Thread Started by #lmp_constructions@yahoo.com

Dear Friends ,
I have been recently ordered under sec 45A to pay a huge sum of Rs 1,98,000.00,
For having not filed returns intermittently during no work period of 2 to 4 months average each year from 2011 ,
No records are kept as we are providing casual workers who are Migrant ( not permanent and casual),
how to justify that we were not engaged during those periods ,
since the ESIC is asking for records to prove we had no work ,
we can prove we have work Vide PO or LOI , but how to prove otherwise,
Please help ,
Iam From Mysore and cater to services of Providing ESIC compliance to Civil Contractors
L . Mohan Pillai
9845161745
17th October 2017 From India, Bengaluru
You would have filed zero contribution by showing them with zero workdays for those Months. why didn't you? Please visit ESIC site go to Employer grievances and register your complaint. Also Prepare a blank muster with names of all employees for which contribution is not paid and mark them absent for all those days. Take the copy of that along with your balance sheet for that year and visit to nearest ESIC AO.
18th October 2017 From India, Pune
thank you mr Aniket ,
Blank muster for that period is okay ,
but what if they insist for all musters ,
I do not posses it and as i recently shifted my premises , wherein all old documents were cleared and only current documents have been kept pertaining to last financial year , what is the period to maintain these records,
can i prepare a duplicate and submit , but already i had given an explanation and letter , they refused to acknowledge it , now order u/s 45A is also Passed ,
iam confused , further in previous couple of months only 6 to 8 people were present and the rest were marked as leave , but the claim by ESIC is for all the members , even when marked as leave to be paid ,
ESIC can claim like that only when there is no way to ascertain ( no previous months records,) but the have unjustly put forth the Claim for
1. there was no work still claim is made
2. Claimed for total members ( even absentees )in spite of Previous members strength record
3.any previous similar case history , please provide the same it may help
4 Can i submit docs after sec 45A Order is passed ,
Your help would be of great value ,
Regards,
18th October 2017 From India, Bengaluru
Records should be maintained PF ESIC some times ask records as old as 10 years. not older than that.
you might have got many notices before this order. Give me some time i will get back to you on the same after talking with some esic officials.
18th October 2017 From India, Pune
Notices (1 only) were returned as i had shifted the premises ,
the same new address was updated online but it is not reflecting ,
finally i was communicated over phone and time was short to provide the documents as i was unable to ,
Thank you , much obliged for your help Sir ,
18th October 2017 From India, Bengaluru
Dear Sir,
As you already mentioned that order has been passed in this case nothing can be done. As before this order you might have got c18 and a chance of personal hearing. The facts provided by you must been deemed unsatisfactory as you failed to submit the records. you must at least preserve 5 years of records in such cases. I would have suggested something but, nothing much can be done after Order. Now please pay the amount as soon as you can as it has 25 % interest. then you will get c-19 as a recovery certificate of payment. If you don't pay it can lead to CP2 (i.e Recovery by force). now this is easy way.
Now i will tell you the hard way if you want to fight, In the copy of order it is written that if you are not satisfied you can go to labour court. For that you need to have hard evidence like your balance sheet that you didn't paid the salary and not liable to pay the dues claimed by esic. Please don't go unprepared in the court. There are many such cases in the court.
Choose wisely.
18th October 2017 From India, Pune
I do understand it is late , and court and legal fees etc and unwanted hassles with no assured result seems unwise ,
i was suggested by a friend that a few regular ie though they are casual they are quite regular when called to work , can i pay them some wages as for the specified omitted periods ( Since my usual contribution for any member is for few days ranging 5 to 10 days during work periods and true too ) and contribute ESIC for the same omitted period and reduce the burden of not paying the whole unscientific amount Demanded by ESIC ,
will esic accept this mode ,
18th October 2017 From India, Bengaluru
As order has already been passed it will stand as it is same with amount due. if you want to do anything you have to first apply against the order in the court.
18th October 2017 From India, Pune
To 19.1.2019.
Dear CiteHR Members.
Dear Sir,
SUB: Imp. Systems, Rules, Forms to improve P&A works, to work
P&A Dept. HOW HR MANAGERS ARE “CHANGE AGENT”?
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INTRODUCTION:
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I am an Ex AGM-HR&Adm.with 35 yrs.exp.in HR, IR, LEGAL, & Admn., Management Works of 7 Mfg.Co’s.,Corporate Offices of Steel, Power, Chemical Plants & Mines. in Ballari,Chitradurga, B’lur,Chennai,Hyd.etc.,Secretary for ISO Certification & HR&Management Consultant for 6 years.
(Abbreviations used to save space).
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I am providing Training to Individual Officers, Managers, Company Officials, Freshers; to ASSIST them to improve their HRA&IR works with S.O.P. for Factory, Mines, all types of Estt./Office Admn., Recruitment, Attendance, Salary-Benefit Admin., Grading of employees, Statutory Compliance, Regn., Licence, Leave, Legal, PF, ESI, PA/PMS,T&D, Welfare, C.L.- from Recruitment to Separation - with all Systems, Rules, Forms etc., for H.R. Management - in Soft & Hard Copy - for easy understanding - to perform their works efficiently & Professionally.
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I am giving below some of the Imp.HR Systems, Rules which are not there in many Cos. Pl.also read the List of 52 Imp.HR Forms. It will help you to make HR Systems, Rules, compile, comply with Statutory obligations, Auditing, Recruitment, M.I.S.,PA/PMS, Grading of all levels of employees, Inspection of F.I., L.I., PF, ESI etc., .
IT IS MANDATORY FOR EVERY COMPANY TO ENSURE to IMPLEMENT, ENFORCE & COMPLY WITH ALL INDUSTRIAL, LABOUR LAWS & ACTS .
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Today; All Managers are HR / Personnel Managers as they have to get all their works done thru’ their employees. Cos. designate Expd.& trusted Managers to take charge of HR functions due to various works & problems involved in administering HR matters.
Most Managers; when they want a solution / confront with a problem; they refer to GOOGLE; rather than ask Expert or go for Training to enrich their knowledge from expd. Professionals.
For ex: when u want to know what is “Probation or Standing Orders” and you GOOGLE; u get 10+ Answers /options for 1 question; each one different from the other & even then; u may not get a Ready to use Answer/Form with all Rules & clarifications to use; as u can get from an Expert with 25+yrs. exp. in 6-7 Mfg.Cos. due to his practical handling exp. & exposure to different situations & environments.
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HR&A Mgrs. are called CHANGE AGENT. WHY? It is the HR Mgrs. who Attracts, Recruits, Encourages, Develops, Retains & Finally; Settles every employees problems /matters from Recruitment to Separation & Liaison with Govt. Officers like F.I, L.I., PCB, PF,ESI, Police, Public etc.,to help the Co. to comply with various Statutory Obligations & to employees; to get their benefits.
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HR&Admn. Mgrs. in many Cos. are often questioned / teased by HODs/GM/MD including the employees for NOT making / following Rules on the below HR issues:-
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1. How xyz got job, who interviewed /selected, who fixed Design., Salary, Grade etc; in Cos. which don’t have proper Criteria /Forms for Selection thru’ a Team of Panel Members; since HRD will have to deal with such sensitive problems of the employees who will react unlike Materials, Machines; which don’t react as men do. Standard Cos. prescribe Min.3 – (1. HOD of concerned Dept., 2. Unit Head & 3.HR Head) to take care of major HR works like Recruitment, Promotion, SI, Revision of Salary, Change of Desgn., etc., to maintain harmonious relation & to protect Co’s / Management’s Reputation.
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FOR RECRUITMENT, APPOINTMENT, EVERY Co. MUST HAVE
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1. MAN POWER INDENT / REQUISITION FORM (MPIF) &
2. INTERVIEW ASSESSMENT-SELECTION & APPL.FOR APPOINTMENT FORM; wherein
HRMgr.will get the reqd. details to call the right person for Interview & Interview Panel Members will get all Personal details of the candidates tobe interviewed; factors tobe assessed; viz., His Qlfcn., Exp.,, Suitability/Fitness for job, Age, Native/Present place, Present Post, Salary, Expected salary, Panel Members Recommendations, HR Verification of Candidates details vis-a-vis existing employees Salary; HR Mgrs. Proposal to fix Post, Salary etc.,before putting up Proposal to MD for Approval; to avoid heart-burning among employees after Appointment; disturbing harmonious relation at Plant.
HR Mgr. to start Recruitment process only after receiving Appd.MPIF from User Dept. (like Accts.Dept. doesn’t pay even Rs.50/- without Appd.Indent).
My New MPIF & Interview Form provides all above essential points reqd. to solve Recruitment, Interview & Selection problems.
(Some Cos. adopted them as they do not have updated Forms).
GM/MD must issue Orders that no person will be Recruited/Appointed without the above 2 Forms are filled & verified by HR Mgr. before putting up Proposal for Apptt. to MD for Approval.
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2. EXISTING CO. APPLICATION / BIO-DATA FORM not providing imp. dtls.of all empl’s, Family, Dependents, Nominee, Person to Contact in Emergency to update / furnish details in Statutory Returns to F.I., L.I.,P.F.I., ESI, IT, PT., Bank, HRIS etc., Hence, many HR Mgrs. face problems to give Per.dtls. to GM/MD, Govt.Officers etc. as the following current infn. is missing-
1. No Present Address to send Notice to X,
2. Mobile No. changed & unable to contact X
3. No Nominee’s detls.or dtls. of Person to
contact in Emergency; to Notify accident etc.
4. No Nominee’ detls. to send payment of
deceased X
5. No detls. of Marriage/Family, Children,
dependents
6. No detls.of Aadhar,Pan Card for PF, ESI,I.Tax etc.
7. No detls. of latest Addnl. Qlfcn. etc., to
review Career Growth, Spl.Increment etc.,
8. No Bank A/c.No.IFC Code No.etc.to send F.S./payment
(My NEW BIO-DATA FORM will help U to collect all such infn. 60 Points. Some Cos. adopted them as their Co.Appn. had less than 20 points. Pl.check No. of points in ur Co.’s Appn. Form).
3. ABSENCE OF Proper FORM FOR PERFORMANCE ASSESSMENT TO ASSESS EMPL’S. PERFORMANCE to give Designation, Promotion, Increment, Grading; can lead to Grievances, dis-satisfaction, attrition, problems to HR Mgrs. to administer P&A works.
GM/MD must issue Orders that HOD must fill up the above Form for Regularisation of Trainees, Confirmation of Probationers, Promotion, Upgradation, S.I., Change of Designation etc. and the same must be verified by HR Manager before putting up Proposal for MD’s Approval.
WHEN GRADING, FIXING, REVISING SALARY /INCREMENT IS PROPOSED FOR THE FIRST TIME; BASED ON HIS EXISTING QLFCN.,EXP.,SALARY ETC., IT CAN CAUSE GRIEVANCES TO SOME EMPLOYEES WHO ARE LEFT OUT/NOT CONSIDERED. HOD proposing Change of Design., Promotion, S.I., should fill up P.A. Form with justification; so that HRD & Mgmnt will not be questioned for any anomaly or denial to left out employees.
HR Mgr. should ensure that all employees Personal dtls. including Qlfcn. Exp., Past service, Salary details are there in Per.file & Checked.
P.A.FORM SHOULD BE SELF-EXPLANATORY WITH CHECKS & BALANCE POINTS; TO FACILITATE:-
A. HODs to assess his Employee’s Work Exp., Performance, Attitude, his Personal details etc., to propose.
B. HRD to review the case; taking into account his Qlfcn., Exp., Performance, Disciplinary issues, Merit of the case; effect/reaction it may cause to Others who were left out etc.,
and then; HRMgr to put up Proposal to MD for appl. so that both HODs & HRD did the Checks & Balance Exercise to minimize any flaw to implement Proposal and Mgmnt & HRD is not ridiculed for any problems; later.
My NEW P.A.Form contains 30 Requisite points- CHECKS & BALANCE to help HODs & HRD. As P.A.FORM PLAYS AN IMP.ROLE TO FACILITATE HODS & HRD TO IMPLEMENT HR PROPOSALs, Pl.check No.of points in your existing PA; Whether Checks & Balance Points are covered etc. If not, pl.contact to share more.
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4.NATIONAL & FESTIVAL HOLIDAYS Act – DUSSEHRA, DIVALI – OPTIONAL/RESTRICTED HOLIDAYS:
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As Jan.,2019 has arrived, the P&A Dept. would have filed HOLIDAYS LIST-2019 with L.I., F.I., & exhibited on Notice Boards as per the above Act. If you have provided O/R Holidays, it is OK. If not; you can consider the following points during 2019 and review the O/R Holidays in 2020 based on the benefits to the Co.; employee’s needs, morale etc.,due to not providing O/R Holidays (mentioned below) in 2019 and make the List for 2020 including them.
Some Cos. declared 11 to 15 days Holidays for National & Festival Holidays in 2018 including the 5 National Holidays (COMPULSORY) as per the Karnataka Holidays (N&F) Act, 1963.
Further, the remaining days are also declared as COMPULSORY Holidays; due to which; all employees have to observe all Festival Holidays though some donot want to but; he has no option since the Co.has declared it COMPULSORY. Whereas; he has to apply for leave to observe any of the following Festivals which he/his family wants to celebrate or to go to his/family place; since Co. has not included them in the Declared Festival Holidays.
New Year Day Makara Sankranti Maha Shivarathri , Good Friday,
Ayudha Pooja, Naraka Chaturdasi , Eid Milad etc.,
Hence, you can declare 5 National Holidays COMPULSORY + some imp.Festivals like
Ugadi, Diwali, Ganesh Chaturthi etc.,
so that; the employees will have an option to take other Festivals (mentioned above) which he/his family wants to celebrate or plan to go to his place with family etc.for which; he need not apply for leave.
HOLIDAYS LIST - 2019 is prepared with O/R HOLIDAYS. If you have not done with O/R ; Pl. contact to share more.
BENEFIT TO THE COMPANY: Some HODs face Manpower (MP) Shortages to man Essential Services during Festivals like Dusserha, Divali when 3-4 Holidays come at a time. OPTIONAL HOLIDAYS will help Continuous Working of Essential Services(like Prodn., O&M, Utility, IT,HR&A, Transport, Canteen, OHC (which require un-interrupted Works) to ensure Min.MP to man Essential Services as most empl’s don’t observe all Festivals at 1 time & so, when 1 set of empl’s take Holiday, other set can work & vise-versa.
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5. LEAVE CARD (L.C) VS. LEAVE APPN. (L.A.) FORM:
Some Companies are still using loose Leave Appn.Form for taking of Leave instead of adopting Leave Card System. As the present Leave Appn. is loose & 100s of such Appns. comes to HR Dept., Seniors cannot Check, keep track, tally with Biometric data as can be checked with Single Leave Card & hence, Certify Attendance as put up by the staff. In case of discrepancy; or complaint, checking/tracing of old L.A. is difficult; will delay Salary Processing etc., Since some employees will take 2-3 times leave in a month, Co. has to Print 1000s of copies of L.A. every time as against Printing of 1 Leave Card for 1 employee for 1 year. Also; many L.A.,are zeroxed due to urgency; increasing the cost. L.C. Saves printing & zerox Cost where lot of empl’s. Work. After one year, keep LC in Per.File as Record to verify throughout their service; Empl. will know how often he is taking Leave & plan his taking of leave. HOD can caution, Mis-use / approve on need basis.
The imp.Managerial work of P&D to check / tally Attendance cannot be done or is ignored since; P&D has not adopted L.C.System.(Finance Dept.can check & tally all expenses a/c.). One reason for not adopting L.C. is; many HR Mgrs/GMs.not knowing its benefit
for HRD.

BENEFIT OF LEAVE CARD TO THE COMPANY:
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In case of L.C.; since there will be only one Card for every employee for one year, the L.C., moves thru’ the HODs, HRD., Accts., Auditors, Sanctioning Authority-GM/MD throughout the year. It helps them to check; see the correctness of all Leaves; specially; P.L. as it is cash. This Check itself will reduce discrepancies; and lead to a qualitative change in the attitude of all P&A Ofcrs to check the L.C. when it comes to them (AND EVERY L.C. MUST GO TO P&A Officers TO PERFORM THEIR MANGERIAL WORK OF VERIFICATION). It makes employees extra cautious & plan to take leave unlike in the case of Loose L.A. which only helps to get sanction of Leave but none to check. As L.C. is a manually entered Card & checked by P&A, Auditors, etc., it is accepted by all as Authenticated & Seniors rely for its correctness. Hence, L.C. helps to compute Leave, make Pay Roll & F.S. work fast.
If you have not yet introduced L.C; to start with; u may make it as under:
1. One side of the Leave Card to apply for Leave &
2. Backside; u can print Leave Rules for the infn.& compliance of all employees so that;
in one Card; u can get both the works done & u will have an effective & useful System in place for Leave Management.
The existing System of applying for Leave Online, Punching, Face Reader Bio-metric etc., will continue. Only the L.A.Form will be replaced with L.C. for several benefits for the Co.’s P&A function.
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6. INDUCTION Process; the 1st Impression, Confidence building, sharing tool; between New Recruitees, Co., HODs & Reporting Officers do not exist. Joining, Welcoming, Introducing formalities; providing basic infn., facilities etc., to the new Recruitee are essential to create a sense of belonging / Retaining, career growth etc.,.
7. ABSENCE OF PROPER FORMS, RULES TO PAY, REGULATE ADVANCE, LOAN, EXPENSES, OD, TA, Co-Off, PL Encashment, MB etc., affects Administration of P&A works. A uniform Policy, Forms will reduce writing works & save precious time of Officers, employees and facilitate fast working of P&A and Accounts Dept.
8. ABSENCE OF ASSET DAMAGE / BREAKAGE / INJURY REPORTING SYSTEM, Forms: Assets Registering of costly items like Laptop, Mobile, Instruments, tools, Movement Systems, Employment Injury; can result in Loss to Co., delay to claim insurance / settle payment etc.
9. RESIGNATION ACCEPTANCE, NO DUE / CLEARANCE CERTIFICATE, Relieving & Final Settlement- No proper Form / System after HOD sends Resignation Letr. to HR. No Feedback to the person, HOD etc. from HRD reg. Resignation Acceptance, No Due / Clearance Certificate , Exit Interview, F.S. etc., to regularise Separation.
10. ABSENT NOTIFICATION FORM - - A.N.F.
Another imp.issue for which HRMgr. is blamed is the Absenteeism of employees in different Depts. & initiating disciplinary action for A.O.S.
Absenteeism is common in some of the Labour Intensive Cos.& it can become an issue if not dealt with promptly. HRD. is blamed for laxity.
Qtn.: When X in Prodn. Dept. absents, whether HR or Prodn. Dept. to initiate action?? HR to take Action against erring employee only when concerned HOD sends A.N.F. to him. Proper Disc.Procedures, Rules tobe followed for AOS lest; Court will nullify Termination as void. The above Form helps to Report & initiate action for Absenteeism. A Circular & ANF Form to be sent to all HODs to Monitor, Report Absenteeism & to initiate Disciplinary action.
11. WHY STANDING ORDERS (S.O.) - I.D. Act - Issues.
A Certified STANDING ORDERS under Indus. Employment (S.O) Act; empowers the Co. to take Disc. Action against its Erring Empl’s. for violating T&C in S.O. BUT; the Co. cannot punish Empl’s. for acts not included in S.O. - SUPREME COURT.
Company Suspends, Terminates employees leading to Litigation, grievance; damaging Co.reputation; besides wasting Co.’s time & Money. TERMINATION WITHOUT ENQUIRY / NATURAL JUSTICE etc. IS ILLEGAL & Court can re-instate such Empl’s.
S.O. Act obliges Cos.with 50+ empl.to adopt S.O. to regulate Employment conditions, Master-Servant Relation -tobe Certified by DLC & displayed for infn. & compliance by Co. & all empls.

Imp.Do’s, Don’t’s, Duties of Empl’s., Mis-conducts for which empl’s. LIABLE FOR DISCI.ACTION-80 points. Imp.t&c.in Appt.Order.-for Sk.empl.-30,Suprvsrs & above-40. Pl.include Imp.acts/Conducts in S.O. & A.O.,and Follow PROCEDURES of NATURAL JUSTICE to make Co’s. action LEGAL.
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Every HRMgr. must have all Imp. HR Acts, Systems, Rules, Forms to administer HR works effectively & Professionally; as HR Mgr. is answerable to
F.I., L.I., PFI, Pension, ESI, Gratuity, PT, other Govt. Officers, Auditors, HODs, GM/MD, Employees etc., and he has to solve all employees problems; keep Records in Per. Files for future ref. DURING THE LIFE OF EMPLOYEES & CO. ITSELF.
REQUEST: As these are imp. HR&Admn. Rules, U may print, read & preserve them for future reference. (I have developed 200+ imp.HR Rules, Forms etc.,) Pl. SHARE THIS WITH UR SENIORS & FORWARD to UR H.R.FRIENDS IN OTHER Cos.for their infn.& help them/me.
I can provide you all Updated, Ready-to-use HR Systems, Rules, Forms & assist you to introduce & implement them.
Thanking you & awaiting to hear from you.
With Kind Regards,
C.N. Khan,HR & Mgmnt Consultant&Advocate(Ex-AGM-HR&A-35 yrs exp. in HR,IR,LegalAdmn.in7 Mfg.Co.s+Secy.for ISO certification).
Ph: 9535470460- E-Mailid:
SANDUR / HOSPET, BENGALURU
Ex-Member, NIPM, Calcutta, Ex- Tr.Member, I.I.M., B;luru.
Languages known: Kannada, Tamil, Telugu + Hindi & English
19th January 2019 From India, Mumbai
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