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Thread Started by #gaurav2090

Hi all, I was working with a company .they organised a party and inside the party there was arrangement of hard drinks.now the thing is that after completing the party when i was boarding for my cab. Then suddenly i had an argument with a guy whom i don't know as i was drunk i was quite loud during the argument than one of my friend told me that he is also from our company and belongs to transport department than i realised my mistake and i apologised for the same.

But that guy complained regarding this argument to his HOD and they just terminated me from the organisation without asking me anything about the matter.that guy was approximately seven year old in that company and i was just 4 months old and my probation period was of 6 months...so please guide me regarding this thing can i file any complaint against that organisation
28th January 2014 From India, New Delhi
Your issue can be viewed from two angle. One is behavioural and other is legal.
legally, since you were under probation, company generally has a right to discharge the employee during this period. You have no ground to contest this termination.
Second is behavioral. you can discuss with your seniors and explain the circumstances under which you had altercation with other.Also can apologise and emphasise that you had no intention to do so. But one learning can be drawn from your incident that one has to control his behaviour in such parties and should not consume any thing beyond limit.
regds
28th January 2014 From India, Delhi
My only comment will be : What action you might have taken in case you are on the same foots. You cannot justify your action.
28th January 2014 From India, Nagari
Actually my senior doesnt entertain me.i tried to contact them but they havent listened a single thing.they just refused to talk in this topic.i havent given a chanve to speak.is this fair?
28th January 2014 From India, New Delhi
You have not mentioned the hierarchy of the other person to whom you had altercation, this case can be treated as misconduct. During the party you were alcoholic and lose your control to maintain the decorum and respect to your seniors/peers. Since you were indiscipline they have taken a disciplinary action. The other guy on the contrary has complained to his HOD, before you complained/reacted to the arguments. Even you were not knowing who the other person was which indirectly states you were not in control due to alcoholism. Please correct me if I am wrong.
28th January 2014 From India, Ahmadabad
Sir,

this to inform you that yes i was alcoholic at that time.but it doesn't mean i had drunk that much that i was not in my senses.i was totally under my control.let me explain the scenario in detail.one of my friend was not in his senses which means he is not able to stand properly so we decided to keep my friend on park until our cab arrives.when cab arrived our driver refused to open the gate as my friend was puking.than i had a small argument with cab driver than he called a guy from admin/transport department than he also refused which made me out of control and i started argument with the transport guy.Now that transport guy was working there from past 7 years.but as i was new in the organisation so i haven't seen him before that is why i told this thing that i don't know who was the person.but when my third friend introduced me that he was from transport dept.than i cooled down and i apologies from that same guy who belongs to transport.But he complained to his HOD.and they just terminated me without asking or entertaining me.they even doesn't gave me a second chance
28th January 2014 From India, New Delhi
My dear friend when your friend was vomiting it is obvious that the driver wont allow him to travel in the cab, since who will wash the vomit of your friend. So to avoid it he refused, again the driver with due respect to you being a senior person called his senior from his department i.e. admin/transport department personnel to sort out the matter. The admin/transport personnel also refused so you lose your control/temper and started altercation/arguments which entered into a heated arguments (i.e. arguments in loud voice) wherein the transport/admin personnel got annoyed and thereafter complained to the HOD of your misconduct to your colleague, the HR/Management with due consent to you HOD must have terminated you, without assigning any reason (Please clarify if reason of termination is mentioned). This is my assumption from the one side of the story of yours.

Please refer the termination clause of your appointment, and clarify the termination during probation to guide you further. Normally during probation an employee can be terminated without assigning any reason whatsoever, but if it was after confirmation then they could have not terminated you without probing/domestic enquiry.
28th January 2014 From India, Ahmadabad
Whatever has happened, please remember, never overdo anything in life. Moderation is the key to success. Corporate or Business etiquette calls for refraining from taking liquor in official parties and if at all you are forced to take, take just a glass, if unavoidable. Our tendancy is to drown ourselves in anything, if it is for free. This should be a lesson for your future. The moment the drinks reaches your head, you lose your self-control. Just see where have you landed. You can try to seek an appointment with your HOD or CEO, apologise for your behaviour. Just refrain from drinks henceforth.
28th January 2014 From India
Dear Rahul,
My friend, from both the angle behavioural and legal, your act towards your senior fellow staff was indeed not acceptable though it was happened unknowingly from your side, but brother your organisation seems a fair policy towards their senior staff and about the image of organisation. Your legal battle should not suppress your emotional misconduct.
Please take care in the future.
29th January 2014 From India, Kolkata
Dear Rahul,
Kindly refer the clause of Termination of services in your appointment letter. Your company would have considered this termination under the clause of gross misconduct which covers even if you are at official party (i.e, outside the company for official purposes), it is expected for all employees to maintain the conduct as one would have maintained in the company premises.
Though the act was not right, however looking at the situation the condition does not seem that severe to invoke termination.
29th January 2014 From India, Delhi
Hi,

Gaurav,

What I am saying listen to me with patience, this will solve your problem:

If your employer does not wish to keep you, you cant make your career over there, even if you are legally correct or win legal battle. But, from your case its not totally your fault (entire 100%), but you can make your company to reconsider the decision & make them apologize . Only you have to be diplomatic, cool & need a lawyer.

1. Check you exit documents, and see what is the Cause of Termination?

2. If it is due to 'disciplinary Action taken against you', you can challenge the company & there will be high chance of win a legal battle.

3. If answer of your separation / termination is not mentioned, contact a Lawyer and sent a mail with query Under RTI Act, your reason of termination or separation.

4. 99.9% Chance will be ' disciplinary ground'.

5. Sent an e-mail, first to HR Department, why domestic enquiry has not taken place, why one sided decision taken? You have to sent 3 mail, if your company don't answer(High Chance will be there). On third letter, mention that you are going to take legal action.

6. You have to mention that, you haven't came to party after consuming Alcohol. Alcoholic Drinks were arranged by the company. If you have some Picture of Party, it will form a strong evidence. If Peers, seniors seems to consume alcohol in the party. If it is arranged in any hotel, restaurant, Disco, before taking any action against company, try to get Invoice of Party showing, company paying for alcohol. Try to arrange it diplomatically.

7. If you get any of the evidence I mention in point 6, in the e-mail, describe the Incident & ask company why they have not taken measure for security, when Alcoholic Drinks were there in the party? Ask, them don't they know that people not live in their conscious after having Alcoholic drinks? If they care so much for discipline , why they are encouraging indiscipline, when thy know that people get out of control after getting Intoxicated by alcohol?

8. Ask them is it not a fact, that they have encouraged you indirectly because alcoholic drinks were arranged from their end? Attach the evidences in the mail. And Claim that, since you were Intoxicated, & drinks were arranged by Company, Transport guy, encouraged you to get excited & also claim that, company is doing this (Your termination), purposefully & a part of conspiracy, else why not internal investigation happened? Even magistrate cant provide one sided decision without giving chance both the parties, to speak their version. This is partiality, Illegal & one sided decision taken.

9. Ask to reconsider the decision or clear your record of service, with official apologies letter, else my lawyer will ask this questions in court . Let them clarify their stands, what they wish.

10. Incase of no reply (all 3 e-mails & letters), you can Opt for Company's answer or stand by RTI. Based on answer , you can take legal action.

If any termination occur due to 'disciplinary ground specifically', be it probationary period or not, all individual have right for natural justice or can apply to court for Justice. If employee goes to court, 1st order Magistrate provide is ' Domestic enquiry Report', so as to judge whether natural justice has taken place for termination on disciplinary ground or not. Else Victim can claim that termination was Pre-planned & a conspiracy, by employer & natural justice has not taken place.

Still for more advise, you can consult a Lawyer, I hope he/she will say the same.

Thanks & Regards

Sovik B.

MBA- HR & Finance.

Managing Director

S.S ENTERPRISE.
29th January 2014 From India, Mumbai

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Dear Mr. Sovik B It would be pleasure if you could let us know, under which section of RTI Act we can seek the reason for termination of an employee of any Pvt. Company.
29th January 2014 From India, Ahmadabad
Hi,
Adding those you show that, ' your Probationary Period' is a limitation', don't listen to them. It will add an advantage to you, because your claim of one sided decision/ conspiracy, will be strengthened . Company have to prove & justify them in court whether they follow hire & fire policy or not. And since you are new to organization, whether conspiracy, partiality/ politics involved, a FAVOUR TO A SENIOR EMPLOYEE, JUST TO SATISFY HIS DEMANDS/EGO.
Either way its a benefit for you. Be Smart, Confident, diplomatic, & go by laws. You don't need to fear anyone.
Thanks & Regards
Sovik B
MBA- HR & Finance
B.sc Mathematics Honours, Ramakriskna Mission VC College, Rahara,
Under- University Of Calcutta
Managing Director
S.S ENTERPRISE
29th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Hi
Saji,
I can answer the question, right away. But I will request you to do a research in this part. I am just trying to help a poor guy, right? I am not paid here for consultation but I have to pay my Lawyers/ Law firm for consultation. Please don't consider me rude, I am just diplomatic, with you.
But still FYI, I would like to add a point, if query for reason of termination is made under RTI, if it is not mentioned in Termination Letter . Company will have to provide the same as cant claim information confidential under Trade Secret Exclusion. Hope, you understand, what I mean to say.
Thanks & Regards
Sovik B
MBA- HR & Finance
B.sc Mathematics Honours, Ramakriskna Mission VC College, Rahara,
Under- University Of Calcutta
Managing Director
S.S ENTERPRISE
29th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Dear Mr. Sovik
I have searched the RTI Act 2005, wherein I found that Right to Information Act 2005 mandates timely response to citizen requests for government information and not for any Private Company/Institutes/Organization information, that's why I clarified from your end.
29th January 2014 From India, Ahmadabad
Hi
Saji,
You are correct. But here I would like to mention something, your knowledge is 100% correct. You might be not aware of all terms & clause, modification made in RTI guidelines during 2007-2011.
Please refer the following link carefully, here you must have a clear conception for what comes under 'TRADE SECRET EXCLUSION' & direct/ indirect funding meanings. Post Reading this kindly mention your questions, and I would like to share a classic judgment made by Delhi High Court. Will also provide details of the same.
Link:
Right to Information
Thanks & Regards
Sovik B
29th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Please Ignore my last comment, correct comment is this one:
Hi
Saji,
You are correct. But here I would like to mention something, your knowledge is NOT 100% correct. You might be not aware of all terms & clause, modification made in RTI guidelines during 2007-2011.
Please refer the following link carefully, here you must have a clear conception for what comes under 'TRADE SECRET EXCLUSION' & direct/ indirect funding meanings. Post Reading this kindly mention your questions, and I would like to share a classic judgment made by Delhi High Court. Will also provide details of the same.
Link:
Right to Information
Regards
Sovik B
29th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Dear Mr. Sovik

Thank You very much for guiding me, I have referred the link, wherein I found few clause which is as under :

"Sub clause d(i) and (ii) together mean any non-government organizations which are substantially owned, controlled or financed directly or indirectly by the government would be covered. Thus aided schools and colleges are public authorities, as also any trusts or NGOs which have significant government nominees; or companies where the government either owns substantial stake, or has given substantial finance, are directly covered under the RTI Act. The substantial finance can take into account tax incentives, subsidies and other concessions as well.

"Applicants have every right to seek information on a private company even though it is in the private sector, if it reports to a government body,"

Only applications that served public interest would be dealt with, not those that sought to erode a company's competitive position,

From the above clauses I feel none of the clause states that a RTI can be sought for the reason of termination of any individual i.e. an employee as per my view, which may be incorrect, please guide us
29th January 2014 From India, Ahmadabad
Hi,

Saji,

That's really a good question. At least you accepted that RTI holds good for Private Companies moved from previous stand that under RTI Private companies are extempted. Now, your question whether an employee can ask for Reason of Termination, Under RTI, that's a different question.

Anyway still my answer is 'Yes'. But we have to follow a Indirect Path. Before answering the question, I must understand your conception first & know your mentality, regard handling employee grievance & Corporate Stands that Corporate House takes to save them when challenged Legally from different sources- including Government Agencies.

Please answer the following question very carefully:

1. As an HR , do you consider yourself as advocate of employees? (My stand is Yes, I try for diplomatic negotiation-Understanding, Win-Win Resolution)

2. What do you think can, ministry of Corporate Affairs , Ministry of Labour & employment can go for intervention in case of Private Companies formed under Companies Act, 1956 (with all amendments made) if required? Do you think all Private companies report to them indirectly? (do not limit your answers based on this particular case only).

3. ' Hire & Fire Policy', 'Social Discrimination', 'Harassment', not following corporate laws, comes under which Category, Personal Interest or Public Interest?

4. How Labour Tribunal can opt for intervention in case of Private Companies?

1st answer these question, then I will answer, your question. Perhaps will make you again to agree with me that its possible on Legal Ground.

Thanks & Regards

Sovik B

3.
29th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Hi,?
Saji,
One more question, is there:
Q. You have said ' Only applications that served public interest would be dealt with, not those that sought to erode a company's competitive position', does 'Reason Of Termination' can erode company's competitive position? Does is come under, ' Trade Secret'?
Regards
Sovik B
29th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Dear Mr. Sovik
I don't want to prolong on with this thread
From legal angle a lawyer can argue in many ways where the hearing takes its own due course of time, here the employee has to judge, Will (s)he will wait till the judgment comes. Wherein the employee has to devote his/her time/money running to courts and lawyers. Practically the employee spoils his/her career just to receive an apology or a meager amount or reinstate his job. This all can be done if the amount is huge and the employee has enough time and money for survival. That's why a HR/forum always give a fair view/advice to the employees, nobody can stop anyone to go legal, but if a fair view/advice is sought it is given assuming the querist as a middle class employee and if any issues are sorted out amicably across the table by the reply to the queries raised
By any mean it was not to underestimate your knowledge/experience, but to gain further knowledge which will helpful to others in the forum.
29th January 2014 From India, Ahmadabad
Hi,

Saji,

I am not a lawyer, but I had spent a lot of time with senior HR leaders (Including DGM,GM, VP) from different corporate house which include many fortune 500 companies. I spent a lot of time say something around 15-18 hours a day to understand pros & cons of Human Resource Management. This is not only limited to India but also USA, Canada & UK.

My dear friend, Saji, I am not against you or HR's. I respect you & your questions. I am forwarding my hands of friendship towards you, its upto you now, whether you will accept my friendship or not . You can contact me at +91-8130901897 & Sovikbhattacharjee7@ gmail.com, for any sort of professional discussion.

If I say, I know everything under sun, then I would be the biggest lier. Only difference between you & me is, I prefer to keep crystal clear conception. I learn every day.

You, know the most bitter fact of HR Domain in INDIA, almost more then 60% in entry level possess conception problems basically due to poor mentor/Institution/ Teachers. HR seems a very easy subject, with minimum requirement of learning.

FYI, to solve this particular problem, one don't need to spent a huge amount of money. Max 5k-6k, if employee hire the professionals with best competency to deal with such cases. No, need to attend court & all. Judicial Depart will be involved, but chances go for trial will only 10%-20%. Some government departments will be involved. They must be involved, so that Trials can be avoided & they the requirement is fulfilled.

If I share the way, you will say 'Is it so simple?', I can bet you that. Simple procedures needs to be followed, tactfully & in a particular sequence. Only guidance from someone experienced is required, someone really knowledgeable genuinely.

The day you will gain a passion for HR, & will consider yourself as advocate of employees, you will also come to know all pros & cons, all minute details. But for these, you must spend maximum time with senior HR's , read a lot of books, attend different seminars, especially those which are arranged by different chamber of commerce.

For every problem, a solution is there. One is expensive & other is inexpensive. Only Knowledge & competencies matters, my friend Saji.

Hope you will accept my friendship.

Thanks & Regards

Sovik B
29th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Hi,

To all my HR Friends,

Its a humble request to you all, if you all face such similar issues, before taking any decision please go for a domestic enquiry. Then take decision after considering all pros & cons.

If hasty decision is taken/made & if employee (VICTIM) is cunning, aggressive, bold ,mischievous & fearless, they can cause a severe damage to the corporate house. Even, can made various government agencies to go for intervention, investigation , penalty & employee himself/herself can ask for a heavy compensation, on legal ground. It will be very difficult to defend corporate house under such situation, even brand name of corporate house, internal policies or network of senior professionals cant save the company!

Generally during HR AUDITS, such errors are considered as FATAL ERROR. Even Legal Support will not be there for the company to defend, that's why before taking any action, all good HR's think 10times whether the action is legally correct or not!

I am an Introvert, don't like to speak a lot & always remain busy with constructive works, still shared my view in the best possible ways. Rest you all decide.

Thanks & Regards

Sovik B

MBA-HR & Finance

B.Sc Mathematics Hons, Ramakrishna Mission VC College, Rahara.

Under University Of Calcutta.

Managing Director

S.S ENTERPRISE.
29th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
RTI Act does not apply to private company in the usual connotation of the term. but if a company is floated by any govt body or a PSU or joint ventures of (like NTPC BHEL Power Pvt Ltd) PSUs as a private entity, it will come under the ambit of RTI Act, because it will be termed as substantially funded by govt.
Also, RTI provides for supply of only pre-existing information. it does not provide for answering the why question or reasons for any action taken by the public entity. going by the original question, it seems the individual was terminated by purely a private company, there is no option available to challenge the action. any case will not sustain or no meaningful purpose will be served.
29th January 2014 From India, Bangalore
Hi,

VK Sajan,

RTI ACT CLEARLY STATE that PVT Companies are not extempted :

"Applicants have every right to seek information on a private company even though it is in the private sector, if it reports to a government body,"Only applications that served public interest would be dealt with, not those that sought to erode a company's competitive position.

Now, information regarding termination, cant be claimed as a ' TRADE SECRET', that can erode company's competitive position. Please note this point.

All companies formed under Companies ACT 1956, indirectly report to Ministry of Corporate Affairs, Ministry of Labor & employment, and government agencies like SEBI. Their Roles comes into play when discrepancies arise in term of laws. Legally, if any private company are free from not to report/answer any of the government agencies, like SEBI, Ministry Of Corporate Affairs, Ministry of Labor & employment, they can do whatever they wish & such organization (SEBI, Ministry of Corporate affairs etc), shall never have right to opt for intervention in case of discrepancies happens.

Similarly RTI can be used, but indirectly:

For example, say any stock broker/Equity Traders have a valid doubt based on evidence that any PVT company is applying illegal methods to increase its stock value in the market, Stock Broker/ Equity Trader, can ask for information via RTI through SEBI about company's affairs details. Stockbroker will ask SEBI, for more detailed information about a company's details as well as will inform SEBI that a forgery might be taking place based on evidence. Now, its SEBI's responsibility, to investigate, monitor that company's affairs, pros & cons, & provide a suitable answer to the broker, in such a way so that companies competitive position is not eroded . In Case SEBI, finds any discrepancies during investigation, SEBI possess all rights to go for an intervention in PVT company's affairs to protect the right Equity traders. Further, under such situation, Ministry of Corporate affairs, posses all rights for intervention, in PVT Company's affairs to safeguard the rights, of all kinds of partners associated with that PVT company.

Similarly, for termination of employees, labor laws associated with termination, must be followed. Labor laws for termination, clearly state that for Termination following Criteria Must be met:

1. Reason of Termination.

2. In case of employee completing 3 months continuous service, minimum 1 month’s written notice/ payment in lieu thereof is required by either side, as the case may be. (Notice of Dismissal- Sec 30)

3. Wages to be paid before the expiry of 2nd working day after the day on which employment is terminated . (Termination by or on behalf of the employer Sec. 19-5) .

In case of Unfair termination, as stated in Labor laws (PFA of Labor Laws modified after 2003), an employee possess all rights to appeal for Justice to Labor commission. Even can opt for Labor Tribunal.

In this case, a complain needs to be lodged in labor commission if ' Reason of Termination', is not specified/mentioned. And Under RTI act, employee can ask company through Labor commission/labor tribunal, to state reason of termination, if not provided by the company which is a valid demand on behalf of employee as per labor laws. As per labor laws, if it is considered unfair termination (Illegal), if reason of termination is not specified. Labor commission/labor tribunal, including Ministry of Labor & employment possess full right to investigate, & opt for intervention in affairs of private companies if satisfying reason for termination is not provided by the company.

Since, Industrial Dispute Act, domestic enquiry, has not been made before termination of gaurav, labor laws are not satisfied. In the attachment kindly read those sections which clearly state that under which criteria, termination is considered Illegal.

Once you understand this, will provide you details how, Ministry of Corporate affairs get involved in this case.

Regards

Sovik B
30th January 2014 From India, Mumbai

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Hi,

ALL,

Please don't remain in Illusion that a PVT company can do whatever they wish, no one can anything & they don't report to anyone. HR's/CEO/MD's don't possess supreme authority to ruin the career/life of any employee, stakeholders etc by doing whatever they wish. If that was the case, irrespective of laws, companies may use to Opt for bonded labor, child labor, chit fund forgery for PROFIT MAXIMIZATION. But this don't happen in practical life right, as monitoring bodies are there, Like SEBI, IT Dept, Sales Tax dept, Labor commission, labor tribunal, ILO,RBI etc. Else companies like Satyam Computers / Sharada Group would have been able to do what ever they wish.

All PVT companies formed under Company's Act 1956 (Including all amendments), report indirectly to Ministry of Corporate Affairs, Ministry of Labor & employment, Government agencies like Income Tax Dept, SEBI, RBI, Sales Tax Dept, Labor commission etc. It can be viewed as companies are liable to follow all laws of land, corporate laws, labor laws, guidelines issued by the above agencies time to time. By following laws, regulation companies are reporting to these institutions that all their actions are appropriate & legal. The moment violation of laws, guidelines happens, all these institution posses rights to investigate, monitor & go for intervention in companies affairs if required. All Companies are bound to answer these agencies, if question is valid & legal.

If these was not the case, a company might be able to hide its Income & would be able to pay 1/4 of its Taxes then it should pay ideally. And all this agencies (Concerned one), might sit idle in their chairs & use to watch everything, silently because they don't have power to do anything, companies don't report to them, so why companies should be liable to follow their policies, guidelines issued time to time. Does this happens?

For Reason of Termination- must be a valid one, which is a mandate criteria according to Labor Laws, all companies are liable to follow, else labor commission, labor tribunal, Ministry of Labor & employment posses full rights & authority to investigate, question & go for intervention in affairs of private companies if required. That's why, labor law clearly state that, if Termination is illegal, employee possess right to apply for justice to labor commission/labor tribunal. along with Judicial Department.

In this particular case, first a complain needs to be lodged stating that Reason of Termination is not specified as per labor Laws. Post that (after a suitable span of time), Under RTI, employee have to ask, labor commission, that I have filed a complain that my termination has been made without satisfying basic requirement of Termination Under labor laws. What action are they have taken to recover information, from the company? And if Company has replied, what is the Reason of termination, they specified. It is sole responsibility of labor commission to get details from the company, if required investigate & opt for intervention. And they posses this authority, since labor laws has not been met. Also it is their responsibility to provide information to employee about, reason of termination specified by company.

More over an employee can be terminated, if proven misconduct happens from employee's end. So, domestic enquiry is must.

Thanks & Regards

Sovik B

MBA -HR & FINANCE

B.Sc Mathematics Honours,Ramakrishna Mission VC College, Rahara.

Under Universtity Of Calcutta

Managing Director

S.S ENTERPRISE
30th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
There are two things that, Company should not arrange such parties inside the premises and you try to avoid to have hard drinks also.
30th January 2014 From Kuwait
Hi

RMSM,

I agree with you. Have you read the story narrated by Mahatma Gandhi, ' Imitating an English gentleman'. Today, when we are globally connected, global trades are taking place & we are following western culture, someone who follows it should not follow/imitate it blindly. According to my view, good points/features should be taken from any culture, even western culture but not their dark sides.

I don't know, what specialty alcohol brings in a party? If companies are arranging alcoholic drinks, they should know that people lose their senses after getting intoxicated, they cant get rid from their morale responsibilities of employee security & maintaining discipline! It should be their morale responsibility to drop the employees safely home.

If indiciplinary incidents took place, by no means of law, they can defend them, that they are not encouraging or provocating indiciplinary activities, if they claim its a official get together. They can claim that its a informal get together (only company is sponsoring it ), to save them, but if it is so then, employer have no legal rights to take action against any employees based on internal policies, corporate laws, labor laws. During such incidents they have to consider their employees as public & not employees. This happens maximum of times because corporate house especially MNCs & fortune 500 companies don't wish to lose their reputation due to such incidents & their hands are legally tied! Exception is Gaurav's case. Where corporate house cant defend them at all, no scope!

You know something, if any employee comes to office intoxicated, I just ask them, what specialty is there? It seems you don't want this job, right?Why don't you resign officially, no one is holding you? That's much better then a termination. If you really wish to drink, then go to a bar, or drink at your house, no one will question you, dear! I say this straight forward.

Regards

Sovik B
30th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
hi
dear this is unfortunate incident with you. 1st things is you were under probation period 2nd is that any closes in your Appoint letter regarding this Your termination legally, company generally has a right to discharge the employee during this period. You have no ground to contest this termination.
pankaj bhanuse (Nagpur).
30th January 2014 From India, Nagpur
Hi,

Pankaj,

I have one question to you, can any employer terminate an employee during probation period due to employer's fault & not employees?

If Termination, was due to poor performance, then employer has right to terminate during probation period. Anyway, even during probation period, in order to terminate an employee, reason of termination have to be mentioned. Its a mandate as per labor laws.

In this case, if 'disciplinary ground' is mentioned then by no means company can defend them. My friend its a misconception that during probation period employer just can say, 'you are terminated' means your job is over from next day. Probation period means that an employee is not a permanent employee & its testing period. Company will possess all right to terminate an employee, without notice if employee fails to perform & met the rules n regulation of company.

But not without reason. Please Consult this with any good lawyer having experience more then 25-30years in this field. THIS IS ILLEGAL.

Thanks & Regards

Sovik B
30th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Adding,

Only in a FIXED TERM CONTRACT, employer posses right to terminate any employee without any reason during probation period. But a notice period needs to be provided or payment in lieu of it.

Understand this, if any appointment letter is drafted with a clause or similar to it ,that an employee will be under probation period for 6months (less then or equal to 1year) & post that employee will become permanent employee if he/she clear probation period, then we cant called it as FIXED TERM CONTRACT.2- As terms of contact will also be liable to change & both parties have to accept it for continuation of service. If employer does not add this, then if Appointment is challenged, legally it will be accepted as rules of government keeps changing, & hence for long term service conditions are subject to change.

It is considered, that employee decided to join the obligation keeping in mind that he/she will clear probation period & will work for a long time. Here, if employer, says 'You are terminated', means that you are terminated.

Again say, employer is hiring contract employee, appointment letter contain a fixed term of service. Here, employer posses all rights to terminate an employee without stating reason but notice period is mandate or payment in lieu of it.
30th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Hi,

Gaurav,

If you have your appointment letter with you, please confirm that, whether there is any clause like this:

1. Clearly stated that during Probation Period of 6 months, without prior notice, notice period & reason, company posses the rights to terminate. (This form the basis of fixed term contract, when we have to consider any issue related with termination during probation period).

Only in this case employer posses right to terminate an employee without stating reason of termination ,any prior notice & notice period. But I am sure 98% of the employer don't add this clause in appointment letter, else practically no employee will accept the offer.

or Just a clause is mentioned like this or similar in nature:

2. That your probation period will be of 6months, and your service will become permanent once you clear successfully the period of probation.

3 Is there any clause mentioned that , your terms of service will be subject to change in future by the company as per business requirement & continuation of service will depend on mutual agreement.

If any of the clauses 2 /3 or similar to it is mentioned in appointment letter or offer letter, then Company is liable to terminate any employee without any prior notice during probation period, but reason needs to be specified & valid one. Company can take a stand of not stating the reason of termination to employee (exceptional case), but if decision is challenged in labor commission/ labor tribunal , then company have to state the reason & have to validate it.

Regards

Sovik B
30th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Adding,

The moment Termination of Service, occur in case of probationary employee, without stating reason of termination in documents, we have to consider the case as 'Layoff' & not due to termination on disciplinary ground.

If such employee join any other organization, showing previous experience, we have to consider as layoff reason is there is not sufficient documents evidence proving that employee is terminated on disciplinary ground in previous company.

If during verification, previous company provide a written (Forget about verbal) feedback that, employee is terminated on disciplinary ground, and there is a mis-match in version of employee & previous organization, employee cant be considered as candidate with Red verification report. Because in relieving letter, no reason of termination is mentioned, which is provided by same old employer- a contradiction. If claim nothing like such incident took place, then employee have to be given a chance for explanation. With both documents if employee goes to court, and claim previous employer is trying to harm the employee financially, previous company can defend. On first hand, why previous company failed to mention, reason of termination on documents? And why they are claiming now, so? Maximum Employer don't prefer to do this, advantage of employee.

If, employer, mention in relieving letter/termination letter, of a probationary employee that he/she has been terminated on disciplinary ground, domestic enquiry forms a mandate (This is not termination due to poor performance).
30th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Please ignore my last comment, correct comment is this one:

Adding,

The moment Termination of Service, occur in case of probationary employee, without stating reason of termination in documents, we have to consider the case as 'Layoff' & not due to termination on disciplinary ground.

If such employee join any other organization, showing previous experience, we have to consider as layoff reason is there is not sufficient documents evidence proving that employee is terminated on disciplinary ground in previous company.

If during verification, previous company provide a written (Forget about verbal) feedback that, employee is terminated on disciplinary ground, and there is a mis-match in version of employee & previous organization, employee cant be considered as candidate with Red verification report. Because in relieving letter, no reason of termination is mentioned, which is provided by same old employer- a contradiction. If claim , like such incident took place, then employee have to be given a chance for explanation. With both documents if employee goes to court, and claim previous employer is trying to harm the employee financially, previous company cant defend. On first hand, why previous company failed to mention, reason of termination on documents? And why they are claiming now, so? Maximum Employer don't prefer to do this, advantage of employee.

If, employer, mention in relieving letter/termination letter, of a probationary employee that he/she has been terminated on disciplinary ground, domestic enquiry forms a mandate (This is not termination due to poor performance), so that they can defend themselves if challenged that the case is genuine.
30th January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Hi friends,

This discussion is getting interesting, particularly the debate on RTI Act. For the past 7-8 years I am dealing with RTI matters in my company (govt), among other things. I have also personally obtained information under RTI from various public authorities (some successful, many not). Sadly, when information is sought, every public authority tries not to divulge information. Everyone will agree that the RTI Act applies to public authorities alone, and public authority has to notify a Public Information Officers (PIO) and APIOs (if required), and Appellate Authorities. I have not come across any private company having a PIO, simply because the Act does not apply. However, information relating to private companies can be obtained when it is controlled by or reporting to any govt authority (by itself a public authority and will have PIOs an AA). One may get information on private companies from the Registrar of Companies (a public authority). But what information can be sought? The information companies provide to ROC are, say ownership profile, details of directors, liabilities etc. Similarly, listed companies will give certain reports to SEBI regarding issue of shares, profitability, quarterly/annual returns, balance sheets etc. Such information can be available to public through PIO of such authority. But, not routine administrative matters relating employment of persons, their increments, pay, terminations etc. On the contrary, such information can be sought from govt companies which are public authorities. Disciplinary matters included, because of Article 311 of the Constitution, where it is mandatory to issue charge sheet and hold enquiry. This is not applicable to private companies. In private companies (in PSUs as well) disciplinary proceedings applies as per standing orders where its workmen are covered by it. Still service matters of workmen in private companies will not come under the purview of RTI, as far as I know. You may get information on welfare facilitates, safety measures etc. of a private company, through Factories Directorate of a State, since companies file periodical returns to this authority.

If the argument is taken for granted, what is the question that you are going to ask (which authority, Registrar, SEBI, Factory Inspectorate???)? The question is reproduced here:

3. If answer of your separation / termination is not mentioned, contact a Lawyer and sent a mail with query Under RTI Act, your reason of termination or separation.

Which authority possesses this information, other than the private company? Especially, when the information relating to an executive? If any of the PA, if at all, directs to give an answer, the readymade and simple answer is “unsatisfactory performance during probation period”. It is not easy to challenge this contention. If one enters a legal battle, which will take 15-20 years of litigation (from civil court, several rounds in high court, supreme court – remember the opposite party is a company, which has the resources to fight such legal battle. In my view, as far as executives in pvt companies are concerned, it is hire and fire policy that prevails.

Pls see the attached file, para 22 where it is mentioned PA should provide reasons for the decisions taken to the affected parties. Two categories of persons can apply for information under this. (1) Employees of the PA for reasons of any action/decision (2) citizens affected by the decision of the PA, say a Village office failing to provide any service. Can you say service matters of a pvt company come under this?

A presentation is also attached for the interested.
30th January 2014 From India, Bangalore

Attached Files
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File Type: ppt Right to Information Act, 2005 rev.ppt (486.0 KB, 64 views)
File Type: pdf Guidelines for Pub Authority.pdf (603.2 KB, 42 views)

Hi,

VK Sajan,

This discussion is really interested now. For discussion, let us first ignore probationary period, Let us consider a Regular permanent employee of PVT company.

If Reason of termination is not provided by a PVT company, it can be considered as Unfair Termination under labor law. Now, Labor law permit an employee to seek justice from Labor commission (It is not a Private Body). Labor commission posses rights to get such information's from PVT companies too & not only limited to public companies. This power is provided by labor laws. Labor commission is a Public Body, since its activities are funded by Government.

Since Labor commission is a Public Body, RTI Holds good for it. If a complain is lodge in labor commission, it has power to seek information from PVT companies too, regarding its labor practice.

If a complain is lodge,PVT companies in 99% cases at least for cases like termination (Minor One), co-operate with such bodies for a negotiation. That is the stand we all take to avoid further legal battle- non productive one. If someone seeks information, against a complain made, if Labor commission possess information, they are supposed to provide under RTI.

So, if Labor commission, come to know about Reason of Termination, for a particular complain, they are supposed to provide the same, under RTI to person who is complaining. Got it.

Now, for termination of an employee under probationary period, three factors needs to be considered:

1. Whether in agreement it is clearly mentioned that, during probation period employer can terminate an employee without notice, reason of separation, & notice period.

If this clause is not mentioned, company posses right to terminate service of employee without notice & without any reason of why notice is not provided. But a reason needs to be provided.

Supreme Court, in its judgment has said for probationary employees, employment can be terminated without providing a prior notice & without a reason for not providing notice. But still reason of termination, is important.

If Reason of termination is not provided for probationary employees termination in written, it can be concluded as a LAYOFF too. Which is fine. For poor performance its fine too. No need to challenge. Its fair, part of life, there are more opportunities left yet to come.

But if termination is made on disciplinary ground, domestic enquiry become important. For Instance forget this case, say an employee is terminated on disciplinary ground, and charges against him is sexual harassment or sexual abusion. Under such scenario, when serious allegations are made, appeal for justice will not be limited to Civil Court but also criminal Court.

Here if employer decided to remain silent, employer will harm other organizations too. Here comes the importance of Cause of Termination.

Try and understand my stand, if termination is made on disciplinary ground, still its fine if reason is clarified. It cant harm someone's career right. Question here is not challenging decision of company.

If I was in Gaurav's Place I would have said to the HR, I Respect Your decision, thank you. But my point is provide a reason of termination in clear details. If I was in Gaurav's Place, I would have shown the same experience to my next employer, honestly. I would have said, I was terminated on disciplinary ground, stated in my Relieving letter but still I was innocent as domestic enquiry never happened. And in the reason of termination, it must be present that company has sponsored alcoholic drink in the party.

If company don't wish to provide this, then we have to use other option to get it done, from the company. ITS ALL ABOUT PROVIDING JUSTIFIED & HONEST REASON OF TERMINATION & NOT CHALLANGING THE DESICION.
31st January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Hi

All,

Be it a private company or public, be it permanent employee or probationary, if you are saying officially in papers that ' the employee is terminated on disciplinary ground', ensure to conduct a domestic enquiry first, its a must criteria, because its a serious allegation , disciplinary ground can means a lot and case may not be limited to civil court but also to criminal court.

2nd, if possible try do show other reason for termination of service, try to specify it, but for heaven sake, don't use 'Disciplinary Ground' unless its not very important. I have seen, by my own eyes how an IR officer burnt her ass. Lost job, paid fine, company was imposed a fine of 500,000 INR! Don't stay in illusion that no one cant do anything, and if employee seek legal option, then case will continue for 10 years or 20years.

We, businessman (Including me) don't wish to waste time in Court for such simple reason because

1. We are not enemies of employees.

2. If someone went to court, then somewhere he is willing to say something, we try to negotiate outside but first listen what he/she have to say.

3. Such issues, create a panic among other employees, fear of job security, unfair environment. It increase my attrition rate. Additionally Goodwill loss in market.

4. Why we should pay our lawyer for a non-productive case, where there was a high chance of resolving it within office by a matured HR/IR. I will prefer to remove such HR's who adds my cost unnecessarily.

5. The procedure I mentioned about RTI, involving labor commission, I have seen this by my own eyes. Only PVT company was a famous JUTE MILL. Even Government went for a intervention. Only difference is employee was a permanent employees not probationary.

6. I have said multiple times, this is not a case of layoff, performance related issue, if it was so, its fine. Mention it on papers or not, it hardly matters. But ensure something, if it is on disciplinary ground & you don't mention it on papers, no domestic enquiry, no written evidence from employee showing that you have tried to understand the case/taken measure, you are burning your own hands. If that employee shows that experience in some other company , & in feedback you claim that you have terminated that employee on disciplinary ground, you are hammering last pin in your coffin (If you don't show disciplinary ground on 1st hand ensure never to show it by any means, what ever happens in future, but at your own risk) . You have nothing to defend with. If case goes to court, circumstantial evidence, domestic enquiry report, liabilities report , previous allegations etc will decide your fate.

We are businessman, we invest money for profit & HR/IR is not my son in law or employees are my son. We care profit nothing else. Its better to remove such arrogant HR who don't think in 360' angle about what might happen in future & only complete a task based on present requirement . Sorry boss, truth of life.

This is an honest attempt to open eyes of HR's. Nothing Personal & its totally professional.

Over & Out

Regards

Sovik B
31st January 2014 From India, Mumbai
Rahul,
Just wanted to ask why should management listen to you? If they listen to you and give one chance to you then company is actually encouraging other staff to do such stuff. Come what may you cant create a scene. If your management is not listening to you I think there is nothing wrong.
Anyways whatever has happened has happened. Please do not repeat such foolish mistake.
31st January 2014 From India, Pune
Dear Sweet Sister,

Monica,

I want to ask you something very different from this discussion, not at all related to this discussion, friends please don't consider this post as part of this discussion. Forget about all industry, let us consider only IT/ITES industry.

I have a few question to you, as you are a well educated, well experienced HR, my knowledge & skills are not at all comparable with you. I have worked with a few fortune 500 companies in past, but not in core HR.

Q. In which country concept of HR taken place?

Q. What is the difference between old Personal management & Human Resource Management?

Q. Why in present industry we use HRM, instead of PR or IR?

Q. Why Human Psychology forms an essential part of HRM?

Q. Do HR's in IT/ITES wish employees to form Trade Union, Staff Association etc? If yes, let us all know that, so that we can decide what stand we should take in future?

Q. What additional flavor alcoholic drinks adds in a party? Why company sponcer them, irrespective of the fact that people lose their senses after getting intoxicated?

Q. As HR, what is their basic role in grievance handling?

Q. Does seniors mean 'Prime Minister of India'? If yes, then let us know? In that case, I will never work in any small company, except any fortune 500 companies or will do business?- I am Scared dear, sis! as I am not president of India or US.

Q. If any employee joins any organization, whose service he/she joins, HR's, MD's , CEO's, Process head or the company's?

Q. Once a VP, of Fortune 100 company asked me, (2000 billion USD Company), in which side I will stay post MBA,Employees or Employers? (My designation during that time was of a simple ground level executive, I use to know him only because we use to work in same company, during that time I was a student of 2years, regular MBA & was just chit chatting with him) Same question I have for you dear sweet Sis?

(FYI my answer was, I am at company's side, I will do whatever I need to do, to keep reputation & profit of my company. But, employees will be like my assets in balance sheet. In business we follow give & take policy.)

I don't know why those sort of activities don't happen with me, what happened with Gaurav, yaar, this is not fair. I think before taking this sort of measure you all HR's think what will happen, if the guy turn out to be a devil, right, sis?

Over & Out. Take care, sweet Sisee Monica.

Regards

Sovik B

MBA- HR & Finance

B.Sc, Mathematics Honors, Ramakrishna Mission VC College, Rahara

Under- University Of Calcutta

Managing Director

S.S ENTERPRISE
31st January 2014 From India, Mumbai
To All Human Resource Professional, we don't know whether we would be able to help Gaurav or not, but can we all take an Oath today, that irrespective of Caste, Creed, Color, Sex, religion, that we will not support or encourage alcoholic drinks or any intoxicating product, in office premises or official parties. We will not allow any such request.
If, due to any reason, we fail to convince management, then still we will not participate in such get together with a glass of liquor. We might be too small to change others but at least, can we change ourselves?
Until & Unless, we take a stand today, this story will repeat again & again. Forget about laws , rules & code of conduct, can we try this honestly for sake of morale.
If no, then we are in a mood that we will not learn even from practical case studies.
31st January 2014 From India, Mumbai
hi frds,

So, at least, it is settled that only public authorities have the RTI option. if Labour Commissioner/ALC/DLC/LO is approached, he may direct the company to give a reply. But whether the company (which was adamant in terminating the employee and not listening to him) obliges this is another question, because it will lead another angle of third party information, where the third party is entitled to appeal against PIO.

Normally, only workman (case of individual workman, who was terminated) can approach authorities under ID Act. In the case of executives, the scope for intervention is limited. Participation in such negotiations (conciliation meetings to be specific) are not compulsory on the part of companies, and boss, you may be aware of how companies (esp. pvt) manage labour departments.

Social drinking and cocktail parties are part of corporate life today (does not mean I support greatly), and moderation is the key. It happens when companies celebrate their achievements in production, annual get together with its employees, important business meetings with key accounts/customers (because as you pour alcohol, the eyes of the businessmen is on the sheer profits as you said). and if one drinks too much and spoils the party, the reaction on the part of businessman is understandable, that he may direct the HR person to throw him out. HR may have sympathy with the poor fellow, but has no option. because, the company is not running a charity, but is for business and profits. he has to execute the management order, and cannot plead with his HR philosophy or psychology. anyway, people including HR working in your company are lucky, since even if such mistakes happen, they need not worry.

We all have concern for the affected party in this case, but as well concerned about the legal/behavioural aspects about it as professionals. if the employee gets any favour from labour dept/court/negotiations, well. we too are happy. may be someone can arrange another party! all the best.
1st February 2014 From India, Bangalore
Hi,

Mr Sajan,

Take a stand, first. RTI holds good for both Public & Private companies. Only, scope is narrow for PVT companies, and often indirect approach needs to be taken. We both agreed, please refer your earlier post .

My friend, you know something, when labor commission interfere, pvt companies provide information, they don't opt to challenge because, why should they pay for a non- productive case? We all go by what is legally correct & not morally. But the bitter fact is any business cant be successful for long time if they are immoral reason is they need to depend a lot in society & government.

Do we stand on same platform in this context?

Regarding , management's view, we can try....HR department have authority upto some extent......If due to any reason we fail to convince, cant we join the party without a glass of wine? Else people will call as hypocrite Professional not Human Resource Professional.

But, if we don't try for a genuine reason, that day is not to far, when employee will seek Trade Union, Staff association!

THOSE WHO DONT FAIL, THEY DONT TRY! are we in same stand?
1st February 2014 From India, Mumbai
If any hr don’t join a party, without a glass of wine, can any one force him/her ? No one is stopping them to drink at home or bar? PLEASE THINK IN A COOL HEAD.....
1st February 2014 From India, Mumbai
Hi

Mr VK SAJAN,

First you were with stand, that what ever happens, RTI holds only for Public Companies, later RTI holds good up to some limited EXTENT for PVT companies, but not for termination cause & case will be limited to only civil court, then at last your stand was Labor commission can ask for a reason of termination, and information can be obtained from labor commission via RTI if they posses the information but also PVT companies have an option to appeal against PIO.

Well sir with due request, I would like to inform you that we still have 18 ways to break such adamant PVT companies legally. Father also have a father, known as grandfather. I can share that too, perhaps again you will change your stand then( Just kidding don't take personally).

You, know something the person who posses knowledge of at least 500 ways to increase revenue & reduce cost by win -win resolution & 450 out of it well proved/tested, which is only known by 5%-10% of Industries leaders in current days( and they don't share this information), some how they know 50 ways to grab neck of a PVT companies & to break adamant PVT companies. Its not that our laws are weak, but we are weak. I am like a leech, who add up with leaders of the market & sucks up knowledge /strategies from them. Apply them ,practically, test it & keep it for future as assets or capital.

Its not system is corrupted sir, but we don't know how to survive in that system & reach targets diplomatically. Still this world or system whatever you wish to call is working fine, because at least 5% good people (including me) are present in this world. We have to decide in which side we would like to stay and which path we would like to follow a short cut or a straight , lengthy but correct way.

Everywhere there are challenges, and we fail too, but if we get scared due to our failure or challenges then we can never win our battle sir. We all have our own battle to fight. You know something sir, no one have need for a negotiation, but still we create a need & make that person go for negotiation, this is BUSINESS.

YOU HUMAN RESOURCE PROFESSIONALS ARE RESPECTED IN THE MARKET, PLEASE DONT LOSE IT. ITS AN ASSET FOR YOU ALL ,RATHER FOR US ALL!

People call me or any other guy like me ' A Poisonous Snake', reason is its hardly matter whether we join a party or not, no one care, its hardly matter when we approach someone we love with a job application , no one care. BUT WHEN THEY NEED US FOR THEIR PROFESSIONAL TARGETS TO MEET, WE (A GUY LIKE ME) MUST BE PRESENT. OUR ROLE IS LIKE A GUN, PEOPLE LIKE TO HAVE ONE, SHOW IT TO OTHERS, BUT ONLY FIRE WHEN THERE IS A GENUINE NEED OR RISK! NO ONE CARE, FOR US WHEN THERE IS NO NEED, USELESS PEICE OF METAL.

So, what ever I have said, don't take personally because it is highly professional, sometimes I hate myself too but still we live. I am not at all a harmful guy but I am very diplomatic, learned something from you all guys, sir. Think in a cool & calm head whatever I said. Over & Out , I am out of this discussion.

Thanks & Regards

Sovik B
2nd February 2014 From India, Mumbai
Dear Gaurav,
Though your act is of misbehaviour we need to understand whether it is on the premises of the company or outside the premises. If it is out side the premises of the company then they have no right to terminate your service for misbehaviour.Your management could have discussed,counselled you and giving you a Memo / Warning.
If the Act is not on the premises of the company then they have no right to directly terminate your services.
You can consult an Advocate and send a legal notice to the company to re instate you on work.
However taking into consideration your future career,it is advisable to meet your Seniors / HR Manager of the company,discuss with them,apologize for the act again. Keeping in mind that in future if you are looking for a job in other company then your current company should not give negative verification report. So please settle this matter in peace for your future career.
Regards,
Sumeet
2nd February 2014 From India, Mumbai
Sovik Bhattachaerjee,

You have very little idea of labour laws and laws of this country in general, or a very high opinion of your knowledge, even when it is not matching with the actual law, decisions of the courts and the ground reality.

You have been arguing with everyone who has posted anything on this thread and most of what you say is completely wrong and misleading to the original poster and to any person who reads the thread afterwards. The only thing that you have said right (but it is lost in the complete deluge of words you have let loose) is that he needs to check whether his appointment letter actually has a clause to allow the employer to terminate him without notice. It is possible that it may have been missed out.

As for the rest of your posts, RTI does not apply to the organisation he is working for. Nothing you say will change the fact. Your suggestion will only end up creating more problem for the terminated employee. The rest of your triad against each of the members of this site (including some very seniors) is meaningless as we need to look at the law of the land and nothing else. It does not matter (for example) where Hr originated. If the law does not allow or require a thing to be done, then that is it.

The final fact of the original problem posted by Mr. Gaurav is that he has very little ground to challange the decision of the company. His only way out was a request for reconsideration with a promise to ensure such a thing never happens. That is already closed as the company does not with to entertain any such request from him.

Please stop putting more posts on this.

You have put several things. Readers (hopefully) be able to follow it to the original act / ruling and make their own decision as to the applicability of the same.
2nd February 2014 From India, Mumbai
Dear Colleagues,

Instead of suggesting any steps to the mailer,we have indulged into unnecessarily discussions.No body has been able to suggest any concrete solution to the problem.I agree with Sh Saswata Banerjee that we have had more general discussions rather than on labour laws.But I must hesitatingly appreciate the patience of Sh Sovik Bhattachaerjee in putting his ideas in very very lengthy and repeated mails.I think 5-6 pages discussions on this thread in a simple query was unwarranted.

I would like to give him one advice in respect of his query that since he has hardly put in 4 months of service and has made a blunder (not a mistake), he should try his luck somewhere instead of trying to get back to the company.I would like to repeat the mail of one of the members who said if you even get an entry in the same company, you will have not a good time there. I have come across the behavioral pattern of some persons, who are very apologist on their wrongdoing but repeat the same behavior. I hope, he is not a such person.

I am sorry if my writing has been hurtful for anybody.

BS Kalsi

Member since Aug 2011
4th February 2014 From India, Mumbai
Hi

Mr Saswata Banarjee,

I respect your views & comment. With due request sir, I have a question to you, what is the reason behind taking my name when I had clearly mentioned I am going out of this discussion? Please clarify.

I have heard about you a lot, especially about your 'Labor laws & compliance Audits' & respect you sir . Well, if you had said this before, then we could had a discussion in details, I was looking for a senior & mature person like you, but not now. FYI, RTI hold good for labor commission, or any public body right ? Labor commission can direct a Pvt company to provide a reply or a reason behind a termination, am I correct? Only, pvt companies have a right to appeal against PIO (Third party information), that can be defended too, since you perform, labor laws & compliance audits, I am sure you are well aware of it (I hope I had said something about trade secret/ or losing competitive edge in the market. This is just one of 18 ways, sir. Anyway, I agree with you that, we follow whatever is correct as per laws of land & nothing else. That's it.

Please don't involve me in this discussion any further or take my name sir, that's a humble request to you , else would forced to show all the ways /options legally available. That wont be good , as it would be like showing trum cards we have got. You, know sir, something , I am a guy, who went to high court , first time at the age of 19, since then court, lawyers, PP, etc became a part of my life. Perhaps was not that lucky.

I agree, with you that I am not that well educated, well experienced or know a lot about labor laws or laws of land in general. Thank You sir, for making me remind it.

May god bless you. Take Care. Over & Out , I am out of this discussion, please don't post any message or comments for me via this thread.

Regards

Sovik B
4th February 2014 From India, Mumbai
You keep insisting on making comments that are not right and have the serious reputation of misleading someone reading the thread. So I am forced to respond and to name you specifically.
With regard to your latest comment, labour commission is subject to RTI. however, the RTI can only be for information currently available. It is not a writ that can force the commissioner to collect information from the factory / company or any person that is not already available with him. So there again, any attempt to use RTI to get information from a private sector will not work.
If you have a trump card that helps the original poster, please communicate that to him. If you wish to take up his case, please do that. It's your wish or desire. But if it is not available openly and correctly and can not be communicated on this forum, then it is of no use to the members and should be kept out. I will leave it to the moderators to decide on that.

4th February 2014 From India, Mumbai
Oh Saswata da, agay poro bhalo koray ami ki bolaychi..........Ami o jani, RTI is not a writ petition. Bhalo koray dekho ami ki bolaychi. How to use this weapon.
I know, your blessings will always be there with me & I am not against you. Read in cool & calm mind what I have said. Saswata da poro bhalo koray thanda mathay. Trust me, and you can understand what mean to say, with an open mind.
4th February 2014 From India, Mumbai

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