Dear John
You have hit the bulls eye, I too suspected the same, ideally, we should not answer such questions with direct answers, but instead give them answers in such manner that they are forced to research more on the topic. Or we should completely avoid the post itself. But under in any case should avoid free information methodology
Regards
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
575You have hit the bulls eye, I too suspected the same, ideally, we should not answer such questions with direct answers, but instead give them answers in such manner that they are forced to research more on the topic. Or we should completely avoid the post itself. But under in any case should avoid free information methodology
Regards
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Dear Mr. Anil Arora
Once we are rising some question to the open forum then we must have the empty glass mentality to acquire knowledge from the raised question and only we can pour or fill the empty glass and the discussion in this thread is going like pouring in the filled glass which cannot accept and retain the poured contents.
If we have the habit of reading between the lines then it is not possible to discuss and there only hot arguments will take place.
Let us take the chance/opportunity to mend ourselves and learn something new today onwards
All the best.
From India, Kumbakonam
Once we are rising some question to the open forum then we must have the empty glass mentality to acquire knowledge from the raised question and only we can pour or fill the empty glass and the discussion in this thread is going like pouring in the filled glass which cannot accept and retain the poured contents.
If we have the habit of reading between the lines then it is not possible to discuss and there only hot arguments will take place.
Let us take the chance/opportunity to mend ourselves and learn something new today onwards
All the best.
From India, Kumbakonam
Hahaha... folk u r not correct.... If u think all the calculations are done by the system automatically then u r in correct. all system out puts a partial and we HRs validate the output and normalise the payouts. if that is not the case each and every entry in the system will have a same hike % irrespective of performance.. Do u think is this happening in ur org?
we do follow the standards while assingning the hike rate based on the performance and feedback from the immediate reporting officials. we do see N number of parameters. The automatic s/w gives only the raw data my dear friend.
From India, Bangalore
we do follow the standards while assingning the hike rate based on the performance and feedback from the immediate reporting officials. we do see N number of parameters. The automatic s/w gives only the raw data my dear friend.
From India, Bangalore
DEAR FRIENDS,
Forget about weather hr is waste of money or not. Simply answer what is the role of father and mother in your life? You come across news that babies are abandon and shifted to children's home. What would have happened if our parents would have taken same liberty? weather to maintain law and order police are required? what would happened if police are on strike? Are you sure that your children's on which you are spending so much money will take care of you in future . what would happen if you are enough wealthy and you are asking them to learn in municipal schools.
We are not living in idle world were masters are capable of doing all tasks.
Man,Machine,Material,Money are important ingredients are business. to take care of Machine engineers are required ,Material required for production, money required for operation and man required to execute desire results and to take care of man HR is must.
so think before making any statement which undermine any profession.
From India, Mumbai
Forget about weather hr is waste of money or not. Simply answer what is the role of father and mother in your life? You come across news that babies are abandon and shifted to children's home. What would have happened if our parents would have taken same liberty? weather to maintain law and order police are required? what would happened if police are on strike? Are you sure that your children's on which you are spending so much money will take care of you in future . what would happen if you are enough wealthy and you are asking them to learn in municipal schools.
We are not living in idle world were masters are capable of doing all tasks.
Man,Machine,Material,Money are important ingredients are business. to take care of Machine engineers are required ,Material required for production, money required for operation and man required to execute desire results and to take care of man HR is must.
so think before making any statement which undermine any profession.
From India, Mumbai
If you don't know the real meaning of HR manager, then don't give comment.
You should know the HR Directors are getting salary in crores in India and no company is full to pay such huge money.
From India, Bhubaneswar
You should know the HR Directors are getting salary in crores in India and no company is full to pay such huge money.
From India, Bhubaneswar
Hello Octavious!!
You are very vehement about your views on HR Managers. Quite obviously you have had some bad experiences.
I have dealt with men and material throuhout my service career. I strongly believe that if you look after your men and material nothing can prevent you being successful.
The functions of HR are manifold. Please do not look at it myopically as 'Payroll Management', which as someone aptly brought out can be admirably performed by an accountant with a simple computer and appropriate software. Yet, there are problems relating to this function. We humans are very clever. Very innovative and when we see opportunity we very conveniently discard our scruples - all for personal benefit. Simple manipulations can be carried out to deprive people of their dues. The HR manager is a guardian of the interests of workers.
In-fact the HR Manager can be likened to a mother in a family whose functions are the welfare of the family as against those of the father who brings in the daily bread. The father has his compulsions and external pressures and may be callous and demanding at home. after all he has been at the receiving end all day while at work. Can't blame him. Yet to keep the family intact and allocate available resources evenly it is the mother who stands up for her children. And the father has to accept her commands. If he doesn't the entire family suffers.
In any organisation, the role of HR would encompass, amongst other functions:-
1. Recruitment.
2. Training and Professional Development of individuals.
3. Welfare of Personnel. This has very wide ranging concerns.
(a) Pay and Emoluments.
(b) Promotional Prospects.
(c) Leave.
(d) Relief.
(e) Health.
(f) Dealing with Labour Issues.
4. Dealing with problems of Unions.
So, HR Managers are meant to do far more than what can be expected from an accountant. They are the backbone of the organisation. So, please don't scoff at them as inconsequential. I agree that if the owner of the company uses them as tools to exercise his dictatorial fancies they can perform a negative role. But isn't that true of any functionary in any organisation?!
Finally I'd like to say that let not your past poor experiences cloud your future vision.
With warm regards to one and all.
Aye.
Colonel Gahlot
Proprietor, 'TRURECRUIT'
9810081197
From India, Delhi
You are very vehement about your views on HR Managers. Quite obviously you have had some bad experiences.
I have dealt with men and material throuhout my service career. I strongly believe that if you look after your men and material nothing can prevent you being successful.
The functions of HR are manifold. Please do not look at it myopically as 'Payroll Management', which as someone aptly brought out can be admirably performed by an accountant with a simple computer and appropriate software. Yet, there are problems relating to this function. We humans are very clever. Very innovative and when we see opportunity we very conveniently discard our scruples - all for personal benefit. Simple manipulations can be carried out to deprive people of their dues. The HR manager is a guardian of the interests of workers.
In-fact the HR Manager can be likened to a mother in a family whose functions are the welfare of the family as against those of the father who brings in the daily bread. The father has his compulsions and external pressures and may be callous and demanding at home. after all he has been at the receiving end all day while at work. Can't blame him. Yet to keep the family intact and allocate available resources evenly it is the mother who stands up for her children. And the father has to accept her commands. If he doesn't the entire family suffers.
In any organisation, the role of HR would encompass, amongst other functions:-
1. Recruitment.
2. Training and Professional Development of individuals.
3. Welfare of Personnel. This has very wide ranging concerns.
(a) Pay and Emoluments.
(b) Promotional Prospects.
(c) Leave.
(d) Relief.
(e) Health.
(f) Dealing with Labour Issues.
4. Dealing with problems of Unions.
So, HR Managers are meant to do far more than what can be expected from an accountant. They are the backbone of the organisation. So, please don't scoff at them as inconsequential. I agree that if the owner of the company uses them as tools to exercise his dictatorial fancies they can perform a negative role. But isn't that true of any functionary in any organisation?!
Finally I'd like to say that let not your past poor experiences cloud your future vision.
With warm regards to one and all.
Aye.
Colonel Gahlot
Proprietor, 'TRURECRUIT'
9810081197
From India, Delhi
Hi Friends,
I went through the arguments and counter-arguments for and against the topic.
No role in an organisation is waste. Much depends upon how the organisation is harnessing the strengths of the role for the organisation's growth.
It is no more HR. i.e. It is no more Human Resource. In the latest context, we call it HCM i.e. Human Capital Management. In other words human being is no more a resource but it should be treated like other Capital Intensive investment like machinery or equipment for enhancing the growth of the organisation. Therefore, HR Department, who is involved in handling human capital right from Recruitment to Retirement, cannot be brushed aside with a sweeping statement. I only presume that somebody has lot of time to throw a spanner in the works and watch the tamasha brewing in the Cite HR !
If there is difference of opinion about the effect or value or contribution of HR in a particular organisation, then this matter should not be discussed, particular in a HR-focussed portal, as someone has mentioned above.
People who talk like that do not have any idea about the Role of HR in an organisation. Let not such people display their shallow knowledge in such a public domain !
It is like talking in a Hospital, Doctors are a waste ! Ask the guy to come and chat wit me, who has spent 22 years in the field of HR, out of 41 years of total work experience and I will give him a run for his money ! hahahaha
NK Sundaram
From India
I went through the arguments and counter-arguments for and against the topic.
No role in an organisation is waste. Much depends upon how the organisation is harnessing the strengths of the role for the organisation's growth.
It is no more HR. i.e. It is no more Human Resource. In the latest context, we call it HCM i.e. Human Capital Management. In other words human being is no more a resource but it should be treated like other Capital Intensive investment like machinery or equipment for enhancing the growth of the organisation. Therefore, HR Department, who is involved in handling human capital right from Recruitment to Retirement, cannot be brushed aside with a sweeping statement. I only presume that somebody has lot of time to throw a spanner in the works and watch the tamasha brewing in the Cite HR !
If there is difference of opinion about the effect or value or contribution of HR in a particular organisation, then this matter should not be discussed, particular in a HR-focussed portal, as someone has mentioned above.
People who talk like that do not have any idea about the Role of HR in an organisation. Let not such people display their shallow knowledge in such a public domain !
It is like talking in a Hospital, Doctors are a waste ! Ask the guy to come and chat wit me, who has spent 22 years in the field of HR, out of 41 years of total work experience and I will give him a run for his money ! hahahaha
NK Sundaram
From India
I am not agree with this …word ….Nurse can give a medicine or injection to patient. But why Doctor is required in Hospital ? Nurse can manage the Hospital ? …………………Why we are appointing Doctor? …. Why we are taking treatment from Doctor ? Because he can do the right diagnosis and treatment ,his efficiency is more than a Nurse ……………….so HR is a like a Doctor ….account person can do the HR work but he can’t implement the HR practices and work force. Ask one account / production person to settle the employee dispute. Never he will become success, because he do not have Legal knowledge ……HR is a driver of the organization …without driver we cannot run the vehicle……………So don’t blame to HR ………. Can anyone do the Credit ,Debit ,Data entry ,salary calculation job ,but thing is to Manage the 5 M is important it is not a easy work …………………… Some time Account person is unable to manage 1M (Money ) and production person is unable to manage 1 M (Machine )…just think how HR can manage the 5 M…onetime. So My dear…………… HR is required in an Organization. He is a part of todays Business…………………….
Regards
Krishna Naik
From India, Mangaluru
Regards
Krishna Naik
From India, Mangaluru
Pals,
Let us keep it simple.
People who was shown boots from their organization will always go with the above mentioned statement.
Seems there are many in the loop.
Let us not encourage this topic started by one such person. We will retain HR's value.
Cheers HR.
From India, Madras
Let us keep it simple.
People who was shown boots from their organization will always go with the above mentioned statement.
Seems there are many in the loop.
Let us not encourage this topic started by one such person. We will retain HR's value.
Cheers HR.
From India, Madras
Dear nagabajjuri,
The question of judging HR arises when HR is there is system, so for that first instance HR is required.
HR deals with Minds, Behaviors, Culture, attributes of individual so in any company it is HR who know employee better than any one else. so HR require
Any one can take care of payroll, PMS blaa blaa blaa but for doing that accurately you need a HR Professional who understanding process n procedure in line with company and its employee, so again HR is require.
For any perks and recognitions plan out, recreational activities, ER, Engagement activities HR require.
To check whether people are adhering to policies and procedure HR is required.
If you are joining new company even for that, HR has to give your BGV about your conduct, so again HR is required.
IF SAID LOT MORE THING HR IS REQUIRED, BUT I WILL KEEP THIS TO SHORT TEXT.
Even to answer your funny question HR is required.
So, if you consider Organization as a human body, HR is like Spine.
With out which you cannot even standing.
Hope you got importance of HR.
From India, Hyderabad
The question of judging HR arises when HR is there is system, so for that first instance HR is required.
HR deals with Minds, Behaviors, Culture, attributes of individual so in any company it is HR who know employee better than any one else. so HR require
Any one can take care of payroll, PMS blaa blaa blaa but for doing that accurately you need a HR Professional who understanding process n procedure in line with company and its employee, so again HR is require.
For any perks and recognitions plan out, recreational activities, ER, Engagement activities HR require.
To check whether people are adhering to policies and procedure HR is required.
If you are joining new company even for that, HR has to give your BGV about your conduct, so again HR is required.
IF SAID LOT MORE THING HR IS REQUIRED, BUT I WILL KEEP THIS TO SHORT TEXT.
Even to answer your funny question HR is required.
So, if you consider Organization as a human body, HR is like Spine.
With out which you cannot even standing.
Hope you got importance of HR.
From India, Hyderabad
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7 Rules of Excellence for HR Managers.doc