Dinesh Divekar
Business Mentor, Consultant And Trainer
Skhadir
Strategic Business Management Includes Revenue
Hussain Zulfikar
Hris Implementation, Payroll, Recruitment,
Ambition1083
Selling/sales Training For Freshers
Prafulla K Acharya
Freelance Trainer
Arunchitlangia
Trainer - Soft Skills
Aussiejohn
Trainer
Anu_1259
Human Resource Domain
Subhashmalik
Management Consultant
Oyster.se@gmail.com
Soft Skill Training
Sreedhar52
Consultatnt
Prasad S N
Trainer
Symphonya24
Corporate Manager, Hr
+3 Others

Thread Started by #jyotsna.ssharma

I hv been hugely disappointed & embarrassed by a team of \'so called\' Trainers xxxxx'.i hv got their numbr from this site.They r a grp of Highly unprofessional PPL, hu r not true to their commitment. they commit to organize a workshop in my university nd refused just at d time of conduction.
8th May 2012 From India, Udaipur
Sad to know this. The professionalism should be maintained at any cost to survive for long term in any business.
Regards,
Anil Nagpal
Chairman & MD
oyster - SKILLS EMBELLISHED
(a soft skill training company)
9867137753
9th May 2012 From India, Pune
Dear Jyotsna,
What has happened with you was quite bad and I condemn it wholeheartedly.
However, you need to give us little more information? Who were these persons? Training agents or actual training providers i.e. trainers? What measures did you take to segregate wheat from chaff?
I ask this market is awash with training agents. By the gift of the gab they sell the training programmes. Gullible customers like you fall prey to their tall claims.
What reference check you had done for these people?
Make sure that hereafter to deal with training providers directly eliminating these middle-persons. It is not only cost-effective to you but trainers are obviously little more responsible than the agents.
Ok...
Dinesh V Divekar
Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.
9th May 2012 From India, Bangalore
I do not agree with Dinesh. Training companies also have their image and respect to protect and on occasions these training companies go out of the way to ensure that program happens without any hiccups (due to access to alternatives in case of last minute issues). I would suggest Dinesh to not to generalize his statements.
Regards,
Anil Nagpal
9th May 2012 From India, Pune
Dear Mr Anil Nagpal,

Alas you could have read my reply correctly!

I never used the phrase "training companies". My statements are aimed at "training agents". So if you are a training company and not agent then you should not have felt bad about it.

Mr Nagpal, there is benefit of being a freelancer. The benefit is that I get exposure to the working of so many training companies. In my last five years, I have seen good number of wolves in sheep's clothing. So less said the better about them!

In today's Times of India itself there is proof of what I say. There is news about one CEO of training company. He holds management degree from India's highest management institution. Education minister in his surprise visit has caught him in underhand activity. CEO has abandoned his office and ran away.

Till yesterday, that CEO would have preened about his achievements. Not any longer because his underbelly is exposed now. Mr Nagpal there are scores of agents who don't have inch of subject knowledge but pass themselves as training companies. The biggest trouble that is not many trainers are capable to market their knowledge. This very weakness of the trainers comes handy to these agents.

Notwithstanding gloating over the knowledge, in this very forum, how many times training companies come forward and settle queries of the junior members? Are the pearls of wisdom so costly that its value would reduce if shared in public?

For Jyotsna: - Training vendors or otherwise, vendors let you down many times. Production in factories at times came to stand still because of the eccentricity of vendors. Vendor assessment is no easy task and requires lot of maturity.

Simple measure to assess the quality of the vendors is to find out about their (a) physical assets (b) human assets (c) knowledge assets and (d) intellectual properly assets.

While selecting training company of course (c) is quite important. Ask a simple question - what efforts they have made to build their knowledge assets? By the reply you get you will be able to separate the sheep from the goats!

Ok...

Dinesh V Divekar
9th May 2012 From India, Bangalore
Dear Dinesh, It seems you have not read my message correctly. I have suggested "not to generalize the statement". Regards, Anil Nagpal
9th May 2012 From India, Pune
Dear Jyotsna,
training industry in India is still at very infant stage. We do not have any bench marking or grading system, which can help a client gauge the quality of a trainer. So a lot depends on your judgement, which may go wrong due to time & other constrains.
I suggest that next time, whom so ever you hire, please take their references form others in the industry. That will reduce the risk to some extent.
Arun Chitlangia
9th May 2012 From India, Mumbai
This discussion reminds me of Warren Buffet.On Expectation Mr.Buffet says honesty is a very expensive gift ,so do not expect it from cheap people.To be on a safer side Trainer and Training provider must know each other OR do some REsearch to test the depth of the river.There is equal possibility of Trainers absence at the training venue OR Trainer not getting paid for their work on time/not paid at all(in India and abroad)
10th May 2012 From India, Bangalore
Dear Dinesh,
You are exactly right!.
This is a true experience accross the training Industry.
One should be careful and cautious enough. people even do not take phone calls and reply to emails to avoid instead of saying 'NO'.
regards...
10th May 2012 From India, New Delhi
Hi,
It is really bad what has happened.
While identifying the trainers/Institutions get their credentials.
For the trainers/Institutions , please ensure you have the capability to execute what you have committed.
Regards
Sreedharan
Taurusconsulting.
<link no longer exists - removed>
10th May 2012 From India, Bangalore
Maybe this is a good time to remind members that when you deal with external providers of any service such as training, you must maintain a constant dialogue with the provider.
Do not leave things to chance. Touch base regularly with the company to ensure all is on track and if there are any problems, they can be dealt with immediately.
It is possible that things can happen at the last moment, but a reputable company will usually have procedures in place to deal with those situations.
As others have pointed out, you must do your due diligence early and ensure the company you are dealing with is sound and reputable. It comes down to asking the right questions at the very beginning of your research. If your initial gut feeling says something is not right, walk away.
10th May 2012 From Australia, Melbourne
I am in agreement with Mr. Dinesh's observation. The market is full of self proclaimed professional trainers with little or no experience. Training ideally should be an enabler of learning and in the best interest of your organization, it would be desirable to have some reference verification prior to finalising the vendors. Hope you had undertaken this due diligence process.
10th May 2012 From India, Mumbai
HI Jyotsna
What happened was very unfortunate. Seniors have provided very good suggestion for next experience.
However please donít be offended with my feedback.
From your post I can guess that, you are a part of academic industry and was responsible to arrange a training. Your language is casual and incomplete. A humble suggestion for your personal benefit. Please reflect professionalism in your writing. This is not a sms platform nor facebook. There is ample space and no character restriction. So you have the choice of drafting a well thought query. In my opinion I donít find such informal, haphazard incomplete slang English as professional approach.
10th May 2012 From Kuwait, Salmiya
Dear Jyotsna,

I understand your being very upset at some "Trainers XXXXX" who stood you up for a workshop.

You have not mentioned the reasons as to why the "Trainers XXXXX' called off the program at the last moment.

Were the terms of contract in place?

Were there any terms kept pending for finalisation till the last moment?

If a trainer who has been scheduled for a program takes ill at the last moment it's very difficult for any training company or freelance training provider to take remedial steps. Taking remedial steps would also depend on the geographical location of the client. I am sure that Mr. Divekar will agree with me on this point.

Your incomplete information has led people to use a wide brush to pull down training agents and training companies once again. I have yet to understand the terms "Training Agents" and "Training Vendors".

Every training company has a sales team which procures the business for the company, are they being dubbed as "training agents"? Every training company or freelancer knows the importance of maintaining professional decorum and ethics besides the expertise in the subject. Their repeat business totally depends on this.

Prasad
10th May 2012 From India, Mumbai
There are many people who believe that training is an easy job. They think that even attending a couple of training programmes make them trainer. This is one of the reason that standards in training are falling down. There is so much work done extensively in Training that we should really be brainstorming, but alas we are limited to simple data and techniques.
Dinesh has given a overall perspective of the problem Jyotsna has faced.
I also agree with Ajay that rather than generalizing, we can come up with valid data, as Jyotsna mentioned she got the data from here, so I think as HR professionals, we need to maintain our values.
regards
Anuradha
MINDSHARE HR Consultancy Private Limited
11th May 2012 From India, Delhi
Dear Jotsana,

Its simple from the trend and is only because it works fine.

I do not intend to comment on anyone's point of view. Its only my personal opinion.

Companies looking to impart training due to reasons could be many, hire trainers directly without a due diligence and hence face issues which could be avoided in the first place if the channel was right.

We buy homes, the most important thing in life mostly with an assistance from a Realtor, as we trust their judgment and feel safe that we will have someone to walk to if comes an issue.

Why do we not by a shirt from an individual but only a company, because the company offers and promises quality and money return policy.

We would always 100% feel safer to buy a brand new car from a company than of a car with the same price tag from an individual. Its only because we will have company to look up to if something goes wrong, thats a fact. The ultimate fact that no individual spends the kind of Money Companies do in keeping up with the pace in business.

Why not do the same in training? As a Training firm would have multiple options to assist company at any given time than of an individual.

They would assist you in multiple ways possible and take ownership.

Not that individuals do not want to or are unprofessional but only because a Firm definitely has a Contingency plan for the last minute mishap.

Firms have segregated data and are aware of the complication and always are ready with a back up plan.

For example: If a Trainer falls sick or is unavailable in the last moment, they can afford to apologies and walk away, if he might not know anyone else capable for the job OR might give u a reference of someone who only might do the job, in both scenario without taking the responsibility of having the work done.

However, a training firm will most definitely provide you with a replacement as it takes the responsibility to have the work done, and with superlative quality.

I would never buy a house myself as i might not be in a position to do a reference check and would trust a Realtor on that, keeps me safe, saves me time, though i got to pay a little extra for that.
11th May 2012 From India, Delhi
Dear Jyotsna Sharma
I second to all those members who had outspoken ethically.
You know very well that "ALL FIVE FINGERS ARE NOT THE SAME"
Who gave you right to call xyz trainers as "UNPROFESSIONAL PEOPLE" without giving adequate/specific/relevant information. No one knows the commercial terms between you and xyz trainers. If you had done you homework, i am sure you wouldn't have experienced such situation
Before you point out your fingers towards others, try to realize by evaluating yourself as "how true professional you are in your domain". Remember, blaming or complaining about others is a EASY JOB.
Share more information to prove them guilty else withdraw your thread.
With profound regards

11th May 2012 From India, Chennai
Dear Mr. Nagpal,

I second to Mr. Dinesh as i am a contributing member and had addressed many issues(threads) posted in this forum.

I haven't seen trainers sharing their knowledge or responding to those queries posted in this forum. Its not that easy for anyone to become a TRAINER without having relevant INDUSTRY EXPERIENCE. By just attending TRAINING PROGRAMMES, one cannot project him/herself as a TRAINER unless he had served an organisation,offered his services or better solution to the problem faced by the management or any employee irrespective of his position in the hierarchy while analyzing the organisation culture, standards and lot more.

I do agree with Mr. Dinesh that, many training companies and agents are just in the process of collecting List of TRAINERS and modules they can deliver as they are promoting various programmes without the knowledge of trainers. Training companies and agents are mere MEDIATORS and very few training companies are managed by TRAINERS itself.

Marketing strategies alone cannot solve the problems/issues faced by various organisations. I am aware of the information to be presented for catering xyz requirements when any organisation calls for training their staff rather just delivering something which is of NO USE. How many training companies and agents has got access to the trainers information presented in various training programmes? Only those who are PASSIONATE and PROFESSIONALS had access to such information only when they interact with trainers in various forums like citehr, linkedin and many more..

I am very straight forward while submitting my comments because i believe in speaking FACTS/TRUTH and TRUTH is always BITTER.

With profound regards


11th May 2012 From India, Chennai
Dear Madam,
Good evening!
Please write directly to us the Type of workshop which you wanted to get organised, Name of university, Objective, Terms & Focus... will see How Best It can be managed Now.
It is better to workout a solution NOW!
Cheers & Best Wishes,
Rajesh Satyal
9810210690

12th May 2012 From India
Madam , Kindly do not use SMS language on this forum of highly respected and professinal personalities. Regards , Aspirations
12th May 2012 From India, Bangalore
Last moment cancellation of one promised training program happens at times though very rarely. Causes- The main faculty becomes sick, or plane or train cancellation suddenly, or many other situations beyond the capacity of the conducting organization to arrange the conduct of the program as promised.

In such situation a new date is suggested to suit both the organizations. Immediate communication and information with apology must be conveyed in such situation.

During my 27 years of conducting programmes all over India on behalf of National Productivity Council and same activity for last over 10 years after so called retirement, I have come accross such last moment cancellation may be for two or three times. The organizations realised the difficulty and reschedulled the program at a later mutually convenient date. Thus we need not blame one agency for such rare failure.

Er Prafulla K Acharya, Ph.D. in HRD & Mgt(IIT-Kgp), Director and Chief Faculty, Pragyan Productivity Center(lifelong Learning Provider):PPC(LLP), Bhubaneswar,Functioning from Bhubaneswar, Visakhapatnam and Chennai in India and Dallas(Texas) in USA. , , cell-09437022040
13th May 2012 From India, Bhubaneswar
Dear All,
I am working in a pharma company as HR Executive from last 2.5 yrs.I have started one skill upgradation program in which we have selected 25 key personnels who lacks the basic managerial skill.But there are some employee who are not interested to attend the session and these 6-7 employees are the most destructive part of our company.So can you pls help me out how should I convince them to attend the training program without taking the help of top management.
Waiting for your response.
With Regards
Deepika Kamatkar
14th May 2012 From India, Nagpur
Deepika,
Please start a new thread with your question as it does not relate to the subject matter in this thread.
That will enable other members to focus solely on your question and hopefully provide some suggestions.
Thanks.
14th May 2012 From Australia, Melbourne
There is a specific solution to your query and you will succeed in convincing your employees. For further solution to your query, kind start a new thread as requested by Mr. John.
Kindly email me the link to your thread.
With profound regards

14th May 2012 From India, Chennai
Dear John,
Can you please provide us with your contact details as I need to discuss something (but not on this public forum)? We are a training company in India. My e-mail ID is
Regards,
Anil Nagpal
Chairman & MD
oyster
14th May 2012 From India, Pune
Dear all,
Thank you for sparing your valuable time..that was the first and last time when i committed such a mistake.
now I'll take great care before selecting any one for my university.
Thanx & Regards
15th May 2012 From India, Udaipur
Dear Ms. Jyotsna Sharma
We should never blame anyone for our own mistakes......We humans are born to make mistakes and we must learn from them. There is no point in repeating them followed by deep regrets.
Consider this as a "LESSON FOR YOU".
Your frustration is spoiling your IMAGE as you had termed some professionals as TOM, DICK & HARRY. Learn to control your anger and work on those procedures or checklist before you organise a programme/event.
Also you are using SMS LANGUAGE. One of the member has suggested you to avoid it. Do you have any idea about the READERS PERCEPTIONS from your POST(YOUR IMAGE)? Since i had been studying HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY OF BEHAVIOUR, i found that, you are reflecting a NEGATIVE ATTITUDE(portrait) through your post. Moreover, you are holding a reputed designation in a UNIVERSITY.
At times OVER-CONFIDENCE can turn everything upside down. Be PRACTICAL in LIFE.
With profound regards

15th May 2012 From India, Chennai
Dear Mr. Prasad
yes i was in constant touch with those people, they send me their profile,the financial part, the topics they will be dealing with, everything. they claimed to be associated with a well known MNC. i conversed with them through e-mails & telephone,though never met in personal. and just a the time of conduction, first they stopped responding to my phone calls and then bluntly denied.
15th May 2012 From India, Udaipur
such response from any training provider is unbelievable. With only your reporting of the development one should not take any bad conclusion about the training provider, agent on vender. Every training providing company is a vender of many user organizations. We have many misconceptions about external training providers. The market is flooded with trainers and training providing organizations where as user organizations are very limited. Thus any trainer tries to give best service and to get repeat business they try to satisfy the customer by maintaining good relation.
Thus one should not take the alleagation here as fully true.
Er Prafulla K Acharya, over 40 years experience as a trainer cell-09437022040
17th May 2012 From India, Bhubaneswar
Madam Jyotsana Sharma , With due respect to you , kindly do not use sms language concerning this forum
Secondly unless you name the offending trainers / fraudsters , there is no pint in mentioning it . Kindly do so.
Hope you will enlighten everyone about your forgettable experience and all fellow members will be careful or
vigilant about such so called TRAINERS.
Thanks and regards ,
Aspirations
6th December 2012 From India, Bangalore
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