Business Mentor, Consultant And Trainer
Principal Hr Consultant
Head Of People Relations
PRABHAT RANJAN MOHANTY
Hr & Ir
Senior Manager -hr
You have explained your problem about the change of role. But then please confirm what role did you perform as HR Business Partner (HRBP). You say that now you have been told to perform role of HR Operations. What are the duties included in this role? What is the difference between the two? Why do you perceive that role of HR Operations is below your dignity?
For Archana Gangrade: - Employers reserve right to transfer employee from one department to another or one location to another. Generally most of the companies include clause to this effect in the appointment letter. In Sangita's case, her department is not changed but just a section within the department. Therefore, I doubt whether Labour Officer (LO) will involve in the internal matters of the company.
From India, Bangalore
Every role has its own essence, its just that I do not aspire to be in HR Operations role. My interest area and aspirations are totally into HR Business Partnering role. Moreover , only reason why I joined this company was I was being offered my dream and aspired role.
This is like cheating here that 1 week before my joining I am being forced to join asap on the same role and just after 1 week I am told we don't have a role for you. Hope you have a clarity on my Problems now. For more details, I would request you to please check the difference between HR Operations and HR Business Partner role.
While employee may feel different, company reserves right to depute employee on other task also.
Role between these two titles are sometimes blurred.
Any major changes took place in company working environment, business etc during your leave period.
Could be there are genuine reasons and management had not much of choice and had to put you in operations.
Any way labour officer has no role to play in this internal reallocation of roles.
Employee can try to convince management that she can do better justice to role of Business partner which is more strategic oriented in functions.
From India, Pune
Being in the role of HR Business Partner would be close to any HR's heart. HRBP is the latest currency in the HR's jargon. Nevertheless, if you look back, you will find that after every 5-10 years since the days of Personnel Management, HR always coined something new. What started as HR Management, later became Human Capital Management, Human Capability Management, Human Potential Management and so on. The latest discovery from HR's sack is HR Business Partner. Why HR is in identity crisis perennially?
Nevertheless, no HR has come up with any credible explanation as to why HR feels need to be business partner? If Production, Purchase, Finance or any other functionary does not bother to tell others that they are business partners, why HR felt need to do that?
Inability to provide credible explanation apart, I am yet to see any HRBP coming up with evidence to show that how their activities contributed to the revenue generation or reduced operational cost. Has any HRBP shown proof of their activities on the balance sheet of the company?
Therefore, my recommendation to you is to cool down and accept the role of HR Operations. Though you have not explicitly mentioned in your first post that it is below your dignity, your post implies that way. Else to mitigate your grieve, you may resign from your job. However, this option has it's own demerits as well.
Lastly, thanks for your advice on finding out the difference between HR Operations and HRBP. Your second post will become outstanding for queriest turning into adviser!
From India, Bangalore
Your earlier post, number 3 in this thread is commendable, especially the second para is thoroughly justified.
The next post ( above) is not written in good taste wrt HR, its functions, roles and specific designation. HR has evolved and come a long way with time. Large organisations have varied portfolio wrt HR. Kindly respect the position and person. In this thread the seeker is asking the forum and we can guide her accordingly. Not differentiate each department or section and its value add to the organisation. Every department and person in a particular organisation is an asset in the system. I rest my discussion here wrt your second post.
The second para of Mr. Divekar post stands true. The same must have been mentioned in your appointment letter which is very generic statement. I understand the predicament you are in. Try to speak to your up-line and in the meanwhile look out for other avenues where your education and experience is valued. Till then HR operations will definitely add value to your curriculum vitae.
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Dinesh Divekar - I think you are not just trying degrade now HRBP role, stating they have not done any valuable work with the business in the organization. I think Ms Jayashree is right that HR is evolved a lot over a period of time and in large organizations there are various section in HR Dept.
You might feel that my post implies that HR operations is below my dignity, but that's your perception. It depends on the Reader how do they read and perceive something. In this forum I am asking for a guidance and not any kind of rude advices.
Anyway thanks for your above post(advice) given by you.
HROP is a completely different role from HRBP. HRBP is more of a strategic role. IF it would not be a different role, it would not be termed differently. HRBP is completely a different role from HROP.
I agree with your statement that one needs to have knowledge in all the functions. Please understand that in this forum I am asking for a guidance to deal with the situation and not trying to understand from everyone the difference between the 2 roles. Plus FYI I have worked in HROP role earlier in my previous organization. Its just that my interest area and aspirations are totally into HRBP role.
You may find my advise / post as harsh or rather more harsh than others who participated in this thread.
I feel you are not a Business Partner. Business Partner is a person who takes every thing as a challenge and prove the worth of himself or herself in the Business.
You please be in the shoes of Partner. It is need of the business to re-shuffle the structure of employment, do job rotation etc.
In fact, job rotation helps us to enhance our intrinsic value.
You are in to employment and not in to Partnership. Either you love your employment or better leave. There is no in between those two "L".
You have no remedy in Labour Laws.
I am not from HR and I do not know anything of HR.
From India, Mumbai
You can raise a request that i would like to work in the same role and do better or else I have to resign - if you would like to work only on your specific role.
Being in a HRBP role you will find a job easily in any other company.
And moving to HR-Operations is good but there might be a point raised or situation happen that you don't work properly or handle situations and in future you may have to resign because of low performance, as you don't have experience in the HR-Operations role.
If you are in need of money, grab that HR-Operations role and start searching for a job then move on your HRBP role explaining the scenario.
Also you can try by going to LB officer and explain him the scenario asking whether you can go legally or no.
The person who said was right as per Business standards they have to put someone on your role and that person might be still working. If he have resigned then they can grab you after few months.
These are many scenarios that come on every HR mind. Find any of the good and go with it,
From India, Hyderabad
(Your were on maternity leave for six months.
You intened to take more leaves but You were forced to rejoin.
You were given new role after joining.)
As per statutory law you have got maternity leaves.Extension of your leave is subject to your HR policies and line manager approval.Did you produced enough medical reports to extend your leave?
Changing your role is company's decision no labour officer can help you.
Say suppose you were not in leave and your role had been changed what you would have done?
(You would discuss to your line manger your strengths on current role and try to convince him -right, did you try?)
Or if you feel your maternity leave is the reason for the change in role, you have to prove it and you can move to labour officer.
From India, Hyderabad
Have been going through the progress of this thread very silently and have been reading every piece of information that has been written here to assist Ms. Sangita.
Though the forum members have tried their level best to assist her, i too would like to share something, both to assist Sangita and to advice the forum members.
Ravibhushan here.... With regards to your post my suggestion to you would be...You should have taken your seniors comments on mail which could have eased your troubles post your maternity leave while joining the organization. Every communication especially when it comes to compliance should be in black and white for you to take any further action.
Do make a point to see your appointment letter. Organization has right to transfer employees from one vertical to another of the same department.
Your interest in the HRBP role is commendable as it is much of a strategic role and your savings do reflect in the balance sheet as ,as an HRBP you are continuously striving to make sure that your strategic approach not only benefits the organization but strengthens the entire talent that you are having and yet to have as part of your framework.
I would never advice you to change your mind and opt for HR Operations, though it is not at all a bad option , but at the end the decision is yours.
Now comes my advice............................................ ........................
Mr. Divakar has spoken what he has seen may be observed and most obviously experienced....But let me tell you Mr. Divakar......I think you have met the wrong guys may be amateurs in HR who being an HRBP have never contributed to the balance sheet.
The Senior HR's that i have worked for and me personally who have worked both as a HR generalist as well as, as a HRBP and have made sure that our balance sheet speaks in terms of cost saved for the organization both in terms of compliances and maintaining and enhancing the skills sets of our existing talent pool.
HR has evolved from the days of personnel management to human resources but one thing hasn't changed is its importance....in good organizations knowledge bearing and seeking individuals in the HR department are still valued and cared for.
Being a responsible member of the HR fraternity i would definitely say that HR is as important as any other department of the organization.
The truth also is that it is still treated as an underdog and we as responsible members of the fraternity has the responsibility of changing how the world looks at us.
Thanks & Regards,
Head of People Relations
From India, Pune
You have written that "The Senior HR's that i have worked for and me personally who have worked both as a HR generalist as well as, as a HRBP and have made sure that our balance sheet speaks in terms of cost saved for the organization both in terms of compliances and maintaining and enhancing the skills sets of our existing talent pool."
I appreciate your confidence. In fact after a long while, I find that someone from HR exuding confidence. To corroborate what you have written, would you, as Head of People Relations, mind to provide evidence of how activities HRBP reflected in the balance sheet of the company or reduced any operational cost. It will be great education not only to me but to all the members of this forum.
From India, Bangalore
Mr Dinesh Divekar - I totally agree with Mr Ravibhusan, you have met the wrong HR's in your experience who being an HRBP has never contributed or value added in the profit of the organization. I think you have simply not understood my scenario and just trying to debate here.
Anyways thanks again for your harsh advices here. I would not want to welcome it anymore. Please understand this is the forum where you guide people and not try to debate on something or write something harsh about any profile.
From India, Mumbai
In your post place at Sl No 17, you have stated that Mr Dinesh Divekar - I totally agree with Mr Ravibhusan, you have met the wrong HR's in your experience who being an HRBP has never contributed or value added in the profit of the organization. I think you have simply not understood my scenario and just trying to debate here.
How can Mr Ravibhushan and you aver that I met wrong HRs? What is the source of your information?
What I have written in my second post is plain truth. The problem with the truth is that most of the time it is bitter and since I administered this bitter truth, I became a "harsh", person. Nevertheless, in addition to Mr Ravibhushan Pandav, I request you also to provide examples of how role of HRBP exactly helped your organisation. It would be my pleasure to get educated from you on this count!
By the way, please note that posts are the public forum are bound to come under public scrutiny. Therefore, the replies by the other members could be out of purview of your likes or dislikes. How to accept the opposing views gracefully is individual's call.
When a person write with complete conviction, he does not need anyone's vindication. However, my second post, the one that you and Mr Ravibhushan consider as the harsh one, has got seven appreciations. The appreciations not just vindicate what I have written, but echo my views too!
From India, Bangalore
Divergence of views is more educative than I agree posts.
Let us learn to appreciate different views.
Coming back to the point of HR BP
We agree that HR business partners are HR professionals who work closely with an organisationís Senior leaders to develop an HR agenda that closely supports the overall aims of the organisation. The process of alignment is known as HR business partnering and may involve the HR business partner sitting on the Board of Directors or working closely with the board of directors and C-suite.
The very best HR business partners have:
Self-belief in their personal ability to make a difference to the business
Belief in the value of the HR function
Confidence to have a strong point of view and express it even if it proves unpopular
Knowledge and experience of the business and its intricacies and an ability to communicate in business terms
An ability to build long-term, trusting relationships with clients and with HR colleagues
A focus on delivering business outcomes through making best use of the whole HR function and acting as a strong role-model for the rest of the team.
Let us analyse whether these qualities are seen in this discussion and leave it at that.
From India, Pune
I am seeing a number of issues posted by fellow women professionals (I think, HR Professional is the first time) related to Maternity, now a days - coercing to resign, denial of maternity benefit, no leave extension post maternity etc. Some companies and managers are thinking that they are doing a favor 'Maternity Benefit' to women in India - No Boss, it is a right. A women deserves more by considering the tremendous effort, pain and sacrifice associated with maternity.
1. My recommendation is to share the concern to your manager in writing and request to consider.
2. If your manager is not responding in 2 working days, forward to the HR Head
3. If HR Head is also following the same game of not responding or telling you the same thing over the phone or meeting, you have another option
4. Stay on your current profile, prepare your resume and start searching a BPHR role in another good company
From India, Bangalore
While I appreciate your desire and sentiments about the role of HRBP being your dream role. While I agree with some the pointers of Mr Divekar, I would suggest you to check as to whether that role still exists/abolished or some body else has been put on that role in your absence.
Please also evaluate as to how is the performance of the current HRBP. If you are willing to do compromise on the role for some time, you can negotiate with your manager that the role should be offered to you after some intervening period.
If you have not done HR Ops role earlier may be it is a better role or you may start liking the role. No harm in trying new avenues.
From India, Thane
I have dropped a mail to my HR Head and waiting for him to revert back on the same.
Bharat Gera - Thank you for the Valuable advice and understanding my scenario.
I generally do not explain myself or my views to individuals who always feel or practice views being on a descent about a particular entity or a function.
But here its not just one individual who is involved but many HR professionals who are referring this post and reading the comments of all the HR Experts who have contributed to this thread and thats why this explanation.
As you rightly said that you have met someone after a long time from the HR fraternity showcasing (exuding - in your terms ) extreme confidence.
Well.....if you mean to say that other fraternity members here are not confident then i think you should reconsider your thought. I am confident because i know i am right and here below comes your answer to how Human Resources adds value to the Balance Sheet of the organization.
1) SHRM is concerned with making decisions with regard to defining the organizations vision and mission, establishing long- and short-term objectives to achieve the organizations vision and selecting the strategy to be used in achieving the organizations objectives.
2) Strategic management is the process of formulating, implementing and evaluating business strategies to achieve organizational objectives. Globally appreciated HR experts define strategic manage≠ment as a manner by which organisations plan to deal with the various aspects of management like problem perception, divergent thinking, substantial resources, decisions making, innovations, taking risks and facing uncertainty.
3) In other words, the formulation of organisational strategy is integrative with the formulation of functional strategies. Here, human resource strategy assumes more impor≠tance because it provides human resources for other functional areas also.
4) The best example of Strategic Human Resources Management benifiting the Balance Sheets of an organization is that of Maruti Udyog.
Maruti Udyog and Hindustan Motors are two different entities. We know that Maruti Udyog and Hindustan Motors are manufacturing cars, essentially using identical technology. The secret behind the meteoric rise of Maruti is its human resource/workforce. Maruti udyog's workforce highly commends its Human Resources functions as employees know that their self development is guaranteed every day when they enter on their shifts. Their Training Calenders are designed in such a way that their learning directly affects their process flows along with individual performances which is very much evident in the product sales of Maruti Udyog and their extremely well developed employees on their assembly line.
5) SHRM is today heavily involved in the execution of strategy in the form of downsizing and restructuring strategies, through out placing employees instituting performance linked pay plans, reducing health-care costs and retraining employees. Even, in an increasingly competitive global market place, instituting HR practices that build employee commitment can help improve an organisationís responsiveness and is directly responsible for affecting their balance sheets in a positive way.
I can infact go on for ages explaining you that how SHRM affects the overall performance(balance sheets) of the company.
If you get time please also go through Willy Korf Innovation Award Scheme which will give you an idea and insight in a single aspect of SHRM of innovation and creative ideas from employees for a better workplace.
Infact i can give you numerous examples of Human Resources Leaders implementing a Four point program to enhance shareholders(employees) value through capa≠city enhancement, contribution enhancement, reduction in financial cost, enhancing the value of intangibles as strategic steps toward achieving business perfor≠mance.
Do let me know if you need any more thoughts,insights on the subject of Strategic HRM. Would love to enlighten you with many such facts and figures though i know you would definitely agree less to what i have said. :-) :-) :-)
From India, Pune
I find this issue to be quite rampant in the industry - women are often treated unfairly in such matters. If I was moved to a position which was further away from strategy - post "paternity" - I would find it to be a hit on my "dignity". I would've thought that I have earned my way up and I deserve to be higher up than where I am being pushed. That said - most of the advice shared by other members also hold true - exposure etc.
As for Dinesh's question:
Nevertheless, no HR has come up with any credible explanation as to why HR feels need to be business partner? Inability to provide credible explanation apart, I am yet to see any HRBP coming up with evidence to show that how their activities contributed to the revenue generation or reduced operational cost.
My opinion differs here - what role do the coach/physician/trainers play in the outcome of the game (the balance sheet). And till the time AI takes over and HUMAN resources are required at minimal - HR management would play a key role. The role that often a founder of a company plays himself when he/she starts and builds a team.
Two names come to mind immediately for "people who seem to have made noticeable difference" to their team and have been applauded by their respective companies.
Mekin Maheshwari : Chief people officer, Flipkart - "Partner in business success by acquiring & growing talent & establish a talent pipeline that can meet future needs of Flipkart's explosively growing businesses. Make HR Data & Technology driven." (his own words)
Devdutt Patnaik: Chief belief officer, Future Group - "A think tank job meant to help investors and employees understand the difference between the Indian and Western mindset, and there is no such thing as a global mindset." (his own words)
I am sure there are many other example of people who have made a difference to the balance sheet by finding and nurturing the team.
I doubt these people feel the need to be called "business partners" - I think they already know that they are.
Back to your query Sangeeta - I think you need to be careful and not be too aggressive about this situation. It would be wise to keep pushing for the role you want, in a friendly and useful way. If you want to continue in this job - you want your team to be able to tolerate you. So keep calm and keep pushing politely and show them what difference you made before and what you can do now.
From India, Gurgaon
Let me add my points
"The best example of Strategic Human Resources Management benefiting the Balance Sheets of an organization is that of Maruti Udyog."
65% of workforce is Contract labour.
2012 death and violence in Maruti factory has not been forgotten.
Was there a failure which HR could have prevented/
And contract labour get less paid as compared to permanent staff.
How many HR bosses become CEOs in India??
HR can have a role which is aligned with company goals,vision etc and is basically a subset of the vision which gets laid down by Board of directors.
Here in the queriest was upset about being changed to HR Operations which essentially is a company level decision owing to absence for long period due to personal requirement.
Question that whether HR Business Partner plays a bigger role than HR Operations is the main debate.
i can only say without strong well established HR Operations HR BP will not be successful
From India, Pune
The change in any manner is just not acceptable to anyone on first instance. That no change would not be acceptble while one on legally sanctioned leave. And one should fight for the justice and knock the door of the authority for a solution.
I have recently came accorss a similiar case of change role, this happend due to 7 month long absent from duty due to reasons best known to the management. The management put a person in that cahir to manage the show. The new chap not only managed the show perfectly but to the xpectation of management. The person on long leave came to join the duty and the person concerned did not even gave any earlier intimation. However, the concerned submitted his papers & documents as stipulated. The person was asked to handle some other task in same department with same importance. He had to compromise after understood the current situation and development took place in long absence. More of a fun the same employee had gone for two week time. Things are not always favourbale as happend to this fellow employee.
In many ocassions things are being happened without of a bad intention but not always welcome gracefully. I went through all the suggestions, appreciations and reactions over the matter. The change role is inevitable when there is a long absent is happened. In recent past there are several postings came alleging of 'resignation and rejoining' after MB leave. I hope Mr. Divekar has told in this prospective. Hope your boss would come up sportingly to offer the position you are the best.
From India, Mumbai
I have been following this post and I am afraid more heat than lig ht is beind generated. I think many have sidelined the basic issue she has raised.
If I understood correctly, the issue is not whether it is management's prerogative to transfer employee from one role to another or whether HRBP role is more important than HR-operations. Or which HR role contributes to the bottom-lines.
Here the crux of the issue is her Manager, before rejoining her duty after Maternity leave had promised that she would be continued with her current role of HRBP and after she joined he went back on his words and changed her role within four days to HR-operations . He did not offer any convincing reply for his action even after she asked for it. His action therefore, smacked of an ulterior motive and she rightly must have felt cheated. The question ,therefore she is raising is whether her Manager acted unprofessionally by changing her role without giving convincing reasons and what she should do in such situation.She certainly owes reasons for the change of decision and in all fairness the manager should have given the reasons to her particularly when she had asked for it.
To suggest that she should look for another job or accept the change as fait accompli is mundane advice and lacks professional maturity in the given situation.
What she should do is to escalate this matter to the top decision maker and see the end of it.She has already taken steps now in this lines and I am happy about it.
In my view all the HR roles have potential opporunities to contribute to the bottom-lines for one who is seeking for them whether it is HRBP or HR- operations role. Therefore, at the end she should not have hesitation in accepting the role of HR-OPERATIONS for her well rounded growth although she feels she is better cut out for HRBP role.
From India, Mumbai
Probably the manager had instructions from Higher management.
Is the manager is the ultimate authority to deploy staff in that organisation.
The employee has a right to ask why, but the Manager may have given a reply to best of his ability and still not being able to convince an employee.Employee has all the rights to approach higher management which as HR employee she must be fully aware.
Unsaid feeling is that HR BP is superior to Operations and reluctance to shift out could be a cause of not getting convinced.
This is just a discussion to educate ourselves.
Every body advices as per own understanding of problem.
In her place i would accept the change but definitely seek a chance to speak to higher authorities, beyond the particular manager.
From India, Pune
The organization has full right to change roles of individuals as per the business need. Don't think there is anything wrong in it.Though,your manager must have discussed this with you beforehand.You can only raise your discomfort with higher authority but cannot challenge the decision.
From India, Delhi
From India, Pune
I think, i would have thought it would have been a learning curve to have got to work in different area of the same department. The department is not changing. Things like that can happen due to various business, department requirements. This could also be one of clauses in the offer letter.
Also on a positive side, see that he /she is giving an other role to play with in the same department, but not asking you to go to other department. We are also at times talking of Job Rotation, this is something similar right, where everybody might have to get into other job to know the pros and con's of position and moreso, if you were be a mentor in future for generation next.
It is better to have an open discussion, look into the context in which this is offered to you, rather than dwell on the same issue, losing your peace of mind.
From India, Visakhapatnam