Legal Analyst, Hrm
Branch Manager - Operations
Rahul Sethi
Recruitment/talent Acquisition, Career Counselling
Raj Kumar Hansdah
Shrm, Od, Hrd, Pms
V. Balaji
Ir & Hr
Asst. General Manager - Hr
+2 Others

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Dear All,
In our company employees get a 500 rupees fine for each nondisciplinary deed(example mobile ringing during office hours,sitting in others cabin,going to the floors where they don't have access,leaving papers on the table after the office hours,forgetting papers on the table after the office hours,forgetting to switch off the light).This amount will be deducted from salary as salary advance.
Do you think is it ethical?Please share your views

Dear Ms. George
It would be easy to look at the situation in proper perspective, If you can kindly answer the following :
What is the average salary of the employees subjected to this extra-ordinary punishment ??
What is the likelihood of an employee committing two or more such misconducts in a month ??
Warm regards.

Dear Ms. George,
It is surely unethical, though you may consider the average salary or perks. The salary is for executing their efforts, physically, or mentally.
Two things I could understand: -
(1) You will have high attrition rate over a very small time, following this. Be geared up as a full time recruiter instead.
(2) You are very ethical, you cannot withstand this, as a custodian of HR and ethics. Kindly start for a look out, as by your message, I am able to read that you will not be able to convince your Management for a change.
All the message is quite ok, but the methodology of punishing is not good. You may only appeal your employees to refrain from all these.
Good luck.
God bless you.

Ms George,
The practice is highly unethical. The head of the organisation seems to be behaving like a
headmaster of the Yesteryears Schools with the philosophy of 'Spare the rod and spoil the child'
What next after deducting fines ?? Caning ??
I agree with Capable. very soon you will have a horde of people leaving the company.
It is not just about the money. It is the Negative attitude a boss has towards his team which is a cause for concern. I am very sure, there must be several such issues, which are not mentioned here.
There are better ways of achieving the refinement in people. You can see this spectrum and decide on your further strategy.

Thanks for the replies..I completely agree with capable.We have a high attrition rate and as of now I need to concentrate my major portion of my time on recruitment.But none of our employees seems to be happy.Ours is a very big organization,where in we have 10000+labours and 500+professional staff.And we have high attrition rate among the staff.I have tried to convince our chairman,as I'm member of the management.But the result was worst,he told me that I am against the company policies.
As Mr.Riyaz said,now all our employees are having a negative attitude towards management.But nobody raises their voice as they are scared of the practice of immediate termination.
I am really demotivated.But as an HR I should not be.I have only 2 years experience,that too in this company itself.So I'm confused is it real HR what I'm doing???Should I continue my career with this company??

Ms George,

Thanks for expressing your situation with us....BUT I have few queries before you :

1. Do the employees have the habit of leaving the lights on ??

2. If you keep your mobile in silent mode, how does anyone know (Normally it is a rule in most of the companies to keep the mobile in silent mode and in some companies the employees are even asked to submit their mobile before entering the cabins,they can unleash it while going back home) ??

3. How do you access the floors for which you have no access permissions ?? and moreover Why ??

4. Dont you keep your desk clean ?? In most of the offices, these things are highly noted down...You people are lucky that you have been instructed to do so...for people who are not been told but are been silently noticed...its worst case...What do you say ??

Ms george, If u give away your house for Rent and strictly say them that you need to keep the walls clean, you need to keep garden clean, you need keep the bathroom clean, you need to switch off the verandah light while going back to sleep...otherwise a fine will be charged...

From the very next day...they will listen to all the things asked by you as cleanliness is next to godliness and they wont run away or be scared coz they have been asked to be clean...the person will be foolish if he runs away..

Whatever i had in my mind...I discussed with you...there are many worst situation than are lucky to be in a well mannered and disciplined company :)

Congratulation for that :)

People Power Team.

Dear Mr George
I understand your situation.
The company makes policy for certain reasons.
Once we step to owners shoes we know how difficult for him to take such decisions.
He has started the company not so easily and when now 10000+labours and 500+professional staffs are there imagine what are the other pressures also he has which we do not even tell others.
Employees are working and they are getting paid for that , agreed. None doing charity nor the employee or the employer.
If some one is breaking the rule they should be punished . Physical punishment no employer can do thus monitory punishment is well defined.
According to me it is not at all unethical for the MD or for the management if he is terminating the person and charging penalty form the salary. After all why should company pay extra expenses from its own pocket for others fault.

Hi George:
I am sure, every company and every employee would have a right to their own views. However my personal opinion is that if the employee meets his/her deadlines then you need not bother.
You may want to read the book "Maverick" by Ricardo Semler....It is a good read to know how employees perform if there are not under too much of rules and regulations.

Seems that your organization in having a decade back book of Rules & Regulations.
Heard from a famous speaker 'The more laws, the more corrupt is the nation'.
Imposing fines for non-observable acts will generate more of dis-respect and less ownership towards the organization. Any form of In-discipline with a money involved as Fine or method to correct them, will lead to no where.
It's hard to be funny when you have to be clean- Mae West
Simmy Saini | Google | India.

There could be more solutions you can try :
Collect everyone's mobile before entering office
If they dont have access to floors, put some scanner on the gate of the floor, so that only authorised person can go in.
Keep am office boy, who will collect all the papers from everyone's desk & process for recycling. [The size of co. you have, there must be many office boys]
Ask the office boy to switch off the lights after everyone goes.
Hope it helps.

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