Raghunath_bv
General Manager-hr & Admin
Chum
Hr Manager
Sharmila Yadav
Head- Hr/admin
Chandan2ykpankaj
Manager - Hr
Shefali.saxena
Hr Professional
Krishnavat75
Consultant - Hr
Malikjs
Gm (hr)
Mnj.tiwari
Service
Premson
Hr Executive
Sam_dave
Personal Relationship Management
Sujeesha
Service
Ishtiyaque Khan
Recruitment, Line, Er, Reporting
Jayesh Yohannan
Hr Generalist Functions
Cnjayaanandh
Hr Generalist
Jmratna
Hr Professional
+3 Others

Dear All,
I need your advise for the below mentioned problem.
one of my female employee is carrying(she is in her 1 month of pregnancy)doctor has advised her to take bed rest,so she asked asked for 15-20days leave whihc we have allowed. Now as i know her condition i m not sure wether she will come back or not.
If she asks us that she willbe on long leave with LOP and want to continue with us,but we cannot afford to give her long coz we dont have any other resource to her work.
So all that i want suggestion from you ppl is can we leaglly ask a person to discontinue(if she asks for a long leave).
Thanks a ton in advance
20th May 2009 From India, Bangalore
Do not punish women employee for pregnancy...Almighty will not forgive you for this crime...Business can not be proespered at the cost of humanity...
Employ some temporary employee in her place until she recover you can ask employees to bring someone who wants to take temporary job to replace pregnant employee.
Partho
20th May 2009 From Saudi Arabia
Hi,
I very much agree with Partha.
This is something which is not in the hands of that female employee of yours.
Probably this being initial phase of her pregnancy, she is facing some helath issues.You can create one temporary position in the company and keep that employee as a back up. In case your preganant employee comes back to work,its good for the organisation also there will be someone to share her work load. Moreover she'll also need a break at the time of delivery for few months. During that period this temporary position person can be very helpful as by that time he'll be totally trained in the particular skills.
Please dont remove any pregnant emplyee. SOmeone who has served the company with full loyality and sincerity always need the support of the company in her hard times.:)
Regards,
Hrefox
20th May 2009 From India, Hyderabad
Dear Partha,
Appreciable comment and good view. All the best!
Dear Hrefox,
I understand you post. Where as, according to the employment law of India , Termination in the account of pregnancy can cause to imprisonment.
In the view of humanity and respect to the women I suggest:
1. Possibility of working from home.
2. Possibility of working on alternate days.
3. Explain the situation and explain the chances of getting back to the job.
Maternity is about 1.6 years, so plan according to that.
Regards,
shiv
20th May 2009 From India, Bangalore
Hi Ratna,
Men may come men may go, but thee is forever! you cannot predict the future. In this case, the female seems to be physically weak, and as u said it is her first month of her pergnancy, sure she vl not b back for the nxt one year!
Pls take it for granted, you are not punishing her by giving termination, but u r goin to give employment for one more resource. This is very sensitive issue, whr company is in helpless situation. By heart as human being, we cud feel sympathy and one step more - empathy too, but, business / work shud not stop for a single person.
Ratna, you have 2 options, one is tat try for temporary replacement and the other is that, meet her in person, explain her the situation, counsel her, support her mentally and financially, make her to resign. As I said before, future is unpredictable, u dunno wat will happn in future, who knws u may recruit her again for the same position!!! Ball is in your court.
20th May 2009 From India, Mangaluru
Hi Ratna,
Would suggest that you keep the person on rolls but check if there is any way she can work from her home. Also you can hire a project trainee to help in the deparments work or hire someone for a temporary basis.
21st May 2009 From India, Madras
dear i too agree with mr chum.we are doing business and it is not possible to give this much long leave. tks j s malik
21st May 2009 From India, Delhi
Dear Chum, Malik & Ravi,
Then why Human Resource Management exists in the organization? Pink slip is not the final conclusion. Is there any other possibility of retaining and supporting the employee.
Really looking for the reply.........:-D
regards,
Shiv
21st May 2009 From India, Bangalore
hi,
as far as providing alternate options are concerned Shiva is correct and for alternate things Chum is also correct. I dont agree Mr. Ravi that emotions dont have place...instead these are the emotions which we wlways transact.
For this case alternate options are fine as long as work do not suffer. It also depends upon company's outlook. Legally we shuld not do anything wrong. Please look at the matter first, see the report and the information why Dr. recommonded rest since begining of pregnancy. I dont know structure of ur organisation, I mean whether work can be shared or not...things are situational and laso depends upon gravity of that lady....
we need to handle compassionately and also make sure that work should not affect. Its only about legally correct things as well as our approach to the issue.
Regards,
21st May 2009 From India, Mumbai
:icon6:
I Am surprised when people working in HR talks of in human actions.
Motherhood is something for which a woman should not be penalized. Any good organsation should work on the principle of equal oppurtunity and when you are thinking of teminating female employee just because her biological condition is not permitting her to do so..(Dont boast of bieng a humane org.)
Pls explore other options first and termination should be the last thing on mind.
Provide some work from home opputunity
Half day work half day salary...
Temperarory deputation of some other employee.
Regards,
YS
21st May 2009 From India, Chandigarh
Hi there,

Giving almost 15-20 days of leave for a pregnant lady is appreciated

In case as u assume the person might ask for a long leave of LOP,
Before she approaches u,

- Check if the person is dependent on the job
- Just do a little of background verification (that would help u to find out if she is much dependant) like friends and collegues and community websites would help
- If she is dependant, try to find if she could be given the work from home option or
- find out a replacement in contract basis(at this time of recession, we can certainly find one)
- request the person to share her knowledge with the person for sometime
- so probably in case if she is unable to continue with this, the other person would be taken into rolls and the company is not a loser.
- But make the employee feel that she would be assured of the job as she returns in the commited time (since she might not share the knowledge required) in case if she has planned to quit
- try to make a good rapport with the new joinee and the pregnant employee
- But let the agreement be in writing

Others, what u say...?

Regards,
Priya
21st May 2009 From India, Madras
I think you should appoint someone on contract basis or else go for outsourcing agencies who gives temporary staff.
21st May 2009 From India, Mumbai
You can explore other options like: Allow work from home Let her become part timer or work for half day
21st May 2009 From India, Delhi
Dear JMRATNA,
Please let all the members know that whats the decision that you or management have made on this issue.
This is very important as, We find only questions and most of the times we miss with the decision what made?
Regards,
Shiv
21st May 2009 From India, Bangalore
Thats tru Shiv n Priya...
even I feel many times that after a lot of sharing and discussion we end with not knowing even outcomes...though sharing will not get stopped but knowing outcomes will help alot in knowledge building...
these all are good HR cases.
Regds,
Rahul
21st May 2009 From India, Mumbai
Decision shall depend solely on the merits of the case.Sanctioning leave is the prerogative of the management and if possible on humanitarian grounds leave may be considered or otherwise report for work and if doesnot report initiate disciplinary action which may lead to termination of employment.
As per Maternity Benefit act ,for non-ESI ,ie., Rs.10,000/-gross & above company will pay wages for 84 days which in the case of ESI covered ESIC will extend 84 days cash benefit.
When an employee is on ESI leave termination cannot be implicated.
21st May 2009 From India, Madras
Dear Ratna,

Even we are not aware of that what type of business you have, but one thing is there that there are a well established HR department is there. Being an HR - representative you have to do one thing first; you meet personally with concerned associate and try to understand their genuine problems if possible consult their doctor also. Than make a note of it and convince your immediate boss related her realistic possible facilities that you can arrange with available resources. Always remember one thing that any extra cost is hamper you’re helping intention. In my knowledge after discussing with their doctor you have reach to a conclusion what necessary action you have to take. May be there is possible chances that nothing will required at your end. The concerned employee is more conscious about their health and family. Might be chances that this is the initial complication and have settled automatically.

21st May 2009 From India, Gurgaon
Hi Ratna,

There will be many implications on the decisions, if you aware yourself the nature of the Job – Criticality and functions, that the lady is in (if she had completed 80 days in service).

CASE A - If the Lady in question is much more crucial to the end process of your value chain, then I will advice you not to take any hasty steps to settle her account. I would rather prefer to go with ‘Chum’s advice but minus - ‘counsel for resignation’. Give her scope, since there will many psychological matters associated with the first ‘delivery ‘. Adjust her Paid Leaves (if any). You can also take the necessary permission and work with your ‘System Administration’ department to install the access & security features to her Home Computer Terminal / Laptop to enable her to work from home.

In the mean time ask her to speak to her doctor to provide an approximate ‘Date of Delivery’ and this will help you to manage her Key Jobs during the Maternity schedule and also her Maternity Leaves.

CASE B - But if the Lady is not that much crucial and her absence in the team can be managed by sharing her responsibility to other team mates, then please do it. You can also take the advice as ‘Ms. Sonali’ had voiced – if you are confused on how to allocate the work in the already optimized work scenario, but again, if you have any existing contract with any Manpower service provider Firms. Keep her in LOP’s if she don’t have any Paid Leaves. Counsel her to attend to work and Provide some alternate work which does not increase her fatigue / work pressure.

Let’s as an HR provide our genuine concern to employees working with us and create an un-biased working environment.

With regards,

Jayesh Yohannan
21st May 2009
Hello JM Ratna,

I would suggest please refer to The Maternity Benefit Act,1961

And would suggest to look at it more on humanitarian grounds.

Also the employer and the employee could mutually come to a consensus.

Thank you
21st May 2009 From India, Pune
Dear Ratna,
Female employee had just taken 1 month maternity leave. It's her right to take 84 days maternity leave + 1 month leave if any problem arise due to pregnancy. you should give her above mentioned leave and take decision afterward based upon situation at that time.
As a HR person we should help female employees, thinking/trying to find quick fix will not help in long run. you should personally talk to employee and ask her what does she mean by long leave(How much)
Terminating or pursuing female employee to put down paper (during her maternity leave) is not only legally but ethically and morally wrong.
21st May 2009 From India, Hyderabad
Hi Ratna,
I can understand your difficulty, in case thee in no long leave can be considered, your can give extra slary package may three months or one one month depending upon the company policies, and ater the said employee wishes to join back again based on her peformance, you consider her in the same dept or some other dept.
This could be the only legal solution to your problem and make a letter in a manner, conducive to both the parties.
22nd May 2009 From India, Bangalore
Dear All

A similar query was also posted by me but CiteHR has not published the same. I have gone thru the maternity benefit Act wherein only 12 weeks leave provision is there apart from that one month leave on the basis of certificate from doctor for illness due to pregnancy is there. But leave for early pregnancy stage is not mentioned in act. I have come to know that may be a bill towards same is under consideration for 09 month maternity leave. Respecting maternity we in HR should understand the feelings and physical pain of a pregnant woman. Mr Ravi I would suggest that you should think broad on this, this could be a retention factor for lady employees.

Few Points to over come the situation.

Employee should discuss the Maternity Leave Plan in detail with Boss
HOD of function should inform HR about her Maternity Leave Plan well in advance
HOD should distribute her work among team or should go for temp. resource
Removal for maternity cause is punishable under Act.
Work from Home is good option
Provide her Laptop with data card, if she is handling quite important role
For early stage she should be given Leave without Pay if leaves are not there in her account.
Our moral support will help her to resume fast on her duty.
If a pregnant woman is there in office she should be given due respect and priority on public place i.e., cafeteria, meeting place e.t.c
Display of an abstract will educate your female employees on same.
Apart from Leaves there is a provision of Medical Bonus of Rs1000/- which should be given fairly.

Regards,

Shiv
22nd May 2009 From India, New Delhi
Dear Shiv,
I agree with your statement. Yes, we HR people are here to retain and support the employees, but we also hav to ensure the smooth runnin of business processes. Rahul. Priya and Jayesh hav given good options, I would b really happy if those options come to real, and this is an optimistic view, but, think, if those options goes fail, whr management is not ready to consider, thr comes the realistic view and tat is wat I hav told - b prepared for any result.
As I said before, ball is in the court of Ratna, it is her charm hw she takes the issue. Think in pessimistic way, such tat one vl get the picture of negative consequences of issue and act realistic way- preparing ourselvz to confornt any situation, and this is the optimistic way to tackle an issue.
Wat say Shiv?:icon1:
22nd May 2009 From India, Mangaluru
Dear All,
I agree with all your view and comments, Please suggest If I agree with her to continue as lop mean, how many months I can able to show as lop in Attendence, Payroll..... The government bodies like pf, esi and labour they are aspect the situation to maintained more then six month as lop...in reg...
Kindly suggest..
Regards
A. Satheesh
9840982366
22nd May 2009 From India, Madras
Dear Shiv,
I agree with your statement. Yes, we HR people are here to retain and support the employees, but we also hav to ensure the smooth runnin of business processes. Rahul. Priya and Jayesh hav given good options, I would b really happy if those options come to real, and this is an optimistic view, but, think, if those options goes fail, whr management is not ready to consider, thr comes the realistic view and tat is wat I hav told - b prepared for any result.
As I said before, ball is in the court of Ratna, it is her charm hw she takes the issue. Think in pessimistic way, such tat one vl get the picture of negative consequences of issue and act realistic way- preparing ourselvz to confornt any situation, and this is the optimistic way to tackle an issue.
Wat say Shiv?:icon1:
22nd May 2009 From India, Mangaluru
I agree with your view Chum,
But, Removing the concern employee from company roles may impact on many other internal costumers as well. Hr should make the management to stand for employees while undergoing such problems.
This is a given opportunity for HR to develop & inject a strong retention strategy among employees.
I agree with your point "Business".
Regards,
Shiv
22nd May 2009 From India, Bangalore
Dear Shiv,
Yes, I do feel so....we feel personally for all the issue n giv suggestions but we are not really updated with the decision made.
Dear Ratna,
Do let us update. So tat, we may get different view of hw to tackle the problem.
Keep rockin guyz...:icon1:
22nd May 2009 From India, Mangaluru
Dear Shiv,
Yes, rightly said.."Hr should make the management to stand for employees while undergoing such problems". To add this, I wud say HR should also b ready to convince n support the concerned employee, if things go sad. HR should be a bridge between the management n employees. Let us see wat Ratna is gonna do.:icon1:
22nd May 2009 From India, Mangaluru
Yes Chum, Let us see, and lets make a practice of requesting for the reality. Regards, Shiv
22nd May 2009 From India, Bangalore
Legally we cant not terminate any female for ailment due to her pregnancy. There are two Acts - ESI and Maternity benefits Act and neither allow this.
Some of the matured suggestions mentioned above may be adopted.
I do not agree with Tension lene ka nahin, dene ka
Agar har koi yeh sonche to har koi ko tension milega kisi aur se.
If grand son pays the dues of father to iska matlab yeh nahin ke hum karz leten jayen meregrand father ka kar to phir mujhe dena hoga. WE should have a positive view our lives as well as of others.
Regards,
Shabbir
22nd May 2009 From India, New Delhi
My comments on the issue is as follows:
*) As per the Maternity Benefit Act , the Management is under the obligation to give the leave. Over and above that it is upto the magnanimity of the Management, which might take a decision based on the case without precedence for the future and after knowing the value of the employee concerned to the organisation. But caution should be exercised that it should not be quoted as a matter of right in future.
*) Other option open is to find out the possibility of making her work from home or keep the options of flexi-working time open for her
*) If the possibility of giving advance leave against the leave to be earned in future exists in the organisation, the same can be given by taking an undertaking from the employee stating that in case of her leaving the company before the leave is earned amount equivalent to the advance leave would be paid to the organisation by the employee
Premson
22nd May 2009 From India, Mangaluru
I agree to what Partha says. A lil empathy is wat she needs...... Is that so difficult....... :?: Normally organizations are known to encourage job rotation only to tide over such situations
22nd May 2009 From India
Dear Jmratna,
You are not supposed to say a person to discontinue legally.
Case 1:-
Access what is the worth of the employee – if she really a valuable asset of your organization then allow leave to her as “Leave Without Pay” and higher another person on temporary basis.
Case 2:-
If she is not worthy then don’t get emotional ask frankly that company will not allow her for long leave – ask her after her recovery if there will be any vacancy she may apply and join.
Regards
Pankaj Chandan
22nd May 2009 From India, New delhi
Dear Ratna,
We all had given our inputs on the topic, but end of the day you have to decide with descreation what best you can do in favour of organisation.
"Remember Employees makes Organisation, Organisation doesn't manufacture employees"
Last but not least suggestion : Ask Pregnant employee to send you all relevant medical documents photocopies in support of her complete bed rest advised by doctor. If it is necessary plz allow her to proceed on leave without pay untill she plan her maternity leave.
Regards,.....Shiv
22nd May 2009 From India, New Delhi
Hi Chum,
Thanks for the appreciation. I think this forum has a great opportunity and we - You, Rahul, Priya, Ash, Peer and not to mention our all other CHR friends, who find guidance through exploring various options & ideas shared through these discussions will definitely contribute to the changing HR Scenario in India.
Also i will take a opportunity to our mentors in the likness of Mr. Mallik & numerous other's (forgive me if i am not mentioning their names here) who had been in this forum guiding many future HR Leaders.
Its not necessary that everybody knows everything.. but for all other thing's we have you & Cite HR !
regards / Jayesh

22nd May 2009
Dear,
The best option is to hire a temp. employee for a period of six month (not on payroll) and tell the person that its a temp. job when our employee is back if you are having anything in hand for the temp employee you can give her a work and in a condition if your employee wont come back till a year you can make the temp employee permanant.

As a female i can suggest this thing only and human resources means to understand human only

I hope Mr Ravi got the point commenting is easy but you shuld comment right .......

We have to understand the situation think abt a woman condition then you can better understand the situation .Pregnancy is god gift

Its is a same case happen in our company we have new FRONT OFFCIE EXECUTIVE at that time she is one month pregnant and we r not aware with the thing and even she have not told us when in 5 month i asked her she told she is 5 month pregnant she told us she will continue upto 8 month and after words require 6 month leave in our leave policy we dnt have any paid maternity leave and when ever she require leave 10 days 15 days we have provided the leave, but the reception is empty so we appoint a new girl and tell the new girl she is only for 6 month she is ready for the job and we appointed when our old receptionist is 8 month pregnant she trained the new girl very well , but now our old receptionist till dated does come we r not facing any problem bec our new receptionist is trained and when she come back she can join us and we keep that temp employee in any other dept .

Problem solved

Dear now recssion is gng on so you will find people easily for short term period everyone need money at all.:):):)

Thanks ,
Sharmila
Manager HR
23rd May 2009 From India, Delhi
Dear All,
Termination in case of pregnancy is not illegal.
Now, when lady is not good with health during pregnancy she cannot be forced to work and neither can be terminated.
Another thing is the solution:-
1) Ask her to give the medical report of her check ups.
2) Ask the doctor to whom she consults for the approximate time she'll need?
3) Ask the employee if she would be able to carry out work from home?
4) Look at the requirement of her work and if its critical get a project trainee and get your work done.
If the work is not so critical and requires less of skills and knowledge we can ask some other employee to share the load of her work.
This would save the cost to the company and also help another person to sense the responsibility.
I hope this should make the things clear for us.
Remember: We cannot TERMINATE an employee because of his/her maternity leaves.

23rd May 2009 From India, Madurai
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