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Thread Started by #pradyumna_atri

If an employee once crosses the max salary limit for PF deduction (Rs 6500) can we stop his pf deductions? Some such employees have come to me with a request to stop deduction their pf if possible.
31st October 2012 From India, Delhi
No..It can not be stopped even if the basic pay exceeds Rs.6500/pm.But you can restrict the EPF wage (Basic +DA) to Rs.6500 for PF treatment even if the actual basic + DA is more than Rs.6500/PM
31st October 2012 From India, Chandigarh
Ones member become "epf" member its not possible to stop deduct epf till he resigned the job. If u want to stop to deduct epf than ones fill up resignation form from member & fill up pf withdrawl form than after member join same establishment & salary >6500 than u will stop deduct epf..
31st October 2012 From India, Surat
Dear Pradyumna PF once started ..cant be stopped... PF is mandatory for company more than 20 employees..
31st October 2012 From India, Mumbai
Hi, You can deduct Rs. 780/- even the basic is exceeding the Rs. 6500/-. For further information, do let me know.
31st October 2012 From India, Hyderabad
-----
Hi Pradyumna,
With ref. to your Quote, the Rs.6500/- is "NOT" based on SALARY.
Note – If the BA+DA are more than Rs.6500/-, then the calculation for AC 1 (employer Share only) and AC 10 is as follows.
6500 x 3.67 i.e. 239
6500 x 8.33% i.e. 541 common for all salary, which are above Rs.6500.
31st October 2012 From India, Tirunelveli
Ones member become "epf" member its not possible to stop deduct epf till he resigned the job. If u want to stop to deduct epf than ones fill up resignation form from member & fill up pf withdrawl form than after member join same establishment & salary >6500 than u will stop deduct epf..
BREAK IN SERVICE AT LEAST 3 MONTH(NOT SHOW SALARY IN SALARY REGISTER ONLY CASH PAYMENT IN THIS PERIOD) FOR THOSE MEMBER WHO NOT WANT TO DEDUCT PF FROM THEIR SALARY,THAN AFTER REJOIN THAT MEMBER ON SALARY REGISTER WITHOUT DEDUCT PF.

31st October 2012 From India, Surat
Mr. Chirag shaha
If a member’s age is 25 years and suppose he resigned from the services (for getting the benefit as suggested by you) what would be procedure and entitlement for getting the withdrawal of full accumulation of PF, specially keeping in view the provisions/ procedure laid down in the Para 69 (1) (a) of the employees’ Provident Fund Scheme, 1952 which allow for full withdrawal only at the age of 55 years(except in special circumstances ). should he has to wait or can withdraw the amount ?
Is the practice suggested by you legally tenable ?? Can a employer pay salary through cash voucher without deduction of PF even for one day??
In which Sec/Para of the Scheme three months waiting period has been described. Would you please enlighten us in this regard.
Thanks
Pkjain
31st October 2012 From India, Delhi
OK
PK Jain
1st your do not have to wait for 55th birthday to withdraw your EPF as read in Para 69 1 (e) & 2.
now about the legality of the suggestion given above is that they are not legal.
question of three months wait is not right, it is two months (Para 69 (2)(e)).
Stay Cool,
Atom
31st October 2012 From India, Phagwara
Dear Members,
Here I have a doubt. Suppose an employee coming under PF scheme is drawing salary (Basic Pay+DA) more than 12,000/- and the employer is deducting PF contribution @ 12% of Rs.12,000/- Employer is also contributing equal amount to his PF Account. But now the employer wish to restrict the contributions only to the statutory limit of Rs.6,500/- Is it possible, is there any problem. Kindly clarify.
Peethambaran
31st October 2012 From India, Kochi
Dear pk jain
good evening
please read the question asked by pradyumna_atri "can we stop pf deduction member salary above 6500" i still say yes just pay salary in cash for two month which not shown on any legal document & withdraw the pf/fpf amount. Than after join establishment now member treat as a "new member" & as per epf law salary above 6500 (basic+da) not to deduct epf.
Its all legaly if employee & employer ready to do like this nobody can challenge.

31st October 2012 From India, Surat
Mr atomz
pls read my suggestion carefully its all legal & if u not agree with me than show me any judgment in this matter
I GIVE U ONE EXAMPLE
IF MEMBER A JOIN & DEDUCT PF ON SALARY 6500 & HE RESIGN HIS JOB & HE GET PF/ FPF AMOUNT IN HIS ACCOUNT
& NOW
MEMBER "A" REJOIN THE ESTABLISHMENT & HIS SALARY ABOVE 6500 THAN ESTABLISH LIABLE TO DEDUCT PF ON SALARY WHICH IS ABOVE 6500???????
I NOT READ ANY LAW IN THIS MATTER IF ANY CHANGES IN WAGES LIMIT FOR EPF THAN GUIDE ME WITH EPF OFFICE LEGAL DOCUMENT

31st October 2012 From India, Surat
Hi Pradyumna,
If any employee don’t want to avail PF facilities in this case first you have to take the resignation of those employees as well as you have to upload their data online containing their left reason & date.
Afterwards, from the next month you can update their basic salary above PF limit i.e. Rs. 6500/-. Thus you can stop the PF deduction with Legality.
31st October 2012 From India, New Delhi
OK

Peethambaran

if the employee is giving EPF on 12000 and employer is also contributing the same amount (12% on 12000) then the employer has the freedom to reduce his EPF liability upto 6500 of salary. (judgement is also given in dis regard)

chiragshah6001

now first to your reply to PK Jain, that "if employer and employee agree then it is legal"

Legality of EPF Act is not depended upon the employer or employee agreeing on something.

and Now to your example:

that an Employee say "A" is working in an establishment and EPF is being deducted from the salary and then he is shown resiged and for two months he is given cash not mentioning the salary on muster roll just to withdraw the EPF. After withdrawal of EPF the employee again shown joined as "new employee" where basic + DA is more 6500 then there is no need of epf deduction.

first it is fraud and the question of it is being legal does not arise.

Now on rejoining the establishment Form NO.11 (R) has be sent to the EPFO where employee has to mention his previous employment then what??? and what about other industrial laws like ESIC Act or Gratuity Act.

and

lastly please read Pradyumna Kumar Atri's question carefully.

Stay Cool,

Atom
31st October 2012 From India, Phagwara
Dear Atom

Thanks for giving a perfect, legally compliant reply.

As HR professionals we should not think of ways and means to circumvent the Law of the land and its Acts.; and if any loopholes exists we should not exploit them; rather believe and act in the spirit of the Law.

This is the reason that even simple Acts are made voluminous and complex so as to avoid any scope for mis-interpretation or mis-representation.

As Hr professionals with integrity we should not think of fraudulent ways as suggested by certain members; and in this connection I appreciate some of your observations; as quoted below :

-- "Legality of EPF Act is not depended upon the employer or employee agreeing on something.""

--"... then he is shown resiged and for two months he is given cash not mentioning the salary on muster roll just to withdraw the EPF. ""

-- "... Now on rejoining the establishment Form NO.11 (R) has be sent to the EPFO where employee has to mention his previous employment then what??? and what about other industrial laws like ESIC Act or Gratuity Act."

Please keep up the good work.

Warm regards.
1st November 2012 From India, Delhi
Dear Chiragshah6001

Please re-consider your suggestions as quoted above.

Do you think as HR managers, it would be ethical to recommend such fraudulent practices ?

""just pay salary in cash for two month which not shown on any legal document & withdraw the pf/fpf amount. "

Such action amounts to "äbetment" in case of criminal offence; viz.

In Bhagwan Das vs. Kartar Singh and Ors (2007) 11 SCC 205, the hon’ble Supreme

Court held:

“9. The word "abetment" has been defined in Section 107 IPC as follows:

Abetment of a thing - A person abets the doing of a thing, who -

First - Instigates any person to do that thing; or,

Secondly - Engages with one or more other person or persons in any conspiracy for the doing of that thing, if an act or illegal omission takes place in pursuance of that conspiracy, and in order to the doing of that thing;

or Thirdly - Intentionally aids, by any act or illegal omission, the doing of that thing.

Explanation 1 - A person who, by willful misrepresentation, or by willful concealment of a material fact which he is bound to disclose, voluntarily causes or procures, or attempts to cause or procure, a thing to be done, is said to instigate the doing of that thing.

Explanation 2 - Whoever, either prior to or at the time of the commission of an act, does anything in order to facilitate the commission of the act, and thereby facilitates the commission thereof, is said to aid the doing of the act.

Also note what you suggest;

"Its all legaly if employee & employer ready to do like this nobody can challenge "

We should attempt to educate HR fraternity and guide them on the Right path; rather than teach them un-ethical and illegal practices.

Warm regards,
1st November 2012 From India, Delhi
Pradumanya,
No.....once anyone become the member of EPF you can not stop that employee frm deduction of EPF even if the salary goes above 6500 but employer can restrict the EPf wage to 6500....which mean the employer is bound to pay his share on 6500 i.e 3.67% in A/c 1 ,8.33% for pension A/c 10,1.1% for A/c 2as admin charges,0.5% for EDLI(employee death link insurance) in A/C 21,0.01% in a/c 22 for administrative expenses.
1st November 2012 From India, Delhi
i am a bit confused with this calculation of PF deduction. They say one share ( Employer Share ) must be 12.5% of basic + DA , while i noticed both are deducted from the CTC of the employer.Please suggest the actual Salary break up with the PF deduction
1st November 2012 From India, Kochi
Dear
If PF member exceeds Rs 6500/- his /her monthly salary(Basic plus DA), in no condition membership be withdrwan. A liberty to restrict contributiion up to Rs6500/ Salary/wages could be observed.
This is for kind information,
VK Sharma
HR, Tarapur
1st November 2012 From India, Vasai
Dear All,
once an employee become epf member he cannot withdraw from the EPF facility. If at the time of joining and this is his/her first company and basic salary is more than 6500, then only he has the choice to not to opt for EPF services.
1st November 2012 From India, Delhi
From the above post of various gentlemen it is clear-
• That a existing member of PF cannot be allowed not to contribute even after crossing the limit of Rs. 6500/-
• There is a device, as suggested by Mr. Shah, for getting the existing member of PF, out of it-i. e. First the member has to resign and withdraw his full accumulation under the PF Fund then he can rejoin the same establishment and he would be treated as exempted employee for the purposes of the PF Act.
• The devise suggested by Mr. Shah may work but it is not legally sound and against the spirit of the Act. As such not advisable to adopt and it is neither in favour of employee nor employer and may amount to “artificial break in service” when legally examined and no prudent employer would like to adopt the same.
• The final answer of the question raised by Pradyuma_atri is found negative.
thanks to all....
pkjain
1st November 2012 From India, Delhi
Dear All Seniors,
I am really very thanks to all of you. This is really very useful information sharing by you...
It will be helpful for me in next future.
Special Thanks to Mr. Atom and Mr. Raj Kr. for Contributing.
Thanks again,
Regards,
Viral Gajjar
1st November 2012 From India, Ahmadabad
dear sir,,
good morning
in this matter i want some clarification
as per epf scheme 1952 para26a retention of membership "a member of the fund shall continue to be a member until he withdraws under para69,"
when member withdraw epf/epf amount than after he is not a member of epf act as per law
& member treat as a new member as per my thinking pls if i am wrong than guide me with law related documentary

1st November 2012 From India, Surat
mr atom not to worry to fill up form no 11 (R)member already withdraw the amount & now he is not a member of epf pls read para26(a) retention ship of membership
1st November 2012 From India, Surat
Dear Pradumna, Please follow the link "#post1980038" as i have the same problem but some advisor have also replied. please checked
1st November 2012 From India, Jamshedpur
Dear Pradyumna Kumar Atri,
Greetings for the day,
First of all it should be noted that Rs. 6500/- is cealing for EPS/EDLI. As far as EPF is concern it should be noted that deduction should be done on Basic+DA+Food conc(if any) .Thidly the deduction of EPF is mandatory for those also whose basic +da is upto Rs.6500/-. Once an employee become a member of EPF scheme can only and only be excluded after resignation & withdrawal of accumulation.During continuation of job he can't be excluded until & unless his/her salary exceeded to the prescribed limit.
Thanks & Regards,
From,
Sumit Kumar Saxena,
+91-9899669071
1st November 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
Mr. Pradymna,
This is to inform you that Employer will get three types of option out of which he can opt any one condition in beginning & that will retain for future
1 Every employee is covered under the PF act & their contribution is calculated on whole of the basic payable amt (12% of that basic payable amt)
2 Only those Employees are covered under the PF whose basic salary is upto 6500/-
3 All employees are covered under this act but the ceiling limit of 6500/-
Good Luck!!
Regards
Menika Sajwan
1st November 2012 From India, Delhi
Dear friends,
Many queries are being raised repeatedly by our friends and some are new members. For the benefit of all details collected are attached as handy reference. It is advisable to verify all relevant uptodate information for prevailing stipulations from the concerned PFO so that errors are avoided in time.
Regards,
kumar.s.
1st November 2012 From India, Bangalore

Attached Files
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File Type: doc PF a Gist.doc (66.5 KB, 175 views)
File Type: doc FAQ-Employees Provident Fund Act-L-5.doc (115.0 KB, 173 views)
File Type: doc PF-WAGES-DEFINE.doc (37.0 KB, 186 views)
File Type: doc Frequently Asked questions related to Employees Provident Fun1.doc (40.5 KB, 196 views)

mr atom
dear sir,,
good evening
in this matter i want some clarification
there is no problem to fill up form no 11(R)
as per epf scheme 1952 para26a retention of membership "a member of the fund shall continue to be a member until he withdraws under para69,"
when member withdraw epf/epf amount than after he is not a member of epf act as per law
& member treat as a new member as per my thinking pls if i am wrong than guide me with law related documentary

1st November 2012 From India, Surat
No you can not stop the contribution to EPF as he is Member. you can stick the Salary of Rs6500\-even though he is drawing more than that. Ajay Duragkar
1st November 2012 From India, Nagpur
mr ajay
i not agree with
as per epf scheme 1952 para26a retention of membership "a member of the fund shall continue to be a member until he withdraws under para69,"
when member withdraw epf/epf amount than after he is not a member of epf act as per law
& member treat as a new member& salary(basic+da)>6500 than pf not applicable

1st November 2012 From India, Surat
Hi Seniors
I want to know that if senior staff salary is high and on the basis of salary he is exempt from pf deduction but senior staff want to be part of EPF then only pf Ac-1 and Ac -10 basic will be 6500/- other pf account number will be differ from 6500 limit.
With Regards
Raj Asiwal
1st November 2012 From India, Meerut
OK
chiragshah6001
you are right as Para 26-A, but does it also mention that it is ok to give false documentation for the purpose of EPF withdrawal as you are suggesting.
Now can you also throw light on Payment of Gratutity Act Sec 2-A. because resign in muster roll as suggested by you is also considered as resigned in other industrial acts.

1st November 2012 From India, Phagwara
Hi,
It is not legally appropriate not to deduct PF contribution of the member if He/she crosses the limit of Rs.6500/-. In case if the salary exceeds 6500/-p.m. you have to restrict the contribution upto Rs.6500/-. ---R.
1st November 2012 From India, Bahadurgarh
Dear Friends
As per the provisions of Para 69(2) of the EPF Scheme, the full Amount standing to the credit of a member may be withdrawn in case he ceases to be an employee in any estb. to which the Act applies provided that he has not been employed in any factory etc to which the Act applies for a continuous period of not less than 2 months immediately preceding the date on which he makes an application for withdrawal.
Regards
1st November 2012 From India, Ludhiana
Dear all,
As per above discussion, PF deduction is limited to Rs.6500/- but we may extend the benefit to employee by way of getting joint declaration form duly signed by employer & employee and forward the same to RPFC for clearenace / information.
for informtion please.
Regards,
ASK
2nd November 2012 From India, Madras
If an employee once crosses the max salary limit for PF deduction (Rs 6500) can we stop his pf deductions? Some such employees have come to me with a request to stop deduction their pf if possible.
There is no provision to stop PF deduction, even after exceeding his salary (Basic+DA) upto maximum limit of Rs.6500/-. In such cases, you have to calculate 12% of P.F deduction on the maximum limit of Rs.6500/- only.
Employer not to reduce wages or not to stop the PF deduction, etc.
No employer in relation to an establishment to which any Scheme or the Insurance Scheme applies shall, by reason only of his liability for the payment of any contribution to the Fund or the Insurance Fund or any charges under this Act or the Scheme or the Insurance Scheme reduce whether directly or indirectly, the wages of any employee to whom the Scheme or the Insurance Scheme applies or the total quantum of benefits to which the employee is entitled under the terms of his employment.
Regards,
Tirupathi Reddi
3rd November 2012 From India, Secunderabad
There is no provision to stop PF deduction, even after exceeding his salary (Basic+DA) upto maximum limit of Rs.6500/-. In such cases, you have to calculate 12% of P.F deduction on the maximum limit of Rs.6500/- only.
Employer not to reduce wages or not to stop the PF deduction, etc.
No employer in relation to an establishment to which any Scheme or the Insurance Scheme applies shall, by reason only of his liability for the payment of any contribution to the Fund or the Insurance Fund or any charges under this Act or the Scheme or the Insurance Scheme reduce whether directly or indirectly, the wages of any employee to whom the Scheme or the Insurance Scheme applies or the total quantum of benefits to which the employee is entitled under the terms of his employment.
Regards,
Tirupathi Reddi
3rd November 2012 From India, Secunderabad
No 6500 is the limit of epf pension fund limit. if any employee stop his pf after 6500 a letter give to pf office signed by his employer.
3rd November 2012 From India, Chandigarh
its not possible to stop epf by given letter to pf office.once member become epf member than not possible to stop deduct pf till he left the job.
3rd November 2012 From India, Surat
Hi All,
PF is something which is benificial to employees and a social security for employees. I don't understand, this being the hr Forum, instead of encouraging the good things like savings in pf,why we confront to go against the good things like PF.If we all encourage and ensure true transparency in paying pf Benifits in time to employees,then no employee will ever think of withdrawing himself from the job itself leave abt Pf withdrawal etc.
Let Us think Positive .
Bijay
4th November 2012 From India, Vadodara
Dear All,
While appreciating bijay_majumdar, it gives me a pain on the discussions we as a HR Professional had on this subject. First of all PF is a social security measure to which we all should stand to. Law is very clear that once you are a member of PF, you remain as member of PF till last. I hope no HR Professional will have debate or doubt on this. The suggestions by some of my Professional friends are un-ethical, unfair and illegal. I do appreciate some members for their views. I do appreciate the question by pradyumna_atri.
Hope you all will take this in good spirit.
Thanks and regards.
Keshav Korgaonkar
Shantadurgaent.com,Insurance Advisors,Corporate Advisors,Legal Advise,Wage and salary,Shantadurgaent.com,Labour Compliance Audit,SSI registration,NOC from
4th November 2012 From India, Mumbai
Hi P A ATRI
Once a employee has become the member of provident fund in any establisment he will continue to be the member of the fund till the age of sixty because when he again enrolls himself in any establishment he has to fill form no 11 (Para 34 of EPF Scheme 1952) which is mandatory through present employer. where he has to give the details of his previous employment along with provident fund a/c no.
26th November 2012 From India, Mumbai
Dear friends,, Can you suggest me how to deduct the pf amount from salary,it is only on the basic amount or on the both the basic+da amount.
28th November 2012 From India, Hyderabad
Hi All, Punjab Chandigarh & Haryana Labour welfare fund rate changed. punjab & chandigarh old rate 1 or 2 & new rate is 2 or4. Haryana old rate 5 or 10 & new rate is 10 or 20.
26th February 2013 From India, Chandigarh
Dear Suneel ji,
The current topic of discussion is PF. Still I am giving answer to your query as under:
Wage limit for ESI Contribution is uniform through out the country, i.e. Rs.15000/- gross per month.
13th August 2013 From India, Mumbai
I have Big Confusion in PF amount.. Please Help me.. Can I call you directly for my query.. If, yes then please give me your contact number.. don't mine you can give me your office number if you don't want to share your personal number.
Thanks,
Viral
24th September 2013 From India, Ahmadabad
PF Aadhar KYC of employees once approved we are unable to change it online.If the employee makes changes in details of Aadhar card and informs us.we cannot make changes on employer portal and UAN login(to modify basic details) when we try to upload Aadhar kyc it shows already approved KYC.
28th February 2019 From India, Mumbai
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