Dinesh Divekar
Business Mentor, Consultant And Trainer
V.Raghunathan
Process Industry Consultant / Soft Skill
CHR
Founder Cite.co
Gopinath Varahamurthi
Mindhour Partner, Ass.professor/adm. Officer,
Korgaonkar K A
Ba,llb,mpm,dir&pm,dll&lw,d.cyber
Raj Kumar Hansdah
Shrm, Od, Hrd, Pms
Aussiejohn
Trainer
Anu_1259
Human Resource Domain
Pierson_david
Executive Secretary
+4 Others

Thread Started by #CHR

We understand that a LOT of our members are consultants and we are now going to focus on trying to help them gain more business.

To do this we would first require to gain the confidence of the corporates by highlighting the specialties of the consultants and consulting firms.

From the beginning, we always knew that the core of this knowledge-base is going to be the knowledge that our consulting members will share and in the initial days we had a feature called the CBOX - which highlighted the user's special interests and area of work.

That feature kind of got dropped when we moved to a different software and was never redeveloped.

The segregation of "Market threads" is a start and will allow people to keep updated on various requests. However, we do not really have a deep understanding of how this consulting market works - so I request all members to put in their thoughts.

Like for example what information do corporates look for when they are looking for independent or small consulting firms? What helps them choose? How do they find them? How do consultants find work? etc etc...

Regards,

Sid
21st April 2015 From India, Gurgaon
Dear Sid,

The heading of the post is "CiteHR - Push to create more business for consulting firms / consultants". However, my eight years of association with this forum show that two types of consultants use this forum. The vast majority that uses this forum only to promote their business and nothing else. In return they do not share their any knowledge or experience for the benefit of the members this forum. Though they crow lot on their knowledge or achievements, they think that the members of this forum do not deserve iota of their knowledge.

Opposite of this category are the few consultant who form miniscule percentage. They help the members of this forum selflessly. There are large number of HR professionals who work all alone and they do not have anyone to guide or help them. Consultants of this second category come forward and try solving their problems. Obviously this is done without any pecuniary gains in mind. Not that consultant from this category do not promote their business. They do it but their altruistic side cannot be overlooked. Occasionally, there were healthy debates because of the divergent views. Through their quality replies, they have left intellectual imprints on the citehr's sands of time!

Now whether to put both the categories at par with each other or give push only to those who enriched this forum by their replies is your call. I request you take this call judiciously.

Thanks,

Dinesh Divekar


21st April 2015 From India, Bangalore
Hi Dinesh,

We have always been very strict with users who just promote without providing any value. Entire accounts are removed, at least 3-4 accounts are removed almost everyday.

The concept has always been - people who add valuable replies gather more enquirers and as a result more business. Many don't seem to understand that and go about posting their profile text everywhere. We are hoping that if we are able to streamline the process of gathering business the incidents of user accounts making repeated promotions will reduce. So, in effect, this will be more about bringing the rogue users into this concept of getting noticed by virtue of actual useful conversations. Which the nicer consultants are already doing.

I feel there are a lot of small companies who need consulting but are weary of getting into any sort of agreement with anyone. Maybe the cost is prohibitive. Maybe they are not even sure about the costs involved.

There may be so many things we aren't even considering right now and maybe we are just completely wrong about our assumption that this, in fact, is a requirement.

So do share your views about how the consulting area works - when people inquire about the costs? What are the general segregations of consulting work? Do consultants carry rate charts of things they offer? How do they decide these rates?

If we were to create a platform to allow users to showcase what they offer, what would be the best way to make it appealing to the buyer of these services.

Regards,

Sid
22nd April 2015 From India, Gurgaon
One must share his knowledge with a view to being helpful.
The more you share,the more you learn.
I have learnt a lot from the erudite posting of some members who liberally quote case law,Sections of various acts and their own knowledge.
The forum has really got an extensive database of knowledge which should be enriched and added to for benefit of the users.
But I also note some members are posting threads earn 95000 PM join Amigosoutsourcing.There are multiple posters abut the same company.
I really wonder whether such threads have value or even how genuine they are.
As far as those who try to promote only their business,I am sure users will be able to notice them and take appropriate cognisance of their posts.
22nd April 2015 From India, Pune
I am currently working on a script to weed out repeat posts in one go. The script will also keep a lookout for such kind of repeat posting in the future and immediately take action.
We have identified about 18000 accounts which have done this and you'll find the community much cleaner very soon. That said we do want to develop an interface which will allow consulting companies / consultants to push their profiles to users who request for such information. Do comment on the previously raised questions to help us understand how things work.
Regards,
Sid
22nd April 2015 From India, Gurgaon
Many small businesses are unaware of all the legal and regulatory requirements and other requirements of various inputs to Government,Municipality,IT ,ESIC,PF etc.
Good consultants are there who would help out in managing their businesses.
Probably there could be a drop down menu for every user where in he can post his requirement for consultation and the website can let him have access to consultants who are members of this learned forum.
Suitable disclaimers can be framed, so that user cross checks suitability,rates and then can decide about whom to consult.
Random posts of data entry -make easy money-all such posts can be avoided or rejected if script is worded appropriately.
This forum should be a base for HR people to be able to browse and learn from others experiences,member advice etc.
HR staff should always think of Citehr as the first place to go for HR related info.
22nd April 2015 From India, Pune
1. How does the consulting business work?

It is not a very structured field in terms of accreditation, certification and fraternity. First of all, there is no central agency that has become a must for consultants. We do have CDC (Consultancy Development Center) and ISTD but not many consultants are liked with them. It is all about who does good work and BD and get clients. The market is also very different in terms of working from region to region. Delhi NCR is 90% relationship selling where as Bangalore and Mumbai are very different.

2. What information do corporates look for when they are looking for independent or small consulting firms?

Corporate companies ask for consultant’s profile or company profile to begin with. This is followed by a meeting and rates negotiation and then presentation of Approach Note and then contract is signed.

3. What helps them choose?

There are a lot of factors:

 Experience of the consultant in the domain

 Certifications

 Place of operation

 Word of mouth or some reference

 What solution the consultant comes up with?

4. How do they (Corporates) find them?

Some of the sources could be:

 Job sites

 Social media

 CiteHR

 References

5. How do consultants find work?

 Personal contacts

 Business development via mails, calling, meeting

 Cold calling

 Job sites

 Social media

 CiteHR

 Association with an agency like CDC (Consultancy Development Center)

 Member of some organization like ISTD

6. What are the general segregations of consulting work?

 Training consulting

 HR consulting

 Management Consulting (Strategic, Ops, Business)

 Engineering Consulting

 Technical Consulting (IT, Hardware, Technology based)

7. Do consultants carry rate charts of things they offer? How do they decide these rates?

Yes. They have a range of rates. They decide it depending upon the experience they carry, type of client, scope of work, duration of work. For example, a fresh trainer might charge 3-5 K per day for facilitation and an experienced trainer might charge 12-15 K per day.

8. If we were to create a platform to allow users to showcase what they offer, what would be the best way to make it appealing to the buyer of these services?

Based on my personal observation, a portal or some features like Naukri.com would be great.

We can also have different categories like, experience, certification, and competencies for the corporates to choose from.
23rd April 2015 From India, Delhi
Dear Friends,

In the virtual world let me give my heartiest and pleasant greetings,

All the issues when clubbed together we find a beautiful solution, with one more agenda of discussion, like that I do entered in Cite HR some times earlier I did give some comments etc., yet, cite HR should evolve to a high grade in a particular way of going a head ..

1) a lot of questions are employee based PF, ESI, wrong submission of accounts, service problems(related to HR, retirement, pension etc.,) really pathetic and poor is one Doctor did not know about service rules..and exploited is the real world exist ..

2) our employer is also a fact of concern without giving proper appointment order, confirmation, PF deducting/undeducting ..some highly rich cases do have the problems of employer recruiting without proper knowledge of recruitment rules is not only a concern it reflects the bad elements in the society...with this what citeHR is going to do?

3) Whether the cite HR is going to help the scholars for employer/employee related problems in the society in their doing Phd etc.,

4) As regard consultant .. a lot of consultants can be segregated .. like motivators of employee, financial consultant, establishing organisations in a particular field, helping the entrepreneurs, others as deemed fit..

5) Advising and questions raised by the members are diligently replied..

In all the above Cite HR is a fantastic place and beautiful to be here is a good thing ... most of the best is In the present day situation ..all other sites when interested in employee based.(1) .this cite certainly a way head of giving the right person to any organisation by its insights, a panel will drawn the chart where the recruiting agents can visit here for the right candidate, the candidate so selected can be supported at all points (2) Consultants of various categories pool together and form to segregate the right way of getting the works done/services rendered with cost effective way (3) Consultant fee can be fixed as a pool in one place (4) This is the cite can make impressions at all places ... So, the consultants of varied nature stay here for better opportunity ...

best of luck ...
24th April 2015 From India, Arcot
Wonderful suggestions have come up in this forum. At this stage, I am also fumbling with ideas.
One thing would like to suggest, if appropriate.
From the list of clients provided by the consultant, the admin can select randomly any client to verify the association and level of sophistication of the consultant's work.
regards
15th June 2015 From India, Delhi
A great discussion over this topic. Every consultancy use th edifferent strategies to grow up in their businees. some of the consultants use the services which are paid and some uses their contacts to find the best candidate for their clients. Some of the gaint job postals gives the services to access the uploaded profiles of the candidates. By paying them you ca them and refine the actaual candidates from it.
T 7A solution is a job consultancy in bangalore offer you the commendable services to explore the right job ooprtunities.
1st August 2015 From India, Ludhiana
Continuing with this discussion we need to now be more specific about the design of such a platform.

- What are the key components of a "consulting company/individual profile"? We need to divide this into "must have" (client list, reference) and "good additions" (like youtube videos) in terms of info provided by the consultant in their profile.

- Negotiation of rates based on multiple consultants quoting for the job and then weighing of cost, budget, experience of consultant. Are there any other factor which come into play? Like commission, relationship or anything else?

- Since place of operation is so crucial - as getting consultants from other cities would add to cost - should be limit application for a job to consultants based in that city?

- Should the bidding process be public where everyone can see who is quoting what?

We can showcase "word of mouth” using the appreciations received on the forums - this would also help gauge the consultant’s way of dealing with things. Should ratings be based on the appreciations received?

We would like to keep the consultant section open to all areas of consulting. And the section would be created on Cite.Co.

Promotions of listed consultants will be done throughout the network based on level of appreciations and tags where they are most prominent.

Please do share your inputs in these areas.

Regards,

Sid [CHR]
4th December 2015 From India, Gurgaon
Dear Sid,

My replies are given in italics:

- What are the key components of a "consulting company/individual profile"? We need to divide this into "must have" (client list, reference) and "good additions" (like youtube videos) in terms of info provided by the consultant in their profile.

Comment: - There are consultants of all hues like recruitment consultants, consultants who provide accounting or audit services and so on. How to present one's services if left to the consultant the better.

- Negotiation of rates based on multiple consultants quoting for the job and then weighing of cost, budget, experience of consultant. Are there any other factor which come into play? Like commission, relationship or anything else?

Comment: - Parameters of selection like cost, budget, experience of consultant is a matter between two parties. If they handle in their personal capacity the better. If we look at the newspaper, we find that tenders are published by the companies. However, newspaper just publishes the ad and nothing more. Further dealings are left between the parties.

- Since place of operation is so crucial - as getting consultants from other cities would add to cost - should be limit application for a job to consultants based in that city?

Comment: - Rather than place of operation, quality of the consulting services is crucial. Whether to select a local consultant or of national stature or international one is individual's choice. Choice depends on the client's perception, objectives of hiring the consultants etc.

- Should the bidding process be public where everyone can see who is quoting what?

Comment: - Consulting services are designing based on the requirements of client. These are "Made to Order" and cannot have "Maximum Retail Price" (MRP). Secondly, who would like to make a public disclosure on who has bidded for what amount. Which client would like to publicly disclose what is their capacity to pay?

We can showcase "word of mouth” using the appreciations received on the forums - this would also help gauge the consultant’s way of dealing with things. Should ratings be based on the appreciations received?

Comment: - Consultant might receive appreciation on the forum for which he/she might not provide service(s). Should such appreciation be included? If not, then what means do we have to segregate such appreciations? However, consultants may showcase their appreciations.

We would like to keep the consultant section open to all areas of consulting. And the section would be created on Cite.Co.

Promotions of listed consultants will be done throughout the network based on level of appreciations and tags where they are most prominent.

Comment: - Alike citehr, citesales, citeops etc, how to make consultant section is citeman's internal matter.

Final Comment: - While creating any forum, it is important to maintain neutrality. Let us take example of Google. They have created software for mobile phones called Android. However, they did not get into who uses this software for manufacturing mobile phones, who uses this software the development of Applications and who are the end users of the software. They are have just created and maintain the stability and security and that is all. How to derive benefits from Android is left to the users of various categories. Citeman can also do same thing. No need to vouch for any consultant's quality or price of the services

Thanks,

Dinesh Divekar


4th December 2015 From India, Bangalore
Dear CHR,

It is really a discussion of need, Shri Dinesh Divekar enlightened in his good spoken way, yet, I do suggest some of the things for consideration :

1) Better please create a pool where the members best or the most in their analysis/subject skills be the advisor cum consultants, and each team have members separately.

2) When you are taking members who have got appreciations let them be associated with the pool of their interest.

3) Zones need be created in between members who have association with the industry-academia relations for immediate acquaintance of the subject and the need of the business.

4) As regard fee let the members decide certainly there will be differences need be focussed for relatively better solutions.

5) In case the CHR required to be interested in fee let the members in case of interest reiterate interest be become members and they should be in the pool let it be decided the CHR either in due consultation or as the pool is interested. Let me say one example, shri Dinesh Divekar seen from his profile is the good and best advisor for many a problem yet, for all the problems the member relatively have not charged for the advise, some members who are very authentic good sound knowledge in labour laws have not seem to have charging and this is one of great things for appreciation. Let those members create a pool and membership floated for generating revenue and business exploration.

Best of luck ...
4th December 2015 From India, Arcot
Great thought , great insights . Largely to my understanding , the consulting companies create a niche for themselves based their area of expertise and industry segment they work with. Also on how best they can comprehend the needs of the client and thereby design custom made solutions for them with perfect deliverability. Icing on the cake would be if consultants, take extra effort to be a part of the implementation too.
4th December 2015 From India, Thane
Continuing with this conversation - I am currently in the process of structuring what information will be collected from the consultants and how it'll be displayed.

---------------------------------------

Independent OR Organisation

(If Organisation)

Consulting Firm Name:

Address:

City Of Operation: (Add All Applicable)

Youtube Sample Video:

Website:

---------------------------

Add Consultant (+button)

( Multiple consultants if organisation / single if independent )

Name:

One line description: (shown on posts below username)

Age:

Email (registered on cite.co):

Allow people to email you: Yes / No (will show contact form on display if yes)

Experience in years:

Speciality: Choose from tags or add new

City Of Operation: (if independent)

Industries: (choose single or multiple from drop down or "non industry specific")

Certifications: (+button)

Certification Name

People References: (+button)

Name (Company name)

Project References: (+button)

Short Project Description

Youtube Sample Video: (if available)

---------------------------

The matter collected will form a directory based on location and industry.

Link next the user's username on posts will open a box under to reveal all details about the consultant (no page refresh).

The user can then review all information and then contact the consultant or send copy of details to their own email for future reference.

Please let me know if something else should be added or something here should be removed.

Regards,

Sid [CHR]
15th June 2016 From India, Gurgaon
The more I am reviewing the content on CiteHR the more I am realizing that we need to do a lot more to build trust among users. To be seen as a place where organizations can find trustworthy consultants.
Here's an example: we are working on figuring out who all have posted their company URLS here and whether they are still active - a total of over 4000 domain links exists on CiteHR which no longer exist. We are working on removing this content and all other page links which no longer exist. If any senior member wants to talk to me about how to tackle this issue and how to make sure that TRUST is built over the years to come please private message me.
Kargaokarji, The post from learningnovo still exists and is an old post in this thread - it just got featured because it got a few appreciations.
Regards,
Sid [CHR]
2nd August 2016 From India, Gurgaon
Dear Sid,

This thread has received plenty of useful inputs.

I am glad that you have even carved out a draft format.

There was time when consultancy was thought to be a domain only for the SILVER STREAKED and SHINING MOON personalities.

Age and experience were considered as essentials in selecting a consultant.

This is no longer true in the same vein.

With scores of start ups entering the fray in various fields, the consultancy field becomes no exception.

The client's needs vary. They look for training or spreading awareness from 'fresh recruits' to "CEOs."

So accordingly the level of expertise and experience of consultants also vary.

It is not a story of " ONE SIZE" fits all.

We may consider some grading of consultants - can be self declared or as determined from their client lists and programmes.

This will leave us with a spectrum, consisting of "couple of years experienced" to ' sought after high fliers'.

Expert opinions may be solicited in determining the different grades.

One simple grading that comes to my mind is consultants who can work for ENTRY LEVEL, MIDDLE LEVEL and TOP MANAGEMENT.

Learned members, I am sure will come out with better suggestions.

V.Raghunathan
11th August 2016 From India
Great initiative...!!!

I would like to add that, these days we come across lots of Freelancers, who are operating in the areas of Recruitment, Training, Payroll, Compliance, Temp. staffing etc. I think they are the target-group who are much in need of such help. Their only access to Clients is through Personal Contacts.

There are many websites that provide a platform that enables such Professionals to find work assignments. Along with this, while providing work opportunities, they also provide an economical, faster and dedicated source which can take care of their odd, unique or small-volume requirements. Thus it is a win-win situation for all.

There has so far been no such sites, which caters exclusively to HR requirements or Business/Managerial requirements. I think CiteHR and other CiteCo sites can fulfil this need by letting freelancers, Independent Professionals, small firms get an appropriate platform to showcase their skills and competencies to solicit business.

A Home Page for members which is detailed and elaborate; can accept uploaded videos and other files, with more functionalities added, can prove to be very handy.

However, the cost-factor needs to be addressed too, while adding more functionalities and fast easier access to all features; and making the pages more attractive and appealing.

I expect more participation and brain-storming on all these aspects, from our members to whom CiteHR actually belongs to.

Warm regards.
11th August 2016 From India, Delhi
Initially we were thinking we would make this a paid feature - however building of a profile isn't charged on any professional site - so it makes sense to keep that feature free. It would be almost the same as it is now - just more ways for consultants to showcase their achievements (certificates, articles, videos, collecting testimonials from past employers) all of this should help build more trust. However to make sure that the consultant listing is fresh and the display of the extended profile on posts are valid - we will probably need to do a monthly check of if the consultant is still providing the service via an email confirmation.
Regards,
Sid
11th August 2016 From India, Gurgaon
Dear Sid,

I would like to put forth my views on essence of citehr vis-a-vis the publicity for the consultants.

Very shortly, I will complete ten years of uninterrupted association with citehr. Nevertheless, following emerges from a cursory look at the discussion at citehr:

a) Members approach citehr to seek advice or opinions. Those who are not members, they become members in order to seek advice of the seniors.

b) By and large, members raise their queries on non-payment of wages, payment PF/ESI, notice period, on spot termination etc. All these are basic issues. Therefore, through the title of the forum is "Citehr", the discussion centres around erstwhile "Personnel Management". Percentage of the threads with hardcore HR issues is minuscule.

In view of this, the real challenge of citehr is to evolve from personnel management to HR management. Rehabilitation of consultants need not be the focus of citehr. Brand recall of this forum lies in seeking advice or download HR related material that has been uploaded earlier. Members never approach citehr thinking that altruistic consultants will help them.

Though the citehr is more than decade old, what keeps the forum ticking is the contribution by dozen odd members. They are the fulcrum of this forum and not the consultants. With the risk of sounding uncharitable, may I say that many consultants use this forum just to grind their axe and nothing else. If this was not the case, then you would not have deleted publicity post by a consultant that following after your post dated 15-06-2016.

When citehr had started it was a very novel idea. Internet penetration was happening in lower/higher middle class households and these online forums came handy. That time social media was non-existent. However, the situation has changed now in a big way. There is explosion of social media. Along side WhatsApp groups are spawning. These groups are well-moderated and what knowledge sharing was happening till 5-6 years ago on citehr is happening now on these groups. Incidentally WA groups allow sharing of files of all media like .doc, .xls, .pdf etc and members take exact benefit of this. Admin in charge of few WA groups have taken cue from this forum and have started their own forums. I find that smartly they have eradicated the shortcomings of citehr and these groups are increasing their membership with galloping speed.

Dear Sid, why are you hell bent in rehabilitating those whose contribution is minuscule in the growth of this forum? Who have grown this forum? Who had added intellectual vibrancy to this forum?

Your challenge is how to increase inputs from senior HR professionals like GM or VP HR etc. Few HR Managers do write the posts but this is more to promote their blog.

Let me reiterate that rehabilitation of consultant cannot be your priority. You had written your post on 15-06-2016 (Post Sl No 16). Without understanding the logic of this thread, without understanding what the Chief Administrator wanted to say, one of the consultants had written a post to promote his business. Is this not temerity of the highest kind? Temerity apart, the post is nothing but reflection of psychology of the consultants.

Well gentleman, you have grown this forum single-handedly. Alas this has brought a challenge of sustaining the weight of this growth. By diverting your focus, there could be risk of crumbling under the weight. That is the last wish of any well-wisher of this forum!

Thanks,

Dinesh Divekar
11th August 2016 From India, Bangalore
Hi Dinesh,

Some great thought provoking points. Yes, the problem of repeated "non payment of wages" etc are an issue. And you are right that with the advent of whatsapp groups there are many HR groups that have formed. They serve well as micro communities, where a set of people collaborate to help each other and kind of satiate the need for HR oriented discussions, but there will be space for a public resource platform. We definitely need more hardcore HR issues to be discussed, but most of the seniors choose the medium of writing articles/books and asking/expecting them to reply to queries is unlikely to work. The only people who can keep the platform lively are consultants, who have the necessary expertise to comment on industrial or specific HR issues. This should also broaden the scope of the platform itself as more consultants will see this as a medium of promotion and exposure. Not through repeated posting of their profile but with proper replies on queries.

Currently we don't have much focus, this is just one step towards it and doesn't really change much in terms of the core of the community.

Regards,

Sid
11th August 2016 From India, Gurgaon
I have no idea where to go with this.

A number of things bother me about CiteHR, not the least of which is people shamelessly flogging their business and not contributing anything to the conversation. However, others have broached this subject.

And then there are the people like Topjob who answer every post saying they can provide a solution - at a price - for every problem. This guy must be a genius if he can solve every single HR problem known to man.

I think in the main people come here for "free" advice. At some point they may need to pay for external advice or help, but initially they are seeking some general help.

My other problems concern the fact that some days we move way to far away from HR. There are too many posts about how to start businesses, etc. This has nothing to do with HR. Maybe we can have a CITEStartup or something to divert all those postings to, and to get back to our core business, helping HR professsionals with HR information - or am I wrong in assuming that is what CiteHR is about?

I also wonder about the questions regarding being fired, or missing pf, or joining letters and all the other minutiae of being an employee, not a HR Practitioner. They are HR issues to be sure, but these sorts of questions I don't see as being within the scope of this site.

I have been less active on the site in recent times, not because of time. I am retired, have all the time in the world. But I am tired of the constant repetition of subjects already covered a million times over, or people in trouble, and expecting us to wave a magic wand and fix it for them.

In my view, the time has come for Sid to lay down some clear statements as to what he wants this site to be, what sort of content, what sort of users. Clearly he is seeking to move forward in a new direction. Once we know that, we can decide if it continues to meet our needs and if we want to continue to participate going forward.
12th August 2016 From Australia, Melbourne
I appreciate the ongoing discussions.

These are profound issues, and there can't be handy ready-made solutions. In spite of discussions and brain-storming, we have to understand that there can not be a perfect way; and learning by trial-and-error is imperative and un-avoidable.

Several new issues have come-up, rather, been un-earthed. Coming to Dinesh's views; I appreciate his candid opinions which are almost like a SWOT analysis. I agree with many of his observations; and I would like to add a few more to his :

Indeed, Internet has changed a lot in the last 10 years. One of the most striking aspect is the Social Media, which at one time was looked down by serious professionals and nerds, has gained ascendancy and respectability. Now it is the prime-mover on the web-space.

Another such outrageously disruptive invention was the Smart Phone and the Android. What a decade back was available, that too in a very narrow spectrum as compared to today, to only a few creamy layer of Blackberry phone users, is now available to all.

Here I agree in totality with Dinesh.

Presence on Social Media and WhatsApp has changed everything. The first point, is the Appearance, or presentation. For example, pages on FB are so user-friendly, present everything at-a-glance (for which earlier a "dashboard" functionality was required), everything opens or is visible at a click.

The second is, Ease of use. Not just the advantage of being on mobile platform, but as already said, the ease with which one can upload material in any format, makes these very handy.

The third is, more Openness, as opposed to Privacy and Anonymity. It also points to the Trust factor as well as, Friendliness. The people or participants in these new-age forums appear more accessible and real. True, there are valid reason and compulsion to remain Anonymous, at times; but what is meant is, the people on these medias appear more real and accessible.

To understand this last point, let us ask ourselves, "How many members in CiteHR, do we know personally in real life ?"

Yes, one does have hundreds of Followers, and may Follow hundreds; and may have genuine mutual appreciations with many, yet in real terms many are just entities in cyber-space. this was the norm, earlier when people chatted on Bulletin-Boards and chat-sites.

Today, one has to recognise the power of Networking, which these new alternatives are exploiting quite well. We must have a Network of real users and members, who can network with each-other off the site as well.

On this, I would like to add that several attempts were made in the past, of having get-togethers and arranging Meets in malls or public places. However, for some reason or the other, these did not turn out to be what was envisaged. In my opinion, one of the main reason was, the members were unknown among themselves, and thus could not overcome the hesitations or apprehensions that they had about others.

In an FB and WhatsApp like scenario, members would have known each other quite well and would have motivated and built on momentum for such events.

I am sorry, if at this point of time, I am not able to offer any solution or a strategy. What I am able to do is to gather my impressions on what I have experienced and observed; and the changes that have taken place since. I am proud of CiteHR, my association with CiteHR and I am confident that CiteHR will continue to remain a great resource, as it keeps evolving over time.

Just a fortnight back, someone shared on WhatsApp, a list of most important and popular HR sites. As usual CiteHR was listed in it, but what caught my attention was another website, which in the past had been spamming the pages of CiteHR in an attempt to grab eyeballs and popularity; and it has been repeatedly banned. It hardly has any content worth reading and even these are plagiarized from other websites. However, due to its presence on a social site, it has accumulated a large following. The fact that someone in social media likes a page or a site, has a lot of influence on others, as the members in social media who use their real profile, are known to others. Its a matter of Identity and Trust.

So, I whole-heartedly agree with the basic idea of promoting Consultants, as it will give "face" and Identity to those whose comments the members have read. How to go about it, is what needs to be worked upon.

On that note, I had put forth the case of Freelancers as well.

Beyond that, I would also like to promote a 'normal' HR professional, why he should not get a chance to promote himself or herself ???

These days Recruiters rely a lot on Social Media for Talent Acquisition. CiteHR is just the perfect platform for all HR Professionals.

I understand that I have covered just a limited aspect of what is being sought. I think, while thinking of "who needs CiteHR most ?" we must also appreciate and think of the needs of the "average" HR professional. A profile in CiteHR, built painstakingly over years, listing the actual contributions of that member, his influence on others and the community at large; these are all very valuable assets for HR professional.

Coming to Aussiejohn's views, I agree with them. Being my senior, he has seen more happening at CiteHR. The following are especially noteworthy :

- there are no dearth of unscrupulous element bent on exploiting the needy. I have deleted and Banned many who keep on coming with new IDs, who ask for some remittance to their bank accounts to provide solutions to every problem posted by the members.

- even if the problems posted by members is repetitive, members would not hesitate to give responses, if they know the person. As we have seen in Social Media, people do not hesitate in commenting again and again, on issues they have a clear opinion about.

I shall be back with more, as I await views and responses.

Warm regards.
12th August 2016 From India, Delhi
Respected CHR,

I have gone through this thread this Sunday and confused myself.

Person like me use this platform as a tool to share and enhance the knowledge and I feel, those who are constantly contributing to various threads may be having same object in their mind. They may not be having an intention to create business out of it.

I personally feel that proper evaluations or assessment needs to be done of the posts by contributing members.

On this forum everyone is contributing member. Even he writes / posts anything in handful of discussions / threads, he is called as a contributing member and a member with more than 2000 qualitative posts with good number of appreciations is also called as a contributing member.

I have also seen a member with odd 50 posts promoted as senior member within a span of few months and then he disappeared from the forum.

The evaluations made recently for "Most Appreciated Member" there is no logic seems to me.

If you give recognition to contributing members with proper evaluation, it will be good enough for them. Moderators should play good role in this and certain issues need to be referring to experts.

Regards,

Adv. Keshav Korgaonkar
14th August 2016 From India, Mumbai
Hello Keshavji,

You are absolutely correct in your assessment that promotion to "most appreciated member" is not regularized - we need to automate it so that senior mentors are marked automatically when they reach a certain threshold of appreciations. While CiteHR has seen steady growth - the biggest jump in usage was during a period where we had the Cbox feature (consultant box). While most current active members see this as a platform for knowledge sharing (which is the core) - I need to look at it from a "platform" point of view. To be able to create a bigger impact in the business world it needs to be equipped with many kinds of knowledge, among them would be a list of trustworthy consulting brands. I envision this to become a platform where businesses (startups/established), consultants, senior mentors are able to find structured data instead of just conversations. The conversations would be a way (for employers) to judge validity, expertise, conduct and trustworthiness. This development does not really change anything about the community at its core.

Regards,

Sid
14th August 2016 From India, Gurgaon
Dear Sid,

Introduction of platform for consultants or otherwise, the primary challenge of citehr is to improve the quality of the discussion, quality of the replies or even quality of the language of the posters. Sometimes members just upload the trash on the site. This very trash keeps seniors or high-class HR professionals at bay. Without defining the quality standards and further sticking to it, no product on earth has developed. Therefore, if citehr were to be developed, the first requirement is to define the quality and sticking to these standards diligently.

After 12 years of existence, citehr does not have even 0.1 per cent of the HR content. Other 99.9% belongs to plain non-HR or personnel management. Therefore, pertinent questions that arise are:

a) Will c-box (platform for consultants) improve the quality of discussion?

b) Will consultants attract seniors in HR like GM (HR), VP (HR) etc to citehr and if attracted, will they share actual case studies of their organisation?

c) Will introduction of consultants be able to compete with numerous HR forums that are breeding on the social media? While couple of HR forums on social media may not have significant impact on citehr, thousands of them will have surely.

d) Five years ago, social media in general, and WhatsApp in particular was absent. However, the rage is growing day by day. Will entry of consultants predict what will be the rage five years from now i.e. in 2021? Possibly at that time WhatApp may be replaced with still something advanced. How citehr will cope with that?

e) What if consultants grow at the expense of citehr? After attaining a higher destination nobody remembers a ladder that took them there. Will consultants do something similar to citehr?

Correction: - In your post No 22, you have written that "The only people who can keep the platform lively are consultants, who have the necessary expertise to comment on industrial or specific HR issues.". However, this is a grossly mistaken view. Serving GM (HR) or VP (HR) are also perfectly capable to address the queries of the junior members. However, there presence is few and far between hence you feel that consultants are only capable to address the issues.

Thanks,

Dinesh Divekar
15th August 2016 From India, Bangalore
Dear Sid,

Just above this post, you will find a post written by a labour law consultant. Without bothering what is the nature of discussion, the gentleman has uploaded his post to promote his business. However, this is not isolated case, this has been happening all along. In this very thread, this has happened for the second time. You have deleted earlier thread that was uploaded for some other consultant.

The third paragraph of your first post says that "From the beginning, we always knew that the core of this knowledge-base is going to be the knowledge that our consulting members will share". I am yet to understand the premises from which you have developed this inference. There is no iota of evidence to support your statement.

Consultants use this forum out and out for business promotion and nothing else. Beyond promoting their business, hardly they have connect with this Citehr. Notwithstanding this, you wish to rehabilitate the very section of HR community whose contributions are least in development of Citehr. It would be worth waiting for few more years to see how citehr has grown because of the consultants like the one above.

Thanks,

Dinesh Divekar
15th August 2016 From India, Bangalore
Dear Dinesh ji, I failed to understand your first para of above post # 28. Can you please elaborate which post by a Labour Consultant is of business promotion?
15th August 2016 From India, Mumbai
Hi Dinesh,

Those are the kind of consultants we don't want - unfortunately spam is an issue that requires constant vigilance and is a problem on all platforms. This is not new. And there is evidence that some of the best posts have also been posted by consultants (Rajat, Leolingham, yourself, Nashbramhal, Madhu, Learningnovo, Korgaokar, Raj, Saikumar, Umakanthan and many more) or people who were trying to get into consulting. Many have probably failed and I think the primary reason is that we haven't been able to portray them properly. Like it would be so much better if a user could just click a link and get a summary of a user's achievements and expertise. In any case this is a feature - and its not becoming the core reason for this platform. If it doesn't work - its fairly simple to roll it back.

Lets move ahead and help me understand what I could do to get you more business and if at all that is possible on this platform. There is a possibility that it just may not work - but just strutting along this path of repeated discussions is probably not what we should be aiming for. And this is just an idea - which I understand, you think, won't work out well. Your advice that trying to attract consultants would only give rise to more of spam posts - may be true, but it will also attract some good people and possibly a lot of local opportunities. And without new blood being constructively engaged on this platform - this platform won't last another 10 years.

Regards,

Sid

I've removed the spam post Dinesh mentioned in his post.
15th August 2016 From India, Gurgaon
Dear Dinesh

While having a somewhat different opinion on certain points, I agree with several issues you have pointed out. What I feel perplexed, dismayed yet at times very optimistic, is the changing nature of internet and social media; and in turn how they affect the society and social mores.

How the changing nature of social media has affected all of us in some way or the other, and how this affects CiteHR; I shall try to find a connection from what you have written; viz :

" ..... Serving GM (HR) or VP (HR) are also perfectly capable ...... . However, there presence is few and far between..."

In the last decade, this is what has changed !!!

If you recall, recall earlier such professionals, esp. seniors would shy away from revealing their real identities, or even disclose the names of companies they have been associated with.

This has changed.

In WhatsApp, which is basically a messaging service visible only to the group members, there is no such inhibitions, obviously.

What is amazing is, Facebook has made people more open, to the extent of sharing even their personal and private moments (thanks to selfie-culture); and this applies even to head-honchos.

Another astounding reality is, LinkedIn, which happens to be the premier networking site for professionals, has changed a lot in recent times; and is enabling more social-media-like features of posting articles, pics, comments, reactions etc.

Even Gmail+ features such functionalities.

In fact, almost in any websites, when one posts a comment, one's mail or social sites identity is displayed.

All sites are now relying heavily into NETWORKING Among Users.

This is one feature, that needs to be promoted and supplemented with such functionalities. This will benefit Consultants and others who need to showcase their contributions, build up associations with other users and wish to network.

Those who wish to stay anonymous or private, can continue to remain so.

Therefore, whatever the nature of CHANGE, which will only be visible after it is implemented, and I am all for Change, Learning by trial and error, is a great way of going ahead. Let us support Sid in bringing about whatever changes possible. In these times, one has to run, just to stay at one's place.

While analyzing the Threats and Weaknesses; I also find a lot Strength that has gone into the making of CiteHR. It offers not just quick and authentic solutions to day-to-day problems, but is also a ready-reference and a repository of latest knowledge, information, guidelines, practices, rules and regulations; and changing times also present a number of Opportunities.

Looking forward to more ideas and suggestions.

Warm regards.
16th August 2016 From India, Delhi
Dear Sir,
Your site is very valuable. I kindly request you flush out the data that is older than six months. As we look for a discussion some old chats are carried forward. By this way the most relevant information can be available.
In India the utilisation of consultants is limited. Most organisations go for in house talent to address their consultancy requirements. The reason being that it is difficult to sue a consultant who may walk out and use the information to a competitor. We also are great followers of do it yourself model of business.
Never the less there is an opportunity to develop this area. One of the activities that can be planned is to have local networking of consultants.
Pierson
16th August 2016 From India, Pune
This thread is bubbling with enthusiastic views from various angles. The social media has certainly taken rapid strides in the last decade providing many ways of interaction.

Yet Cite HR has its own strength. It has become the storehouse for many real life problems, solutions, expert opinions, quotes, anecdotes, debates, shared information etc. The topic wise segregation is somewhat Google like rather than facebook or whatsapp.

Many people have contributed immensely to this forum and if anyone wants information pertaining to real life cases the same can be retrieved instantaneously. I feel this aspect is a strength when compared to facebook, whatsapp or linked in.

What do the Business houses, Corporates and Institutions look for? They want to see credentials and capability in a consultant to provide the services at the best price. When the platform mooted by Sid comes into action, the corporates would have a large and segment wise data bank to browse through.

What is the interest of Consultants? To get good assignments followed by proper and timely payment.

If Cite HR as the interface can fix certain contributions to the forum as a necessary criterion to be on the live reference list, then a value chain will get established.

How will this Cite HR brand work in the long run? Well, with a longer association a consultant will make many contributions over a period of time. The prospective corporate can see the contributions and make a decision( this is apart from the claims made by the consultant themselves).

It is also possible that such information exchange can take place on a one to one level, as it is currently happening. However when it is done through Cite HR such a browsing will be private. The prospective client can sift through many a consultant’s work rather than reading a couple of pages of conventional profile of every consultant.

As I see this, Cite HR can even create a new category called something like 'Cite HR certified' for a consultant who is aspiring to make his presence conspicuous in business circles.

Cite HR in the first step, should take efforts to attract the Corporates’ attention(including start ups and educational institutions) explaining them their proposal from three dimensions of FEATURES, ADVANTAGES and BENEFITS. Send them newsletters and other relevant information. If possible convene regional meetings for half a day in metros to start with and get going.

V.Raghunathan
16th August 2016 From India
To: CiteHR
CiteHR form Members have been providing/giving/sharing their valuable knowledge which one cannot get from any book etc., I salute them for their selfless contribution for the benefit of needy members. I have been a regular reader & subscriber since 2012 (aftermy joining Steel Plant ). Now the Steel Plant is closed & I have benefited /gained more knowledge from CiteHr & other practical exp.of 35 yrs. in HR,IR,LEGAL & ADMn. works of Steel, Power, Chemical, Electronics & Mines to equip myself as a HR Consultant. I wish all Cite HR Members & their family members good luck, success & long life in all their works.
c.neyimkhan, HR Consultant
17th August 2016 From India, Mumbai
Thank you everyone for taking this discussion ahead. There are some interesting points that have been added by Raj, Pierson, Raghunathan.

First the issue of organizations not trusting consultants because of the difficulties with guidelines or legal action in case of misconduct. This is a grave concern and probably the only barrier we could create, would be to have the consultant's profile and testimonials are at stake. However, the areas where organizations use consultants mostly seem to act as bridges to help them accomplish a certain task - like training, recruitment, business services, real estate, relocation, equipment etc. We can create a useful location based list for such services to help organizations identify good people. Certifications from CiteHR would involve a lot of vetting and liability - something that can probably be developed later.

Yes, the strength of CiteHR is in its resources of very contextual material on various business issues - what we need to develop is the network and make sure the people are exposed properly for the goodwill they are creating in the business community.

The primary goal of this feature would be to help people create portals of exposure through their posts - much like blogging but in a larger platform and very contextual. The corporates do know about and use Cite resources - what we need is something more organized so they can identify resources easily. Like for example we have a member who has deep knowledge and interest in "Lateral Thinking" and does some brilliant training modules - just that one specific topic should be enough to get him a lot of business if organizations are shown his profile in a proper format to help them decide. And that will perhaps also require creation of documents which help organization map out the various things that can be done to improve and grow - and that can only be done through collaboration.

Regards,

Sid
17th August 2016 From India, Gurgaon
Emerging Companies look for consultancy services in the areas Training- providing in house & external training to employees, Compensation & Benefits - Market surveys, comparisons, scale, ratings, fixing salary component, designing salary structure, grades,etc. Reward & recognition - point based reward system, monitoring, etc. Leave management system, HR compliance like TDS, PT, PF, ESI etc, Legal counsel in case of termination, case, Performance Management Process, etc.. Employee Benefits, Tax saving components for employees & employers, Recruitment-full time, part time, consultant, etc.
17th August 2016 From India, Hyderabad
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