I am a Sales Director w/ an office of 5 managers and 3 admin. assistants. My #2 manager---one of my very top employees asks for vacation time 2 weeks prior to wanting off---policy is 30 days.
There are already people off that week in the office and if allowed, this person to get off, it will leave only 2 managers in the office when there are normally 6 people.
I suggested to that person to change their dates because you cannot allow for the lack of office coverage.
That employee says, "it doesn't matter what you say, I'm going"
She has been a great employee that goes above and beyond.
I've allowed her as much as a month of vacation at one time (because she's from out of the country and has little time to get back to her family) and paid her for it because of the amount of extra time she spends on the job.
However, everyone in the office is almost or just as good. Allowing her to get away with this will make the others think they can act the same way. It's just not fair!
Should she be terminated? This would be a huge hardship if she's gone.
There are already people off that week in the office and if allowed, this person to get off, it will leave only 2 managers in the office when there are normally 6 people.
I suggested to that person to change their dates because you cannot allow for the lack of office coverage.
That employee says, "it doesn't matter what you say, I'm going"
She has been a great employee that goes above and beyond.
I've allowed her as much as a month of vacation at one time (because she's from out of the country and has little time to get back to her family) and paid her for it because of the amount of extra time she spends on the job.
However, everyone in the office is almost or just as good. Allowing her to get away with this will make the others think they can act the same way. It's just not fair!
Should she be terminated? This would be a huge hardship if she's gone.
You don't mention one important factor...why is this employee requesting leave at such short notice when the policy is for 30 days?
There may be some pressing personal reason such as illness, relationship issues, burnout etc. In which case I think a bit of flexibility is appropriate.
However, if the employee is making this demand for a less pressing reason, or simply because she thinks she can, you have got problems. It doesn't matter how indispensable you think she is, the moment an employee starts to behave as if thy are indispensable, you have a storehouse of trouble ahead. In this case I would recommend applying a sanction. It may be that you regard her leave as leave without pay, and "dock" her pay accordingly. Or you may decide that if she takes the leave without permission, then she is absent without leave and risking termination of employment.
You might think she is good value and indispensable, but if her attitude is one of blackmail, you might as well cut your losses now. How you respond will be watched by others, who will learn from what happens. What do you want them to learn?
Do you have the authority to apply sanctions? Should you seek the support of your executive/management? I suggest you get some advice and support so you are not "hung out to dry" over this issue.
LS
Progress Enterprise
<link outdated-removed>
From Australia, Ballarat
12There may be some pressing personal reason such as illness, relationship issues, burnout etc. In which case I think a bit of flexibility is appropriate.
However, if the employee is making this demand for a less pressing reason, or simply because she thinks she can, you have got problems. It doesn't matter how indispensable you think she is, the moment an employee starts to behave as if thy are indispensable, you have a storehouse of trouble ahead. In this case I would recommend applying a sanction. It may be that you regard her leave as leave without pay, and "dock" her pay accordingly. Or you may decide that if she takes the leave without permission, then she is absent without leave and risking termination of employment.
You might think she is good value and indispensable, but if her attitude is one of blackmail, you might as well cut your losses now. How you respond will be watched by others, who will learn from what happens. What do you want them to learn?
Do you have the authority to apply sanctions? Should you seek the support of your executive/management? I suggest you get some advice and support so you are not "hung out to dry" over this issue.
LS
Progress Enterprise
<link outdated-removed>
From Australia, Ballarat
She is requesting leave to meet her family in New York for vacation. Her family does live in another country but I have been extremely lenient in the past---over Christmas, I let her off for a month to be with them and I paid her. I also let her got see them another time for 3 weeks and paid her---and she does not qualify for that much vacation. But, since she worked a ton of weekends and evenings, I felt it was justified.
Her family was originally going to come to see her but for personal reasons, she did not want them in town. There is mainly one day that it is going to be really bad for her to be gone and I told her to try and work around that day and we could make it work. She said she couldn't.
Yes, I definitely have the authority to apply sanctions. My plan is to decline the vacation request, dock her pay and give her a written warning for insubordination. My superiors will support my decisions but also see her as a valuable employee. They are disappointed but don't want to lose her.
My big concern is the wedge that this will put between us in our working relationship and, probably more, how it affects my other employees. I don't want them to think they can walk all over me and get by with the same attitude. I just wish there was some creative solution!
Thanks for the input and any more ideas!!!
Her family was originally going to come to see her but for personal reasons, she did not want them in town. There is mainly one day that it is going to be really bad for her to be gone and I told her to try and work around that day and we could make it work. She said she couldn't.
Yes, I definitely have the authority to apply sanctions. My plan is to decline the vacation request, dock her pay and give her a written warning for insubordination. My superiors will support my decisions but also see her as a valuable employee. They are disappointed but don't want to lose her.
My big concern is the wedge that this will put between us in our working relationship and, probably more, how it affects my other employees. I don't want them to think they can walk all over me and get by with the same attitude. I just wish there was some creative solution!
Thanks for the input and any more ideas!!!
A Classic case Study for Balancing personal life and professional life from employee perspective and Maintaining discipline yet not loosing Trust of a valuable employee.
The two aspects of this case are such that need to be balanced both by the employee concerned and the company.
One the employee needs to understand her importance in the organization and the responsibility to set examples for following company policy. A one to one interaction was the only possible way to make her understand, but the same did not work.
Two the management too needs to understand the personal commitments of the hardworking, committed and dedicated employee towards her family, as many people and their plans get involved in this situation.
The only problem in this situation seems " What Message will it give to others" .
It can give a wrong message if not spread properly and can also leave a strong positive note for the "caring" attitude the company has for it's dedicated performers when they need it the most. All depends on how the manager #2 feels for the company.
Policies are meant as guidelines for "business processes" but business comes first and even before that come people and their judgements of right and wrong.
The two aspects of this case are such that need to be balanced both by the employee concerned and the company.
One the employee needs to understand her importance in the organization and the responsibility to set examples for following company policy. A one to one interaction was the only possible way to make her understand, but the same did not work.
Two the management too needs to understand the personal commitments of the hardworking, committed and dedicated employee towards her family, as many people and their plans get involved in this situation.
The only problem in this situation seems " What Message will it give to others" .
It can give a wrong message if not spread properly and can also leave a strong positive note for the "caring" attitude the company has for it's dedicated performers when they need it the most. All depends on how the manager #2 feels for the company.
Policies are meant as guidelines for "business processes" but business comes first and even before that come people and their judgements of right and wrong.
Hi all,
This is an interest subject.
I am just curious? how was her attitude prior to this sudden disregard for office policy? Have you ever had such problems with her before? Is this the first time?
If your responds is that she has always been a prime example, then there is more than meets the eye. She may be under certain duress that we do not know about?
Lets fit in this employee shoes for a moment, assuming that she is clear about her place as an employee. Say we are faced with a domestic problem that is giving you a lot of stress and pressure. And it is becoming distracting. You desprately need to take this time off. You approach your superior concerning your leave. You are already frustrated and the rejection may be the last straw that broke the camels back. And you just said awful things that just came out the wrong way. You may also be feeling dissapointed with your boss because you think you deserve some consideration with all the contributions and profit that you made for the company.
Yes, the other employees will see how this case is handled. They may also be observing this case from a viewpoint that is, how valuable management considers their staff. Or are they just horses working the fields, slogging for the farmer and when too old to work, they are sent to the slaughter house. A thought, what if the other employees empathised with her situation? Management could turn out to be the Devils Advocate.
Question agian. Have you tried discussing with this employee, that the policy and rules are such and the unfairness towards other employees if hers was approved? The implication of the situation that she has just placed the management? Discussing in confidence on the real reason for the leave, so that an alternative may be reached?
Just a little sharing and hope it gives you some ideas.
Regards
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
This is an interest subject.
I am just curious? how was her attitude prior to this sudden disregard for office policy? Have you ever had such problems with her before? Is this the first time?
If your responds is that she has always been a prime example, then there is more than meets the eye. She may be under certain duress that we do not know about?
Lets fit in this employee shoes for a moment, assuming that she is clear about her place as an employee. Say we are faced with a domestic problem that is giving you a lot of stress and pressure. And it is becoming distracting. You desprately need to take this time off. You approach your superior concerning your leave. You are already frustrated and the rejection may be the last straw that broke the camels back. And you just said awful things that just came out the wrong way. You may also be feeling dissapointed with your boss because you think you deserve some consideration with all the contributions and profit that you made for the company.
Yes, the other employees will see how this case is handled. They may also be observing this case from a viewpoint that is, how valuable management considers their staff. Or are they just horses working the fields, slogging for the farmer and when too old to work, they are sent to the slaughter house. A thought, what if the other employees empathised with her situation? Management could turn out to be the Devils Advocate.
Question agian. Have you tried discussing with this employee, that the policy and rules are such and the unfairness towards other employees if hers was approved? The implication of the situation that she has just placed the management? Discussing in confidence on the real reason for the leave, so that an alternative may be reached?
Just a little sharing and hope it gives you some ideas.
Regards
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
Dear All,
I think whether an employee is a performer or otherwise, there should not be any dilution in your leave policy as far this case is concerned.You can reward a performing employee in so many ways.But dilution of policies can definitely ruin the working scenario.
Arun Natarajan
I think whether an employee is a performer or otherwise, there should not be any dilution in your leave policy as far this case is concerned.You can reward a performing employee in so many ways.But dilution of policies can definitely ruin the working scenario.
Arun Natarajan
There are exceptional cases where one could bend the rules. However, in this scenario the employee has been given a lot of liberation in the past as I gather from your second email. Also therein you had mentioned the employee is a good worker and does put in extra hours and including weekends to do the work.
Does the office have this culture of working late and coming to office over the weekends. There seems to be no balance between personal life and work life. When such situations are allowed where employees are go beyond their expected work routines. There will be a point of time when the employee demands the same measure from the company when they need it.
All employees are generally perceived as good. Isnt that the reason why we hired them. Now we find good employees acting in a manner we cant accept.
My suggestion is that let this employee go on leave, but with your approval and after she returns make the ground rules clear.
As much avoid encouraging people to work late and on off days.
Vijay Michael
From India, Madras
Does the office have this culture of working late and coming to office over the weekends. There seems to be no balance between personal life and work life. When such situations are allowed where employees are go beyond their expected work routines. There will be a point of time when the employee demands the same measure from the company when they need it.
All employees are generally perceived as good. Isnt that the reason why we hired them. Now we find good employees acting in a manner we cant accept.
My suggestion is that let this employee go on leave, but with your approval and after she returns make the ground rules clear.
As much avoid encouraging people to work late and on off days.
Vijay Michael
From India, Madras
There is an old saying in many cultures, that translates to something like:
"Don't let the rotten apple spoil the barrel."
This employee knows the policy and has had leniency shown in the past. She is wanting leave to meet family but refuses to have the family come to her. You have good operational reason to decline her request.
If you let her have leave you send a message to all: (1) the policy on leave can be ignored and insubordination and disrespect are tolerated; (2) if you are a high performer you can do anything you want; (3) lower performing workers can disrespect managers and see what else they can get away with.
She may be a high performer now, but will she be once she knows that you know that she doesn't respect you or the company, and that you and the company will do nothing about it?
My suggestion is to take a tough line for the sake of the future of the team:
1. Refuse the leave, and explain why.
2. Warn her that her attitude over this is not what is expected from a professional person, and that if she goes anyway she will be disobeying a reasonable order and be liable to dismissal (or whatever the sanction is in your organisation).
3. Put this in writing to her and also on her file.
4. Wait to see what happens.
I have seen so many teams self-destruct because management would not stand firm over policy and rules when there was no grounds for compassion.
Good luck,
Martin
From United Kingdom,
"Don't let the rotten apple spoil the barrel."
This employee knows the policy and has had leniency shown in the past. She is wanting leave to meet family but refuses to have the family come to her. You have good operational reason to decline her request.
If you let her have leave you send a message to all: (1) the policy on leave can be ignored and insubordination and disrespect are tolerated; (2) if you are a high performer you can do anything you want; (3) lower performing workers can disrespect managers and see what else they can get away with.
She may be a high performer now, but will she be once she knows that you know that she doesn't respect you or the company, and that you and the company will do nothing about it?
My suggestion is to take a tough line for the sake of the future of the team:
1. Refuse the leave, and explain why.
2. Warn her that her attitude over this is not what is expected from a professional person, and that if she goes anyway she will be disobeying a reasonable order and be liable to dismissal (or whatever the sanction is in your organisation).
3. Put this in writing to her and also on her file.
4. Wait to see what happens.
I have seen so many teams self-destruct because management would not stand firm over policy and rules when there was no grounds for compassion.
Good luck,
Martin
From United Kingdom,
Dear martin,
Life is very unpredictable, people are unpredictable. We spent what 12-15 hours a day in our organisation? That is definately much more time spent even with our family. Should we then also consider ourselve part of the organisation family? In a family, we learn to grow right? make mistakes, learn from each other and at times, maybe even get the extra cookie from our father, when mom said no. Isnt it the same like working in an organisation?
Having rules and regulation is good, but I am of the opinion that it has too be balanced with compassion and understanding. Thats why I ask what was her background like. In fact just to re-quote
A little sharing of opinions.
:wink:
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
Life is very unpredictable, people are unpredictable. We spent what 12-15 hours a day in our organisation? That is definately much more time spent even with our family. Should we then also consider ourselve part of the organisation family? In a family, we learn to grow right? make mistakes, learn from each other and at times, maybe even get the extra cookie from our father, when mom said no. Isnt it the same like working in an organisation?
Having rules and regulation is good, but I am of the opinion that it has too be balanced with compassion and understanding. Thats why I ask what was her background like. In fact just to re-quote
A little sharing of opinions.
:wink:
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
I agree with Noel's point. Have we analysed the person's background, reasons for such behaviour, where is she now in her life etc?
Without knowing these, is it right to pass a judgement.
No doubt, discilpline is required to be maintained in any organisation. But remember those rules and regulations are made for the people, by the people and all are humans. Yes, it has to be looked at with compassion and understanding.
The other point which Noel has mentioned in his earlier post is also to be noticed. Are the empoyees just horses who have to be sent to slaughter house when utility is over? Or are they to be treated just like tissue paper? These are all 'ethiclal' questions which needs to be pndered upon.
Thanks
Bala
From India, Madras
Without knowing these, is it right to pass a judgement.
No doubt, discilpline is required to be maintained in any organisation. But remember those rules and regulations are made for the people, by the people and all are humans. Yes, it has to be looked at with compassion and understanding.
The other point which Noel has mentioned in his earlier post is also to be noticed. Are the empoyees just horses who have to be sent to slaughter house when utility is over? Or are they to be treated just like tissue paper? These are all 'ethiclal' questions which needs to be pndered upon.
Thanks
Bala
From India, Madras
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