Dear Sir,
We had appointed Accountant in our organisation last week. In our concern no formal procedures.
After joining ,the candidate asked offer letter otherwise he would quit the job. But the management told ,only after three months we give offer letter.
Each and every time we are facing any one of the problem.
As a HR what we can we do?
From India, Coimbatore
We had appointed Accountant in our organisation last week. In our concern no formal procedures.
After joining ,the candidate asked offer letter otherwise he would quit the job. But the management told ,only after three months we give offer letter.
Each and every time we are facing any one of the problem.
As a HR what we can we do?
From India, Coimbatore
What is the harm in giving the Offer letter to the candidates who has already joined your company, he/she has the right to demand the Appointment Letter on the joining date
From India, Ahmadabad
733From India, Ahmadabad
Hi Gopinath,
What is the agenda behind not issuing the employment documents to the employees in your organization? What is the nature of your organization's business? Also being a HR what steps have you taken to rectify these episodes? If basis procedures are not been formalized, then there is no need for a HR in your company. Anyone would be able to run the show.
From India, Bangalore
What is the agenda behind not issuing the employment documents to the employees in your organization? What is the nature of your organization's business? Also being a HR what steps have you taken to rectify these episodes? If basis procedures are not been formalized, then there is no need for a HR in your company. Anyone would be able to run the show.
From India, Bangalore
Dear Mahesh,
Your organisation needs to follow the correct procedure once the employee joins your company. Issue of Appointment Letter after three months is gross neglect of either Shops & Establishment Act or Factory Act. Anyway other two members have given their opinions on it and there is nothing to add further.
I would like to express my concern on the choice of your terminology. How come you have jumbled between the terms "Offer Letter" and "Appointment Letter"? Former is issued to the job candidate to express willingness of organisation to take him/her on board whereas latter is issued once the job candidate actually joins the organisation. You should have used the term "Appointment Letter" and not "Offer Letter".
Noteworthy fact of your post is that the post has come from a well-qualified person. The query hardly behoves well to your qualification. Going further, there is a serious error in the post also. Adhering to the legal phrases or official terms in our communication is important rule of communication. No professional, HR or otherwise, can bypass this rule.
For Saji and Mahesh: - It is unfortunate to note that both the seniors like you have overlooked the major flaw in the post!
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Your organisation needs to follow the correct procedure once the employee joins your company. Issue of Appointment Letter after three months is gross neglect of either Shops & Establishment Act or Factory Act. Anyway other two members have given their opinions on it and there is nothing to add further.
I would like to express my concern on the choice of your terminology. How come you have jumbled between the terms "Offer Letter" and "Appointment Letter"? Former is issued to the job candidate to express willingness of organisation to take him/her on board whereas latter is issued once the job candidate actually joins the organisation. You should have used the term "Appointment Letter" and not "Offer Letter".
Noteworthy fact of your post is that the post has come from a well-qualified person. The query hardly behoves well to your qualification. Going further, there is a serious error in the post also. Adhering to the legal phrases or official terms in our communication is important rule of communication. No professional, HR or otherwise, can bypass this rule.
For Saji and Mahesh: - It is unfortunate to note that both the seniors like you have overlooked the major flaw in the post!
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Dear Dinesh
If you have gone through the reply, you would have noticed that, have pointed out that what is harm in giving the Offer Letter "as per the query of the poster" wherein the employee has the right to demand the Appointment Letter on joining.
From India, Ahmadabad
If you have gone through the reply, you would have noticed that, have pointed out that what is harm in giving the Offer Letter "as per the query of the poster" wherein the employee has the right to demand the Appointment Letter on joining.
From India, Ahmadabad
Dear Saji,
Job candidates resign on the strength of Offer Letter that they receive from their future employer. However, if the offer letter is not issued and yet employee joins then issue of offer letter has no meaning. To start legitimate employer-employee relationship, what is is needed is issue of Appointment Letter.
Those who are not from HR, they might confuse between offer letter and appointment letter but certainly this was not expected from HR professional. Far from correcting newly joined employee, HR also became party to this confusion. Hence my previous post.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
Dear Dinesh
If you have gone through the reply, you would have noticed that, have pointed out that what is harm in giving the Offer Letter "as per the query of the poster" wherein the employee has the right to demand the Appointment Letter on joining.
Today From India, Ahmadabad
Best Regards
Saji
From India, Bangalore
Job candidates resign on the strength of Offer Letter that they receive from their future employer. However, if the offer letter is not issued and yet employee joins then issue of offer letter has no meaning. To start legitimate employer-employee relationship, what is is needed is issue of Appointment Letter.
Those who are not from HR, they might confuse between offer letter and appointment letter but certainly this was not expected from HR professional. Far from correcting newly joined employee, HR also became party to this confusion. Hence my previous post.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
Dear Dinesh
If you have gone through the reply, you would have noticed that, have pointed out that what is harm in giving the Offer Letter "as per the query of the poster" wherein the employee has the right to demand the Appointment Letter on joining.
Today From India, Ahmadabad
Best Regards
Saji
From India, Bangalore
Dear Dinesh
I do agree with your statement, even I am of the same opinion, it seems that you have mistaken my view point. The poster has asked that he/she is facing the same problem every time so as a HR what they are suppose to do. So keeping that in view I have asked what is the harm in issuing the offer letter to the candidate "before their joining". On the contrary the employee has the right to demand the Appointment Letter on joining itself, wherein the poster/employer is hesitant giving that too on joining but wants to give after 3 months of joining.
I am very well aware that the offer letter does not carry any value after joining, but the Appointment Letter.
My reply to the poster is that an Offer Letter has to be send to the candidate on their selection itself to know the consent of the candidate accepting the offer, and on joining an Appointment Letter has to be issued with all terms and conditions and the Salary Breakup. Hopes that this clears the confusion of the poster
From India, Ahmadabad
I do agree with your statement, even I am of the same opinion, it seems that you have mistaken my view point. The poster has asked that he/she is facing the same problem every time so as a HR what they are suppose to do. So keeping that in view I have asked what is the harm in issuing the offer letter to the candidate "before their joining". On the contrary the employee has the right to demand the Appointment Letter on joining itself, wherein the poster/employer is hesitant giving that too on joining but wants to give after 3 months of joining.
I am very well aware that the offer letter does not carry any value after joining, but the Appointment Letter.
My reply to the poster is that an Offer Letter has to be send to the candidate on their selection itself to know the consent of the candidate accepting the offer, and on joining an Appointment Letter has to be issued with all terms and conditions and the Salary Breakup. Hopes that this clears the confusion of the poster
From India, Ahmadabad
Dear All,
Please allow me to add value in the above wonderful conversations.
First of all the implied act of the employer as well as the employee itself state about the joining of the accountant. So there is nothing harm to issue a offer letter when asked for.
But it is the natural right of an individual to ask for an appoint letter. Generally many firms denies to issue offer letter as well as appoint letter, so my suggestion to the employee to keep the payslip or the a/c credit statement for any future reference.
Next speaking about the law of the Land. Would like to highlight with my limited knowledge that 'Appointment letter' is guided by the following Acts, which is described below:-
1. Sales Promotion Employees Act 1976:- Which makes mandatory to issue appoint letter within 3 months, but presently the Act is applied only in the Pharmaceutical sector.
2. S&E Act:- As this Act is a State specific Act hence rules varies from state to sate. For instance Employer is mandate to furnish Form-X (Appointment letter) at the time of obtaining registration or whenever asked for in any inspection. at the same time in Section 33 of the Delhi-Shops and Establishments Act, 1954 Appointment letter has to be exhibited conspicuously at the premises of the Establishment.
3. CLRA Act:- Service certificate Form XV, Though in strict sense we cannot call it as offer or an appoint letter. But it may suffice as an experience letter or employment where the employer denies to issue any letter to the employee.
Generally the Co. policy also guides the administration or operation issues, and where the policy remain silent the matter needs to be accommodated suitably.
In the contrary where the employer denies to issue any offer letter or appointment letter or any letter, the matter can be settled down after putting resignation and that to formally after serving the notice period (stated in the resignation letter). Nowhere the Co. can escape their moral obligation.
From India, Kolkata
Please allow me to add value in the above wonderful conversations.
First of all the implied act of the employer as well as the employee itself state about the joining of the accountant. So there is nothing harm to issue a offer letter when asked for.
But it is the natural right of an individual to ask for an appoint letter. Generally many firms denies to issue offer letter as well as appoint letter, so my suggestion to the employee to keep the payslip or the a/c credit statement for any future reference.
Next speaking about the law of the Land. Would like to highlight with my limited knowledge that 'Appointment letter' is guided by the following Acts, which is described below:-
1. Sales Promotion Employees Act 1976:- Which makes mandatory to issue appoint letter within 3 months, but presently the Act is applied only in the Pharmaceutical sector.
2. S&E Act:- As this Act is a State specific Act hence rules varies from state to sate. For instance Employer is mandate to furnish Form-X (Appointment letter) at the time of obtaining registration or whenever asked for in any inspection. at the same time in Section 33 of the Delhi-Shops and Establishments Act, 1954 Appointment letter has to be exhibited conspicuously at the premises of the Establishment.
3. CLRA Act:- Service certificate Form XV, Though in strict sense we cannot call it as offer or an appoint letter. But it may suffice as an experience letter or employment where the employer denies to issue any letter to the employee.
Generally the Co. policy also guides the administration or operation issues, and where the policy remain silent the matter needs to be accommodated suitably.
In the contrary where the employer denies to issue any offer letter or appointment letter or any letter, the matter can be settled down after putting resignation and that to formally after serving the notice period (stated in the resignation letter). Nowhere the Co. can escape their moral obligation.
From India, Kolkata
Dear Friends,
No individual will be joining any organisation unless that individual receive an invitation in any form (except oral), get an I/Card, employment card or mustering daily attendance etc. etc.
As per CLRA(Labour Act), issue of formal appointment letter is mandatory (when it comes to litigation).
Dear G.Sangeetha,
You being an HR person, you must grab the opportunity, assert your power, formulate the system and tell the Top Management that issue of Appointment Letter creates Confidence among the employees about the company and can give better output, in addition to organizing a better HR system. This appointment letter also fixes the responsibility of the employee and should carry the service conditions such as Leave(s), Salary/Perks etc. etc.
This requirement is also meant for any and every employee/Executive except the Owner/Proprietor. If it is a Partnership firm or a group of companies, then CMD/Director/Partner are required to be authorised by other Director(s)/Partner(s) in the form of Resolution to carry-out and run the company, which is in plain understanding, is also an Appointment Letter.
An Appointment letter is an authorisation to a employee to carry-out certain functions with responsibility in the factory/office, if not no one can be held responsible for any lapse and they can easily escape.
Now the individual being an Accountant, without any specific Appointment Letter, he/she can not be held responsible for any errors.
Now, I will slightly differ from Mr.Pradipnath's ending statement. i.e. when there is no appointment letter, where is the question of resignation with notice period.
Thanks to All,
From India, Thane
No individual will be joining any organisation unless that individual receive an invitation in any form (except oral), get an I/Card, employment card or mustering daily attendance etc. etc.
As per CLRA(Labour Act), issue of formal appointment letter is mandatory (when it comes to litigation).
Dear G.Sangeetha,
You being an HR person, you must grab the opportunity, assert your power, formulate the system and tell the Top Management that issue of Appointment Letter creates Confidence among the employees about the company and can give better output, in addition to organizing a better HR system. This appointment letter also fixes the responsibility of the employee and should carry the service conditions such as Leave(s), Salary/Perks etc. etc.
This requirement is also meant for any and every employee/Executive except the Owner/Proprietor. If it is a Partnership firm or a group of companies, then CMD/Director/Partner are required to be authorised by other Director(s)/Partner(s) in the form of Resolution to carry-out and run the company, which is in plain understanding, is also an Appointment Letter.
An Appointment letter is an authorisation to a employee to carry-out certain functions with responsibility in the factory/office, if not no one can be held responsible for any lapse and they can easily escape.
Now the individual being an Accountant, without any specific Appointment Letter, he/she can not be held responsible for any errors.
Now, I will slightly differ from Mr.Pradipnath's ending statement. i.e. when there is no appointment letter, where is the question of resignation with notice period.
Thanks to All,
From India, Thane
Just wondering how did the accountant join the company without being "offered" a job? If he/she is ready to accept an oral offer, then why ask for "offer letter" now - after having already joined work? He/she should rather wait for the month's salary, which is the real purpose of employment.
Actually, "appointment letter" is a double edged knife. On one hand it assures the employee that he/she is a bonafide employee of the company with specified pay and previleges. On the other hand, it binds the employee to the terms and conditions of the service and the rules and regulations of the organisation. Issue of appointment letter is generally delayed till joining formalities are over, back ground checks are done, and sometimes till the probation period is completed.
There are many defualters who join work and leave within a few days. They use the offer letter to bargain for better offer from another company. Sometimes, female employees go on pregnancy leave 8 days after joining. SMEs cannot afford such wastages. HR should protect company's interests as well as the employees. The employee could have been hired as a temporary hand or consultant and if found suitable then be offered an employment.
Finally, HR professionals should distinguish between what is legally binding and what is generally accepted HR best practices. This confusion is typical of HRs who join after an MBA/PGDip where they study more about HR practices borrowed from corporate world. Small companies would rather be worried about legal/statutory requirements.
For instance, the so called offer letter is typical of offshore placements in MNCs, to enable the candidate to get Visa/work permit. It makes no sense in domestic employments, and it does not have any legal sanctity.
From India, Bangalore
Actually, "appointment letter" is a double edged knife. On one hand it assures the employee that he/she is a bonafide employee of the company with specified pay and previleges. On the other hand, it binds the employee to the terms and conditions of the service and the rules and regulations of the organisation. Issue of appointment letter is generally delayed till joining formalities are over, back ground checks are done, and sometimes till the probation period is completed.
There are many defualters who join work and leave within a few days. They use the offer letter to bargain for better offer from another company. Sometimes, female employees go on pregnancy leave 8 days after joining. SMEs cannot afford such wastages. HR should protect company's interests as well as the employees. The employee could have been hired as a temporary hand or consultant and if found suitable then be offered an employment.
Finally, HR professionals should distinguish between what is legally binding and what is generally accepted HR best practices. This confusion is typical of HRs who join after an MBA/PGDip where they study more about HR practices borrowed from corporate world. Small companies would rather be worried about legal/statutory requirements.
For instance, the so called offer letter is typical of offshore placements in MNCs, to enable the candidate to get Visa/work permit. It makes no sense in domestic employments, and it does not have any legal sanctity.
From India, Bangalore
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