Mahesh.kulkarni1961@gmail.com
General Manager - Hr
Tajsateesh
Recruitment/talent Acquisition, Career Counselling
Bhardwaj Ramesh
Sr.manager-hr&admn
Pkjain62
Service As Dgm-hr/legal
Dmc123
Legal Consultancy
Sdd
Service
J.Gopi Krishna
Agm Hr & Ir
Suresh.loyolite
Hr Executive
Divyaanusha
Hr Executive
+4 Others

Thread Started by #sdd

Dear All, This is regarding misbehaviour of a permanent employee working more than 17 years in organisation. From last some months he is caught misbehaving with staff and the external customers. He comes to office drunk, speaks anything to the customers in that position. Also speaks in rude language to his seniors etc...
We had talks with him and orally warned many times. Also issued letter to him to improve performance. But he is not ready to change himself and not improving his behaviour.
Now what kind of letter to be issued to him. Organise domestic enquiry or suspend him or terminate him....
Pl give some guidelines.
sdd
1st November 2012 From India, Thana
Hello sdd,
Based on what you mentioned, the ONLY option seems to be to terminate him--with proper procedure AND documentation in-place.
However, BEFORE you do it, suggest check out a few aspects--since he worked >17 yrs in your company.
Was any effort made to checkout the reasons--which is DIFFERENT from warnings/talking--for his current attitude/behavior? I presume he was OK earlier--else he wouldn't be serving the company for 17 yrs.
If there are any issues w.r.t. official matters that COULD be the reason(s), it becomes imperative that you assist to resolve them. However, if the reason(s) relate to any personal issues--basically bringing personal troubles to office--then you have 2 options. Option-1 is to terminate him. Option-2 is to help him recover & become effective again--but this depends on how much the company VALUES his services/skills.
Rgds,
TS
1st November 2012 From India, Hyderabad
Dear Sdd
I don't understand the permanent worker who served 17 years is behaving in this matter. Introspect the matter. The misconduct are serious and are punishable under standing order applicable to the company. The service can be easily terminated by issuing charge sheet and proper enquiry. Before that, councelling is important. First try this councelling and if not improved then take appropriate action.
Regards
M.M. Kulkarni
General Manager - HR
1st November 2012 From India, Solapur
Dear TS,

Very valuable suggestions.

Terminations should be used as last resort.

As HR professions we should analyse the reasons why he has started the misbehaviour. It seems as you also mentioned that earlier he may be good employee. Their may be variou reasons :

1 Personal Issues...........see an employees comes to an organisation as Whole Personality. If there are some problems at personal level those would be surfaced at the work also.

2 His Current Status.........it shall be analysed his relations with the superiors and subordinates.why there are changes in his recent behaviour.

3 Gossip and Politics.........wheather he involves himself and be the part of office gossips and politics. Sometimes employees become arrogant due to the politicised environment.

4 Any commitment from the management which is not fulfilled.

5 Any change in the reporting relationships.

After analysing the various reasons,

Try to counsell him to become the better employee.

Involve him in the daily meetings

More intercation shall be developed with him

Involve him in the decisins making.

training and counselling shall definitely helpful for the same.

Thanks
1st November 2012 From India, New Delhi
The rules are prepared for all, there is no difference between new or old employees. issue him show cause notice or give him final warning letter. If still he is not improving than terminate him against the indiscipline during the working hours.
1st November 2012 From India, Delhi
Mr. sdd

First of all you should obtain written complaint from the staff and customers with whom the employee concerned misbehaved with proper witness/ evidence - to build up your case.

On the basis of that issue a SCN to him and suspend him till submission of his reply.

If in his reply he submits an apology give him a warning letter and advised not to repeat the same in future give him a change to improve.

If he denies the allegation in his submission set up a Domestic Enquiry and appoint an enquiry officer as required under the ID Act. If you considered it necessary his suspension can be continued till final enquiry report.

If in the enquiry report charges are proved then take an appropriate final action and award a punishment as you and your management deem fit according to the standing orders applicable on your establishment.

Straightaway termination is not advisable. If there is straightway termination it can be turned down by Labour Court if the employee challenges the same.

pkjain
1st November 2012 From India, Delhi
There are two ways to look at the problem. If the unseemly behaviour is caused by external factors l(factors that do not originate from his nature) ike domestic reasons or as Bhardwaj has provided you with a list of them for easy reference, you need to correct them and counsel the employee. If the employee is unruly and indisciplined by his nature, I think the issue needs to be dealt with under the disciplinary rules of your establishment, since the empoyee may mistake a soft approach like counselling for ineffectiveness of the management.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law advsior
Mumbai
1st November 2012 From India, Mumbai
Dear all,

in the cases of attending duty under the influence of alcohol the first step the Management should take is he should he sent to pathology lab to test the content of alcohol in his blood. If that is not possible then the Management must have witnesses (co-employees) who give statement in writing that the employee was under the influence of alcohol. As per the supreme court the tests are red eyes, smell of alcohol etc. On the very day he was found under influence he can be immedietly suspended by a written letter.After this he can either be issued showcause notice or a chargesheet. In any case if the management wishes to terminate services proper departmental enquiry as per the standing orders is must. If warning or 4 days suspension is to be given then enquiry is not necessary. How many years he has worked in the organisation is not relevant. His earlier misconducts can be used against him as bad past service record while punishing hi. In case of any further doubts I will be happy to advice

S.M.Paranjape. Adv (Labour law Consultant)

9850083760
1st November 2012 From India, Pune
sdd,
No need to think much just issue show cause notice with immediate effect ,if he realize his mistake & is ready to apologize in written & commit as well to retain the office decorum as desired,in thAT case u can retain that employee,otherwise you can appoint an enquiry officer & terminate that person under a major misconduct,There is no need of counselling as it will appreciate him to do the indiscipline agan.So just go for a strict action against the employee as it is priority to maintain a harmonious environment in company.
2nd November 2012 From India, Delhi
Hello everyone,
This is a very sensitive issue regarding an employee who served the organization for almost 17 years which should be appreciated first.As an Hr I can say that it should be the first responsibility of an Hr in that organization to be EMPATHETIC.
They should first try to understand what is the reason behind his unaccepted behavior.
To check with his past records that whether such behavior was earlier seen or this is for the first time?
If this kind of behavior is repetitive then the HR should deal it stringently but if it is for the first time then the reason behind this behavior should be traced.
Then the next step is to connect with the employee,communicate with the employee and Counsel him.
If the employer is valuable to the organization then his suspension or termination will put the organization into a loss of manpower.
Thanks
2nd November 2012 From India, Hyderabad
Sdd,
Look at the issue from the management point of view.....Employee will always behave like employee, he will have 100s of reasons to justify his mistakes. So what if serves 17 yrs or 100 yrs, it doesn't mean he can spoil the work place. Go for strict action as per your company HR policy.
if you show mercy you cannot be manager. Rules applicable irrespective of anyone with any position holding with company.
1. Get co-workers opinion on him.
2. Warn him with written letter and if he apologize get the same in written.
3. If he continue again....Issue him a termination letter with notice period(optional)
Keep all the supportive documents and proofs for his misbehaviourial attitude inside office premises.
Regards,
Suresh
2nd November 2012 From India, Chennai
Dear SDD,
Request you to talk to his family since most of the cases because of family issue and little misunderstanding between boss and subordinate relationship may be the reason for this strange activities.
It can be solved, if you try to talk to the person with personal care along wtih his family.
Thanks.
ASK
2nd November 2012 From India, Madras
Gayatreekar
Empathy is most misunderstood concept in HR. Many a time, we, instead of empathysing, will in fact be sympathysing with the employee unknowingly which is often found to be mispalced.In the instant case, the employee has reached the pinnacle of indiscipline by coming to office in drunken condition and misbehaing with customers who constitute the bread and butter of an organisation and he was warned many times before about his unseemly behaviour but still he is persisting in it. Should HR devote all it's time and energy reforming an incorrigible employee much to the neglect of it's orther responsibilities.However Iam not advocating any summary dismissal of the employee. If the HR still feels that there is scope for reforming the employee, it can try another chance. If not, the case merits disciplinary action. It is the HR that has to take a prudent decision.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Advsor
Mumbai
2nd November 2012 From India, Mumbai
Hi,
This is Divyaanusha, i have been working as an Executive HR in Hospitals. I have to give circulars regarding Staff Nurses and admin Staff behaviour and their respective nature with their superiors, HODs and Doctors during their working hours. Because some of the staff is not maintainig respective nature. Plaese help me.
14th July 2016 From India, Hyderabad
Dear SDD, In what capacity is the workman working? If he is in worker category and standing orders are applicable to him, then you have to issue a chargesheet, conduct a domestic enquiry and if the misconduct is proved in enquiry, then past record of the worker has to be examined, then you can take the appropriate decision
21st July 2016 From India, Pune
Initally we have to establish the misconduct of the employee by way of testing of blood at Pathology lab and written complaints from witnesses and make that employee admit that he was under the influence of alcohol and build up a file and give him a chance to improve. If still he doesn't change and again if he commits and get the domestic enquiry done and follow the Principle of natural justice strictly and terminate him.
In such a case even if the employee move to court of law also, management do at right side
Thanking you
GK
HR
24th July 2016 From India, Mumbai
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