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Dear HR friends,
I need your suggestion to help one of my friend who is a mechanical engineer working for an engineering company. His company is planning to send him abroad for one week on a condition that he has to sign a 3 year bond for not quitting. If he resigns within 3 years, he has to pay Rs 3 lakhs to the company. Now he is in a dilemma. The company is not giving any guarantee on increment during the 3 years. Also his current salary is not good and he cannot stay in this company for 3 more years. Since he doesn't have an alternate job, he is forced to accept the bond. In my view his company is playing this trick to retain people. Need your suggestions on how to tackle this situation. he is having one more week time to decide on this.
Regards - Ramesh
15th June 2007 From Singapore, Singapore
Hi Ramesh,
Very simple, He has to sign a bond only if he agrees to go right... So better tell the management that he is not interested in any foreign tours.They would look out for some other option..
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Kumar M
15th June 2007 From India
Hiee...
If you want to really fight it out..here's the flick...
I know its bit of risk but here it is...
One of my friend has tried and succeeded also...
the bond is of three years...but if in case in the bond the company has not mentioned that it has to be payed by so and so date...u can do away with it...pay one rupee each day....
Vinod Vijapur
15th June 2007 From India, Mumbai
Hi all,
Thanks for the suggestions. Sorry i did not tell you about 2 more points
1) If he rejects this offer, management may treat him badly because he is giving an indirect hint that he is not going to stay there for long.
2) In case if he breaks the bond his company may not give his salaray & other dues or may not approve his PF request etc..
Sorry I am making it more complex. But I know CiteHR team is capable of providing a solid solution
Regards- Ramesh
15th June 2007 From Singapore, Singapore
Dear Mr Ramesh,
Greetings!
Regarding PF, Company cannot hold his account. If the employee have his PF number, he can transfer his account when he go to new company.
Better ask ur friend not to sign a bond rather than he can work in a bad situation and useless company and side by ask him to search for a good job.
Rgds,
John N
15th June 2007 From India, Madras
according to me ur friend should not accept this offer... its too risky toaccept.. if in future he desperatly wants to chnage his job then wat?.. wat wil he do?... paying one rupee a day as one of my friend suggested but thats not gonna work always right...
the most imp thing for ur friend is to enjoy the work that he is doin...
he should find out what he is passionate bout and then find someone to pay for it!
thats what i believe...
these contracts and bonds have a very 'not feel good' factor attached to them....
good luck to ur friend!
cheers!
Shraddha
15th June 2007 From India, Bangalore
Hi,
As one of our friend told, he/she should not accpet the abroad training. Better he can stay in a bad situtation for a certain period hope by that time he will get a good change then he can go for that right.
I can understand practically it is difficult by to some extent we have to manage.
Cheers!!!
sivaranjani sriram
15th June 2007 From India, Madras
hi,
I think he should clear the terms and condition with the company, if he does not left the company for 3 years, whether company will pay him 3lacs. Many company are following this procedure.
Byeeeeeeeee
15th June 2007 From India, Mumbai
Hi PR,
I read the replies to your mail. Nobody seems to be worrying about the value addition that foreign training is bound to bring to the individual primarily and later for the company.
The extension of contract is quite natural if the benefits that arise out of this training cannot be immediately quantified.
It is advisable to opt for the training after negotiating with the management either in terms of salary increase or reduction of time period.
Regards,
Harikeyel
15th June 2007 From India, Thiruvananthapuram
If in case your friend is being forced to sign the bond, he can ask for time to get the bond studied by his lawyer before signing.
If the company readily agrees, the risk would be lesser. And if the company is reluctant to agree, then your friend will have a better standing when he refuses to sign the bond.
Regards
Ryan
15th June 2007 From India, Mumbai
hi Harikeyel...
i agree to ur opinion but the value addition the foreign training is goin to bring is not gauranteed... thats y i think its too big to risk 3 years unless n until he negotiates to reduce the time period...
16th June 2007 From India, Bangalore
Dear Mr. Ramesh,
First of all, I would like to tell you that unless it is a two way bond i.e. something given by the company in reward. I suggest that your friend should definitely go to foriegn tour. There are several advantages to it.
1. His resume would be strengthened if he mentions foreign tour.
2. He can demand much more than what he is getting due to foreign tour.
To tell your frankly, in the legal court no bond has any stand on it.
Santosh Iyer
16th June 2007 From India, Pune
Hi
I think it is not advisable to sign the bond. Yes training is important and good but at what cost. The company cannot make people to work like "bandhua mazdoor".
Your friend is not happy with the company then why cannot he look for other options outside the company. With Indian job market so volatile, so definitely he can find a job for himself.
Have a nice week end ahead !!!!
Bye
Rajeev
16th June 2007 From India, Mumbai
Hi,
In today's market condition employers will try to bring in curbs to ensure that attrition rate is brought down and that the trained manpower is retained.In this partcular case it is the need of the company to send individual for training. In a large number of cases such training is job specific and does not add value to individual for career growth.
Employees have to learn to negotiate after weighing all pros and cons. If after carrying out an objective assessment, it is found that you are going to be a looser, it better to say no in a forthright manner.In any case one sided contracts are always bad in the eyes of law.
Brigadier Ashwani Kumar
16th June 2007 From India, Delhi
Dear All
I agree with Harikeyal.Abroad training will defenitely add value and it will help him for the rest of his career. For that he has to compensate some thing.He has to consider the expenses that may have to incur for such training if he is paying it from his pocket
Nasir
16th June 2007 From India, Thiruvananthapuram
PLS NOTE THAT THESE KIND OF EMPLOYMENT BONDS HAVE GOT NO SANCTITY IN THE INDIAN LABOUR COURT......THEY ARE TURNED NULL AND VOID.....IF TRIED IN THE COURT OF LAW...COMPANY CANNOT ENFORCE A PERSON TO BE WITH ITS COMPANY FOR A SPECIFIED DURATION.......HE CAN AVAIL THE HOLIDAYS ENJOY AND COME BACK......BUT HE NEED TO ENSURE ALL HIS PAYMENT AND ACCOUNTS GET SETTLED BEFORE HE LEAVES..IN THE SENSE THAT PF COMPANY CANNOT STOP HE CAN SIGN THE FORM FROM A GAZETTED OFFICER AND SUBMIT TO PF AUTHORITIES BUT HE SHOULD KNOW HIS PF NUMBER.......SO ONE SHOULD NOT WORRY ...NO EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT IS LEGALLY BINDING IN INDIA NO COURT CAN ENDORSE OR SUPPORT SUCH THING.....
19th June 2007 From United Kingdom
i really agree with this..
there should be a broader canvas to be seen. if the company has chose him for the training its a proud, and the training will enhance in the professional development.
your friend should negotiate in time frame rather to loose the big opportunity.
thanks
Diwesh :P
19th June 2007 From India, Mumbai
Hi Do not offer this because the bond would be only applicable once he comes back to india. What if he does not???????? Rgds, Shiva
19th June 2007 From India, Pune
Dear Team,
Many thanks for all your kind suggestions. I shared your views with my friend it helped him to negotiate a win-win strategy with his employer.Unfortunately his employer not ready to commit anything on my friend's growth opportunities. Finally my friend refused to accept the offer & we have to wait & see the consequences.
As some of members suggested, the objective was not to give training & enhace his capabilities.They are using this strategy from last few years & my friend has seen the fate of all those sent to abroad in the past.
Thanks & Regards - Ramesh
19th June 2007 From Singapore, Singapore
Hi,
Really this is a hectic situation. It can be happened rarely.
I gone through all the advises which are made by some professionals.
Finally, i am coming into a conclusion that it had better to read the agreement line by line so that we may find out some of the loopholes of the agreement. Then we consult a good HR professional / Advocate to solve this.
Acutally, once we commit any agreement / bond, we have to stick on the rules and regulations. But, in this issue it was happend in the critical conditions.
Any have, it is not encouraged by the Labour Laws in India and it had better to go for consult an Advocate.
With all best wishes,
Krishna
20th June 2007 From India, Hyderabad
hi i m also facing this probs in my organisation. Do you have nay suggestion?? deepak malik
20th June 2007 From India, Pune
In our company already one case is in court because one person had resigned during the bond period.
How can you say their is no bond in India.??????
Have you confirmed it with any advocatec for that?
Over to you
Pranita
20th June 2007 From India, Delhi
Pranita,
Its not that the case will not be heard in court. It means that the court will not rule in favour of the organization unless the bond content follows the principle of equal justice.
The prinicple of equal (equitable is the word - i think) justice is covered in commerce education in college (Business Law) and also in the MBA / PGD course which should have had Law as part of the course content.
Its surprising how many HR professionals think of incorporating bonds where this basic principle of law is not followed. Sometimes, appointment letters are also drafted which totally do not favour the employees, and they are signed because people have this fear of not getting jobs / employment.
Regards
Ryan
20th June 2007 From India, Mumbai
Hi
I am a new member to the site. This is nice to watch prfessionals exchanging views. thanks to it.
As of me concerned on this particular sub, your friend has to understand that the life is to take risk. If he is really interested in taking the foreign tour, then he may have to repay the benefits to the company. If not he has to try out something else. he may not be able satisfy all his need.
Moreover, as of cases, an individual can not be restricted by a bond without proper grounds. Ask your friend to discuss this with his hr person.
After all negotiation makes results.
wish him success..
soman
20th June 2007 From India, Madras
Many companies that send employees abroad for training, make them sign a bond similar to the one you mentioned.
I know of many employees that have not taken up offers made by the company for the very same reason that you stated.
There are two ways at looking at it.
A- the company may actually be playing a trick on you. or
B- the company genuinely wants to invest in you and upskill you to perform better at your work.
If your friend is convinced that he would be quitting the company, then I advise against him taking up the training.
Ralston Coelho
www.ralstonraz.blogspot.com
20th June 2007 From India, Mumbai
Hi guys,

As i gather from the mail...it Unable that the company is not good and it is forcing its employees to go abroad for a week and sign a bond for 3 years.

No organization would send someone just for a week unless and until its really critical as they will be incurring about USD2000 for this whole trip. So if your friend is being sent for this assignment then he should be proud that he is the chosen one and the organization has faith in him that he can accomplish the job which is waiting there in the US to be done.

If your friend really feels that the company is not good and there is no growth for him there, then why is he sticking around and not looking for a new job?? Currently the market is so dynamic that he will easily get a job of his choice. If he has already tried and not getting a new job, then he needs to do a honest self-assessment.

Also, he has mentioned that employees who have go to US from this company are facing some problem. So what sort of problem are these??

There are lot of questions arising to me atleast so you guys should sit down and weigh all the pros and cons (a proper debate among yourself) and then decide. If he has a good rapport with his manager then he can voice his fears/concerns and sort out the tangle.

I hope this gives a new perspective to view and weigh a situation and arrive at a practical solution.

Warm regards

Roopa.
20th June 2007
you know, the supreme court has declared a case void..where a female employee of Amercian Express Bank was sent to another country for extensive training, the ladt signed a bond..worth lakhs of rupees, when she came after training, she worked for some time and then joined another better assignment. The employee lodged a plea into court which finally reached to SC.
you can search SC cases at www.judis.nic.in by just entering appropriate seach words.
regards,
Umesh Chaudhary
(welcomeumesh@yahoo.com)
21st June 2007 From India, Delhi
Hi
As per my view, ur friend shud not accept this offer.
And tell him to be very clear that he is not interested to go abroad.
So, they anyhow have to search for another alternative.
And meanwhile, pls tell ur friend to search for another job, as this wud always create a problem for him, and may come back in some different way.
Thanks and Regards,
Jennifer ISaac
21st June 2007 From India, Mumbai
Well, I expect a sense of maturity and intelligence from my fellow HR Professionals.

Have empathy. Put yourself in the shoes of your employer and they examine, what he is doing.

Do you know know how much does it cost to send an employee for onsite project? You cann't have "tricks" to reduce attrition but you need to formulate "strategies". All big companies have this strategy. Like TCS, they send all their employees (Technical or Finctional) to USA for six months. Only people who serves the organization for 18 months are eligable and one is asked to sign a bond for two years. This is fair-enough.

Another, good company send their employees for SAP Training to Siemens, and they also take bond for one year.

Here, none of us is doing any charity. If the company is doing something for their employers...they want something in return.

Today, we say that there is no career and growth in BPO's. How it can be? Companies can give you career or growth, only if you are giving stability and consistent production.

Look at the bigger picture.

Regards

Sanjeev Himachali

(BLOG: http://sanjeevhimachali.blogspot.com/ and <link outdated-removed> )
22nd June 2007 From India, Mumbai
Dear Sanjeev,
Let us compare apple to apple. If companies forming win -win strategies, then both employer and employee get benefitted. The company which I am talking is not belong to that category. Their intention is very clear. Also there are lot of evidence in the past that , the employees who sighned the bond were treated badly compare to others. I have great respect to companies which you mentioned. The culture & values varies from organization to organization and It is very difficult to explain them unless we experience it.
Hope you agree with me - Regards, Ramesh
22nd June 2007 From Singapore, Singapore
I agree to Sanjeev Sir,
there is always a cost attached to training.and if we look at Employers point of view, foreign country training is expensive and a headache as today with the job options and offer letters in every employees pockets ,it becomes a tiresome job to let them stay on.
The present situation is interesting,but the person involved has to be sure with his future,if he doesnt see growth in the company,he should decline the offer and try to search new options.But if the training wud add on to his skill set and he is capable enuf to apply them then i believe success wont be a factor even if the company doesnt promise any increments.
This is wat i can say from my side,juz being a student.
Thanks
Regards
Aanchal
22nd June 2007 From India, Mumbai
Hi Sanjeev,
I completely agree with you. Today the employees never miss a chance of blasting their employers. There is no loyalty, no guarantee that someone who has joined the orgn today may be there tomorrow. The churning in the IT/ITES is so high inspite of companies going all out to do their best for the employees.
If you ask the employee to sit in the employers chair and take a decision they are not ready to do it as they know that they are wrong and can't justify their action.
I agree that there are a few organisations who promote unhealthy and unethical practices.
Employers and employees need to be far sighted rather than looking for short term accomplishments.
Roopa.
22nd June 2007
Ramesh, be practical...if the company is so bad that it cannot give increment to this employee...then why will they send him for onsite project??
They are investing in your friend, because he is a good resource. They want to give him international (onsite experience) and certainly they want to retain him. If he is no good, why will they spend so much on him?
Regards
Sanjeev Himachali
22nd June 2007 From India, Mumbai
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