Neer300182
Hr, Legal Compliance & Er-ir
Ash Mathew
Recruitments, Training`
S.Chandrasekar
Hr-manager, Trainer, Writer
Vineetsaini19
Recruitment, Appraisals
Ranjith Kumar
Recruitment, Training
Raj Kumar Hansdah
Shrm, Od, Hrd, Pms
Maheshb79hr
Human Resource
Kalyan Mitra
Exports/risk Management/ Administration/
J.Gopi Krishna
Agm Hr & Ir
Satishbhel
Technical
+6 Others

Thread Started by #Jamila Patel

Dear Seniors,
My company has the following leave policy:
2 casual leaves per month i.e. 24 leaves in a year
0.5 sick leaves a month i.e. 6 leaves in a year
Which is 2.5 leaves a month summing upto 30 leaves in a year.
What i would like to understand is:
If an employee is taking a leave for a stretch of days and if a sunday and bank holiday comes in the middle of these leaves, then is that sunday and bank holiday counted as a leave or is it not counted??
for eg: if an employee is taking leave from Wednesday,30th September 2009 to Tuesday, 6th October 2009 the it is considered as:
7 days leave (assuming sunday and bank holiday i.e.2nd October are cosidered as leave taken) OR
6 day leave (assuming that bank holiday is not counted as leave but sunday is counted as leave taken) OR
5 day leave (assuming both i.e. Sunday as well as bank holiday is not counted as leave taken)
We have a 6 day week.
Please advice.
Regards,
Jamila Patel
29th September 2009 From India, Mumbai
hi Jamila,
if you take leave say from Wednesday to Monday (both days inclusive), then Sunday or whatever holiday comes in between is considered as leave.
assuming you have 6 day week (saturday is working) and you rejoin on Monday, then only 4 days are considered.
this is how the hr generally operate.
29th September 2009 From India, Madras
Dear Jamila,
Greeting for the day!!!
It must be clearly mentioned in the HR Policies that what will be the procedure of calculating leaves for leave for a stretch of days.
If not then its on the dicreation of the company to decide on this matter
Normally companies shall consider sunday as a leave for a stretch of days.
So pls go through your HR & Leave Policies applicable in your company.
30th September 2009 From India, New Delhi
Hi Jamila,
Companies now a days have different rules for leave. In many companies particularly in IT sectors all declared holidays are not treated as holidays. However the general rule is that if u are absent in both the days before and after the declared holidays which includes a Sunday then Sunday alongwith declared holidays will be treated as leave. For example
2nd October is a Friday and if u are absent on 1st ( Thursday )as well as on 5th which is a Monday then it will be treated as u have taken 5 days leave. However if u are present on 5th then only 1st will be treated as leave provided u have five days week.
30th September 2009 From India, Calcutta
@Ramesh and Anonymous - Thanks for the help!
@ Kapil - Our company is a start up. I made the HR policies when i came on board. We are still in the process of finalizing the policies. My boss and me were a little stumped when it came to this as we both found out different things from different sources. so i wanted to understand the trend in general before taking any decision.
@ Kalyan -We have 6 day week. if an employee takes an off on Saturday, 3rd October and joins on Monday, 5th October then how many days leave would it be considered??
30th September 2009 From India, Mumbai
Normally If an employee takes leave on the prefix and suffix of a holiday or weekly off...The complete period would be considered as leave... :(
30th September 2009 From India, Bangalore
Particularly if an employee takes leave on 3rd that would be considered as one day leave because he is taking a leave on the suffix of Saturday and prefix of Sunday... Normally if he takes a leave on the prefix and suffix of a holiday then it would be considered in total
example, as you said the employee takes leave on 3rd and 5th then it would be marked as 3 days leave because the employee have taken leave on the prefix and suffix of a holiday. The same things goes for Saturday also..
30th September 2009 From India, Bangalore
@ Mahesh - you are gettin me wrong. 3rd Otober is a saturday, 2nd October which is Friday is a bank holiday due to Gandhi jayanti so if an employee takes a leave on 3rd october then he gets an off on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. This employee joins back on Monday morning which is 5th October.
So how many days leave is counted???
30th September 2009 From India, Mumbai
hi Jamila,
that's why when we took leave, we took weekends off. re-joined on Monday/next working day. then again took the next day off, legally breaking the rules but technically within norms.
but what mahesh says is right if your guy fails to turn on 5th and rejoins only on 6th. which means 1-5 will be treated as leave normally or at the discretion of the management. otherwise like you said his leave stands till October 1 only.
funny thing though, we used to break the rules technically and the managements broke their heads and came up with solutions. so to create rules, you need to understand how to break them and then plug the loopholes.
30th September 2009 From India, Madras
Hi Jamila,
If the employee works on 1st ( Thursday )takes a leave on 3rd( Saturday ) and joins on
5th ( Monday ) as per standard practice only one day's leave goes which is on Saturday. But if he does not come on 1st ( Thursday ) and on 3rd ( Saturday )as well and joins on 5th ( Monday ) he loses 3 days leave from 1st to 3rd.
30th September 2009 From India, Calcutta
Friends,

Many frame up their own leave policy structures to suit the tune of the management. Let me explain to you on the basis of TN Shop & Establishment Act and Labour Welfare Act. So that you all can see where all are erring.

1) For the work done from Mon -Saturday (daily 8 hrs), sunday is a paid holiday

2) Clubbing of festivals/ holdiays declared under Form-V cannot be treated as CL/SL/PL

3) In a month, for every 30 days worked (including 4 paid sundays), 1 CL & 1 SL allowed

4) After completion of a year of continuous service, 12 EL is credited to leave A/c

5) Say, an employee has accumulated 2CL/2SL/12EL as of Sep for that year. He wants to avail 10 days Durga Puja. His leave is

sanctioned. How would you account this?

You can knock off earned leave days for this purpose and have CL/SL in store for emergency. Any leftover CL/SL can be carried over for accumulation.

In your view, a sunday or a festival may intrude in his availed period. If so, would those sundays and holidays be taken as his leave days?? All companies follow this just for the reason of controlling leave encashment and to reduce the monthly billing. If sunday or festival is treated as CL/SL/EL, then one can avail optional leave for those festival days which he has not availed. HR Dept will have no defence to tackle this question.

For insufficient leave balance, of course, LOP would figure. Only here, the clubbing of overlapping sundays would be applicable. Someday the clubbing story was created and till now we all have been following with reverence !!!**??

Let all HR be clear and transparent with respect to leave policy. Any one can pull you for denying the rights of an employee. Be clear in the leave chart that every employee is entitiled for 12CL / 12 SL /12 EL /12 annual holidays. This is as per the Act that is to be followed and entered in the Forms & Registers. Check out for the number of days allowed under your State Act in your region.

This is the reason for calcuating a month as 26 days in Gratuity calucation. When we deviate, all unsaid troubles crop up. This has serious repercussion on annual PF & ESI contributions /Bonus.

Again as said, this is the discretion of the management. As employees, we demand the right; as employers we try to curtail it.

Regards,

Chandru
1st October 2009 From India, Madras
SUNDAY /weekly is holiday for workers .
IT IS A DUBBLE WORKING DAY FOR MANAGER AND- OWNER.
IF YOU THINK SUNDAY IS HOLIDAY FOR YOU THEN YOU ARE paid worker and i think you do not have any thing in you to work for .working only to fill belly and not for your capacity and intellect.
<link no longer exists - removed>

1st October 2009 From India, Pondicherry
Dear Patel,
As per the factories act, there is no particular day i.e. sunday or anyday, but the first day of the week whatever the day should be given leave to any employee. i.e., for a worker, if he takes off on monday, his weekdays starts from monday and if a worker takes of on tuesday for him the week starts on tuesday. Like that, every employee you see executives in most of the the companies, take leave on sunday, that means his week starts from sunday.
1st October 2009 From India, Mumbai
Jamila, I got your point. It would be calculated as one day leave because the employee is taking one day leave to the prefix and to the suffix of the government holiday and weekly off..
1st October 2009 From India, Bangalore
It is stated in the very beginning that the nature of leave is CL. As per PSU rules, the SUNDAY & Company Declared Holidays shall not be counted in the total leave i.e the employee leave balance shall not reduce. So if the employee works on 1st and joins on 5th, he has to apply for 1 day leave (if CL). The suffix & prefix should be clearly mentioned in the leave application form which gives true information for how many days he will be out. If the employee is taking EL, then the total absence period is treated as Leave (except the prefix & suffix period). This is the standard practice followed in PSUs. Don't know how private firms manage. Their rules may be different but the same must be stated in writing. To be more clear, take the example of Durga Pooja. Dussehara holiday is declared on 28th Sept. 27th is Sunday. Consider 6 days week. If the employee has worked on 26th and joins on 29th, NO LEAVE. If the employee works on 26th and joins on 30th, 1 day leave. In our company, 26th Sept is last saturday holiday. So can take CL for 29,30,01,03 (4 days CL) and avail a total of 9 days leave) since 26 is last saturday, 27 is sunday, 28 is declared holiday, 2nd is declared holiday, 4th is sunday. However, in case of CL, the total absence period should not be more than 10 days. Hope it clarifies.
1st October 2009 From India, Delhi
Dear Jamila,
Each company has different polocies. Certain companies have the Sunday also as a leave if employee takes leave on the Saturday or Following monday. Certain companies do not calculate that as a leave.
Its left to you to decide and formulate the policy
1st October 2009 From India, Madras
Before go into detail discussion on leave calculation, we should understand the type of leave. In our organisation, we have 3 categories of leaves, they are 1. casual leave, 2. sick leave, 3. earned leave. We work for 5 day week.
If an employee applies for leave from wednesday to Monday - we will consider like this.
If it is casual leave - we count only 4 days only.
If it is sick leave or Earned leave - we count 6 days ( The reason is sick leaves are meant for sick only, we count normally no. of sick days of a particular employee, that will be taken into account. But we cannot relax on sick leave and there will not be any break or holiday for sick).
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Regards
Chandu
HRD
1st October 2009 From India, Hyderabad
Hi jamila,
First I would advise you to go through your Company Leave Policy. Leave Policy differs from company to company.
Earlier in my company we use to consider prefix or suffix of Holiday as a leave.
But now in this year we have changed our leave policy and now we only consider the leave applied and prefix and sufix would be considered as holiday only.
1st October 2009 From India, Hyderabad
@ chandrashekhar - Can you tell me what is the leave policy applicable for Maharashtra???
@ all - since we have not divided the leaves as per SL, CL and EL but only as SL and CL, how does this rule apply in context to my company??..since most of ul are saying that in case of CL, sunday would not be a leave but in case of EL, sunday would be a leave.
Or do ul think i should divide it in these 3 categories??..as mentioned before we are a start up company and have still not finalized the policies.
I am confused :(
1st October 2009 From India, Mumbai
Dear Jamila,

In my company (KPO), we give 6 CL's, 6 SL's and 18 PL's per year and CO if employees are working on saturday or sunday as we are 5 day working.

The reason for considering the prefix/suffix to Saturday/Monday as leave is to discourage the employees to take advantage of the prefix or suffix but we give this advantage to the employees as most of the employees working with us are outstationed employees and they can utilize weekends to go back home but only if their project manager approves.

There is no concept of prefixes and suffixes of holidays in our company for CL's and SL's.

If in our company, if an employee goes on leave on 1st Oct and joins on 6th Oct. then I mark only three leaves: 1) 1st Oct 2) 3rd Oct 3) 5th Oct -

3 CL's will be adjusted or 3 SL's will be adjusted or 2 CL's+1 SL or 2SL +1 CL.

If an employee doesnt have SL or CL left, then PL's will be marked from 1st to 5th making 6 leaves in number.

Our leaves(CL,SL) are less in number but we give full freedom in leaves to the employees as our company's nature of work is very hard and we are unable to pay OT's also so we have kept our leave policy's very comfortable and flexible.

Basically, what I mean to say is, its your choice Jamila to frame the best HR Policy for your employees. There are no hard and fast rules in this.

Ultimately, what matters is your employees should be happy.
1st October 2009 From India, Chandigarh
@ vineet - thanks for the info!..the problem with HR ppl like us is that we have to balance employees AND the employers!..as an employee myself, i would want to keep the leave structure as flexible and as employee-friendly as possible..bcoz somehwere down the line it is also going to benefit me..but my boss would not agree so easily..so there is a conflict of interest..i dont know which way to lean..that is y i thought of asking about general industry standards.
1st October 2009 From India, Mumbai
Dear Jamila,

When I was HR Manager in my previous assignment with a Bombay based BPO, I had a challenging role. They did not follow anything as per the Act. They arrived at 7 CL, 7SL from somewhere. Since I was in Chennai, I did not adhere to their policy. I devised a new leave policy and as a result I followed the act as per TN Act in our business jurisdiction here.

For any matter, the companies based out of Mumbai is always troublesome. I had even thought if such rules and acts are strictly and consciously followed there. If unnecessarily leave days are knocked on employees, it would affect PF/Bonus/Gratuity calculation. Poor employees.. they don't even revolt for this... for fear factor!!!

For EL, sundays necessarily need not be included. That is why in government offices, when leave form is submitted, the employee can request sundays to be 'excluded'. This has been a long debate always. Legally speaking, the leave balance account showing CL,SL,EL does not include Sundays. If so, how can we include sunday into leave period?

Please refer to Maharashtra Shops/Estb. Act, authored by S.D.Puri. To my knowledge, the companies there do not follow a common rule.

Regards,

Chandru
1st October 2009 From India, Madras
Dear Jamila

Many including S. Chandrasekar, quoted above, have given good replies.

I can understand that you are confused.

Please try to understand the basic concepts first, which will make everything clear to you and enable you to take your own decisions rather than depending on other's spoon-feeding you every time you hit a road block.

In brief :

1. There are good employers (who are fair, like the PSU's) and good policies (which are employee friendly) and bad employers and bad policies (wherein one tries to exploit employees to the max).

2. The suffix and prefix rules are a corollary of the above principles (bad policy; how to curb the benefit to the maximum level possible)

3. There are Govt. legislation like Public holidays (including national holidays), which are meant to a Closed holiday and paid leave.

4. A fair policy means an employee's leave balance should not be curtailed if there are intervening Weekly off (paid) and declared Holidays (paid).

5. Except in Sick leave (paid), which generally are a compassionate and welfare measure, the intervening holidays are not counted, and also they are based on Medical certificate. For example, if an employee is down with Swine Flu for 10 days, his Sick Leave balance stands reduced to 10 days, irrespective of whether there were weekly off or Closed Holidays in between. Since it takes the form of Paid leave, no one has any cause to complains.

6. There are various kinds of Leave (which may vary from company to Company - the number and also the nature of Leave) and various combination and permutations are selected :

Traditional Indian pattern of Leaves :

(i) EL/PL : Earned Leave or Privileged Leave - They are generally allowed after completing a month of working or later. Generally, based on a rate of 1 leave per 10 days or maximum 2.5 in a month or 30 days in a year.

These are 'planned' Leave, meaning an employee has to apply and get approval fairly in advance.

(ii) Sick Leave/Half Pay leave - certain good companies give after completion of one year, Half Pay leave of 20 days; which can also be used as fully paid leave of 10 days in case of self-sickness. on medical certificate.

Some companies may club Sick leave and casual Leave.

(iii) Casual Leave - They are of casual nature and can be taken on exigencies without requiring prior approval (only intimation need be given).

Beginning of the Leave year, they are given prorata every month or allowed to accumulate month after month till the end of the year. They lapse at the end of year, if not utilised.

Sick leave when clubbed with casual leave are allowed to be carried forward in some companies.

There are certain other Leaves too, some of which are not generally allowed by companies.

Leave system patterned on American companies :

With the advent of American companies and Western influence, companies started having 5 day week. thus 52 days per year straight away went to the credit of employees. Hence, the employers tightened their rules, hence the introduction of practices (like intervening holidays, prefix, suffix rules) which ensure that your Leave balance gets depleted.

American companies have very few Closed holidays or EL/PL except the long Christmas and New Year holidays. Indian companies, especially in IT sector are going towards this pattern.

For you, it will be ideal to have certain EL/PL which can be carried forward and accumulated every year, apart from CL/SL.

Also you will need to follow the Shop and establishment Act of your state, which has the provision of weekly off (that is why Sunday (generally) is a weekly Off day - a paid holiday. It also lists out the Closed holidays/Festival leave in the year.

Please search citeHr for more inputs, as this has been discussed in a number of threads.

Also, please try to understand the difference between "counted as leave" and "not counted as leave". This is always with reference to Leave balance and not to ask/test whether that day is a Leave or not.

I think you are making a mistake in the usage of this term. If something is not counted as leave; the total number of leave that you have to debit from the Leave Balance of the employee, becomes smaller.

Conversely, when something (some day) is counted as Leave; means larger number of leaves to be debited from Leave Account.

This is always in reference to the application of leave - "to count as leave" or "not to count as leave". If somebody applies for 10 days leave and 3 days are already holidays, then they are not counted as (his) leave so its only 7 days leave that you deduct from his Leave balance.

Hope, I am able to clarify this issue.

Warm regards.
2nd October 2009 From India, Delhi
Please check your message box wherein I have mailed my company’s complete leave rules.
2nd October 2009 From India, Delhi
Hello Jamila,
If an employee is monthly paid then the Paid Holiday and weekly off i.e. Sunday or it may any other day should be cosidered as leave (specially PL). And for daily paid employees only Paid Holidays should be cosidered as leave.
In short I want to say that the day for which the employee is eligible to get payment can be considered as leave.
vijay dere
Thane
2nd October 2009 From India, Mumbai
Leaves covering preceeding and succeding the day of weekly off shall be treated as leave.
Some companies do allow Declared Holidays such as Festival or National Holidays falling in leave period shall not be treated as leave but most of the organizations do not allow this practices but this is not fare practice to deprive employee of his festival and national holidays then employees starts calculating more convenient adjustment of leaves to avoid loss of declared holidays.
There are companies who even do not allow employees to take leaves in conjunction with weekly off of holidays these are only tricks of HR who wants to keep employee more engaged instead of enjoying their holidays and leaves...
Parthasarthi
3rd October 2009 From Saudi Arabia
Mr.Rajkumar Hans, That was a good descriptive reply from your side with demonstrative comparison. Let us close the thread here to avoid further confusions. Regards, Chandru
3rd October 2009 From India, Madras
Sir/Madam.
My name is Ranganath. i have one doubt . One employee taken the leave from Friday to Monday . and company as per rule saturday and sunday holiday.
Can we consider 2days or 4days leave. pl send the along with factory act rule.
Regards
RANGANATHA
24th February 2010 From India, Bangalore
Dear Jamila,

Since you said it is a startup comapny, it is better that you fix a transparent leave policy now itself. Employers however will have the mentality to curtail the leave days and finally arrive with an attitude similar to paying 'Daily wages'.

Have a simple rule.

For days worked from Mon -Sat, Sunday is off. (paid holiday). So it goes that you have worked on sunday also.

For every 30 days worked, you are eligible for 1 CL and 1 SL with pay.

Yearly you have around 10 festival holidays (Pvt company) and 21 days for Govt. cos.

On completion of one year of service, you are eligible for 12 EL. (All are paid days).

There was an occasion when the chief offier of a BPO company lamented thus: "so we give 12 CL, 12 SL, 12 holidays, 12 EL in a year. My god...48 days. Hey..come on...I am at a loss man." The comment makes us think as if he hadn't enjoyed them when he was an employee elsewhere.

So stick on to the guidelines of Shop & Establishments Act of your state and Labour act. Employers will view from a crooked angle and finally when problem comes, they may say 'why didn't you advise me in the begining?'

Please make it as simple as possible without complication.

Regards,

Chandru
25th February 2010 From India, Madras
Reply (Add What You Know) Start New Discussion

Cite.Co - is a repository of information created by your industry peers and experienced seniors. Register Here and help by adding your inputs to this topic/query page.
Prime Sponsor: TALENTEDGE - Certification Courses for career growth from top institutes like IIM / XLRI direct to device (online digital learning)





About Us Advertise Contact Us
Privacy Policy Disclaimer Terms Of Service



All rights reserved @ 2019 Cite.Co™