Well Members,
I think this is a very eye opening discussion going on here and brave are those who post in their views whatsoever.
It’s really hard to sometimes decide which road to follow. For the sake of an Organisational Objective, Yes ! we have to undress our Moral & Ethics and negotiate the bitter Truth. And at the same time we want our employees to hold Personal & Financial Integrity to the highest.
We Sow as we Reap !
Organisations Laminate bribe as ‘Entertainment Expenses’ and those who Claim in that account, no further explanations are asked. No One really care to know whether the person has really spend that much or is he just cooking up. Just Live On!
We don’t know how Much Public Money is used to fill up one’s personal Privilage.
Once while I was posted in one of my assignments, I came to meet a Local Press Reporter who wanted to be given a Parlty Sum to finance his group to & fro Expenses for attending a press Meet. Also he was demanding service for his car which had been damaged due to an accident which happened for the lack of street lights. We all knew that the Reporter had associations with a particular political party and had frequented to our office with some pretext or other before my joining. Somebody said me, if i didnot give him something, he may go forward to publish False reports that may damage the reputation of our company. But, I decided to take the matter and I literally banged him and pooh-poohed his inefficiency as a reporter, who could not campaign for better street illuminations to prevent such accidents in his own area by taking his own example through awareness in his Newspaper. The reporter never dared to enter to my office again.
The above was a case at Micro Level where we can have a comparative advantage if we put in our logic & reasoning along with Boldness & Courage. But when we are dealing with more Macro Level issues, we might not be so much effective since the bribe factor is widely conditioned into the system. Along with it is the serious problem of RED – TAPISIM which force many private companies to take short cuts to meet their competitive advantage. Many people get into this Vicious Circle without being wanted. And once started it becomes a way of life.
The Views of Ash, Ravi, Zalak were bold and based on reality. And Perticularly i liked Ms. Ash’s – Guru’s example. It’s a story of Individual Triumph over 'License Raj'.
But there is also other film to watch out – ‘Nayak’. It is also a Common Mans Triumph over ‘Bribery Raj’ but, if you have the courage…..
Regards,
Jayesh Yohannan
I think this is a very eye opening discussion going on here and brave are those who post in their views whatsoever.
It’s really hard to sometimes decide which road to follow. For the sake of an Organisational Objective, Yes ! we have to undress our Moral & Ethics and negotiate the bitter Truth. And at the same time we want our employees to hold Personal & Financial Integrity to the highest.
We Sow as we Reap !
Organisations Laminate bribe as ‘Entertainment Expenses’ and those who Claim in that account, no further explanations are asked. No One really care to know whether the person has really spend that much or is he just cooking up. Just Live On!
We don’t know how Much Public Money is used to fill up one’s personal Privilage.
Once while I was posted in one of my assignments, I came to meet a Local Press Reporter who wanted to be given a Parlty Sum to finance his group to & fro Expenses for attending a press Meet. Also he was demanding service for his car which had been damaged due to an accident which happened for the lack of street lights. We all knew that the Reporter had associations with a particular political party and had frequented to our office with some pretext or other before my joining. Somebody said me, if i didnot give him something, he may go forward to publish False reports that may damage the reputation of our company. But, I decided to take the matter and I literally banged him and pooh-poohed his inefficiency as a reporter, who could not campaign for better street illuminations to prevent such accidents in his own area by taking his own example through awareness in his Newspaper. The reporter never dared to enter to my office again.
The above was a case at Micro Level where we can have a comparative advantage if we put in our logic & reasoning along with Boldness & Courage. But when we are dealing with more Macro Level issues, we might not be so much effective since the bribe factor is widely conditioned into the system. Along with it is the serious problem of RED – TAPISIM which force many private companies to take short cuts to meet their competitive advantage. Many people get into this Vicious Circle without being wanted. And once started it becomes a way of life.
The Views of Ash, Ravi, Zalak were bold and based on reality. And Perticularly i liked Ms. Ash’s – Guru’s example. It’s a story of Individual Triumph over 'License Raj'.
But there is also other film to watch out – ‘Nayak’. It is also a Common Mans Triumph over ‘Bribery Raj’ but, if you have the courage…..
Regards,
Jayesh Yohannan
Your views are well-said Jayesh.
Why not suggest solutions-- where to begin, how to begin & the direction to take?
And I can only repeat what I said earlier:the situation isn't in my control, but what's in MY control is MY RESPONSE to it. And participating in the corrupt act ISN'T THE ONLY possible response.
I recollect a line from an oldie telugu film song: The FIRST step is always alone.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
1637Why not suggest solutions-- where to begin, how to begin & the direction to take?
And I can only repeat what I said earlier:the situation isn't in my control, but what's in MY control is MY RESPONSE to it. And participating in the corrupt act ISN'T THE ONLY possible response.
I recollect a line from an oldie telugu film song: The FIRST step is always alone.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
hello there,
According to me, you will have to bribe the person to get ur work done this way or that way,so ask tell management frsnkly abut it and try to nigotiate on the bribe amount with the personnal, thats the most you can do to get your work done:icon10:
From India, Mumbai
According to me, you will have to bribe the person to get ur work done this way or that way,so ask tell management frsnkly abut it and try to nigotiate on the bribe amount with the personnal, thats the most you can do to get your work done:icon10:
From India, Mumbai
Hi All,
i am not an HR head- just a simple HR officer in an organisation, but i hate bribe, personally, i hate to give or take anything from anyone. it is a disgrace to society that there are people who thinks they need to survive with the bribe money. i am actuallly teaching a group of students aged 20-25, part time, and one of them told that, no matter what, bribe is necessary to survive. i was shocked, that boy has just started his career and already he is talking of bribe as a traditional and set thing. I will ask the same question - you all know that in Asia - Singapore's Corruption is ZERO - so if Singapore has arrived at this stage, then so can we all. let us try. one person can make a difference.
The Government need to chnage, menaing our politicians need to be more ethical in their behavior, they should not be elected for serving themselves or the constituents they want to bribe, but for the good. this is my opinion.
From Mauritius, Port Louis
i am not an HR head- just a simple HR officer in an organisation, but i hate bribe, personally, i hate to give or take anything from anyone. it is a disgrace to society that there are people who thinks they need to survive with the bribe money. i am actuallly teaching a group of students aged 20-25, part time, and one of them told that, no matter what, bribe is necessary to survive. i was shocked, that boy has just started his career and already he is talking of bribe as a traditional and set thing. I will ask the same question - you all know that in Asia - Singapore's Corruption is ZERO - so if Singapore has arrived at this stage, then so can we all. let us try. one person can make a difference.
The Government need to chnage, menaing our politicians need to be more ethical in their behavior, they should not be elected for serving themselves or the constituents they want to bribe, but for the good. this is my opinion.
From Mauritius, Port Louis
Greetings for the day!
Its not too difficult to handle such situations even in India. One can use RTI Act. And even then the issue isn't resolved and the official demands for bribe and delays in giving the relevant documents then just log on to Grievance Redress Mechanism in Government , it is a portal for public grievances against a Government of India employee. Believe me it really works.
We should not support these practices of bribery , especially we educated group should raise a voice against this and make better future for our comming generations.
Best of luck!
From India, Mumbai
Its not too difficult to handle such situations even in India. One can use RTI Act. And even then the issue isn't resolved and the official demands for bribe and delays in giving the relevant documents then just log on to Grievance Redress Mechanism in Government , it is a portal for public grievances against a Government of India employee. Believe me it really works.
We should not support these practices of bribery , especially we educated group should raise a voice against this and make better future for our comming generations.
Best of luck!
From India, Mumbai
Thanks Sateesh,
I have no problem with your view… It’s perfect as you said - since the situations undermining your decisions were different in your case and so it will be….And it will be so with many of our friends out there who deal with it daily over each cup of breakfast & Coffee.
And If you ask me about solutions.... I frankly have no clues…
But one thing.. Keep believing your value system and try minimizing the ‘Bribe’ wherever you can find it possible….
Never practice to involve these govt. officials for your personal objectives because I have seen people when they make a favour for a govt. official for their Organisational benefit, they try to use this connection for their own personal benefit regarding some matters. This will again give undue space for that official to be connected with you .. and wherever you go … the problem Follows ! ( like 'Hutch' ka 'Kutta' )
As I said before, if you have Long term association with a particular Department / Office in the Government for achieving your organizational benefits, try to bring an expert as a consultant, who had worked / is working in the same corridors (an existing Official may be preffered – since he will use his present links in the department for your organizations benefit) and utilize him for a partly sum of consulting fees. Give him some incentives if he performs a job with least Cost. This will get rid of unnecessary cash transactions.
Regards / Jayesh
I have no problem with your view… It’s perfect as you said - since the situations undermining your decisions were different in your case and so it will be….And it will be so with many of our friends out there who deal with it daily over each cup of breakfast & Coffee.
And If you ask me about solutions.... I frankly have no clues…
But one thing.. Keep believing your value system and try minimizing the ‘Bribe’ wherever you can find it possible….
Never practice to involve these govt. officials for your personal objectives because I have seen people when they make a favour for a govt. official for their Organisational benefit, they try to use this connection for their own personal benefit regarding some matters. This will again give undue space for that official to be connected with you .. and wherever you go … the problem Follows ! ( like 'Hutch' ka 'Kutta' )
As I said before, if you have Long term association with a particular Department / Office in the Government for achieving your organizational benefits, try to bring an expert as a consultant, who had worked / is working in the same corridors (an existing Official may be preffered – since he will use his present links in the department for your organizations benefit) and utilize him for a partly sum of consulting fees. Give him some incentives if he performs a job with least Cost. This will get rid of unnecessary cash transactions.
Regards / Jayesh
Vina has got the point very well.
All I can say to him/her is: Keep it up.
And YES Jayesh. You are right in the advice you mentioned. I have already been following it to the extent possible as mentioned below. But remember that EVERY situation is ALWAYS different…….but as long as one ensures that the COMMON FACTOR of ethics is maintained, the response will invariably be ethical. So it all depends on what the bottom-line EVERY INDIVIDUAL decides for himself/herself. A case in point here could be again the story of Satyam……..Raju’s bottomline was land, irrespective of the means. We know the rest of the story.
Most people have the typical 'crab mentality'.......meaning they can't see anyone to be different from them. Once they realise that a person is different they try to pull him/her down-for good or for bad [aren’t we doing the same thing…..trying to convince those who have no qualms about bribing that it’s wrong?]. And it's much easier to teach the bad than the good-since practising the good is pretty tough and the bad is very easy & convenient-more so given the basic human nature tending to lean towards the convenient & easier way of doing things.
Vina has quoted the right example--of S'pore. There's a saying in Sanskrit: Yatha raja, thatha praja-which means ‘as the ruler, so the ruled/follower’.
I am sure all would say—we can’t change our politicians. But look @ it this way---whatever the situation/position everyone of us is in-be it as a HR trainee or the Head of a Company or country-each has his/her own territory where he/she is the leader. Set your rules that HAVE to be followed within the limited environment that you are in-to the extent one can, since each of us has someone over our head to veto whatever/whichever we propose-the ultimate being HIM of course. With this attitude, one would have followed the right path to some extent at least. The difference will come about, however slowly...but it will surely come.
I know this sounds like a homily/lullabe/bhashan. But "where there's a will, there's a way". It all depends on WHAT YOU WANT TO WILL FOR [read para 1 above again].
I have had a few employees in the past who suggested to give in to the demands of the HR guys in client companies.....the end-result has always been they went out and the company still survived. To the limited extent where I can practice the core ethics & values, I do. And in situations where I can't, I look for ways where I can avoid getting corrupted, RATHER THAN looking for ways to take the short-cut. From exp, I can say, most often finding such ethical ways is POSSIBLE--WE ONLY HAVE TO LOOK FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.
And to those pessimistic ones on this forum, let me ask you one thing: if you are married, begin to tell your kids that it’s OK to lie-if in an inconvenient situation, and don't bother to speak the truth. Let's see how many will readily agree.....I bet not one. Since all know "as you sow, so you reap-in all probability, their kids might begin to use this idea against their parents themselves. And when this is wrong, I fail to understand how they can justify corruption.
Let's not quote the example of others to get into the wrong direction.....if at all we wish to quote, let's learn from the examples of the ones who follow the right path.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
All I can say to him/her is: Keep it up.
And YES Jayesh. You are right in the advice you mentioned. I have already been following it to the extent possible as mentioned below. But remember that EVERY situation is ALWAYS different…….but as long as one ensures that the COMMON FACTOR of ethics is maintained, the response will invariably be ethical. So it all depends on what the bottom-line EVERY INDIVIDUAL decides for himself/herself. A case in point here could be again the story of Satyam……..Raju’s bottomline was land, irrespective of the means. We know the rest of the story.
Most people have the typical 'crab mentality'.......meaning they can't see anyone to be different from them. Once they realise that a person is different they try to pull him/her down-for good or for bad [aren’t we doing the same thing…..trying to convince those who have no qualms about bribing that it’s wrong?]. And it's much easier to teach the bad than the good-since practising the good is pretty tough and the bad is very easy & convenient-more so given the basic human nature tending to lean towards the convenient & easier way of doing things.
Vina has quoted the right example--of S'pore. There's a saying in Sanskrit: Yatha raja, thatha praja-which means ‘as the ruler, so the ruled/follower’.
I am sure all would say—we can’t change our politicians. But look @ it this way---whatever the situation/position everyone of us is in-be it as a HR trainee or the Head of a Company or country-each has his/her own territory where he/she is the leader. Set your rules that HAVE to be followed within the limited environment that you are in-to the extent one can, since each of us has someone over our head to veto whatever/whichever we propose-the ultimate being HIM of course. With this attitude, one would have followed the right path to some extent at least. The difference will come about, however slowly...but it will surely come.
I know this sounds like a homily/lullabe/bhashan. But "where there's a will, there's a way". It all depends on WHAT YOU WANT TO WILL FOR [read para 1 above again].
I have had a few employees in the past who suggested to give in to the demands of the HR guys in client companies.....the end-result has always been they went out and the company still survived. To the limited extent where I can practice the core ethics & values, I do. And in situations where I can't, I look for ways where I can avoid getting corrupted, RATHER THAN looking for ways to take the short-cut. From exp, I can say, most often finding such ethical ways is POSSIBLE--WE ONLY HAVE TO LOOK FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.
And to those pessimistic ones on this forum, let me ask you one thing: if you are married, begin to tell your kids that it’s OK to lie-if in an inconvenient situation, and don't bother to speak the truth. Let's see how many will readily agree.....I bet not one. Since all know "as you sow, so you reap-in all probability, their kids might begin to use this idea against their parents themselves. And when this is wrong, I fail to understand how they can justify corruption.
Let's not quote the example of others to get into the wrong direction.....if at all we wish to quote, let's learn from the examples of the ones who follow the right path.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Hi Prashant,
Before taking a descision, please always remember that this is an official work and not your personal waork.
If the governnment official asks for a bribe to get things done, first escalate this to your higher-ups and if the senior management has no issues with it, just go ahead and bribe the official and the get the work done ASAP.
Remember, in today's world, TIME IS MONEY. You should not delay any official work just because of this small issue.
As per official expenses is concerned, the expenses incurred in bribing the govt official can be shown in as misclleneous expenses like treating govt official officials in hotels for an official dinner or an offcial party etc.
Regards---
Debashish Pal
From India, Delhi
Before taking a descision, please always remember that this is an official work and not your personal waork.
If the governnment official asks for a bribe to get things done, first escalate this to your higher-ups and if the senior management has no issues with it, just go ahead and bribe the official and the get the work done ASAP.
Remember, in today's world, TIME IS MONEY. You should not delay any official work just because of this small issue.
As per official expenses is concerned, the expenses incurred in bribing the govt official can be shown in as misclleneous expenses like treating govt official officials in hotels for an official dinner or an offcial party etc.
Regards---
Debashish Pal
From India, Delhi
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