Retired From Air India
Manager - Production & Purchase
+3 Others

Thread Started by #sathish.matopat

hi all,
i would like to get some advice regarding we would like to fire 10+ employees without notice ., is it possible to fire all of sudden .,
if there is any policy / law we are violating ?
pls suggest me how to fire employees without notice?
and if there is law means ., pls share me
due to less orders for process, we are not able to retain the employees so, that we would like to fire the employees.
16th July 2015 From India, Coimbatore
when you firing without notice you are violating all fundamental rights of an individual and also all laws of this country. you need to following the process of fair conduct of domestic enquiry where the guidelines of principle of natural justice ensured.
16th July 2015 From India, New Delhi
I would like to ask a counter question,
Would you like to be fired without notice??
""pls suggest me how to fire employees without notice?""
Forum members are here to guide people the right ethical way of sorting out problems.Do not expect Honble members to give you advice on actions which violate fundamental rights,ethics and all industrial rules.
If you are firm/organisation is not getting sufficient orders,please brief the workers,give them notice and some time to look for alternative vocations/jobs.
Suddenly terminating them for business vagaries is poor management and leadership style.
Do not mind my frank words.
16th July 2015 From India, Pune
Dear Nathrao,
Meet individual employees one and one and share the situation clearly, as to why the company do not require there service, and ask for golden handshake. First of all read the appointment letter carefully, check as they are confirmed employee or are on probation period. It is better to counsel them with the option of giving one month notice period in lieu thereof if the clause are there in appointment letter. or please share the following details for better guidance;
What kind of organization you are in?
What kind of employee are?
Is there any union or association??
Is there any complaint against them?
What are the employment conditions you have agreed at the time of appointment, read appointment,
Is your company covered under standing order act?
Is there any grievance redressal system exist in the company and how the system fails to monitor the things, which forcing you to fire them out.
16th July 2015 From India, Gurgaon
Apart from the above members advise, if your company wishes for retrenchment kindly type retrenchment on the Tab "WHAT YOU NEED" on top of this page. You will get plenty of views mentioned therein. If you are willing to take views apart from that for retrenchment please let us know
16th July 2015 From India, Ahmadabad
""or please share the following details for better guidance;"" Dear Mnj.Tiwari, I have not raised this query. Query was raised by Shri Satish.Matopat. Only he can answer your questions/
16th July 2015 From India, Pune
Sir, You are an HR Manager. HR Manager has to be dual adviser. please make this situation as win win situation for both the parties.
16th July 2015 From India, New Delhi
HR managers are generally advisors only.
Decision to hire or fire is by top management.
In such a situation when unilateral shortsighted decision is taken -fire 10 employee-find any reason but we do not want to hear anything,the HR manager himself is placed in total awkward position.
If he quotes rules/laws,then his job also will be in danger.
The management may decide to get another HR manager who will find ways to do what higher management wants.
Fear of losses due to lower order status may have created panic in mind of decision maker/s and thereby the decision is being taken.
Now someone mature and knowledgeable should be able to explain that lean times come and if we brief the workers about financial position,they will understand things in better light.
company can give them options of lesser work and therefore lesser pay for some time or giving unpaid leave etc.
Basically the management will have to show leadership of higher order to overcome such crisis situation.
16th July 2015 From India, Pune

Sometimes win-win situation requires many adjustments... from both sides.....

Look at the news of Technip offshore firing 6000 employees due to the same reason.

Offshore company Technip cut 6,000 employees | Maritime News

Many companies do this & still in an ethical way, so there is nothing wrong in asking this question on the forum on how to do this....

It is not a good idea for company (& also for employees) to give this bad news in advance, when a big number of employees are involved. The mass disappointment can take very bad turns.

Also, a big number of employees on group notice period can be big risk for business in hand for the company.

If the reason is really 'lack of work', then it is not 'all of a sudden'.... I am sure employees are already aware that there is no work & some retrenchment is expected. The issue is, if you make it a public news too early, then the performing staff will easily find another job, & useless staff will remain, to whom you cannot fire then. This affects what small business is available with company.

So, sometimes it is better to not make this news public too early.

Only important thing is to compensate the employees with proper remunerations for the notice period or sustenance period, as per the contract...... Even if this is not "required" as per the contract, considering the service received from these employees, you can think of additional benefits to cover this period for the employees sustenance (Like payment including HRA for the notice period).

Best Regards,

Amdo Bobade
17th July 2015
Business is known for ups and downs.

Vagaries of business is what makes it unpredictable.

Sometimes when there is prolonged periods where orders are not forthcoming,company may have to retrench.

While retrenching is always painful,steps can be taken to reduce pain.

Lay off people closer to retirement,total new comers can also follow.

Give the workers as advance a notice as possible so that they can look around for jobs.

Try and consider a VRS scheme or transfer to group companies if possible.

People are the real resource for any company and they should not part with them so easily.

Tomorrow the situation may turn around and you will not get skilled workers so quickly.

Re skilling can be a thought/idea to be explored.

Dont use temporary downturns as an opportunity to let people go.

Take considered decisions and see whether the company can weather the storm.

It may be easy to let go in crisis but if you hold on the workers will show double loyalty as they are aware that inspite of problems the company was welfare oriented enough to struggle but held on to people.
17th July 2015 From India, Pune
Dear All,
I really appreciate Mr Nathrao's replies. As suggested by him in his third post , I would like to cite the example of Jet Airways.When things were going bad it asked its cabin crew to take 10 days without pay leave in a month.Like this the financial burden was shared by both the management and employees.Indian Airlines also introduced Sabbatical leave of 2 yrs to 5 yrs for its employees ,without pay.The employees were assured that their inter-se seniority would be maintained.Many took advantage of this.Sacking outright some employees just because business is down is very unethical.
17th July 2015 From India, New Delhi

With all due respect to the opinion, we should not forget that Indian airlines is in debts & in very poor condition since always. Indian Airlines did not pay salary to many employees for months, but could not release them off the duty just due to government laws.... then there were strikes, then they come up with this settlement.

Jet airways has grown a lot around 5 years back, though they have never managed to provide proper service to their customers. Even though they fly internationally, they have not managed to sustain their position in the market.

Retention for the sake of retention restricts growth, & makes employees lazy.

Do you really believe the Indian airlines employees would have worked with full dedication during their midterm 2 year job with another employer?

We can see this 'inefficiency' in every government sector today, because of the very strong job security rules.

As said in previous post, there is nothing unethical to fire employees, if proper monitory remunerations are provided.

Best Regards,

Amod Bobade.
20th July 2015
First i want to appreciate Mr. Nathrao for his submission on above thread. I also want to salute the way of win win situation you explained with pros and cons.

Now i would like to comment on thread initiated by Mr. Satish.

Satish ji when a company do business they do with proper planning and budgeting. Every business has good months as well lean order situation during every financial year. In average company do business in profit thats why they continue in the market for long run.

Every business has to face four situation that is initiation, Growth, Maturity, Decline as per management study. In maturity stage every industry or business has to work on innovation otherwise there are fear of obsolete and decline in business. Good company always grow because they continuously work on their weaknesses and get it settled before it result in loss.

I don't know how old your company is but question you asked really hearts everybody in the forum. How to fire people legally you can learn from ID act 1947 in retrenchment section but it would be appreciated by everyone if you asked how to continue our employee since company lost their goodwill of getting order from the wide market. HR profession is a noble profession where we really can serve the people and nation so you do as per the way shared by Mr. Nathrao in above thread.
12th September 2015 From India, Chandigarh
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