Rajsawster
Hr Specialist - Policy,compehsation &
Rashidmusa
Compensation And Policy
Samdee
Working
Mehul Mehta
Hr Manager
Manish.A.S
Recruitments
Sonic777
It Recruiter
Consultant_amit
Strategy, Planning, Knowledge Management
+4 Others


Hello,
Greetings for the day to All!

I am an MBA HR (2006 pass out) from Pune University (not the top 20 colleges in India) and Graduate in Commerce.

Presently, having 2 years experience in the IT recruitment industry. I have worked mostly for the Fortune 100 IT Company as Recruitment executive through one of the renowned consulting firm in India. The pay package is very low as per the experience and education gained.

I would like to grow to the position of HR strategy and HR management for a business unit in a IT company. Can some one inform me what will be the steps that I need to take so that I can progress little faster on that track?

Will doing an executive MBA course from any of the top 10 MBA colleges in India help or should I be progressing in the same line by changing company.
After all when you apply in a company there are 2 factors they ask
1. Which premier B school are you pass out from ?
2. Ok your last pay package was X so at the max as per industry standards we can pay you a 30% raise.
Nobody seems to see the experience level. There are people who are with less knowledge but command higher pay packages just because they are pass out from a premier B school.

Can somebody guide me ?

Regards,
Shruti.


18th December 2008 From India, Madras
Hello Shruti,

This is irony INTELLECTUALLY BANKRUPTCY of Indian Corporate HR, which is way behind the global practices in compensation managememt and do not practise scientific method of job evaluation to determine the relative worth or value of the job on the basis of job family, job weightages, job classifications and degree of factors.

Worldover specially western world they practise following methods:
1. Hay Guide Chart-Profile Method
2. Watson Wyatt Schemes
i. Employee Point Factor Plan
ii. European Factor Plan
iii. Computerise Job Evaluation Plan
iv. Competency Based Job Evaluation
3. KPMG Management Consulting Scheme
Equate/Medquate model
4. Pricewaterhouse Cooper Scheme
Pricewaterhouse Profile Methodology

WHAT IS PRICED? THIS IS BIGGEST DILEMMA BEFORE INDIAN HR.
QUALIFICATION OR INSTITUTE OR CANDIDATE OR JOB IS CHALLENGE BEFORE INDIAN CORPORATE.

THIS IS DUE TO THE B-SCHOOL/PREMIER INSTITUTE PARASITES SCANDAL MONGERING AND PROPOGANDA OF THEIR OWN INTEREST RATHER THAN PROMOTING WORLDS BEST PRACTICES IN INDIAN CORPORATES.

Same B-Schools and Premier Schools graduates failed in Indian Corporates to implement such know-how because they are basically highflyers and offered fancy education in these B-Schools and Premiser Institutes in India.

Let me clarify there is no official approved or valid B-School or Premier School definitions this is bogus norms of scandal mongers to make education as Fancy Medium..

Education Is Not Slave Of Such Private Limited Institutes. Education Promote Scholars And Nobel Laureates.

Nobel Prizes are not awarded to the B-Schools or Premier Institutes but awarded to the individual laureates and scholars. All Indian Nobel Laureates comes from Formal University System. Always keep in mind Institutes are not norms but the students are parameters of success of any institutes quality education.

These Nobel laureates or nominees obviously Does Not Came From Such Schools from India. But They Come From Universities Affiliated To University Grant Commission Who Award Degrees Whether Bachelors Or Masters Degree.

These so-called B-Schools or Premier Institutes Does not Have Authority To Award Degrees Because They Are Not Empowered And Recognized As University Or Substitute To Formal University Education.

For Advance Studies And Overseas Jobs Opportunities Only Education from Formal Approved University and Degrees Are Valid.
For immigration to Australia,Canada,NewZealand etc, points are awarded to qualification from approved universities only. The same qualification is validated by the agency or association of professionals to certify that the qualifications are valid and approved and equivalent to the host nation university standard.

The Government has mechanism to approve and validate the University in India. Such As University Grant Commission Exist Under Constitution Of India Is Empowered To Recognize And Approve University Education In India Is Only Valid For Overseas Job And Advance Studies...

There is no top 10 top 20 top 1000 like fortune 500 kind of norms for education institutes. And this is not global practice it's only myths spread by the Indian scandal mongers.

Institutes Who Is Making Propaganda To Mislead Most Of Candidates And Waste Their Time And Eat Their Money For Nothing.

Please Read This Carefully To Become Wiser And Knowing The Facts.

Badlu..
19th December 2008 From Saudi Arabia
Hi Bro,

You have rightly pointed out the weakness in corporate HR practices in India which is being mostly dominated by the rumors and propoganda business where they does not stand in global perspectives.

Still Indian HR practices are revolving arround subjective terminologies and nothing has been done to establish the pragmatic approach towards achieving objective norms as HR practices.

Basically When I finished my MIRPM and went to UK I find it dificult to chase with HR Issues and comply with management's HR agenda. Most prevelent basic architectural HR practices in the west, I never heard or witnessed in Indian companies in those days.

Most of terms were meaningless for example what value and utility Job Descriptions in Indian corporate has beyond justifying employees position in the company?

Whereas in the west its mandatory by laws to have job description, on the basis of job description job analysis being done to further evaluate the job for market pricing of jobs.
Compensation survey's being regularly conducted to adjust the median of market price and strategies are developed to attract, retain and reward best talent in the market.
Performance Appraisals are religiously practices with forced distrubution merit increase in percentages for achieving different level of performances as well defined policy.
But in India we experienced annual performance appraisal used as an instrument as annual rituals only to criticise employee and frustrate him with meagre amount as increment for even best performances may people have difference of opinions and jump to critisize this point but fact remains with some exceptions.

Global HR practices have hardly any linkages with Indian HR practices...

I never find convincing the use of Yoga, Psychometric Test has benefited Indian Industry in terms of percentage improvement in employee selection,fitness or psychological improvements in yeilding greater results as stimuleus tools ....no proof or research has been done on this subject just blind faith isname of this HR games in India.

B-Schools and Premier Institutes Business are big misleading concept only prelevent in India as we don't see in west here all Universities are carrying same degree of weightages. No discrimination is allowed by law on the basis of false propoganda and anykind of cheating formula to rate University greater than another.

Such discriminatory practices are illigal and offence.Even in US its not viable Equal Employmen Opportunity Commission has authority to take action against such discriminations on the basis of favortism to one institute not allowed and punishable.

Basically, In India the genesis of such practices in Indian Corporate come from fudel system when "Chartur Varana" of social strata for example Skhytriya, Brahmin, Vyashya, Shudra was in practised as caste system.

THis B-School and Premier Instutite has same foundation of mideveal age philosophy..

This is Ridiculous and pitty of Indian Corporate and shame for Academicians as well as socalled low caliber bias Intellectuals from such institutes and B-schools who promotes this principles into Indian Corporates.

Rashid Musa

19th December 2008 From Saudi Arabia
Greetings,

Thanks for your insight both Mr.Badlooser and Mr.Rahsid. After long time I find something worth reading and valuable to HR fraternity as an eye opener.

we see manay touts arrround us spreading lot of misconceptions and playing rumors to make propoganda of B-Schols and Premier Institutes nusiance but this is fitting reply for those who take other HR Experts and progessional for granted just because they do not open their mouth to expose myths of these B-Schools and Premier Institutes touts..

Well done and we need to speak and speak loudly against such virus campaign for mideveal age discrimination practices in profesional fields. This is example of Corrupt Indian HR practice..... Grading by Hindu Manu Script Social Strata Concept of Chatur Varana in to 21st Century Professional Domain.....Very Claver tricks to promote same ideologies through back door entry to get recognition.

This Bad Practice and against the Norms of Global Ethical Values for Intellectual Property Recognition..to Origional manu script and creators or inventors

good job

Raj
20th December 2008 From Saudi Arabia
Hi Shruti, Badlu, Rashid and Raj

I agree that the current HR practices of organizations and the salary packages given are not based on the capability of the person but on the BRAND STAMP that the person carries. Specially of the Graduating or Post graduation college

A typical HR Recruitment consultant fresher across in the IT industry in Bangalore gets in the range of 1.50 to 2.25 LPA
If that person has a 2 plus years of the experience then it becomes 2.5 LPA + incentives ( which are so meager that you can not even treat your friends in that minuscule amount )

Now considering the corporate salary surveys that take place across in all kinds of business magazines etc

A HR MT ( Management Trainee ) from a tier 2 B school gets a campus recruitment package that starts from 3.5 to 6.5 LPA depending on the college negotiation and relations with the company.
A HR MT ( Management Trainee ) from a tier 1 B school ( I never understand the category of Tier 1 and 2 though ) gets anything that starts from 6.5 LPA to 11.00 LPA ( again Depends )
Now if you have any Relevant ( that again is a Pandora's box ) experience you can negotiate for 1-3 lakhs more too.

Now considering that the figures in the magazines are manipulated even if by 30 %, the the salary figures are still very large.

Isn't it strange that these are the same ppl in B schools who know lesser about the corporate world reality facts and more about the bookish laws and quote Maslow and other theories in the theire speech which I term as "Management Bakwaas ".

It really makes very clear a fact that

" The Amount of Salary you earn is not at all proportional to the Hard work or experience you have but is directly and exponentially proportional to the Management Bakwaas that you can Do "

I do not tell that MBA degrees do not teach anything but there are very few people who have done their Management degrees to learn and grow their skills. Most of the people are those who either have been prey to the lure of
1. Mummy Daddy pressure of getting into a B school and getting out of it with a FAT PACKAGE
2. Getting a ready made job in hand from campus since they are heirs of a great branded B school even if they know anything or not
3. Getting a nice bride or groom who will look at an MBA as a well settled person.
4. Baki log jaa rahe hain MBA karne behti ganga mein haath main bhi dho leta hoon.

So bottom line comes as if you wanna earn more Get into a BIG B School that features in the top 20, 30 list of all magazines and walk out it with a job and Fat Package

God knows when this B School bubble will burst like the Stock Market Bubble which bursted due to recession!!!!!!
20th December 2008 From India, Bangalore
I am also agreed on badlooser ... this explaination abt B-skools Vs. Universities/approved Institutions' HR courses was required to open an eyes of HR heads of corporate sectors in India.
20th December 2008 From India, Ahmadabad
hey friends!!!
CANT WE PPL DO SOMTHING ABOUT IT WE ALL KNOW... THS IS THE SCENARIO......SO ATLEAST WE ALL MEMBERS SHOULD DO SOMTHING ABOUT IT SO THAT THIS CN BE CHANGED EVERYTG IS POSSIBLE IF WE ALL BECOME ONE!!! ISNT!!!!.......PLEASE LETS NT DISCUSS BUT LETS DO SOMETHING COZ IM ALSO SUFFERING FROM THE SAME PROBLEM AND REALY BUGGED UP NOW I WANT CHANGE THT TOO BIGG ONEEE!!!!!!
REGARDS
SEEMA
21st December 2008 From India, Delhi
The new economic liberalization has industrialized the higher education system which is driven by the purchasing power of the customers not by the intellectual capabilities of the buyer. The economic paradigm has changed the philosophy of the education in India on following principles. Many private limited B-Schools and Premier Institutes mushroomed all over India.
1. Privatization of Education
2. Financial Autonomy of Education
3. Establishing Education as an Industry
Financial autonomy is foundation of this new-era privatization of education as industry. The fundamental objectives for privatized educational industry is to increase production of more Diploma and Certified Courses Graduates and sales them into market. All so-called private limited B-Schools and Premier Institutes are financially autonomous and provide private education because their syllabus is not as per University Grant Commission guidelines.

But the fundamental educational of graduates who go to these private limited B-Schools and Premier Institutes comes from same formal Universities. Therefore, credit goes to the University and not to private limited B-Schools or Premier Institutes who just tag their name to University Degree with Post Graduate Certification which camouflage to hijack knowledge building exercise of University.

It is therefore there is vast difference in validity of private limited education and University Degree in the real world for overseas employment, immigration to another country for permanent residency status or going for advance studies or research to universities abroad.

If such questions are being asked in interview candidates must have these answers to clear the doubts of interviewer.

BADLU
22nd December 2008 From Saudi Arabia
I read all the comments and is very much informative.
This post has offered insight to peoples for distinguishing between real good quality and standard education practises by indian University against private limited financially autonomous institutes who make loud voices and yelling from tower to catch peoples attention to divert real objectives of education.
No institutes produce Nobel Laureates but the genius intellectuals are grown within themselfs with the circumstances around them by developing their ability to judge and react on the issues. That means experience matters every graduates are at par while he is fresh and inexperience and take time to prove his metal....
This is good information on how to avoid false propoganda and commercial gimmicks from being victimized by socalled B-Schools and Premier Institutes in the field of education specially in India..
Abraham
23rd December 2008 From Saudi Arabia
Greetings to all respondents on this post.

I am surprised to see this post being on site since one week being responded and visited by over 300 members but the person SONIC777 named Shruti has no respons to these comments.

Is this member SONIC777 nemed Shruti is also dubious identity like B-Schools and Premier Institutes..........
Warm Regards

Rashid
24th December 2008 From Saudi Arabia
Hi Rashid,
Even if she is dubious she has come out with one very important aspect which effects all HR Professionals at some level.So guess we must welcome such a post.
And all thanks to Badlu and Rashid to give their valuable inputs.
24th December 2008 From India, Mumbai
Hi Rashid, Badloser, Raj, Amit and all those who have posted comments on the post query

I would like to thanks all the seniors for their valuable contribution on my query. I am actually trying to analyze the current scenario of the B schools and their fat package strategy against the already existing experienced HR personnel in the Market. This is taking me some time along with the regular office work.

Although the next phase of this discussion would be a strategy plan to bring to light to the corporates about the findings.

Thanks to the posts I have already started the analysis of the HR positions in the market with respect to the compensation methods informed to me by Badloser.

Also I have understood and have been discussing on the 4 Varna analogy given by you with a few fellow HR colleagues and IT professionals in my contact.

It is just a matter of time that I could post my thanks to all of you with my analysis on some of the industry findings. Which will obviously prove that I am not a dubious identity but a fellow HR professional who has been struggling in the industry due to the TOP B SCHOOL air hyped by a few private institutions and a few industrial management folks

Anyways I will post that report soon after the new year.

Wishing you all Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

Regards,

Shruti
24th December 2008 From India, Madras
Dear Shruti,

If you are seriously work on this project, then everyone of us will help you. For good judgement and proper conclusion. I wish to offer you one measurement which will be more systematic and scientific tool for placing and analyzing jobs size and job level.

For detail salary survey take all jobs families in various classifications as follows:

All job families to slotted with equal job weightages to club them into one level of job and use experience ladder of every 5 year slabs as measurement scale of pricing.

JOB FAMILIES:
Administration- Administrative jobs (Secretarial, Clerical, office assistant, Business Assistant etc)
Professionals- Management- Middle and Senior
Specialist – Consulting Know-How (Legal, C.A, Architecture & Structural, IR, Technologist)
Engineering- Mechanical, Electrical, Chemical,
Research & Development- Doctor, Scientist, Chief Analyst,
IT-

1. Every Job you will find different salary depending on- Sector/ Industry/Region.
2. Place them in one bracket of experience scale of every five years and arrange them as salary range from minimum to maximum salary range depending on job level and size.
3. Arrange all salary range minimum to maximum salary on five years’ experience scale.
4. Define them as minimum- mid- maximum as range of salary for five year slab as market value of the job.
5. Refine the midpoint of the salary range of each job in similar 5 year slab experience club as indicator of market average.
6. Define highest salary in range as maximum experience and lowest as beginner in that experience slab.
7. Add 5% plus or minus for error of judgment to adjust your results to become more realistic will be a real salary scale for that nature and level of job in the market.

BADLU
24th December 2008 From Saudi Arabia
Therer is no end to frauds and cheating business....
Global economic meltdown and economic recession is example of the amount OF cheating and fraud being practise in the market...and prevelent in the society.
Example is Satyam Info..They are Banned by World Bank...cancelling their contract just because they cheated investors in Satyam Info.....
NOW EATING PUBLIC MONEY AND CHEATING PRACTICES BECOME NAME IF THE GAME CALLED BUSINESS...........
B- SCHOOLS AND PREMIER INSTITUTES ARE SAME PROPOGANDA BUSINESS....
BADLU
27th December 2008 From Saudi Arabia
I appreciate the views and facts produced here by not only very experience
but expert in the subjectmatter. I strongly support the views and observations by Mr.Badlooser, Mr.Rahsid, Mr.Raj and Mr.Abraham.

There is no technology or science or any management principle involved in selection of candidates in Indian Industries or Corporates for that matter. Most of the candidates were selected and salaries negotiated on the face value rather than job content or its market value.
Moreover these newly recruits takes atleast 6 to 8 months to start taking responsibilities, sharing burdon of decision making and taking workload or truly contributing with appropriate initiatives. Initially 6 months we know people take to know the organization, desired performance level, accountability and directions of the management....

This is area of HR in Indian industries has biggest vaccume and reallly there is nothing been done to regulate indian job market practice. No base has been established on some scientific principles where we can define industry based standard compensation structure or market benchmark...its very much diversed and totally unmatch with same jobs in same industry with same level and nature of work has different pricing in isolation just at the mercy of Management whims and fancies all job prices are done.

At least, this kind of debate will generate new scope for improving good uniform and scientific approach to adopt good practice at par with global standard to avoid loss of best talent in the market just due to some prejudice mind to some faveratism and nepotism culture as this B school or premier institutes are spreading myths rather than removing bad practises in the field of management. Its like untouchability and aparthied kind of norms to cluster some education institutes for discrimination is against 21st century global standard.

Be careful...

Captain Cook
29th December 2008 From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
Dear all,
I am sincerely thankfull to all the members who have dared to expose the real truth behind this so called high profile B schools. People in our country are used to evaluate things on the basis of how it looks rather then what it has actually. I have come accross so many Top B school graduates who have failed miserably to achieve their career goals on the contrary many shining stars in the corporate world who are not from such bogus intitutes. The best example we all can give is the legend Mr Dhirubhai Ambani. We can't say they dont learn anything out of the Top B schools but just because of having the label of it they can't be considered the best among others.
Regards,
Mehul
30th December 2008 From India
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