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making remark by authority like employee muster roll remark
from h r dept.
No info on paper can be written by Red pen. you can take any legal form or
even your school college admission form/ if you filled up by using
Red Pen, its get cancelled Red and Blue colour pen are used by authority for remarks against filled up reports,etc.
11th May 2012 From India, Ahmadabad
Not quite sure why muster roll is a Legal Document, sounds strange to me. Surely it is only used to record attendance for leave and payroll purposes. Payroll records would be a better legal document to my mind if it came to the crunch, but maybe things are different in India.
Simple solution - find a piece of string and tie a blue or black pen to the roll for employees to use.
Secondly send an email to all employees pointing out in a calm and good natured way that the roll needs to be signed in blue or black ink. End of discussion.
Try not to complicate simple things. I'm sure there are more important tasks for HR staff to deal with :-)
12th May 2012 From Australia, Melbourne
Usually three colours will be used to marking attendance to differentiate working shift. Blue for Day shift, Green for Half night shift and red for night shift.
Inspector of Facories also suggest the above.
12th May 2012 From India, New Delhi
But to correct John, there are many SMEs in India which still use the Muster Rolls for attendance marking [more to do with affordability than convenience/availability], which COULD become legal docs if any legal situation arises. Payroll records form the next step in the process [collated from the Muster Rolls].
And Pon is right--colors other than blue & black fade away after sometime--which becomes critical if the records have to be retained for a long time [years]. Also, between Blue & Black, Black is suggested since the pigments used in black ink resist water [while blue ink can get erased when water/rain/sweat falls over the writing].
The solution that John gave is really quite simple: tie a blue or black pen to the roll for employees to use.
12th May 2012 From India, Hyderabad
As far as my knowledge goes, attendance is a legal document because it contains evidence of an employee having attended the office. Many are not aware of it. In several cases, this has been produced as evidence in Court of Law.
And Courts have accepted it.
As to your point, usually the general convention is that only when an employee absents, it is marked in red ink in the muster roll. So if your employees do not heed to your advice, wherever they have marked in red ink, treat that as absent on that day! So simple. This may have a salutatory effect on them.
But a word of caution!! Please inform them well in advance that if they do not follow you advice and continue to mark in red ink, you will be constrained to mark those days as absent!After giving a reasonable time to mend their ways, if there is no change in their behavior, you can straight away mark absent wherever attendance is marked in red ink. Be tough. Don't compromise. This suggestion may sound harsh but this is one of the ways in which you can deal with recalcitrant employees.
You can also follow the advices given by other members also,which are mild.
12th May 2012 From India, Bangalore
13th May 2012 From India, Mumbai
14th May 2012 From India, Pune
Generally late marks, half days etc are marked in red by the authorised person in the attendance register.
14th May 2012 From India, Pune
No there is no legal rule but in manual of office procedure thereis some reference to use of different colour inks by different level of officers. Generally Blue & black is used at lowest level, green in middle level and red at highest level. But point pertinent to mention here is that no matter which colour is used by which level, ever official signs with either blue or green ink preferably. Read the following extract :-
"Every record creating agency, he wrote, in creating records of permanent nature should use fountain pen inks and ball point pen inks of permanent nature prescribed by the Bureau of Indian Standards as is: 221-1962, is: 220-1988, and is 1581-1975 in respect of fountain pen inks of blue/ black colour; and is: 8505-1993 in respect of ball point pen ink. So far as fountain pen ink of permanent nature is concerned, the National Archives declared, the prescribed colour is blue-black, while for ball point pens the colours are blue, black, red or green. Longevity clearly was not a sufficient criterion to clinch the question"
And Para 68, sub-para 5 of the Manual of Office Procedures now reads:
"Initial drafting will be done in black or blue ink. Modifications in the draft at the subsequent levels may be made in green or red ink by the offices so as to distinguish the corrections made."
" Para 32(9) of mannual of office procedure says that only officers of Joint Secretary level and above may use red or green ink, and that too only in rare cases. Para 68(5), on the other hand, does not limit the use of these colours to any particular rank; and it does not say that the corrections and amendments for which the colours are used have to be of an especially rare kind"
BUT NOTHING IS CLEAR AS THIS IS THE WORK OF OUR GREAT BABUS
you can use any color you want, but yes, there are rules like that that can apply and sometimes agents will not take a document signed in red or green if they are wanting you to sign specifically as a "civilian" or "state person" or "driver" or "resident" or what-not. Different color inks can have specific meanings on legal documents.
in Law, red ink in a signature can mean that the author is a living man or woman, signing as a living man or woman. it means possessing blood, basically.
black & blue can mean that it was signed in the capacity as a corporate entity, which does not have the kind of authority and freedom and God-given rights that a living man or woman has. Examples are state statuses and offices such as those in quotes above
so that's part of why they want you to sign in blue or black. it's more evidence of your consent to a less-than-human status that can be controlled much more easily than a human can legally.
not sure what green represents, but according to wikipedia, chiefs of MI6 and Admirals in the Royal Navy use green ink. I'm not finding it now but I've seen some really good legal cites and case law explaining the legal significance of using different color inks.
I always sign in red, indicating that I have no intention of having myself considered less than human, and not possessing my own blood.
Black's Law Dictionary, 4th ed. -- "Monster"
wikipedia -- "green ink"
Is there any legal rule that green and red inks should only be used by higher government authorities? - Yahoo! Answers India
14th May 2012 From India, Madras
Its important to understand certain things as working and dealing HR and IR matter or any legal documents
for any organization.
some members replied on my stated equerry 'without understanding query and its seriousness' and my query refers to using Red colour Pen for marking 'in-out time with signature by employees' (Employees in General sense)and not 'by employees falling in certain grade'.
Now,no further comment from half knowledge person.
14th May 2012 From India, Ahmadabad
You can make it a rule in the office that all employees have to sign with a blue pen (or a black pen) and that marking with a red pen will not be considered or considered as absent. If this is communicated clearly to all employees (get signature on the letter, etc) then it is valid for you to mark such persons as absent. I am not sure how serious this will get if the matter goes to a court, however.
While there is no law that says a specific color needs to be used, the labour laws does give you the right to make reasonable rules of your own governing method of documentation, attendance, etc. I hope that clears the matter.
Having said that, perhaps you need to talk to the persons who are using red and green pen (I assume there are not too many) and find out why they are doing such a thing. Perhaps you can impress on them the problem faced with red ink. Finding a buy-in from the staff is always better than looking like a authoritarian boss forcing rules down someone's throat (however justified it may be)
15th May 2012 From India, Mumbai
29th August 2012 From India, Delhi
Please share your insights of how to use Etime to maintain such kind of the attendance record for inspector's reference, For the fact that the manual register might seem to be very cumbersome and tedious, your valued suggestions and ideas are very much appreciated.
Looking forward to hear on this.
31st August 2015 From Belgium,