Ravi5554
Asst.manager -hr
Tushar.swar
Manager - Human Resource
VENKAETSH S WARAN
Senior Hr -executive
Malikjs
Gm (hr)
Sreenarayanan C
Works Manager
+7 Others

Our HR lady deducting late comings with Overtime payments
-----------------------------------
Dear HR professionals
Please explain...is there some law or can any company make it's own law to deduct money from employees Over Time.
Our HR lady deducts Late Coming from our OT.
i.e.
If someone is late for 20 mins 6 times in a month then she will deduct 120 mins from his OT HRS and then pay him / her the rest.
Is this legal ? Is it a correct ethical practice ? Is this possible to do?
Please help.
9th July 2014 From India, New Delhi
Hi,
She don't have the right to do so......
1. on coming late she can give MEMO else Show cause but she cant deduct salary or OT in the name of fine.
2, its absolutely wrong practice she is doing.
3. you do not need to pay any fine and they cant do so......
ask them under which section they are deducting your fines. tell them to provide the section,clause or any notification.
9th July 2014 From India, Mumbai
but asking this to her means coming into sight :( and that is too risky for employees
9th July 2014 From India, New Delhi
Hi, Better you can provide me the no, i will have discussion with her.
9th July 2014 From India, Mumbai
#Anonymous
i want to get a lot of people’s reply on this so that this can be shared with high bosses after some time
10th July 2014 From India, New Delhi
Dear,
It's not illegal as your are coming late as not following rules of official timing than you have to pay. but if you are not informed for the same before deduction than only you can get exemption.
10th July 2014 From India, Delhi
Hi,

go through below as per law when employer can deduct.......

Deductions from Wages allowable under the Act

Deductions from the wages of an employed person shall be made only in accordance with the

provisions of this Act, and may be of the following kinds only, namely:

108

(a) Fines: The total amount of fine which may be imposed in any one wage-period on any

employed person shall not exceed an amount equal to 3% of the wages payable to him in

respect of that wage-period. No fine shall be imposed on any employed person who is under

the age of fifteen years. Every fine shall be deemed to have been imposed on the day of the

act or omission in respect of which it was imposed. No fine imposed on any employed

person shall be recovered from him by instalments or after the expiry of 90 days from the

day on which it was imposed

(b) Deductions for absence from duty;

(c) Deductions for damage to or loss of goods expressly entrusted to the employed person

for custody, or for loss of money for which he is required to account, where such damage or

loss is directly attributable to his neglect or default;

(d) Deductions for house-accommodation supplied by the employer or by government or

any housing board set up under any law for the time being in force (whether the

government or the board is the employer or not) or any other authority engaged in the

business of subsidizing house- accommodation which may be specified in this behalf by the

State Government by notification in the Official Gazette;

(e) Deductions for such amenities and services supplied by the employer as the State

Government or any officer specified by it in this behalf may, by general or special order,

authorize.

Explanation: The word "services" in 23[this clause] does not include the supply of tools and

raw materials required for the purposes of employment;

(f) Deductions for recovery of advances of whatever nature (including advances for traveling

allowance or conveyance allowance), and the interest due in respect thereof, or for

adjustment of over-payments of wages. Recovery of an advance of money given before

employment began shall be made from the first payment of wages in respect of a complete

wage-period, but no recovery shall be made of such advances given for traveling-expenses.

(ff) deductions for recovery of loans made from any fund constituted for the welfare of

labour in accordance with the rules approved by the State Government, and the interest due

in respect thereof;

(fff) deductions for recovery of loans granted for house-building or other purposes approved

by the State Government and the interest due in respect thereof;]

(g) Deductions of income-tax payable by the employed person;

(h) Deductions required to be made by order of a court or other authority competent to

make such order;

109

(i) Deductions for subscriptions to, and for repayment of advances from any provident fund

to which the Provident Funds Act, 1925 (19 of 1925), applies or any recognized provident

fund as defined or any provident fund approved in this behalf by the State Government,

during the continuance of such approval;

(j) deductions for payments to co-operative societies approved by the State Government or

any officer specified by it in this behalf or to a scheme of insurance maintained by the Indian

Post Office, and

(k) deductions, made with the written authorization of the person employed for payment of

any premium on his life insurance policy to the Life Insurance Corporation Act of India

established under the Life Insurance Corporation Act, 1956 (31 of 1956), or for the purchase

of securities of the Government of India or of any State Government or for being deposited

in any Post Office Savings Bank in furtherance of any savings scheme of any such

government.]]

(kk) deductions, made with the written authorization of the employed person, for the

payment of his contribution to any fund constituted by the employer or a trade union

registered under the Trade Union Act, 1926 (16 of 1926), for the welfare of the employed

persons or the members of their families, or both, and approved by the State Government

or any officer specified by it in this behalf, during the continuance of such approval;

(kkk) deductions, made with the written authorization of the employed person, for payment

of the fees payable by him for the membership of any trade union registered under the

Trade Union Act, 1926 (16 of 1926);

(l) Deductions, for payment of insurance premium on Fidelity Guarantee Bonds;

(m) Deductions for recovery of losses sustained by a railway administration on account of

acceptance by the employed person of counterfeit or base coins or mutilated or forged

currency notes;

(n) Deductions for recovery of losses sustained by a railway administration on account of the

failure of the employed person to invoice, to bill, to collect or to account for the appropriate

charges due to that administration whether in respect of fares, freight, demurrage, wharfage

and carnage or in respect of sale of food in catering establishments or in respect of sale of

commodities in grain shops or otherwise;

(o) Deductions for recovery of losses sustained by a railway administration on account of any

rebates or refunds incorrectly granted by the employed person where such loss is directly

attributable to his neglect or default;]

110

(p) Deductions, made with the written authorization of the employed person, for

contribution to the Prime Minister’s National Relief Fund or to such other Fund as the

Central Government may, by notification in the Official Gazette, specify;]

(q) Deductions for contributions to any insurance scheme framed by the Central

Government for the benefit of its employees.

The total amount of deductions which may be made above in any wage-period from the

wages of any employed person shall not exceed-

(i) in cases where such deductions are wholly or partly made for payments to co-operative

societies under clause (j) above, 75% of such wages, and

(ii) in any other case, 50% of such wages:

Where the total deductions authorized exceed 75% or, as the case may be, 50% of the

wages, the excess may be recovered in such manner as may be prescribed.
10th July 2014 From India, Mumbai
Dear Varun
Suppose Mr. XYZ is late 3 times in March month and then he is not late in April & May. In May he is doing 3 Hrs overtime...then while making his salary for May month if March month's late deduction will be adjusted from his/her salary then tell is this a correct thing.
--------
I understand coming late is a kinda not following rule...but this should be judged on following points:
is this a regular habit of that person
is it natural to get late 2 or 3 times for 5 - 10 mins due to traffic reasons.
or is this simply not following the rules of company.
...
I hope it's clear to you now.
Regards...

10th July 2014 From India, New Delhi
Dear,
Being an employer they define the working hours and if you are working extra than specified working hours you are eligible for overtime same if you are getting late than they have right to deduct salary and if you are talking about reason behind late coming may be valid as per employee but for being as employer you have to make a general rule where you cann't define that particular employee is right and other were not.
One more thing this is wrong to adjust late coming after that particular month.
I hope you understand the thing by thinking from employer side also.
10th July 2014 From India, Delhi
Dear Varun
I think that adjusting 3 - 5 late comings with a half day leave is a general practice. but adjusting it from the OT is not correct.
What do you think about this ???
-----------------------

11th July 2014 From India, New Delhi
There are no laws allowing \"late arrival\" to be deducted from Overtime.
11th July 2014 From India, Bangalore
Hi
For these kind of deductions to be informed by the employer at the time of joining or to be mentioned in the handbook, or if there is any policy invented in between, the same to be circulated among all the employees before making any deductions.
Every company has its own policies. Suppose three lates in one month will be considered as half day leave in one organisation. the same will be considered as LOP in another organisation.
Regards
Radhika
11th July 2014 From India, Hyderabad
Dear FRIEND,
I do not about law , but I Think she is doing right , because if she mentioned half day for your late coming , then this amount is too much more then as compare to you overtime amount .
eg: if you have 20 minute late and this will happen in 6 times in a months ,it means your total half day is 6 in a month or 3 leaves in a month or 240 hours . and according to your words she will deduct only 120 hours . and dear sorry i m also not aware from law , but after your discussion i am also study on this topic .
11th July 2014 From India
Hi,
Anju
Fine should not be collected from overtime, if she want to punish them then she can issue memo otherwise show cause, after 3 memo she can take decision legally, company should be legally strong.
Deducting money for late mark that is not good......if he is repeating she can warn after that she can take decision to terminate.
for example if one employee will come late and he knows for late i will be fine that will not effect and other employees also will think the same, so better take action immediately ( like...Termination , Suspend) then others will be follow your company policies......
12th July 2014 From India, Mumbai
Your HR is correct.
When you are working extra, they will be paying OT.
Likewise, when you are coming late, the amount can be deducted as per the company policy. One should be punctual to duty. You are deviating the rules.
16th July 2014 From India, Hyderabad
Dear All
if someone is late by 20 minutes or 2hours at 6 occasions or number of occasions than as per the payment of wages act 1936 ,section 8b ,it is absent from duty and accordingly this absence can be deducted from wages.
However it can not be deducted from overtime or it can not be adjusted from overtime
16th July 2014 From India, Delhi
Dear sir, I would like to inform you that, why not employees are not follow company rules & why coming late as regular practice? Thanks & Regards Bijay
16th July 2014 From Philippines, San Pablo City
Dear all
Please do not mention Lady Hr , it indicate the What is going on the their , As per what they agreed in Standing order then Can Deduct the salary , In my Point of View , IF x Person daily Late means it is Notable one ," we are they HR we Know the Importance Production and More Over Manpower .
What Ever May be We should Follow the Rules ..
16th July 2014 From India, Chennai
I think that if he is not a regular latecomer Hr can adjust it. In our organization if you have 3 late marks(more than 1 hour and without notice) we deduct a maximum half day salary but after doing a personal meeting with him/her. But whether if it's target oriented job section we don't deduct it if he/she achieves atleast his/her salary.
17th July 2014 From India, Kolkata
The management reserves the right to treat the employee as absent with consequent deductions of salary as per the provisions of the payment of wages Act 1936 under section 9. It can be suggested to change the present Attendance policy. A grace period of 15 minutes is usually acceptable (This cannot be presumed as a matter of right). After that for every three late marking, a half day may be deducted. For further reference, refer section 9 of Wages Act 1936.
21st July 2014 From India, Mumbai
Dear All,
Deduction of late mark as it penalization.. which company has reserved rights as like appraised by good work in term of ethically.
Secondly, they can deduction the same amount from salary not from Over time, subject to same information should be intimated to employees & employees should also agree with the same before deduction.
21st July 2014 From India, Mumbai
Dear All,

Accepted the fact that it is not only appropriate on ethics as well as illegal to deduct Late Coming from Over Time.

Here, two points needs to be clarified.

1. As per the payment of wages act 1936, company reserves the right for the deduction in case an absent is marked for the employees being absent. I firmly have the belief that there might be so called leniency for some duration for late coming on certain occasions as per HR Policy. The Question then is that why the employee is not informed of such policies? If he is informed then why he is not taking precautions.If the example mentioned is true then 6 Days Late Coming is not acceptable.

2. Is the employee even after coming late completing his total working hour for that day? If it is true then the deduction should not be there. He has already completed his quota of work. As such again the conflicting policy of 48 hrs. of work in a week gets applied. 10 hr a day or 7 hr a day. Total should not exceed 48 hrs.

Final verdict is that this all depends again on the policies of the organization. Where it is incorrect to deduct late coming from over time wages, it is also not ethical to take leverage and come late more frequently.

Regards,

Dr. Urjit Kavi
22nd July 2014 From India, Delhi
As per laws no such kind of deduction is permissible, but sit in place of that HR Executive, HR Deptt plans the manpower required in the company well in time and place,,if any employee comes late in the factory there is loss of man power and production level as well. Loss of any kind to company falls under deduction. As a principle of natural justice, if any employee remain absent from his duties without any intimation it proves that the employee is not bothering the rules and regulations framed under company standing orders and in this situation deduction of time is fair as per my views.
24th July 2014 From India, Delhi
Dear, You may have to first check what is mentioned in the HR Manual of the Company. Late coming deduction is every where but adjusting that in OT is new for us.
Kindly check your Manual first pertaining to Time Keeping Rules.
Thanks
26th July 2014 From India, Pune
Add Reply Start A New Discussion

Cite.Co - is a repository of information created by your industry peers and experienced seniors. Register Here and help by adding your inputs to this topic/query page.
Prime Sponsor: TALENTEDGE - Certification Courses for career growth from top institutes like IIM / XLRI direct to device (online digital learning)





About Us Advertise Contact Us
Privacy Policy Disclaimer Terms Of Service



All rights reserved @ 2019 Cite.Co™