R.N.Khola
Labour Laws & Ir
Neha22111986@yahoo.co.in
Employee Engagement And Retention, Day To
Penubothu
Human Resources - Generalist
Vishaltripathi
Personnal & Administration
Amitmhrm
Hr Practices
Ajithaa
Mba Hr
Vkokamthankar
Asst. General Manager - Hr
Deepakgehlot
Human Resource Manager
Saurabh.shrivastav
Manaer Hr & Admn, Prexus Health India
Ankush1976
People Management, Project Management, Process
+9 Others

Hi,

I have been an employee of my current organization for 11.5 months. My leave balance shows 13 Casual Leaves, 3 Sick leaves and 9 Earned Leaves (this i cannot avail right now as i am on probation period). I will become a permanent employee in 15 days. The problem is, right now our company does not have any HR person. All the attendance/leave issues are handlied by the front office executive. I had taken a leave of 6 days in May. Suddenly i see that 4 days pay has been cut from my salary. They say there is a company policy that an employee cannot avail more than 2 casual leaves in a month. Is this possible?
I have been asked to fill in the leave card. What should i do about that? Please help me out with this at the earliest.
Also, one more concern that i have is, the front office executive who is handling HR issues is not good. She has access to all employee files and i have heard her discuss the salary of other employees with her friends in office. Is this fair? This bothers me as it is not professional behaviour. Please advice what should be done in the matter. The company does not seem too inclined to hire an HR manager due to financial problems and i dont want to get in the bad books of the MD or GM of the company by complaining straight away. Please advice on a proper course of action. Thanks!
2nd June 2009 From India, Calcutta
But earlier there was no such rule in the company. I have availed more than 2 CLs before. Doesn’t this have to be conveyed as company policy? or is it mentioned in the Factory Act?
2nd June 2009 From India, Calcutta
Hi Payal, I have seen some companies following the trend of pay cut if CL surpasses the maximum permissible i.e. 2 in your case.
They normally do it saying that what if employee avails all the leaves on paid basis in month or so and then leaves the organisation.However some companies dont follow it
As far as discussion of your salary is concerned ,please make sure that you have witnessed it and your aligation is right.If this is actually being done then please see your company environment.Even though you stand genuine to question it but im saying the company environment so as you get a hint how seriously your company takes it.Then go ahead and tell your MD or GM politely about what's happening in the office by saying that I just wanted to discuss something which was making me feel uncomfortable..
All the best
2nd June 2009 From India, Chandigarh
Hi Neha,
Thanks for the reply. I am very sure about the salary discussion as i have heard it myself. I can take a chance by talking to the MD as he is more professional in his approach. The GM does not give importance to professionalism and might turn this into a casual matter. i reaaly feel that an HR manager is important even if the no. of employees is less.
2nd June 2009 From India, Calcutta
I agree to you payal that some HR person is necessary but as you said the finances create a problem.so its better if they even hire an Exec or even if the front office exec is handling it then atleast she should be ethical.U have a strong point so go ahead and talk to MD and state your point not as complaint against her but as a concern for organisation in polite manner.
All the best
2nd June 2009 From India, Chandigarh
Payal,
The company may have inherent rules of no. of CL's being allowed in a month, but the important point is
That the same must be told to the employees when they join.
If the leave is applied beforehand i.e. before going on leave then the reply must go to the emplyee whether it is sanctioned fully/partially.
As far as discussing the salary is concerned well you bring it into the light of the upper Management. You should also appraise the upper Management about your leaves and covey to them that there needs to be a better system adopted for sanctioning of leaves.
2nd June 2009 From China, Leizhou
Dear Payal,
If the policy was explained to you at the time of joining than you have to adhere to it. Secondly salary is confidential hence the exe discussing the same is not the right, try talking to the exe - may be he/she does not know and you addressing directly to them would help.
2nd June 2009 From India, New Delhi
Payal,
Please check your leave policy. It totally depends on company leave policy. if they have documented it in their Leave Policy then they are right.. Otherwise, you are eligible to avail your available leaves.
regards,
Amit Seth.
2nd June 2009 From India, Ahmadabad
Dear Payal,

its nice to hear that u r working with the same organization since 11.5 months and in another 15 days ur going to become a permanent Employee of your present Organization.

I congratulate you first for successfully completing your one year service with your present organization

Its better to review first about your Company leave policy, then u can come to one conclusion. if your company is giving you the 13 days leave as CL, is these leaves are given u at a time to utilise in the present assessment yr, then u have all the right to utilise the 4 days leave u applied for and your company has no right to say u that cannot take more then 2 days of leave in any month. if your comp has specified that ur suppose to take only two days of leave as Cl. then u have no chance to discuss on the same.

Coming to HR Manager, as u said that ur company is facing the financial crises. its better to hire one Exectuive who has exp abt 2-3 yrs as Generalist. so that he/she can take the total responsibility of Employee's issues.

In the same you were discussing about the FOE that she is the one who handling all the Employee records and misusing the Employee information, its better to discuss with your Higher Official first and exclate the same, then if nothing is happening you can take it to your MD and share your information to him about the FOE and at the same time u can give one suggest to Hire one HR who can manage all the process in the Organization.

the way of presenting the issue in front of your MD, he should take the decision in keeping views of Employees benefits, act accordingly.

all the very best and you have great day.
3rd June 2009 From India, Hyderabad
Thanks a lot for all the replies. I have had a look at the leave rules and this is what it says:

All leaves should preferably be pre sanctioned by controlling Authority. The following guidelines should be adhered to by all the employees-

Medical Leave – Should be availed in emergencies only with intimation. More than 2 days leave at one stretch will require medical certificate. It can be accumulated up to 70 days, beyond which it may be lapsed and will not get encashed.



Casual Leave – Should preferably be pre – sanctioned. The balance leaves at the end of the calendar year will automatically be encashed.This should be availed on pro data basis during the year.

Earned Leave – To be availed only when it is earned. This can be accumulated up to 150 days. 50% of the outstanding E/L can be encashed any time. Entire E/L outstanding on the individual will get encashed at the time of retirement/separation.

Two kinds of leaves cannot be mixed in one stretch. However, EL+ SL may be considered in case of requirement by an individual on medical ground.

Off days falling within the leave period will be taken as Leave, except in case of CL.

Unsanctioned leave will be considered as Leave without Pay.

This issues with the approval of competent authority.

This will come into effect from 1.4.07

I had not applied for the 4 days leave as it was an emergency for which i had left from office after informing the MD and VP. For the other 3 days i had called the VP and informed him of the situation. They were all aware of this. For the other 2 days of leave that i took later in the month, i had applied before hand and it was granted by my boss.
3rd June 2009 From India, Calcutta
Hi Payal
It is very clear if it is mentioned in the policy you should adhere to it. As you said you availed more than 2 days leave before that so it is clear that there is no such policy.
In case if they have amended the policy the same should be conveyed to team so you have rights to take the issue to the concerned person (i.e., front office executive).
Have you got the leave approved by your immediate manager if yes, you can communicate through him.\
Coming to discussing salary part is a serious issue, first you talk to front office executive if you find no changes you should take the issue to the manager and to the MD.
3rd June 2009 From India, Bangalore
Dear Payal, Before post the article you must go through company policy for leave.If you not agree with policy or some problem you can meet HR Head. Regards, Dada
3rd June 2009 From India, New Delhi
Dear Payal,
It is very clear from the Leave Policy that CL needs to be taken on pro-rata basis. So I hope your salary deduction issue is solved.
For the other issue you need to talk to your HOD & then may take up the matter to your MD.
Your company seriously needs a HR person to update all policies(your leave policy effective date is 2007:O)
Wish you all the best!
3rd June 2009 From India, Mumbai
as prer legal labour law
one can avail 1 casual leave on 45 days (including holidays) i.e on 45 days salary you receive.Minimum 7 in a year
Earned / paid / privildge 1 on 20 for only working days minimum14 in ayear
Medical leave on the gorunds of certified by medical practioner.minimum 7 in ayear
company HR /Personnel policy should not violate above these figures but they can provide more being flexible as per the rules
best regards
3rd June 2009 From India, Mumbai
Pls. tell me what is minimum wages for personal asst. effective 1st jan 2009 in Haryana. Thanx
3rd June 2009
Hi Payal,
Every company follows a Leave policy, and the leaves are calculated based on the leave segregation per month based on the leave policy. So whatever the front office admin as done is correct however discussing about the salary is punishable. Just file a issue to the management.
3rd June 2009 From India, Madras
Dear Naveen Bhardwaj,
The rate of minimum wages for P.A. is Rs. 4880.10 per month wef 01.01.2009.
Submitted as requested.
Regards,
R.N.Khola


(Labour Law & Legal Consultants)
09810405361
3rd June 2009 From India, Delhi
Hi Payal, It is SL not CL, when availed if any holiday or off comes in between shall not be part of leave. Regards, Amit Seth.
3rd June 2009 From India, Ahmadabad
Dear Payal,

Leave rules are given in Employee handbook too. If your company does not have one then you prepare it with some basic but important rules and keep on adding. It should not take more than a month in any case to prepare a handbook which is fairly acceptable to the organisation. It will establish you as the HR person in the company, I hope you are a HR professional ?

The concept of CL is due to any unplanned reasons you may need leave sometimes(Flat tyre, strike,flu,headache etc) and so CL is not allowed more than 2 in a month and it is assumed to be availed only in case of a sudden unplanned need.

Front office as the name and designation means - an employee who does a lower level job which is never comparable to HR profession. So you can not expect a front office executive to show high level ethics and professional behaviour. You can at most implement some professionalism as a rule but people like to break rules ! So salaries as long as handled by front office will remain public affairs !

Thanks

Geeta
4th June 2009 From Korea, Seoul
Every employee has the right to ask questions on topics concerning his own interest and it is every companies duty to answer your query.
Without hesitation, you should go and ask the concerned authority or the front office executive who is managing the leaves. Though she may not be an HR she might have the right knowledge of how to calculate the CL leaves based on the instructions given, so without blaming her clear your doubts with her upfront.
Secondly, If you have observed her discussing the salaries with her friends then first thing you should do it to warn her for doing so by referring to the policy and if she still continues the same behavior then complain about this to the HOD.
I am sure this will help.
All the best.
Regards,
Shraddha H
4th June 2009 From India, Pune
Hi Payal,
Did you ask your front office executive or any other concerned person regarding your leave balance before taking your leaves:!::?: what did she / he tel you & did you submit your leave application to the same person:?:

See leave policy differs from company to company there is no such hard rules. Let us take example what we follow in our company: we have 21 ELs (earned leaves) per yr. this can be utilized as the employee wish, even he can avail 5 leaves in the month of Jan only ie yr begining, no deductions in his / her salary. Because,this leaves are for whole yr so the remaining leave bal can be utilized for the whole year. In case if all the leaves exhaust or employee leaves the company in the mid of the yr then the deductions will be done in his salary on pro rata basis at the time of his relieving.

Some co has leave policy based on monthly basis wr they can avail 2 leaves / month in this case if a person do not use his leave every month then it goes on accumulating. Suppose if a person has not used his leave for 3 mnths then his leave bal shows 2*3=6 days of accumulated leaves, so he can avail these continuosly whenever he requires without any LOP(loss of pay). but these leaves can be availed prior intimation to his Manager & HR.

Hope this will help you.:icon1: And ask the concerned person in your company about the leave policy & its better to ask her/him to forward the same to your mail. Actually this should be done at the time of joining of an employee.

Reply me:)

Regards,
Roopa
HR
4th June 2009 From India, Bangalore
Hi Payal,
Leave limit uprto 2 CL during the probation is very common in Indian Companies. A lot of companies do this. So the 4 day pay cut is justified, However, pease check your appointment letter- it should mentioned as a part of your appointment letter that you are not allowed more than 2 CL's during your probation period.
Secondly, Salary is a highly confidential matter and if you have strong evidence against the "front desk executive" about he/ she sharing the salary data among employees, then please take this up seriously- First with the executive himself / herself. May be he/ she is doing it out of ignorance. If it doesn't works then do take this up with the senior management.
best regards
Ankush
9971131459
4th June 2009 From India, Gurgaon
Dear Payal,
As per your following query, every company has its own HR rules for leaves. So if your previous company does not have this rule means your current company also sheould follow this rule, its wrong.
See be professional and 2nd important this whatever you front office employee is doing that is totally worng. As she is not from HR she might dont know about the rule of HR.
Try to make kind attention to your MD/GM reagrding this but very smartly.
Regards,
Pradyumna
9820108821/9769660230

4th June 2009 From India, Pune
Hi Payal.
taking CL for more than 2 days is depend upon the company rules and regulations...
in some companies employee can avail mxm 3 days CL ........
And regarding salary confidential you should concern to GM or MD since it is confidential matter......... don't allow her to go with that bad professional ............ if she does not know ask her it keep it confidential .....
4th June 2009 From India, Bangalore
Yes payal plz follow the Roopa’s advise ......... since she explained you very nicely ......... Ha Roopa it is nice explanation .......Thanks. By Chandru Executi - HR
4th June 2009 From India, Bangalore
Hi Gulshan,
You are not very clear about your question.. I understand from your qstn that whether we (the employees are supposed to pay to the company for the leave we take) is it so?? is this your qstn??
EL Earned Leave means where an employee can avail leave which is paid for him, no deductions from his/her salary. The company will pay his /her salary though he/she has taken leave.
We earn our money(salary)though we do not work for that particular day or days that's why it is called as earned leave. But this can not be taken for granted it is based on rules / policy.
Hope your doubt is clear.. kindly reply.
Regards,
Roopa
4th June 2009 From India, Bangalore
Hi, Payal,
In posted leave policy you have not mentioned that how many CL can an employee avail during calander year.
As per Factory act HLD / W.off b/w leaves will not be treat as part of that.
As your front office exe. is handling HR function, you have full right to cleare your quires with her.
Reg. accumalation of CL plz go through with the certified standing orders of your company.
Thanx
Vishal
4th June 2009 From India, Delhi
1.Definition of Earned Leave given by Ms. Roopa is not correct.
2. Earned Leave (EL) is a Leave you earn as you work. Very commonly followed norm is you earn 2.5 days EL after working for a month. EL earned is either credited to your leave account at the end of the month or at the end of the year.
3. In case of Ms. Payal, her company should have proper Leave Policy & Rules in place and it should be clearly communicated to all the employees. May be Ms. Payal can take a initiative and do it herself.
4. One should always think of what is in the larger interest of the company and one should be eyes and ear of the company. If you notice anything wrong happening, then you should report it to appropriate authority. But you should not be biased to anybody.
Thanks & Regards
4th June 2009 From India, Pune
Hi,
As ours in a manufacturing company, they follow rules as per Factory Act 1948. Can anyone tell me the leave entitlement as per the Factory Act, 1948 for employees on probation as well as permanent employees?
Thanks!
5th June 2009 From India, Calcutta
Dear
In my opinion probationers & confirmed employees/workers are entitled to avail EL at the same rate under the Factories Act.1948. Some of the members are of the opinion that probationers are not entitled to EL during probation period. Which of the proviso debar the probationer to become entitled for EL.
Regards,
R.N.Khola


(Labour Law & Legal Consultants)
09810405361
5th June 2009 From India, Delhi
dear friends
i confused that leave is mentioned that all leave are bulked.
Notified sundays and holidays falling in the period of leave shall not counted as leave.
Is it right or wrong ?
I have came to know the rules of leave is changed.
5th June 2009 From India, Vadodara
Dear Payal, Ref. to quiery, reg leave.
As per factory act,
Every employee is entitled to get EL after completion of his / her 240 days of continues services during last 12 months.
For calculation of EL, when an employee has worked for 20 actual working days he will earn 1 day leave (For adult)
in case of child it is 15 actual working days.
Hope now leave policy as per factory act 1948 is clear to you
Regds
Vishal
Asstt. Manager (P&A)
6th June 2009 From India, Delhi
Dear Vishal,
Where it is defined ? Plz quote the section which gives the inference that a probationer is not entitled to leave with wages. You have also written for another member that a worker is entitled to EL if he works for 240 days during the last 12 months while in my opinion this is calendar year & not last 12 months as per section 79(1) of The Factories Act,1948.
Regards,
R.N.Khola


(Labour Law & Legal Consultants)
09810405361
6th June 2009 From India, Delhi
Dear Mr. Khola, it is understood that while calculating working days for the purpose of leave we consider calcnder year, but thanx a lot for correction
6th June 2009 From India, Delhi
Dear Mr. Khola, we are discussing about EL, not for all kinds of leave, probationer can avail CL / SL.
6th June 2009 From India, Delhi
Dear Payal,
Giving CL/SL/PL to an employees, is depends upon the Company's policy. You can request your colloeagues, to give you CL in advance, which she can get approved as a spl case. Since, you are not a confirmed empolyee, availing PL is not possible before 12 month, since PL accrued in current year, can be availed in next year.
Alternatively, your can avail SL upon productin of medical certificate, if you are a ESIC employee, you can get the benefit & claim your salary from ESIC.
the best approach would be request for providing Adv. CL, approved by the competent authority.
regards,
Deepak Gehlot
8th June 2009 From India, Delhi
Dear Payal,
i think you should read your General Service Rule book first. since you are under your probation period how could you avail EL coz EL is given only after confirmation.
about the leave management how could your Front Office Executive can handle that. they are not at all entitled to do so.
Your company HR Policies needs to be revised.
8th June 2009 From India, Delhi
Dear Gulshan Sharma,
During the year a worker under the Factories Act can avail Earned Leaves for a maximum of three time. If your unit/establishment is not covered under this Act then go through the Act which is applicable for grant of earned leaves.
Regards,
R.N.Khola


11th September 2009 From India, Delhi
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