circular. I hope; it is useful to adopt them in your Co., after correcting Shift Timings & other items as per your situation. ================================================== ====================
. . /HR&A/ 1.1.2019.
C I R C U L A R
======================
SUB: SHIFT TIMINGS- REGULARISING ATTENDANCE, ABSENCE,
LEAVE etc. FOR SALARY
----------------------------------------------------------------
ALL THE EMPLOYEES OF THE COMPANY ARE HEREBY INFORMED TO MAKE NOTE OF THE FOLLOWING AND COMPLY WITH THE BELOW RULES WITH EFFECT FROM . . . , 2019:
1. As our Factory/Co. will be working in A, B, C & General Shifts; the employees shall adhere to the following Working Hours as allotted to them:-

Shift – A Shift - B Shift - C General Shift
--------------- -------------- -------------- ---------------

Begins - 6 a.m. Begins 2 p.m. Begins 10 p.m. Begins 9 a.m.
Ends - 2 p.m. Ends 10 p.m. Ends 6 a.m. Ends 6 p.m.
2. Every employee should record his Presence Daily in the Attendance Register as per their Duty Schedule mentioned above; immediately on arrival in the Factory and before starting of his duty; and also PUNCH IN Time (on the Punching Machine kept at the Factory/Office entrance) before Starting of the duty. OUT Time shall be Punched after Ending of the duty/While Going out of the Factory.
3. ALL THE EMPLOYEES ARE REQUESTED TO MARK THEIR DAILY PRESENCE BY PUTTING A small Initial only. Please donot put signature. Signature of some employees Stretching to other’s column; is spoiling the Register.
4.All the employees must write the SHIFT Name (A, B, C or G which he is doing) below his initial.
5. If the employee has to go out of the Factory during the 8 hrs. duty period, he should get OUT PASS/LEAVE CARD from his Superior, produce to Security/Time Office at the Main Gate, Record In & Out time in Punching Machine every time while Leaving & Entering the Factory to record the total hrs. worked daily in the Factory.
6. BOTH ATTENDANCE REGISTER & PUNCHING REPORTS WILL BE THE BASIS TO CERTIFY ATTENDANCE FOR SALARY AND HENCE, ALL EMPLOYEES MUST SIGN & PUNCH AS ABOVE WITHOUT FAIL.
7. EMPLOYEE MUST sign IN ATTENDANCE REGISTER only if he has worked on that day. HE SHALL NOT SIGN IF HE HAS NOT WORKED ON ANY DAY. IF his Superior has permitted him to take Holiday on any Sunday, Holiday etc, he can write S for Sunday, H for Holiday & WO for Weekly Off PROVIDED; he has not attended duty on those days.
8. EMPLOYEES SHALL NOT WRITE OR RECORD LEAVE, C-OFF, OD etc., IN THE ATTENDANCE REGISTER. EMPLOYEE SHALL PRODUCE SANCTIONED LEAVE CARD, Co-OFF APPLICATION, OD Form etc., TO HR DEPT., THEN HR DEPT. WILL RECORD THE SAME IN THE ATTENDANCE REGISTER AND REGULARISE THE ABSENCE.
9. All the Employee should regularize Absence, W/Off, Holidays, Leave, C-Off, OD etc. within 2 days of NOT SIGNING and NO COLUMN IS LEFT BLANK AS ON 30/31 OF THE MONTH. Please discuss with HR Manager; if any absence is not regularized by 30/31 failing which; it will be treated as absent & will cause deduction of Leave, Salary etc.,
10. HR Dept. is authorized to put Red Dot in Blank columns which would mean the employee has not attended duty on those days; unless he regularize it with Leave Card, Medical Certificate, C-off, OD Slip etc., as the case may be. Once Red dot is put, Employee shall not overwrite; BUT discuss with HR Manager regarding regularizing the same.
11. No correction/no representation regarding Attendance/Absence will be accepted after Attendance is Closed and given to Accounts / BANK for payment of Salary. Hence, all employees are required to discuss with HRD reg.regularising Absence to avoid deduction of Leave, Salary etc.
12. Employees; due to exigencies of work, when required to work by their Superiors; beyond duty hours,Weekly Off days, Holidays etc.,they should comply with the instructions, work and enter in the Extra Work / Co-off Register kept for the purpose and get the signature of their Superior in the Register.
13. When the employee wants to take Co-Off for the Extra work, he should enter the same in the Co-Off Register and get the Co-Off Application sanctioned by his Superior & present to the HRD before leaving the Plant.
14. No employee SHALL sign for others, SHALL NOT MAKE CORRECTION OR OVER-WRITE IN THE REGISTER. EMPLOYEE SHALL TAKE THE REGISTER ONLY FOR SIGNING AT THE SPECIFIED SHIFT TIME. HR MANAGER IS RESPONSIBLE TO VERIFY & CERTIFY ATTENDANCE FOR SALARY & HR MANAGER IS THE CUSTODIAN OF ALL H.R. REGISTERS INCLUDING ATTENDANCE REGISTER.
15. The HR Dept. has to maintain the Registers for several years for inspection of Govt.Authorities, Auditors etc., to check, verify & Certify Attendance to pay salary, Regularise Leave, Absence etc.,
Hence, All the employees are requested to cooperate to maintain & Certify the Attendance for Salary and help HR&A Dept.to keep the Registers as per Rules.
16. ANY EMPLOYEE VIOLATING ABOVE RULES WILL BE LIABLE FOR DISCIPLINARY ACTION.
17. The above Rules will come into force with effect from , 2019.
MANAGING DIRECTOR / GENERAL MANAG – HR & Admin.
Cc: to General Manager–Plant, All HODs, Notice Boards. for infn.& compliance
KINDLY SHARE THIS WITH UR HR friends ALSO
Thanking you & awaiting to hear from you.
With Kind Regards,
For H.R., Labour & Legal problems, please contact:
C.N. Khan,HR & Mgmnt Consultant&Advocate(Ex-AGM-HR&A-35 yrs exp. in HR,IR,LegalAdmn.in7 Mfg.Co.s +Secy.for ISO certification).
Ph: 9535470460- E-Mailid:
SANDUR / HOSPET,
Ex-Member, NIPM, Calcutta, Ex- Tr.Member, I.I.M., B;luru.
Languages known: Kannada, Tamil, Telugu + Hindi & English
5th March 2019 From India, Mumbai
Senior people have to set examples of following company rules in visible and open manner.
192.168.0.1
22nd March 2019 From Vietnam, Hanoi
In many organisations, senior managers do not avail of exclusive holidays. They accumulate and encash it when they retire and when it exceeds the maximum limit allowable. They spend odd times or even holidays to meet senior customer personnel and also do business development after office hours. Therefore, create a system whereby their presence at official work is recorded... may be an off-line log in app or remote attendance system.
Best wishes
28th April 2019 From India
Dear Sandur Sir,
Thanks for the information helps to know & implement in our factory also Seniors without information going OD later /end of the month an oral information to add in payroll.
Regards,
Mona

8072193485
9th May 2019 From India, Madras
Dear friends,
I agree, and there's no second opinion that srs.should set an example. But at the same time there's practical difficulties in adhering to the procedure set up, say signing the attendance register kept at the entrance or punching at the gate. For e.g. Srs.entering the premises along with some customers/visitors, will it look nice if the Sr.gets off the car go to the desk & signing while the visitors are kept waiting till the procedure is complete? Of course, its also important their attendance is atleast marked. In our office we have an arrangement that Srs.inform PAs or admin staff about their routine and in turn the staff marks their attendance. I feel it's not always should be insisted the Srs should be made to follow all such procedures as it's not always possible to go thru' the routine strictly and when they miss it should not be treated as 'indiscipline' at all.
9th May 2019 From India, Bangalore
Hi,
Well let me help you with a solution here by quoting an example of my company.
We have an electronic attendance recorder which at the same time is door un locker.
So, whenever a person enters the work place his entrance is recorded as soon as he unlocks the door, this way the employee presence hours are recorded itself.
Moreover, there are software for tracking working hours when an emlpoyee logsin to his system.
Otherwise, senior management in absence of extreme strictness by organization do not consider marking attendance as a serious thing.So, there should be a proper process for the fair record of attendance.
Hope this helps :)
29th May 2019 From Pakistan, Islamabad
Dear Soni,
we can help in this regards. by using time and attendace system on cloud/ web.
1. our system will capture all in/ out punches.
2. late coming/ early going policy can be configured and can be adjusted from leaves as per the organisation's policy.
3.
this can ensure complete log with any adjustement approved by authorised person
Outsource Payroll Processing | Payroll Outsourcing Company India
pls contact to know more details about software feature
29th May 2019 From India , Mumbai
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