Anil.arora
Administration Head
Tajsateesh
Recruitment/talent Acquisition, Career Counselling
Raj Kumar Hansdah
Shrm, Od, Hrd, Pms
+3 Others

Thread Started by #ummiasim.sstd@gmail.com

i want to issue a termination letter to one of my subordinate as he is doing other job in the government sector and working with us on the position of crowed controller as well. due to his dual job i want to issue him a termination letter.
13th August 2013 From United States, Fremont
What kind of job he is doing with government sector?
Do you have anything which can prove his second employment?
How did you know that?
Have you inquired or checked your sources properly before taking decision to go for termination?
13th August 2013 From India, Gurgaon
Hello,
Anil Arora has raised valid points.
However, there are a couple of aspects to what you mentioned that are very baffling & gives me a feeling that you are NOT giving the full story.
Normal tendency/psychology in India is to highlight any Government job. So you must have KNOWN this fact when you hired him. In fact, anyone who is doing a Govt job are EXTRA-CAREFUL about NOT HAVING any evidence of working in the Private sector.
Can you pl mention the FULL & COMPLETE details?
Rgds,
TS
13th August 2013 From India, Hyderabad
Dear all,
would you please provide me termination Letter due to dual job. as our employees are engaged in other job. they are doing dual jobs at a time. they work for us only for seven days and the rest they doing their government job. so kindly do provide me the termination in this regards.
14th August 2013 From United States, Fremont
Hello, Can you pl STOP posting multiple threads for the same Topic? You already have another active thread for this same query which has been getting responses/suggestions. Rgds, TS
14th August 2013 From India, Hyderabad
Dear Ummiasim
As already observed and remarked by Tajsateesh; please do not post multiple threads with identical matter. I have, therefore, merged both of your threads in one.
About your query, please give more information about your company.
What are the terms and condition of his employment as "Crowd controller" in your company - Is employment with any other agency (including Govt.) prohibited in it ?
Is he working as a permanent/regular employee ?
What is your designation and role ?
Do you yourself have been assigned the power to terminate the services of an employee ?
Warm regards.
14th August 2013 From India, Delhi
Dear all,

first of all sorry for the second time post. as i am using this forum for the first time and don,t know how to post and reply.

At the time of hiring of him with us, he was jobless thats why we hired him. he works with us from last one and half year as cc (crowed controller) in the project activity of Genral food distribution funded by world food program(WFP) . but recently his father got retirement from his job and the department has hired him on the same potion of his father . now Mr waseem ullah doing two job. one with us and the other with government department( primary school teaching)

and secondly . yes i have the authority to terminate him .

i also draft the below mentioned letter

termination letter

name :waseemullah

designation: crowed controller

I must inform you that it has reported to me by the field that you are engaged in some government department which shows dual employment . dual employment is against our HR policy.

this leave me with no choice but to tell you that your services with sstd has been terminated with effect from 14th of august 2013. please arrange for the returns of organization equipment in your possession(if any) in addition please clear your dues with finance and admin section

regards

HR manager

ummiasim
14th August 2013 From United States, Fremont
Dear all

first of all sorry for the second time post. as i am using this forum for the first time and don,t know how to post and reply.

At the time of hiring of him with us, he was jobless thats why we hired him. he works with us from last one and half year as cc (crowed controller) in the project activity of Genral food distribution funded by world food program(WFP) . but recently his father got retirement from his job and the department has hired him on the same potion of his father . now Mr waseem ullah doing two job. one with us and the other with government department( primary school teaching)

and secondly . yes i have the authority to terminate him .

i also draft the below mentioned letter

termination letter

name :waseemullah

designation: crowed controller

I must inform you that it has reported to me by the field that you are engaged in some government department which shows dual employment . dual employment is against our HR policy.

this leave me with no choice but to tell you that your services with sstd has been terminated with effect from 14th of august 2013. please arrange for the returns of organization equipment in your possession(if any) in addition please clear your dues with finance and admin section

regards

HR manager

ummiasim
14th August 2013 From United States, Fremont
Hello,
You could have given these inputs in your First Posting itself--could have had a solution by now.
Coming to the issue at-hand, I think MORE THAN YOU, it's the guy who has to be worried about the dual employment aspect. Any Government employee ABSOLUTELY CAN'T take to another job. Is there any specific reason why YOU are eager about issuing a Termination Letter to him?
ANOTHER OPTION that you can consider:
Ask him to resign & you can issue a Relieving Letter to him--thereby closing the chapter of his employment with your company. BTW, have you asked him to resign & he refused?
Actually, this will preempt future headaches for you--there is always a possibility that the guy CAN go legal, since you may not be following any formal Show-cause Notice or Inquiry process.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
14th August 2013 From India, Hyderabad
thnx tajsateesh. but i did issue him a warring letter and also call for explanation. but still i dint get any reply from him.
14th August 2013 From United States, Fremont
Dear Ummiasim

You have not as yet replied to the questions put up by Mr. Anil Kumar Arora, as well as those asked by me.

Please find out more, instead of acting on hearsay, and do not be in a hurry to issue a Termination letter.

If you have issued him a Warning Letter, then it does not need a reply.

If you have not received the reply of the Show cause Notice, then pursue the matter with diligence.

There is no bar in calling and meeting him personally for counselling - in fact under the circumstances, this is the best thing to do.

If you wish, you can record in writing the important points of the discussion and both of you can sign the statement; which can prove to be a valuable document in case you terminate him and the person later goes to court.

As suggested by Tajsateesh, persuading him to resign is the best alternative for both.

Moreover, the summary Termination letter drafted by you, is very poor and if the person goes to court, he will definitely win the case; for the following (inter-alia) reasons :
Simply saying; "it has reported to me by the field that you are engaged in some government department which shows dual employment . dual employment is against our HR policy. " will not do.

The following questions arise -
  • what kind of report ? verbal or in writing? whether it was examined that the report is genuine, or it may have been submitted with malafide intentions? whether the point mentioned have been verified with the government deptt. ?
  • certain government jobs/assignment such as duty during election, census or any similar government programmes including primary/adult/female education etc. are binding on certain persons; and such assignments may not constitute a REGULAR EMPLOYMENT. have you tried to ascertain the nature of his job and in which capacity he is doing the job; whether as a PART-TIME/VOLUNTEER/CONTRACTUAL basis or as a regular employee ??
  • where in your HR policy dual employment has been prohibited ? whether such a policy has been circulated/put up in notice board, or the employee made aware of it ?
  • whether it is included in his terms of appointment or standing orders or any relevant legal document ?
Did you give him any chance to explain or defend himself?

Whether DUE PROCESS was followed.

Please DO NOT AVOID finding the answers to the above question before you take any drastic actions and inflict Major Punishment such as Termination.

It is not good to be "trigger-happy".

Warm regards.
14th August 2013 From India, Delhi
Dear Raj kummar,

let me answer of your question and Anil arora,

1. What kind of job he is doing with government sector?

answer: doing teaching in a primary school.

2.Do you have anything which can prove his second employment?

answer: yes i have an email of the project manager in which he mentioned about the second employment.

3.How did you know that?

answer: one of his relative doing the same job with as crowed controller. he called me and informed me about the story. for the confirmation i did call to the project manager . he said yes he is doing other job as well.

4.Have you inquired or checked your sources properly before taking decision to go for termination?

answer: yes i did check all my spy sources. but still didn't take any action.

answer of the Raj kummar question.

1.any other agency (including Govt.) prohibited in it ?

2.Is he working as a permanent/regular employee ?

3.What is your designation and role ?

4.Do you yourself have been assigned the power to terminate the services of an employee ?

answer no 1: yes

answer no 2. yes he is permanant employee of the government but we issued him a contract for 6 month but if we get extension in our project we will issue him extension letter.

answer no 3. My designation is HR Manager . and my role is performing HR related activities which is mention below, as well as supervision of the projects.

• Human Recourse Manager

• Preparing Employees Attendance.

• File Management.

• Assisting HR Manager to prepare employees experience certificates.

• Assisting Program Manager in Proposal writing.

• Assisting Finance Manager to file management.

• Assisting Finance Officer to prepare payment and receipts vouchers.

• Preparing Employees Attendance.

• Assisting M&E Section

• Development and implementation of HR Policy.

• Orientation & Introduction about work setup, to newly hired employees.

• Executes the hiring process as per company policy and practices.

• Development and maintenance of all HR related forms/certificates.

• Maintain and secure employee individual files for record keeping.

• Ensuring all files of staff is updated regularly.

• Development of Job Descriptions & coordination with all the supervisors that they remain updated.

• Human resource administration including contract preparation and renewals; monitoring of leave applications, preparation of hiring memos.

• Maintain leave record of all the employees in Peshawar.

• Provide advice and assistance to supervisor on all HR processes.

• Schedule and conduct and participate in interviews.

• Prepare, develop and implement procedures and policies on staff recruitment, performance management, selection process, salary & benefits.

• Resolve employee conflicts in an effective manner..

• Assisting M&E Section.

• Human resource officer

Provide support to supervisors and staff to develop the skills and capabilities of staff.

• Ensure that accurate job descriptions are in place

• Provide advice and assistance with writing job descriptions

• Provide advice and assistance when conducting staff performance evaluations

• Identify training and development opportunities

• Organize staff training sessions, workshops and activities

• Process employee requests for outside training while complying with policies and procedures

• Provide basic counseling to staff who have performance related obstacles

• Provide advice and assistance in developing human resource plans

• Provide staff orientations

• Access funding for training and write proposals

2. Monitor staff performance and attendance activities.

• Monitor daily attendance.

• Investigate and understand causes for staff absences.

• Recommend solutions to resolve chronic attendance difficulties.

• Provide advice and recommendations on disciplinary actions.

• Monitor scheduled absences such as holidays or travel and coordinate actions to

• ensure the staff absence has been adequately covered off to ensure continuity of

• services.

• Inform affected staff or residents of unexpected absences from work and coordinate

• actions ensuring the continuity of services such as cancellation of events and locating keys.

3. Coordinate staff recruitment and selection process in order to ensure a timely organizedand comprehensive procedure is used to hire staff.

• Provide advice and assistance to supervisors on staff recruitment

• Prepare notices and advertisements for vacant staff positions.

• Schedule and organize interviews

• Participate in applicant interviews

• Conduct reference checks on possible candidates

• Prepare, develop and implement procedures and policies on staff recruitment Inform unsuccessful applicants

• Conduct exit interviews

4. Provide information and assistance to staff, supervisors and Council on human resource and work related issues.

• Develop and implement a human resources plan and personnel management policies

• and procedures

• Promote workplace safety.

• Provide advice and assistance to staff and management on pay and benefits systems

• Research and monitor human resource systems in other organizations within the

• community.

• Explain and provisions of the personnel policy.

• Explain employment standards and legislation such as workers compensation, labour

• standards and Fair Practice Act.

• Organize the transitional provisions of employee compensation, pay and benefits

• when positions are transferred or new positions are funded through contribution

• agreements and other special funding arrangements.

• Arrange for the repairs of computers and other office equipment and assist with

• organizing staff to carry out work due periods of equipment shutdowns.

• Attend Council meetings to provide information, when necessary

answer no 4. the power to terminate the services of employee has been given to me by Managing Director.



did you give him any chance to explain himself?

yes i did.
15th August 2013 From United States, Fremont
My dear friend

I have gone through your detailed reply, which does not answer the points raised.

You have only ascertained the matter verbally from your own sources.

You have not made any effort at all to ascertain it in writing from the government agency which you can produce as evidence.

In your JD and role, there is nowhere stipulated that you are the Disciplinary Authority of that employee or Competent Authority to terminate his services or dismiss him.

Moreover, there has been no real attempt to contact the person and take his version in writing.

You seem to be prejudiced in favour of his termination, which you have stated at the outset in this thread. You may perhaps have been looking for support for your action, without being aware that at CiteHR all facets of the issue are looked into and discussed, rather than supporting a pre-conceived notion.

Anyway, you are free to act as you desire. You can rest assured on the fact that such things keep happening in some companies where Natural Justice is not known. Terminating an employee's services seems to be an easy way out, as there is no dearth of job-seekers.

Moreover, it appears that the employee is helpless enough to take this matter to any Labour Court, which could have definitely asked you to produce documents on the basis of which you are terminating his services.

As it turns out, you do not have any documentary evidence to support your action. (Documents such as the one that proves his other employment; his Appointment Order and Terms and Conditions of Employment; Disciplinary Action taken such as Issue of chargesheet, Departmental Enquiry, Delegation of Authority vested upon you for termination of services etc etc).

Warm regards.
15th August 2013 From India, Delhi
Dear
The learned viewers have raised multiple valid points, which need to be taken care of before going ahead with some written disciplinary action. These are :-
1. Do you have any valid proof of his dual employment.
2. Is there any prohibition of dual employment in your organization, if so, you must ask for an explanation in writing and hold an impartial departmental inquiry, before issue of any separation order.
3. There must not be any personal bias.
Hope this will help you in nut shell.
Best wishes.
AK Jain
HR Personnel
NCL, CIL
15th August 2013 From India, Jabalpur
Dear all,
thanks to all of you, today i did talk to him on phone , he accept that he is doing second job and also promised me that he will put his resignation after closing this month cycle.
i am very much thankfull to all of you for the guidance , becoz i am in clearing stage and don't have enough knowledge and too much experience.
15th August 2013 From United States, Fremont
Dear Ummiasim
It is heartening to note that you have reached an amicable solution !!
Always do remember that we as HR Manager should have concern for people and try to be fair and helpful under whatever situation that we may have to face. Our job is also to develop people, take care of their problems, coach, guide and be supportive in their difficult times.
Not only the employee, but his entirely family depends on his job for their livelihood and well-being. Even if the situation is tempting and easy, we should think over several times and analyse the situation from every angle; without ascribing any intention to his action and as far as possible - giving the benefit of doubt; before proceeding to terminate the services.
Warm regards.
16th August 2013 From India, Delhi
My co is a pvt. ltd. Co. No hr policy has been created and and circulated till now. Can I terminate someone for dual employment.
20th September 2013 From India, Ghaziabad
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