cpk_nih Started The Discussion:
Please consider this case. A central government employee got promoted to higher post (with change to higher pay band) during July 2009. His pay was fixed according to the Sixth Pay Commission. Now, after 4 years, he is informed during July 2013 by his office that his pay was erroneously fixed higher in July 2009 and his revised (lower) pays re-fixed on July each year (after 2009) are communicated to him. Now, my questions are -

(a) Due to excess money paid to the employee during last 4 years, recovery has to be made by the office. On what basis/rates, the office can recover monthly/quarterly/partially/fully amounts from the employee?

(b) In this particular case, there is no fault on the part of employee. The moral question is why he should feel the agony of recovery (besides reduction in pay) from his monthly salaries?

Any ideas/thoughts on the above shall be helpful to understand the Government procedure and guidelines in this regard.
Posted 8th July 2013 From India, Dehra Dun
And what about higher income tax paid during last 4 years due to higher fixation of pay? How that can be adjusted during the period/years of recovery?
Posted 8th July 2013 From India, Dehra Dun
Pls post in gconnect.in i am a central govt employee and gconnect.in is for discussion by cg emp.
During audit the mistake must have been identified. Just marking this post i will post a detailed reply soon
Posted 9th July 2013 From India, Madras
Dear Ravi,

This looks like a case where a patient is told by the Doctors at a Govt. Hospital - please come to my private clinic if you want treatment!

I find it sad that you chose someone's query on CiteHR to be the platform for marketing another forum. I am sure the same is against the rules here.

Moderators - please review and act.
Posted 10th July 2013 From India, Mumbai
Dear Member

The employer can deduct/adjust erroneous over payment.

Payment of wages Act 1936 s(7)2)(f) also provides for the same as under:

[(f) deductions for recovery of advances of whatever nature (including advances for travelling allowance or conveyance allowance), and the interest due in respect thereof, or for adjustment of over-payments of wages;]

However the mode of deduction should not be that the employee suffers- his take home reduces drastically. It has to be in small installment and of course any other tax liability on (Like IT) account of over payment should be borne by the employer.

Regards

Shailesh Parikh
Vadodara, Gujarat
99 98 97 10 65
Posted 10th July 2013 From India, Mumbai
Dear Cpk
As a retired State servant, I agree with the view of Ravi.On promotion, normally a G.S is granted a notional increment in his lower scale and the new basic is fixed at corresponding stage in the higher scale ensuring a minimum percentage of hike. At the time of promotion, sometimes if an increment is due, people are permitted to opt to avail that and get the pay fixed after some time.Therefore, it is possible that his pay should have been fixed wrongly by mistaken interpretation of fixation rules.However such mistakes would be detected in the audit later. Rectification is none other than revised fixation and recovery of excess payment.Hence, my answers to your queries are:
(a) Mere lapse of time is not an excuse for recovery of excess payment due to wrong pay-fixation in Govt. service.There were incidents that when pension proposals were processed by the A.G's Office prior to the retirement of some Govt. servants, such defects were noticed and due to want of time for recovery, individuals were asked to remit the entire excess payment in lump-sum before the dates of their retirement.So, the period of recovery of excess payment is depending upon the length of service of the individual.
(b) Since it is a financial irregularity resulting in more periodical payments to the individual than what he is entitled to, revised fixation as per rules and recovery of the excess payment are logical accounting principles of rectification and as such the question of morality has no room.I am not inclined to appreciate the fact that the individual is agonised for what he is to repay is what is not due to him.It is imperative that every govt. servant should be aware of the service rules and that's why barring the basic service, all govt servants whether they belong to class I or other lower services, are mandated to pass the Department Tests during their period of probation itself.
Posted 10th July 2013 From India, Salem
Dear Mr. Umakanthan,

I fully agree with your kind response to my query. However, just to elaborate the case, the following may also be noted -

(1) Basic pay of the employee was fixed by his office on promotion to higher post and corresponding Office Order was released during August 2009.

(2) Subsequently, another Office Order was relased in November 2009 confirming the basic pay (fixed earlier by his office) by audit party of the concerned Ministry.

(3) Now, after more than 3 years, another audit party of the same Ministry observes discrepancy in fixation of pay (Office Order in July 2013). Is it not surprising that there are two different opinions by audit party of the same Ministry at two different times spanned by more than 3 years?

(4) One can really wonder whether earlier fixation (August 2009 and November 2009) was correct or the current one (Office Order in July 2013) is correct?

Kind Regards.
Posted 10th July 2013 From India, Dehra Dun
Dear Cpk,
First, I admit that the Central Govt. Employees Service Rules are not familiar to me. However, I made an attempt based on my presumption that as per Art. 309 of the Constitution the service rules of employees of Central and States are similar and my answers are based upon the Tamilnadu Govt Servants Fundamental Rules only. As you've pointed out,interpretations may differ from person to person.Here in the State, bills are presented to the Treasury for payment.The Treasury will verify the bills as to their admissibility in terms of their maintainability and arithmatical accuracy.Apart from this there would be annual office inspections by superiors and audit by A.G's office. Thus, a system of multiple checks and balances is there .Even then, cases like you have mentioned happen inadvertently at times. Owing to the ubiquitous red-tapesm, percolation of information about the latest amendments and authoritative clarifications down the level is always belated.So there are conflicting and contradictory interpretations always.Better consult a person well-versed in Central Govt.Establishment matters.
Posted 10th July 2013 From India, Salem
the question is not clear? less more what make ur question clear
Posted 10th July 2013 From India, Hyderabad
1. The excess payment done erroneously may be covered not more than the monthly difference of the previous and current fixations from the monthly salaries, keeping in view the ceiling of total deductions under Payment of Wages Act 1936.

2. The Income Tax paid by the employee concerned on the excess payment, if any, should be borne by the Section/Signatories responsible for making
excess payment to settle the issue amicably.



R K Singh
Posted 10th July 2013 From India, Delhi
Dear CPK,
Sorry for the delayed reply.
We had also wrongly calculated the HR & TA of two employees right from their joining date, but this error was identified within 6-7 months of joining and was recovered subsequently.

Now the following procedures needs to be followed or should have been followed:

First of all fixation of pay is verified by the senior staff of the Department while fixing and then only OOs are issued.
When the first audit party confirmed the pay fixation it is added advantage to your department.
When the second audit party raised objection first they would raise an informal objection which has to be clarified by the department, hence in this case it is the department staff who have to justify the pay fixation and mention that it is as per the rules only, since govt rules are vague it differs from person to person, hence the department staff should have tried justifying the second audit party regarding the pay fixation and get the audit query solved. Because finding such grave mistake also reflects on the department working. The work of department accts & admin staff is not to just act on the audit discrepancy and recover the amount without verifying whether the pay fixation was correct or not. Hence please get this clarified. Also whether this recovery is happening only in your case or in case of other staffs also?

Since I am a very newly joined staff i am not aware of pay fixation also there are very few a meagre amount of central government employees in this forum, thats why i suggested . If you post your full query details like date of joining, initial pay and pay fixation done by your dept and pay fixation as suggested by auditor the members there would be able to point out as to who is correct.

Also apart from CG employees other employees working in Pvt cos which constitute majority of citehr members, are not aware of pay fixation rules, and CCS , GFR, GAR rules, hence they may not be able to understand the problem. As posted by Meena that what less more means the member is not aware of the issue, hence to get a clear cut solution i had suggested CPK the website.

This is was misunderstood by Executor who thought i am promoting some website.


You may also refer this
http://download.ssapunjab.org/sub/in...19_10_2012.pdf

http://himachal.nic.in <link fixed>

which deals with recovery of excess paid amount from employee.

So you are not the only employee for whom excess payment is done and recovered. But in your case first it needs to be proved whether the payment or pay fixation is really erroneous or correct.If your department staff /accts /admin can justify and prove to auditor that the pay fixation is correct then there wont be any recovery at all.

Regards,

Ravi
Posted 10th July 2013 From India, Madras
Anonymous 
Hi All,
Please advise on a case where in the details of excess payment/allowances/reimbursements were realized during the processing of Full and Final of the employee. The amount of recovery is more than twice the total amount of the FnF amount.
1.What should be the process to recover the amount. Also
Posted 12th July 2013 From India
Please give the following details

Pay Band of the employee just before promotion
Basic Pay he was drawing in the above Pay band
Grade Pay


Pay Band of the employee after promotion
Basic Pay initially fixed and approved by the first audit party
Grade Pay
Month in which Promotion was given


Basic Pay refixed by the Second audit party

Reason given for refixing the Basic pay by the second audit party
Posted 12th July 2013 From India, Madras
Pay Band of the employee just before promotion: 15600-39100

Basic Pay he was drawing in the above Pay band: 15000

Grade Pay: 7600

Pay Band of the employee after promotion - 37400-67000

Basic Pay initially fixed and approved by the first audit party - 39690 (as per table on page 30 of Office Memorandum F.No.1/1/2008-IC dated 30th August, 2008 from Joint Secretary to the Government of India, Ministry of Finance)

Grade Pay: 8900

Month in which Promotion was given: July 2009 (w.e.f. 2.7.2009)

Basic Pay refixed by the Second audit party: 37400 (on 2.7.2009)

Reason given for refixing the Basic pay by the second audit party: not known
Posted 12th July 2013 From India, Dehra Dun
There remained an error in earlier message (15000 was pre-revised basic pay) Basic Pay he was drawing in the above Pay band: 27900
Posted 12th July 2013 From India, Dehra Dun
A little more information is required.
What was his pre-revised Pay scale 16400-450-20000 or 12000-375-1800 ?
This clarification is sought since Page No 30 of the said notification is for the
Pay scale 16400-450-20000.
Posted 12th July 2013 From India, Madras
As per the information provided the fixation of Pay is as under.

Basic pay in the PB 15600-39000 on 2.7.2009 27900
Grade Pay 7600

Add 3% of Basic + GP i.e. 35500 *3% = 1070

Basic Pay after addition of 3% 27900+1070 28970

Add GP of the Promoted PB 37400-67000
i.e. 8900 to 28970 37870

Since 37870 is higher than 37400 the pay is fixed at 37870 w.e.f. 2.7. 2009
Next increment on 1.7.2010

Kindly intimate any discrepancy is noticed. This is based on the example given
Swamy’s Handbook.

The new audit team may have added 27900+7600 (present GP) = 36570, hence fixed at
37400 in the PB of 37400-67000. Please check up the audit observations for
Clearning the doubt.
Posted 12th July 2013 From India, Madras
Thanks Mr. Kutty for your kind response. Pre-revised Pay Scales: 12000-375-1800 (on 1.7.2009) and 16400-450-20000 (from 2.7.2009)
Posted 12th July 2013 From India, Dehra Dun
Thank you CPK. Regarding the refixing, let me check up with the Rules once again. What I had mentioned is promotion given in he same pay band with increase in grade pay. Let me check up whether existing grade pay or grade of promoted post to be added to the basic for arriving at new Basic Pay. If existing grade pay is to be added, the pay fixed by the Second audit team is correct. ( I am not in admn/estt for last 3 years and hence I have to refer to Swamy's Handbook)

If he was in 12000-375-18000, he basic pay as on 1.7.2009 may be around 15000 not 16400. Hence fixing at 16400 scale as per Page No. 30, done initially is not correct.
Posted 12th July 2013 From India, Madras
If you have Swamy's handbook, please refer to the examples given in that. Please check up with examples what is the position, in case of Promotion to higher Pay Band. Which Grade is to be added to existing pay or higher grade pay.

The excess salary paid is to be recovered since the fixation was not done correctly.
Posted 12th July 2013 From India, Madras
Please refer to Page No 241 (Illustration No 3) of Swamy’s Handbook 2013. It is similar to the calculations done by me. In case you need any further clarification pl come back.
Posted 13th July 2013 From India, Madras
Thanks Mr. Kutty - for your kind input and clarifying the things.
Posted 16th July 2013 From India, Dehra Dun
Are you now sure that the pay fixation originally done was not correct as per the example given in page No 243 as referred above ? Pl also share what action you have taken to recover the excess pay made.
Posted 17th July 2013 From India, Madras
I think that due to the agony of recovery of excess amount of salary received by the employee by way of wrong fixation of salary, no response is coming from the member to find out solution for other issues raised by the member. I am surprised that the Officer who is in the Pay Band of 37400-67000 is not aware of his wrong pay fixation.
Posted 19th July 2013 From India, Madras
The matter is under review by the Finance Section of the Institute.
Posted 20th July 2013 From India, Dehra Dun
I would like to know whether the fixation suggested by me is correct or not. I was also head of an institution, where sixth pay was implemented and there was no error in fixing the pay of any employee. Hence I request the feed back.
Posted 20th July 2013 From India, Madras
Thank you for the feed back. Thank you for enabling me to update the pay fixation issues.
Posted 20th July 2013 From India, Madras
kindly dont send the message to me as i cant give any answer to this question which is not understood by me
Posted 20th July 2013 From India, Hyderabad
No one sending the messages to you. The updates are coming to you because you may have subscribed to the updates of this thread while posting your reply on 10th July 2013. If you dont want updates, please unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe, please go to Home page, click on your profile photo. In the user control panel, under setting and option, click edit option. Choose "No email notification" under the default subscription mode.

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Posted 20th July 2013 From India, Madras



 
 
 
 







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